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PAY2WIN: COD microtransactions keep getting worse - IW gives stat boosts to guns

A

Alienfan

Member
Blobbers said:
RNGeezus loot boxes are terrible.
I still don't understand why so many people defended the practice in those Overwatch threads from way back.
Click to expand...
Because cosmetic DLC doesn't affect the gameplay and in that case some of the money is put back into free maps and content for everyone
 
I

ironmang

Member
excaliburps said:
Think about this: if people who were disgusted by this just bought TF2 instead of IW, then yes.

It's like the chicken and the egg thing; get the game, hike the community up, and the rest will follow. Do nothing, and it'll accomplish nothing. ;)
Click to expand...

When I buy games I'm in it for the long run. Maybe I'll get TF3 if TF2 can keep a very active community for a couple years. Just tired of seeing games get hyped then everybody just goes their own way after a week of playing.
 
C

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Deadbeat said:
Alright, whos alt account is this?
Click to expand...

This is my main and only account. I didn't mean to imply that GAF is a hivemind, but I've seen this behavior persist through most all of the Infinite Warfare threads, and many other Call of Duty threads besides that. And I don't think that many people are completely free of some level of confirmation bias. It's widely accepted to dislike Call of Duty on the internet, even with the flimsiest of reasoning or understanding, and it's dismaying to see that culture permeating through NeoGAF as well.

I tend to do a lot more reading than I do posting, and that's just the impression that I get.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
Creaking said:
This is my main and only account. I didn't mean to imply that GAF is a hivemind, but I've seen this behavior persist through most all of the Infinite Warfare threads, and many other Call of Duty threads besides that. And I don't think that many people are completely free of some level of confirmation bias. It's widely accepted to dislike Call of Duty on the internet, even with the flimsiest of reasoning or understanding, and it's dismaying to see that culture permeating through NeoGAF as well.

I tend to do a lot more reading than I do posting, and that's just the impression that I get.
Click to expand...

Yeah because P2W mechanics in a full price game is totally nothing of concern and is just Gaf shitting on COD....
 
G

Geist-

Member
Well, definitely won't be buying then. I guess I'll keep an ear out to see if the campaign is any good, and RedBox it.

Titanfall 2 and Battlefield are more than enough for my multiplayer needs.
 
K

kuYuri

Member
Creaking said:
That's ignoring daily bonus salvage, mission team salvage (you get a considerable amount from leveling these up), and duplicate salvage from supply drops. What's more, we don't know the salvage gain rate in the full game. It was a common criticism in the beta, so maybe let's wait and see how it changes before selling this apocalyptic narrative?
Click to expand...

IW also recently released the changes going into the full game as a result of the beta. They've already adjusted the salvage economy some, along with other changes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinitewa...at_we_learned_from_the_call_of_duty_infinite/
 
clem84

clem84

Gold Member
OraleeWey said:
People will use real money to boost their stats. Can you really blame Activision?
Click to expand...

Business wise, we can't blame them. They still have a choice though. "We can make more money this way, but we'll turn our game into this big pay-to-win joke." I guess it was an easy decision for them.
 
C

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
freeofgreed said:
Yeah because P2W mechanics in a full price game is totally nothing of concern and is just Gaf shitting on COD....
Click to expand...

The GAF in this thread lacks understanding. They're only seeing through the lens the OP has presented, and the OP is only selling one angle on this thing.

It's not going to take 900 hours or whatever to unlock a single variant. The OP is ignoring several ways that the game gives you salvage. You can get salvage just for logging in once a day. You get salvage for ranking up mission teams. You get salvage through supply drops and duplicates. There may be other ways to get salvage that we haven't yet been shown. Some variants are also awarded simply by progressing through mission teams.

And the OP is based on the assumption that the salvage gain rates are going to be exactly the same in the full game as they were in the beta, despite numerous complaints during the beta period.

kuYuri said:
IW also recently released the changes going into the full game as a result of the beta. They've already adjusted the salvage economy some, along with other changes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinitewa...at_we_learned_from_the_call_of_duty_infinite/
Click to expand...

There, thank you.

• Increased salvage gain in mission teams.
• Changed currency value in supply drops.
• Increased drop rate of keys in round-based modes.
Click to expand...

So folks can stop saying "it's going to be even slower". The only things that were inflated for the beta were the daily bonuses, which granted stuff like 90 keys or 1500 salvage just for logging in.


I'm not saying that Activision gets a pass here, but we don't have enough information at the moment to really see how severe (if "severe" is even the right word to use) this is.
 
B

brokenbeans

Banned
Schlorgan said:
Not yet. If they don't sell as many Legacy Editions as they'd like to, it won't be long.
Click to expand...

So they cannibalise the franchise and give everyone the perfect excuse to never buy another 'new' cod?

Standalone ain't happening, if it doesn't sell this year they will do the same with Sledgehammers entry.
 
S

Steiner

Banned
freeofgreed said:
Yeah because P2W mechanics in a full price game is totally nothing of concern and is just Gaf shitting on COD....
Click to expand...

You guys... Anyone calling this P2W is going a little overboard.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes. Are they going to magically take people who suck, or even those who are decent, to the top of the scoreboards? Hell no. CoD is still a skill-based shooter, and no amount of weapon perks, however "OP," can make you a better player. This is not P2W, so let's cut that out.

Listen. I don't have IW pre-ordered, so I'm not just defending this game to justify my spending money. I did have a blast playing the multiplayer beta, though, and I have no problem with the gun perks and how they're unlocked. People are going to play the SHIT out of this game, and for serious players, it's nice to have a long-term goal. Something hard to unlock that takes time. That's why Ubisoft has started adding in useless little trinkets and aesthetic unlocks to Siege that cost obscene amounts of renown. The serious players have more currency than they freaking know what to do with, and Ubi didn't see that coming.

The perks are neat, and even the "game-breaking" stuff like instant reloads for head shot kills with an SMG... Well, what can I say? That's a badass perk. But it's not going to help you get headshots.

The great players are going to be the ones with the best guns, that's true. But that's not a bad thing. The guns aren't going to make anyone a better or lesser player. And after about a month, matchmaking will take care of balance. The high level players with suites of perks all synnergizing with each other are going to be playing a totally different ball game than the people at lower ranks, with lower win counts, using more basic weapons.

*BUT,* as Drift0r admitted in his video, even a basic gun with no upgrades is still deadly in the hands of an experienced player. Put me in a room full of noobs all using Epic-tier guns, and give me a basic-but-accurate assault rifle, and I'll clean up. If you don't like microtransactions that's fine, but this is a lot of howling at the moon, here. Advanced players will love tweaking their play styles and basing their strategies around these end-game guns, and it gives them something to spend currency on for a long time.

Also, after the initial unloading of bonus scrap and keys when you boot up the beta, I was able in those two weekends to get an epic and legendary gun variant through supply drops. Awesome weapons will be much more common than people are implying in this thread... Trust me, it's not going to take you a hundred hours to get an epic weapon variant. (though it might for the specific gun you want)

EDIT: Absolutely go buy Titanfall 2, regardless. Freaking great game.
 
S

Shadynasty

Member
Outrun said:
I don't want this future.

I don't care if you are fucking MS, Sony, Nintendo, or any 3rd party, including platinum/Valve/Blizzard.

If I am paying for a game, and you dare pull this shit, I am done with you.
Click to expand...

I agree with you in theory, but the truth we have no one to blame but ourselves. When DLC/Season Pass content was introduced and most of us jumped right in hook, line, and sinker.

For example I purchased Battlefront without the Season Pass. Eventually I gave in and bought it because I wanted the maps, hero's, and new weapons. So I forked out 49.99 for additional content on a game I already paid 59.99 for. 109.98 is the total cost of this game.

Truth is in my opinion the DLC I've played on that game thus far is not worth 49.99 and I'm a pretty big fan of Star Wars and Dice games. How many 49.99 season passes have you purchased and when it's all said and done you've felt you've gotten your money's worth? For me none. Dice and Bethesda come close, but I still feel I haven't gotten my money's worth.


A friend of mine just before the release of BF1 paid an extra 19.99 to play the game early. It's ridiculous!
 
K

Kalentan

Member
Steiner said:
You guys... Anyone calling this P2W is going a little overboard.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes. Are they going to magically take people who suck, or even those who are decent, to the top of the scoreboards? Hell no. CoD is still a skill-based shooter, and no amount of weapon perks, however "OP," can make you a better player. This is not P2W, so let's cut that out.

Listen. I don't have IW pre-ordered, so I'm not just defending this game to justify my spending money. I did have a blast playing the multiplayer beta, though, and I have no problem with the gun perks and how they're unlocked. People are going to play the SHIT out of this game, and for serious players, it's nice to have a long-term goal. Something hard to unlock that takes time. That's why Ubisoft has started adding in useless little trinkets and aesthetic unlocks to Siege that cost obscene amounts of renown. The serious players have more currency than they freaking know what to do with, and Ubi didn't see that coming.

The perks are neat, and even the "game-breaking" stuff like instant reloads for head shot kills with an SMG... Well, what can I say? That's a badass perk. But it's not going to help you get headshots.

The great players are going to be the ones with the best guns, that's true. But that's not a bad thing. The guns aren't going to make anyone a better or lesser player. And after about a month, matchmaking will take care of balance. The high level players with suites of perks all synnergizing with each other are going to be playing a totally different ball game than the people at lower ranks, with lower win counts, using more basic weapons.

*BUT,* as Drift0r admitted in his video, even a basic gun with no upgrades is still deadly in the hands of an experienced player. Put me in a room full of noobs all using Epic-tier guns, and give me a basic-but-accurate assault rifle, and I'll clean up. If you don't like microtransactions that's fine, but this is a lot of howling at the moon, here. Advanced players will love tweaking their play styles and basing their strategies around these end-game guns, and it gives them something to spend currency on for a long time.

Also, after the initial unloading of bonus scrap and keys when you boot up the beta, I was able in those two weekends to get an epic and legendary gun variant through supply drops. Awesome weapons will be much more common than people are implying in this thread... Trust me, it's not going to take you a hundred hours to get an epic weapon variant. (though it might for the specific gun you want)

EDIT: Absolutely go buy Titanfall 2, regardless. Freaking great game.
Click to expand...

Good post, will most likely be ignored tho.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Pay to win doesn't refer to an advantage that cannot be overcome with better skill. Put me in a room with noobs who have 3 times the health and I'll demolish them, that fact would not be relevant towards whether it's p2w or not.

I've played legit p2w shooters before and small advantages are real. And it's really bad. It looks really bad too, from the outside.
 
D

Dubz

Member
Steiner said:
You guys... Anyone calling this P2W is going a little overboard.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes. Are they going to magically take people who suck, or even those who are decent, to the top of the scoreboards? Hell no. CoD is still a skill-based shooter, and no amount of weapon perks, however "OP," can make you a better player. This is not P2W, so let's cut that out.

Listen. I don't have IW pre-ordered, so I'm not just defending this game to justify my spending money. I did have a blast playing the multiplayer beta, though, and I have no problem with the gun perks and how they're unlocked. People are going to play the SHIT out of this game, and for serious players, it's nice to have a long-term goal. Something hard to unlock that takes time. That's why Ubisoft has started adding in useless little trinkets and aesthetic unlocks to Siege that cost obscene amounts of renown. The serious players have more currency than they freaking know what to do with, and Ubi didn't see that coming.

The perks are neat, and even the "game-breaking" stuff like instant reloads for head shot kills with an SMG... Well, what can I say? That's a badass perk. But it's not going to help you get headshots.

The great players are going to be the ones with the best guns, that's true. But that's not a bad thing. The guns aren't going to make anyone a better or lesser player. And after about a month, matchmaking will take care of balance. The high level players with suites of perks all synnergizing with each other are going to be playing a totally different ball game than the people at lower ranks, with lower win counts, using more basic weapons.

*BUT,* as Drift0r admitted in his video, even a basic gun with no upgrades is still deadly in the hands of an experienced player. Put me in a room full of noobs all using Epic-tier guns, and give me a basic-but-accurate assault rifle, and I'll clean up. If you don't like microtransactions that's fine, but this is a lot of howling at the moon, here. Advanced players will love tweaking their play styles and basing their strategies around these end-game guns, and it gives them something to spend currency on for a long time.

Also, after the initial unloading of bonus scrap and keys when you boot up the beta, I was able in those two weekends to get an epic and legendary gun variant through supply drops. Awesome weapons will be much more common than people are implying in this thread... Trust me, it's not going to take you a hundred hours to get an epic weapon variant. (though it might for the specific gun you want)

EDIT: Absolutely go buy Titanfall 2, regardless. Freaking great game.
Click to expand...

Any stat boost, no matter how minor, effects game balance....period.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
The funny part is how he claims advanced players will like it. No, sorry, they won't. Nothing about this system scream - must be put behind a paywall. They would like the system if it didn't have to be heavily grinded for - maybe. Advanced players typically hate these sort of power tools being sold or locked behind a large grind. I can't think of a single person who would like this system.
 
T

texhnolyze

Banned
Kalentan said:
Good post, will most likely be ignored tho.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. This very line from that post actually describes what P2W is.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes.
Click to expand...
P2W is not all about giving sucky players a boost so they can be a pro in an instant. Imagine if there are 4 good players in a room, they have comparable skills. And give only one of them these P2W stuff, and we'll see the result. If the good players want to stay competitive, they'll have to purchase these microtransactions. That's the very definition of P2W.
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
Shotgun Kiss said:
If I kicked somebody in the balls over and over, I don't think giving them a band-aid after every fourth or fifth kick is going to do much in making them more receptive of the experience.
Click to expand...

I mean if they're only playing to get lootboxes then yeah I guess they have a bit of a dilemma.
 
D

Darryl M R

Member
Steiner said:
You guys... Anyone calling this P2W is going a little overboard.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes. Are they going to magically take people who suck, or even those who are decent, to the top of the scoreboards? Hell no. CoD is still a skill-based shooter, and no amount of weapon perks, however "OP," can make you a better player. This is not P2W, so let's cut that out.

Listen. I don't have IW pre-ordered, so I'm not just defending this game to justify my spending money. I did have a blast playing the multiplayer beta, though, and I have no problem with the gun perks and how they're unlocked. People are going to play the SHIT out of this game, and for serious players, it's nice to have a long-term goal. Something hard to unlock that takes time. That's why Ubisoft has started adding in useless little trinkets and aesthetic unlocks to Siege that cost obscene amounts of renown. The serious players have more currency than they freaking know what to do with, and Ubi didn't see that coming.

The perks are neat, and even the "game-breaking" stuff like instant reloads for head shot kills with an SMG... Well, what can I say? That's a badass perk. But it's not going to help you get headshots.

The great players are going to be the ones with the best guns, that's true. But that's not a bad thing. The guns aren't going to make anyone a better or lesser player. And after about a month, matchmaking will take care of balance. The high level players with suites of perks all synnergizing with each other are going to be playing a totally different ball game than the people at lower ranks, with lower win counts, using more basic weapons.

*BUT,* as Drift0r admitted in his video, even a basic gun with no upgrades is still deadly in the hands of an experienced player. Put me in a room full of noobs all using Epic-tier guns, and give me a basic-but-accurate assault rifle, and I'll clean up. If you don't like microtransactions that's fine, but this is a lot of howling at the moon, here. Advanced players will love tweaking their play styles and basing their strategies around these end-game guns, and it gives them something to spend currency on for a long time.

Also, after the initial unloading of bonus scrap and keys when you boot up the beta, I was able in those two weekends to get an epic and legendary gun variant through supply drops. Awesome weapons will be much more common than people are implying in this thread... Trust me, it's not going to take you a hundred hours to get an epic weapon variant. (though it might for the specific gun you want)

EDIT: Absolutely go buy Titanfall 2, regardless. Freaking great game.
Click to expand...
Isn't P2W a scenario where a player can pay with real money to gain an advantage or a equally skilled player

But because TTK is so low the advantage is barely noticeable. But there is still an advantage.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Kim dotcom gunna be #1 again

edit: oh are we shilling Titanfall in this thread?

Know that CoD4 Campaign? Yeah, the guys that made that made something else.
 
M

Mechanized

Member
zeelman said:
You honestly expected IW to scrap a game months before release because a vocal minority doesn't like it? This isn't like Titanfall 2's alpha where Respawn could make minor tweaks to fix the issues from the alpha. You are expecting IW to make fundamental changes to a game mere months before release. That's not going to happen. There are definitely sections of the maps in the beta that don't need the BO3 movement system, but there's sections that do.

COD already has a F2P version, COD Online. I don't understand why Activision won't release it outside of China. It's packed with content.
Click to expand...

Nope never said that. This has been a growing sentiment for a while now, that I don't even agree with. People didnt just get sick of future warfare when IW was revealed. That's silly. To also say this is a vocal minority is way too dismissive of valid complaints.

I never mentioned CoD Online because its bad and not released in the west so its irrelevant. They will make a real f2p game.
 
joecanada

joecanada

Member
Steiner said:
You guys... Anyone calling this P2W is going a little overboard.
Are these perks going to enhance and empower those who are already good at the game? Yes. Are they going to magically take people who suck, or even those who are decent, to the top of the scoreboards? Hell no. CoD is still a skill-based shooter, and no amount of weapon perks, however "OP," can make you a better player. This is not P2W, so let's cut that out.

Listen. I don't have IW pre-ordered, so I'm not just defending this game to justify my spending money. I did have a blast playing the multiplayer beta, though, and I have no problem with the gun perks and how they're unlocked. People are going to play the SHIT out of this game, and for serious players, it's nice to have a long-term goal. Something hard to unlock that takes time. That's why Ubisoft has started adding in useless little trinkets and aesthetic unlocks to Siege that cost obscene amounts of renown. The serious players have more currency than they freaking know what to do with, and Ubi didn't see that coming.

The perks are neat, and even the "game-breaking" stuff like instant reloads for head shot kills with an SMG... Well, what can I say? That's a badass perk. But it's not going to help you get headshots.

The great players are going to be the ones with the best guns, that's true. But that's not a bad thing. The guns aren't going to make anyone a better or lesser player. And after about a month, matchmaking will take care of balance. The high level players with suites of perks all synnergizing with each other are going to be playing a totally different ball game than the people at lower ranks, with lower win counts, using more basic weapons.

*BUT,* as Drift0r admitted in his video, even a basic gun with no upgrades is still deadly in the hands of an experienced player. Put me in a room full of noobs all using Epic-tier guns, and give me a basic-but-accurate assault rifle, and I'll clean up. If you don't like microtransactions that's fine, but this is a lot of howling at the moon, here. Advanced players will love tweaking their play styles and basing their strategies around these end-game guns, and it gives them something to spend currency on for a long time.

Also, after the initial unloading of bonus scrap and keys when you boot up the beta, I was able in those two weekends to get an epic and legendary gun variant through supply drops. Awesome weapons will be much more common than people are implying in this thread... Trust me, it's not going to take you a hundred hours to get an epic weapon variant. (though it might for the specific gun you want)

EDIT: Absolutely go buy Titanfall 2, regardless. Freaking great game.
Click to expand...


So in other words it's okay the great players will only be better but matchmaking, despite cod having worst in class matchmaking since forever

I won't support this for one simple reason, it's p2w and why not just pay for a killstreak, hell why not sell tactical nukes for lols?

I only play Mp games for the competition. Which means equal footing for all . No 10% bonus and no .01% bonus. Period
 
S

Steiner

Banned
Dubz said:
Any stat boost, no matter how minor, effects game balance....period.
Click to expand...

You're talking as though the average player doesn't already have at least 5 perks minimum with their combat rig and loadout... It's not as though the only people with perks will be those who spend money or play a lot.
Lower tier weapons have their own perks as well.
 
G

Gator86

Member
texhnolyze said:
DIsgusting. I hope no one is defending this.
Click to expand...

Just you wait. There's a defense force for everything. Please trust companies GAF will eventually emerge to defend this. "They need this money to afford to pay for all the weapons skins they're working on. Weed leaf icons don't create themselves!"
 
C

chillybright

Banned
Lol @ people saying it's not p2w. They must be either ignorant about the concept or performing mental gymnastics for the justification.
 
B

brokenbeans

Banned
The only thing that annoys me about this is when they realise a gun is OP they nerf the shit out until you swear blind it fires marshmallows, but now if you are willing to pay us you can have this OP weapon.

Cunts.
 
F

Foxxsoxx

Member
I've never seen such a generic looking sci-fi shooter with such blatant disregard to it's fanbase, but CoD will find a way. It always does.
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Creaking said:
This is my main and only account. I didn't mean to imply that GAF is a hivemind, but I've seen this behavior persist through most all of the Infinite Warfare threads, and many other Call of Duty threads besides that. And I don't think that many people are completely free of some level of confirmation bias. It's widely accepted to dislike Call of Duty on the internet, even with the flimsiest of reasoning or understanding, and it's dismaying to see that culture permeating through NeoGAF as well.

I tend to do a lot more reading than I do posting, and that's just the impression that I get.
Click to expand...
As someone who played every CoD since CoD 3...IW looks bad, inspired, and grossly taking advantage of the remainder of their fans. It's a dying horse and it's why they are just now going to make it into glue (Remasters). CoD 4 Remaster will be released by itself by May 2016, guaranteed.
 
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