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[NBtoaster]

Is it possible for democrats to combine into one platform the fight for minority rights and other core democratic messages with the concerns of the doesn't-identify-as-racist-but-still-voted-for-a-racist-because-of-other-issues folk? Or are they too incompatible?

 

[stephen08]

Bigots don't just die off. They have children and raise families. Some of those children escape, some take up the mantle and some shit on minorities for not loving the bigoted and ignorant.

This shit is hard wired

That's not meant as a 'it'll work itself out'. I'm of the opinion that stuff gets passed on but as time goes on people get more informed and takes less of a hold. Bigotry will never disappear but they will lose influence through population numbers and the next generations being more enlightened (not a guarantee but certainly a trend).

I agree that it isn't fair to minorities to ask that they try to educate any bigot they come across but by not doing that they are most likely pushing that person farther away. They don't need to do anything but it is just an unfortunate, shitty reality.

 

[norm9]

Who knew it was the democrats who had to get their shit together this whole time?

Well it is some Democrats that decided to hop over to the Jill Stein train and Gary Johnson wacky tabacky shuttle when Bernie couldn't get it done. And then the millions that decided to stay home this year. And the terrible Democratic messaging to coal country and rust belt country.

 

[Angelus Errare]

If you wanna over simplify it to that, sure. But make no mistake, there was other stuff to be seen and spoken about. I also believe the echo chamber we've all been living in has very much skewed our perspective and made us lose sight.

Considering how hard of a battle it's been to get minority groups their equal rights, you're bugging if you think the echo chamber is skewed towards minorities.

Last time I checked, my rights were added as an addendum.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

What does Democratic voter apathy have to do with white moderates placing all of the burden of educating the gullible and/or bigoted on minorities?

This has been going on long before the election, it's just that this is a particularly egregious example.

Because one of their arguments is you need these people to win, and by calling racists racists they won't vote for you.

 

[Dude Abides]

Just say whatever you think is true, whether it offends fee fees or not.

The notion that people voted for Trump did so because people said mean things about them is stupid.

 

[Enzom21]

I didn't personally see the bans. But if that happened then good, I retract that.

Frankly, this is all on the DNC and Hillary and her hardcore supporters. It just so happens, at least here, that many of those voices have been yukking it up for months about how backwards rural white people were, and that Hillary and the Democratic party should give them no quarter. We didn't need a populist message, because only racism and sexism mattered.

Well, they were wrong.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223712400&postcount=15812
There you go, one less boogeyman for you to complain about.

No this is on the voters who voted for a racists, sexist and the democrats who didn't show up.
The burden of changing the white racist's mind falls squarely on the shoulders of the white liberal and no one else.
They will not listen to us, but they might listen to you. It's your job not ours. Change their minds and stop telling us to.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Those 6 million voters that voted for Obama and didn't vote at all were bigots? All we fucking needed was to also address the concerns of atleast 200k of those people in the rust belt and we would have won.

They didn't switch and vote trump because social justice was on the DEM agenda. They stayed home because as a party we failed to ALSO address their concerns.

The fuck are you talking about man

I'm not the one trying to conflate two separate issues.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I think dems need to focus on energizing voters.

Everyone hates PC, and wants to call a spade a spade it seems. People don't want to be offended, but do they want to learn? Well everyone's anti-PC so...

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I'm sure you and many of us have noticed the sudden shift in the last 24 hours, with many members of this website not only telling POC, LBGT, and women that we should tolerate and be accepting of the right, but pretending that not doing so means that we just wanna stick to an echochamber, are trying to take the moral high ground, are just as bad as the the alt right, and a whole bunch of other logic that anyone with even a semblance of logical thought would see is absolutely ridiculous. The crux of the matter is this:

Why are you targeting this criticism towards minorities, lbgt, and women, why do you feel the need to tell them that they are the issue, not the xenophobia, sexism, and racism? That's it's all just a difference of political opinion, when all three are inherently moral issues that have nothing to do with politics whatsoever since they existed before modern politics. You really can't see how ridiculous that sounds? Who are you to tell people who you can't very clearly can't actually empathize with, how they should feel and act? You're honestly telling people that they should welcome backwards and outdated principles treat the people who'd give them no time of day whatsoever and would rather sling a racial slur, defend a rape, tell them they shouldn't exist or that there's something wrong with them, or kick them out of the country with productive discussion when news:WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY DECADES!!

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything . What people actually have been saying in large numbers is that we as a community and the liberal community in general have to do some soul searching if this condemnation of everyone who is not pro-Hillary are racists bigots. It cost Hillary the election. She lost because Liberals pissed off these moderates too much, and it became about these disenfranchised voters feeling prosecuted and in the end they decide voting for Trump, even though he is the most unlikeable candidate in history.
You're asking for blessings to continue a one-way singular path forward. Insult everyone who is not with Yas Queen. Throw the slurs, throw the insults. Continue the contemnation and make NeoGaf a place where we only talk politics in a left leaning echo chamber.
Donald Trump has totally taken advantage of a classic divide and conquer strategy and democrats have completely played into it. Hillarys base (and also GAF collectively) have made people feel unfriendly for having any sort of alternative opinion. You're third? party bigot. support trump? racist and a bigot. dislike Hillary? you're a stooge of russian propaganda. Sanders supporter? purity based low information asshole.
In it's own way Hillarys base have pissed off so many people and probably hurt her chances, just like extreme Bernie Bros did for Bernie.

To reflect on that the current manner of engaging the opposition despite how misguided their views is, is not how you win the election. The echo chamber was that Hillary was gonna win in a landslide. once her gloves would come off she would make trrump fall of a cliff after the first debate. This strategy has completely failed, and I am personally tired of zero summing the idea that trying to win over the moderates and independents with anything other than going regressive left constitutes that one believes that LGBT or POC or women should be fine with opression.
The damage has been done. Let's not double down and honestly think, at the current stage that this can be won. Like others have said I too believe that right-wing will sweep Europe further right in 2017. This is the cost of a slow recovery and stagnant culture. Facism was born when socialism failed, and regression and conservatism always spew up at every economic recession. It's like clockwork.
We all need to realize that accept that the war is not won without them. So don't tell anyone here that invoking a civil rights leaders from the 60s is somehow magically going to prove that continuing on this trajectory is the best way toward.

Democrats need to work for these rustbelt voters. If Trump fails on all his promises, dems have to put in the work to bring new jobs and re-education back. Instead of insulting them, they need to be shown through example that they can change. These rust belt poor whites are not the same republicans who gridlock everything in congress. they hated jeb like they hate clinton. they only want Trump because he would burn everything down. We know its why him and Sanders did well.
So let us not lose focus of that.
Wanting to change strategy and being upset, frustrated and angry at how we as liberals have handled this- both with brexit and this election is not the same as saying that anybody should put up with abuse. But ask yourself how you win. Ask yourself if the strategy of insulting these voters did Clinton any favors. She would have been in the white house if she had gotten those 3 states.

The popular vote doesn't matter. And had Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the electoral vote, everyone here who would have yelled that as well. We know the score and this have been a disaster. Clinton had so many advantages, resources and help and money and it was a landslide. The strategy was all fucked and a new strategy is needed.

 

[cheezcake]

And how exactly do you "comprise" on someone's right as a minority? More of the "just wait until these other issues are solved first then we'll get to yours" which has done wonders for Native and African Americans as history has shown us?

You don't compromise on minority rights you extend an olive branch to the other voters, how is that not obvious. We're not talking about converting the fucking KKK to vote Clinton. We're talking about average Joe who lost his job in the GFC or to globalisation and has hated the wealthy elites since, what did Clinton offer him? Trump's promises are all lies, but they're enticing lies, and he got through to him. We're then left with expecting him to vote against what he perceives are his own best interests for moral reasons, and I'm not quite naive enough to believe that that's a winning strategy.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Considering how hard of a battle it's been to get minority groups their equal rights, you're bugging if you think the echo chamber is skewed towards minorities.

Last time I checked, my rights were added as an addendum.

I'm definitely not saying that my guy. I'm just saying we've all been drinking from the kool-aid and lost some perspective. I mean, every pool was in our favor by a large margin and we still loss. We loss sight somewhere along the line.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's not meant as a 'it'll work itself out'. I'm of the opinion that stuff gets passed on but as time goes on people get more informed and takes less of a hold. Bigotry will never disappear but they will lose influence through population numbers and the next generations being more enlightened (not a guarantee but certainly a trend).

I agree that it isn't fair to minorities to ask that they try to educate any bigot they come across but by not doing that they are most likely pushing that person farther away. They don't need to do anything but it is just an unfortunate, shitty reality.

The problem is that when you have bigotry normalized and erstwhile "allies" asking minorities to ignore it in favor of some nebulous unity, it becomes harder to reduce its influence.

The solution here is not to hope for the best, it's to take a hard look at what's been placed in front of us and decide where to go from here.

 

[Nickle]

How many Christians have been converted to athiesm because someone called them an idiot for believing in fairy tales? Changing people's opinions takes compassion and time, not facts and evidence. I don't think it's an individual's duty to be friendly to Trump supporters, but the Clinton campaign should have done more to get some of them on our side.

 

[faisal233]

You don't compromise on minority rights you extend an olive branch to the other voters, how is that not obvious. We're not talking about converting the fucking KKK to vote Clinton. We're talking about average Joe who lost his job in the GFC or to globalisation and has hated the wealthy elites since, what did Clinton offer him? Trump's promises are all lies, but they're enticing lies, and he got through to him. We're then left with expecting him to vote against what he perceives are his own best interests for moral reasons, and I'm not quite naive enough to believe that that's a winning strategy.

The sad truth is we didn't need a single trump voter. We neglected our base. We didn't need to extend a olive branch, just appeal to our own base in the "FIREWALL" so they would have shown up.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

What do I need to understand about someone who has no qualms about calling people who look like me "terrorists"?

You need to understand that you need them but they don't need you. It's not NeoGAF where they will be banned for their backwards ways so you have to approach the situation differently. You don't have to but as people say, "you do you and I'll do me."

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything . What people actually have been saying in large numbers is that we as a community and the liberal community in general have to do some soul searching if this condemnation of everyone who is not pro-Hillary are racists bigots. It cost Hillary the election. She lost because Liberals pissed off these moderates too much, and it became about these disenfranchised voters feeling prosecuted and in the end they decide voting for Trump, even though he is the most unlikeable candidate in history.
You're asking for blessings to continue a one-way singular path forward. Insult everyone who is not with Yas Queen. Throw the slurs, throw the insults. Continue the contemnation and make NeoGaf a place where we only talk politics in a left leaning echo chamber.
Donald Trump has totally taken advantage of a classic divide and conquer strategy and democrats have completely played into it. Hillarys base (and also GAF collectively) have made people feel unfriendly for having any sort of alternative opinion. You're third? party bigot. support trump? racist and a bigot. dislike Hillary? you're a stooge of russian propaganda. Sanders supporter? purity based low information asshole.
In it's own way Hillarys base have pissed off so many people and probably hurt her chances, just like extreme Bernie Bros did for Bernie.

To reflect on that the current manner of engaging the opposition despite how misguided their views is, is not how you win the election. The echo chamber was that Hillary was gonna win in a landslide. once her gloves would come off she would make trrump fall of a cliff after the first debate. This strategy has completely failed, and I am personally tired of zero summing the idea that trying to win over the moderates and independents with anything other than going regressive left constitutes that one believes that LGBT or POC or women should be fine with opression.
The damage has been done. Let's not double down and honestly think, at the current stage that this can be won. Like others have said I too believe that right-wing will sweep Europe further right in 2017. This is the cost of a slow recovery and stagnant culture. Facism was born when socialism failed, and regression and conservatism always spew up at every economic recession. It's like clockwork.
We all need to realize that accept that the war is not won without them. So don't tell anyone here that invoking a civil rights leaders from the 60s is somehow magically going to prove that continuing on this trajectory is the best way toward.

Democrats need to work for these rustbelt voters. If Trump fails on all his promises, dems have to put in the work to bring new jobs and re-education back. Instead of insulting them, they need to be shown through example that they can change. These rust belt poor whites are not the same republicans who gridlock everything in congress. they hated jeb like they hate clinton. they only want Trump because he would burn everything down. We know its why him and Sanders did well.
So let us not lose focus of that.
Wanting to change strategy and being upset, frustrated and angry at how we as liberals have handled this- both with brexit and this election is not the same as saying that anybody should put up with abuse. But ask yourself how you win. Ask yourself if the strategy of insulting these voters did Clinton any favors. She would have been in the white house if she had gotten those 3 states.

The popular vote doesn't matter. And had Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the electoral vote, everyone here who would have yelled that as well. We know the score and this have been a disaster. Clinton had so many advantages, resources and help and money and it was a landslide. The strategy was all fucked and a new strategy is needed.

I truly don't think this is true. I agree there needs to be less name-calling, but I don't think people were driven to polls in large enough numbers because of it to cause Hilary to lose. The voter turnout really fucked her. Unfortunately, she couldn't energize her base. And apathy won the day---on top of other things. But I really feel like apathy did her in.

 

[samoscratch]

Here's my take:

I am personally not calling you out if you didn't vote for Trump.

I am not calling you out if you didn't vote for Hillary.

I am only calling you out if you did indeed vote for Trump because you are 100% unequivocally passively or not, supporting Trump's sexist, homophobic and racist words that he has spoken out loud on many occasions.
There is no other side to this. If you support a candidate that is saying these things you are supporting those things yourself with your vote. Even if it's not the reason you voted for him.
Even if it's not something you necessarily believe.

That is just fact.

So yes I get to point you out as a racist etc.. because you support one.

Now, was Hillary lumping in anyone not in her camp in as a deplorable? Not from what I saw, correct me if I'm wrong. I def. Would not be ok with that, for the record.

But please don't come in here with "its more complicated than you think, not so black and white. Not fair to call all Trump supporters racist"

Thats really stretching and makes me think you are in denial. There's no way around that.

I can vote for a candidate and not agree with their entire vision yes. But if part of that vision is racism for example, I am supporting it even if I don't agree with it.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything . What people actually have been saying in large numbers is that we as a community and the liberal community in general have to do some soul searching if this condemnation of everyone who is not pro-Hillary are racists bigots. It cost Hillary the election. She lost because Liberals pissed off these moderates too much, and it became about these disenfranchised voters feeling prosecuted and in the end they decide voting for Trump, even though he is the most unlikeable candidate in history.
You're asking for blessings to continue a one-way singular path forward. Insult everyone who is not with Yas Queen. Throw the slurs, throw the insults. Continue the contemnation and make NeoGaf a place where we only talk politics in a left leaning echo chamber.
Donald Trump has totally taken advantage of a classic divide and conquer strategy and democrats have completely played into it. Hillarys base (and also GAF collectively) have made people feel unfriendly for having any sort of alternative opinion. You're third? party bigot. support trump? racist and a bigot. dislike Hillary? you're a stooge of russian propaganda. Sanders supporter? purity based low information asshole.
In it's own way Hillarys base have pissed off so many people and probably hurt her chances, just like extreme Bernie Bros did for Bernie.

To reflect on that the current manner of engaging the opposition despite how misguided their views is, is not how you win the election. The echo chamber was that Hillary was gonna win in a landslide. once her gloves would come off she would make trrump fall of a cliff after the first debate. This strategy has completely failed, and I am personally tired of zero summing the idea that trying to win over the moderates and independents with anything other than going regressive left constitutes that one believes that LGBT or POC or women should be fine with opression.
The damage has been done. Let's not double down and honestly think, at the current stage that this can be won. Like others have said I too believe that right-wing will sweep Europe further right in 2017. This is the cost of a slow recovery and stagnant culture. Facism was born when socialism failed, and regression and conservatism always spew up at every economic recession. It's like clockwork.
We all need to realize that accept that the war is not won without them. So don't tell anyone here that invoking a civil rights leaders from the 60s is somehow magically going to prove that continuing on this trajectory is the best way toward.

Democrats need to work for these rustbelt voters. If Trump fails on all his promises, dems have to put in the work to bring new jobs and re-education back. Instead of insulting them, they need to be shown through example that they can change. These rust belt poor whites are not the same republicans who gridlock everything in congress. they hated jeb like they hate clinton. they only want Trump because he would burn everything down. We know its why him and Sanders did well.
So let us not lose focus of that.
Wanting to change strategy and being upset, frustrated and angry at how we as liberals have handled this- both with brexit and this election is not the same as saying that anybody should put up with abuse. But ask yourself how you win. Ask yourself if the strategy of insulting these voters did Clinton any favors. She would have been in the white house if she had gotten those 3 states.

The popular vote doesn't matter. And had Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the electoral vote, everyone here who would have yelled that as well. We know the score and this have been a disaster. Clinton had so many advantages, resources and help and money and it was a landslide. The strategy was all fucked and a new strategy is needed.

Quality post. Certainly this isn't the only reason, but it's important for us to notice this as well. Not all people are going to fit into this box, but on the whole, this is a significant reason behind the election. Likely a combination behind this, the people who are strongly racist and looked to Trump for solace, and Democrat voter apathy.

 

[Psychoward]

this is the white moderate base

guy in white is a straight white male who's fairly well off so no valid concerns of economic anxiety. he voted trump

when I got his message I was shocked, thought I'd finally be able to find common ground and educate people on why the Trump/Pence ticket is so hateful


the reply was basically a punch in the gut "okay" "thanks for sharing your opinion"


now change takes time, he might do some self-reflecting and realize he fucked up by voting trump but I wouldn't count on it. The funny (/s) thing is even if he realizes how awful all of this is, he voted for Trump gleefully before realizing the actual ramifications it. would have on Americans. He didn't bother to educate himself until after he had already cast his vote.

 

[Astral Dog]

The world is a hellish pit Eden, just stay safe

 

[faisal233]

The fuck are you talking about man

I'm not the one trying to conflate two separate issues.

You are talking about the fact that minorities should have to change the mind of bigots. We don't.

We just need our own base in the rust belt. They felt their concerns weren't addressed and didn't show up. Does not voting also make someone a bigot? Is Colin Kaepernick a bigot?

 

[superbeau]

The ugly truth is that this shit takes time. It's not an easy route. And some people WILL be irredeemable. And that's the worst part. It's hard and success isn't even close to 100%. But this is not only the morally right thing to do, but looking at the demographics of this last election, also the only path.


We'll have to agree to disagree. The things I've seen people on the internet (and on GAF) say about Trump voters has been something else.

I'd like to say I think anyone who say's all Trump voters are racists is wrong. But it's very hard to say that to someone facing the possibility of a Deportation force coming for their parents.

 

[Meowster]

How many Christians have been converted to athiesm because someone called them an idiot for believing in fairy tales? Changing people's opinions takes compassion and time, not facts and evidence. I don't think it's an individual's duty to be friendly to Trump supporters, but the Clinton campaign should have done more to get some of them on our side.

They spent a lot of time trying to do just that at the DNC. I guess maybe they should have done more trying to build up their strongholds instead of trying to win as many states as possible. But I can't blame them. They had the same internal polling that Obama had in 2008 and 2012. The polls happened to be wrong and who knows if we will ever recover because of it.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Because one of their arguments is you need these people to win, and by calling racists racists they won't vote for you.

Call racists racists all you want. But we threw a bunch of people into that label that it didn't fit.

 

[stephen08]

The problem is that when you have bigotry normalized and erstwhile "allies" asking minorities to ignore it in favor of some nebulous unity, it becomes harder to reduce its influence.

The solution here is not to hope for the best, it's to take a hard look at what's been placed in front of us and decide where to go from here.

That's true and hopefully, the democrats come back with something better. I'm all for calling racism and sexism out and disparaging it but you need a game plan to make up for those votes then. Otherwise, sure, you're right. But you're not in power.

 

[cheezcake]

The sad truth is we didn't need a single trump voter. We neglected our base. We didn't need to extend a olive branch, just appeal to our own base in the "FIREWALL" so they would have shown up.

This too, Clinton and the DNC completely and utterly fucked up their campaign strategy by neglecting a number of key states they assumed were a lock and played for an attempted blowout. Meanwhile Trump campaigned heavily in some of these states and surprise, surprise, they flipped. Because whoda thought that campaigning works. It is just depressing considering how many possible avenues there were to win and they fucked them all up through arrogance.

 

[Psychoward]

Call racists racists all you want. But we threw a bunch of people into that label that it didn't fit.

Not racist, just supporting a racist with racist policies to the highest office. yay

 

[borghe]

Today I learned that as a minority person it is on me to understand that my criticism helped the privileged feel disenfranchised and that I need to make them feel empowered again before I am to expect any table scraps in the next 2 or 4 or 8 years.

As a minority I am guessing who have a clear cut vision on what it's like to be stereotyped and unfairly targeted. So why do it to others? Rural America was left behind. Trump's language on the trail fucking sucked (racist, misogynistic, etc). But his message to rural America was simply "your situation sucks. Establishment Washington did this to you. Let's go kick them out and make your life better." They aren't bigots and racists voting for a bigot and racist. They are people down on their luck, out of work, and being told by a man "I give a shit about you and want to help you". No one else came to them, so in his infamous rally words "what have you got to lose?"

As others here have pointed out. They didn't vote for him because of his flaws. They voted in spite of them. Not recognizing that and just calling them blanket racist is practically the same thing. These are people left behind just the same. And trust me, in metro America (aka cities) they don't exactly feel that privilege.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

It's a really shitty situation and it is 100% wrong but that's the way it is, unfortunately. Time will sort it out I believe. Bigots will die off, minority groups will grow but until then we're in for a rough 4 years because of it.

That's a fairy tale if I've ever heard one. That radical change everyone wanted? It's not gonna happen, and it's actually going to take longer to get there. That's 4 years where we'll have no chance of fixing this and other issues. And I'm pretty sure that's not even speculation.

 

[Not]

How many Christians have been converted to athiesm because someone called them an idiot for believing in fairy tales? Changing people's opinions takes compassion and time, not facts and evidence. I don't think it's an individual's duty to be friendly to Trump supporters, but the Clinton campaign should have done more to get some of them on our side.

I agree with you, but it feels like we don't have time.

 

[Ponn]

You need to understand that you need them but they don't need you. It's not NeoGAF where they will be banned for their backwards ways so you have to approach the situation differently. You don't have to but as people say, "you do you and I'll do me."

That's not true at all though. It would be nice if we lived in rosey everyone gets along land but thats not going to happen. Hillary didn't need the muslim or latino haters yesterday, she just needed a few thousand people that felt she wasn't addressing their concerns.

 

[DedValve]

See, in one breath you say you tried to educate, but in another you talk about calling bigots out on their bullshit. That isn't education. When was the last time you memorized a textbook because your teacher called you a retard until you did it?

You're absolutely right that it's not your responsibility. It's unfair to ask you to do what I do. But let me request one thing. Reflect on your zero tolerance policy. Zero tolerance means not sparing the seconds required to think about the context. It means not thinking about why someone said what they said or did what they did. Schools do this shit for violence and how does that work out? Little Jimmy gets kicked out of school for defending himself against a bully. All I ask is that you stop and empathize before blowing up on someone else.

Usually the blowing up is done on me. And i wont blow up on someone unless they display an excessive amount of intolerance but i will call people out on their bullshit where i see it. Thats not blowing up.

 

[capitalCORN]

You are talking about the fact that minorities should have to change the mind of bigots. We don't.

We just need our own base in the rust belt. They felt their concerns weren't addressed and didn't show up. Does not voting also make someone a bigot? Is Colin Kaepernick a bigot?

This is the simplest way to put it. I'm going to put a full stop on the term "moderate liberal". It should be "fashionably left wing".

 

[Crossing Eden]

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything.

Yes they have, multiple times even, ITT, because somehow if we're just nice to them they'll magically vote for our candidate and will totes be swayed. Disregarding the rest of your post as it follows that same poor poor logic that has been debunked multiple times ITT by other posters who thought about the logic behind a moderate suddenly switching from Trump to Hillary because we said nice things about them and tolerated their bigotry.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Not racist, just supporting a racist with racist policies to the highest office. yay

And we lost to him. Some of the blame is on us.

 

[sa201674]

Could anyone explain to me how you could say that all what the Democrat's did was aimlessly label trump voters as racist, sexist, .....ist just because?
Because I think that while things like that did happen to degree, a lot of democrats tried to be as argumentative and as civil using facts and logic as possible.

Trump voters though?
A.)I can understand where a lot of them are coming from, being felt "left out" and tired of what they see as the status quo that's bad ( or simply, how they hate obamacare) but, i'm disappointed at how they are willing to tolerate Trump's hate rhetoric in order to get what they want in exchange for damages to other groups of people who are more likely to be in worse situations to begin with.

B.) The other Trump voters are part of a group that wouldn't listen to any reason no matter how good they were. Basically, a group that's deaf to reason that was a lost cause to begin with.
Of course, lots of democrats are also like this but.....

C.) And then of course there's the group that's actually voting based on hate.


While it's true that the DNC should've done something about group A, I think it's really more saddening how nearly Half of the US are willing to practically tolerate whatever intoleta -ism there is in order to get what they have been promised to a lot of which were outright lies.

Basically, a lack of empathy
"But democrats weren't empathetic too"
But which is more important? The potential of regressivism in terms of social rights and treatment for minorities? The potential accelerated environmental damages not just in the US, but in the world? The potential to influence hate-spouting politicias in the world? The potential to not give an F about proper information and intellectualism?

Sure, you could say that democrats didn't do enough or werent good enough in convincing others, you could say that convinving others that their actions might be hateful would lead them further away from whatever you are saying and you could say how the other candidate is just unlikeable and that reality is harsh but, I don't like the tone that implies any speech that is of potential hate no matter how outrageous is "justified" and "normal" and that it is now wrong to say someone's view might have flaws no matter how polite you say it

But what do I know?

 

[superbeau]

This too, Clinton and the DNC completely and utterly fucked up their campaign strategy by neglecting a number of key states they assumed were a lock and played for an attempted blowout. Meanwhile Trump campaigned heavily in some of these states and surprise, surprise, they flipped. Because whoda thought that campaigning works. It is just depressing considering how many possible avenues there were to win and they fucked them all up through arrogance.

The DNC failed us immensely.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

this is the white moderate base

No. This is one example of the white moderate base.

It's disheartening, but over-generalization/simplification isn't going to lead to anything.

The idea that something like that would be an 'opinion' says something about the nation we live in, and some individuals within it. It's an idea that is going to be hard to fix

 

[Crobber]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223712400&postcount=15812
There you go, one less boogeyman for you to complain about.
No this is on the voters who voted for a racists, sexist and the democrats who didn't show up.
The burden of changing the white racist's mind falls squarely on the shoulders of the white liberal and no one else.
They will not listen to us, but they might listen to you. It's your job not ours. Change their minds and stop telling us to.

Oh fuck off with your boogeyman bullshit. I see motherfuckers almost every damn day in the OT who shit on white people all day and all night long and nothing comes of it but God forbid people don't kowtow to the Liberal echo chamber on these forums, they get banned by Bishoptl with a quickness. Let's be honest here, the mods and one in particular are quite okay with racism towards white people on these forums unless people complain heavily about it. The OT has literally turned into a one sided discussion about how white people are the blame for all of societies problems and i blame Evilore for letting it happen.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Call racists racists all you want. But we threw a bunch of people into that label that it didn't fit.

I don't believe that every Trump supporter is a racist, but I do believe they are gullible, selfish, and/or generally unconcerned with bigotry as long as it's not directed at them.

If the path to avoiding another Trump in the future is turning a blind eye to this to avoid alienating possible voters than I guess that's what Dems will have to do.

Then both sides really will be the same!

 

[LookAtMeGo]

In Time Wises documentary "White Like Me" there is a part where he talks about when the Tea Party movement was happening and phrases being used by people like "we are taking our country back" and ideas about returning America to the glory days and wanting lower taxes. It all sounds really familiar to the current language used by Trump and his supporters like "making America great again." Its also some of the same people involved with Trump behind that movement.

It shows how these ideas are deeply embedded in racism and racist ideologies. Even if someone is uninformed about the history and the covert racism involved in supoorting these ideas, it doesnt obsolve them of any criticism from others for supporting it. And the onus should be one the ones who are supporting things like this to educate themselves.

I would recommend watching the whole thing just cause its awesome and informative but if you skip to about 41 min in, it gets the the point I was talking about.

https://youtu.be/N4w9UnE4FLY

So when people turn this into a race thing. Its because race plays a major role in all of this and people shouldnt be told that its not helping by bringing it up and calling people out on it.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Minorities just need to take the L and recognize that it's more important to not hurt the majorities feelings than to drop truth facts about their reality. That is really all this is about. When the threat is a candidate openly stoking racism sexism and xenophobia the defensiveness is totally expected. It is damn near unrealistic to expect the targets of this bile to not campaign hard against it. But it has beem deemed that your emotions are lesser than there's because you need their vote. So be it

If the is really where democrats (and republicans lololol) wanna place the blame so be it. Not like it matters now.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything . What people actually have been saying in large numbers is that we as a community and the liberal community in general have to do some soul searching if this condemnation of everyone who is not pro-Hillary are racists bigots. It cost Hillary the election. She lost because Liberals pissed off these moderates too much, and it became about these disenfranchised voters feeling prosecuted and in the end they decide voting for Trump, even though he is the most unlikeable candidate in history.
You're asking for blessings to continue a one-way singular path forward. Insult everyone who is not with Yas Queen. Throw the slurs, throw the insults. Continue the contemnation and make NeoGaf a place where we only talk politics in a left leaning echo chamber.
Donald Trump has totally taken advantage of a classic divide and conquer strategy and democrats have completely played into it. Hillarys base (and also GAF collectively) have made people feel unfriendly for having any sort of alternative opinion. You're third? party bigot. support trump? racist and a bigot. dislike Hillary? you're a stooge of russian propaganda. Sanders supporter? purity based low information asshole.
In it's own way Hillarys base have pissed off so many people and probably hurt her chances, just like extreme Bernie Bros did for Bernie.

To reflect on that the current manner of engaging the opposition despite how misguided their views is, is not how you win the election. The echo chamber was that Hillary was gonna win in a landslide. once her gloves would come off she would make trrump fall of a cliff after the first debate. This strategy has completely failed, and I am personally tired of zero summing the idea that trying to win over the moderates and independents with anything other than going regressive left constitutes that one believes that LGBT or POC or women should be fine with opression.
The damage has been done. Let's not double down and honestly think, at the current stage that this can be won. Like others have said I too believe that right-wing will sweep Europe further right in 2017. This is the cost of a slow recovery and stagnant culture. Facism was born when socialism failed, and regression and conservatism always spew up at every economic recession. It's like clockwork.
We all need to realize that accept that the war is not won without them. So don't tell anyone here that invoking a civil rights leaders from the 60s is somehow magically going to prove that continuing on this trajectory is the best way toward.

Democrats need to work for these rustbelt voters. If Trump fails on all his promises, dems have to put in the work to bring new jobs and re-education back. Instead of insulting them, they need to be shown through example that they can change. These rust belt poor whites are not the same republicans who gridlock everything in congress. they hated jeb like they hate clinton. they only want Trump because he would burn everything down. We know its why him and Sanders did well.
So let us not lose focus of that.
Wanting to change strategy and being upset, frustrated and angry at how we as liberals have handled this- both with brexit and this election is not the same as saying that anybody should put up with abuse. But ask yourself how you win. Ask yourself if the strategy of insulting these voters did Clinton any favors. She would have been in the white house if she had gotten those 3 states.

The popular vote doesn't matter. And had Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the electoral vote, everyone here who would have yelled that as well. We know the score and this have been a disaster. Clinton had so many advantages, resources and help and money and it was a landslide. The strategy was all fucked and a new strategy is needed.

Well said. The poligaf emperor has no clothes as far as I'm concerned. Democrats need to do some serious soul searching and not double-down on the same regressive thinking that got us into this mess.

I don't believe that every Trump supporter is a racist, but I do believe they are gullible, selfish, and/or generally unconcerned with bigotry as long as it's not directed at them.

If the path to avoiding another Trump in the future is turning a blind eye to this to avoid alienating possible voters than I guess that's what Dems will have to do.

Then both sides really will be the same!

Honestly, who's calling for this? Let's run a better candidate next time, how about that? Someone who will fight against bigotry AND economic stagnation in the Rust Belt?

 

[tearsintherain]

Feels like a mis-characterization. I don't recall anyone saying that people should be ok with sexism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc or that minorities need to take shit from ANYONE or that progressives have to educate the voters on the issues.

What people are saying is don't immediately shout down someone who disagrees with you and accuse them of being racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. "I agree with Trump's immigration policy" or "I don't think all cops are bad" does not make someone racist. "I don't trust Hillary" does not make someone sexist.

It is entirely your perogative to ignore this of course, and continue on. People who are moderate/conservative will just continue to be silent and the echo chamber will go on.

 

[The Kree]

Oh fuck off with your boogeyman bullshit. I see motherfuckers almost every damn day in the OT who shit on white people all day and all night long and nothing comes of it but God forbid people don't kowtow to the Liberal echo chamber on these forums, they get banned by Bishoptl with a quickness. Let's be honest here, the mods and one in particular are quite okay with racism towards white people on these forums unless people complain heavily about it. The OT has literally turned into a one sided discussion about how white people are the blame for all of societies problems and i blame Evilore for letting it happen.

You don't have to worry about that anymore. We're openly blaming minorities for the downfall of our country from this point forward. We're all equal now.

 

[sanstesy]

This forum is in a full meltdown, oh my fucking god. The bubble has burst indeed.

Because they're not all racists. You can mock the #NotAll____ moniker all you want, but it's the truth.

• There are people in rural America legitimately left behind by technological advances and the new generation running off to the big cities. This doesn't make them racist.
• There are well-meaning religious folk that believe in the sanctity of life. This doesn't make them woman-haters.
• There are uninformed people who genuinely believe Hillary is as corrupt as they get. You can blame the media on this.

Labeling every Trump voter as such is doing to them exactly what racists actually do. You can support filibustering the Republican Congress. You can support protesting Trump's cabinet. Those people are irredeemable. But don't ignore the legitimate grievances of legitimate people. Especially do not paint them all with the broad brush that you yourself despise.

A sane person. +1

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Oh fuck off with your boogeyman bullshit. I see motherfuckers almost every damn day in the OT who shit on white people all day and all night long and nothing comes of it but God forbid people don't kowtow to the Liberal echo chamber on these forums, they get banned by Bishoptl with a quickness. Let's be honest here, the mods and one in particular are quite okay with racism towards white people on these forums unless people complain heavily about it. The OT has literally turned into a one sided discussion about how white people are the blame for all of societies problems and i blame Evilore for letting it happen.

You need to take a break. Like seriously. You made a claim. He used evidence to prove you wrong. Then you flip shit like this? Making more claims without any evidence. Take it down a notch.

This forum is in a full meltdown, oh my fucking god. The bubble has burst indeed.

It's for the best. Those having meltdowns are helping me stay centered and calm. They make me see exactly what I don't want to do. And what I don't want to become.

 

[Lumination]

I'd like to say I think anyone who say's all Trump voters are racists is wrong. But it's very hard to say that to someone facing the possibility of a Deportation force coming for their parents.

I know. I'm sorry it's come to this. FWIW my parents are immigrants too.

The reality is that these mistakes cost us this election. Now is the time for weeping, but don't let your current emotions harden your stance and sabotage our chances in the future.

Thanks for hearing me out and engaging with me, and thanks for trying to convince your coworkers.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Minorities just need to take the L and recognize that it's more important to not hurt the majorities feelings than to drop truth facts about their reality. That is really all this is about. When the threat is a candidate openly stoking racism sexism and xenophobia the defensiveness is totally expected. It is damn near unrealistic to expect the targets of this bile to not campaign hard against it. But it has beem deemed that your emotions are lesser than there's because you need their vote. So be it

If the is really where democrats (and republicans lololol) wanna place the blame so be it. Not like it matters now.

Are you a minority? I'm curious.