FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Ask them to change it to a couple of games.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Forget 60fps, 30fps is still a struggle for some games on PS4 Pro
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
Ask them to change it to a couple of games.
Pestilence11
Member
The system could have twice the power and still games would be 30 fps. Some would be 60 (sports, fighting games, multiplayer shooters) but the point is power means nothing when the priority is visual effects that can be captured in a screen shot.
Edit: I misread but my point still stands. 30 fps target vs 60 fps target.
Edit: I misread but my point still stands. 30 fps target vs 60 fps target.
Sad Affleck
Member
Unless you specifically design a game to run at 60 fps on a Jaguar CPU, increasing the clocks 30% and doubling the GPU power won't be enough to ensure automatic 60 fps on all titles by patching in a '60 fps' mode. Heavier frame drops compared to the original PS4 can be avoided since these drops are most likely happening due to the GPU being pushed too hard. It's not a hardware issue, the PS4 Pro is a fixed hardware platform. Developers have to become accustomed to its idiosyncracies and design around them or tweak their games to avoid overtaxing the GPU. I am confident it will happen, it's still early days and most developers have had very little time with the hardware.
As for the PS4 Pro itself, my only criticism, if it can be called that, is that I still don't understand who it is for and why it exists in the first place. I guess early adopters, console hardcore gamers and Playstation fans are interested in it. Is this a big enough audience to justify a new console release? Those who still haven't bought a PS4 are likely mainstream gamers who are waiting for price drops, console owners who don't want a PS4 for whatever reason or PC gamers who don't want a console.
I guess what I'm asking is this: What does the PS4 Pro offer that the PS4 doesn't? Better visuals, sure. How many console gamers care about that? Hardcore PC gamers care about visuals but also really care about performance and the Pro doesn't offer that. I think the PS4 Pro will sell well to the audience that bought a PS4 at full price three years ago but I don't see it enticing people who haven't bought a PS4 yet or who already own a good gaming PC.
As for the PS4 Pro itself, my only criticism, if it can be called that, is that I still don't understand who it is for and why it exists in the first place. I guess early adopters, console hardcore gamers and Playstation fans are interested in it. Is this a big enough audience to justify a new console release? Those who still haven't bought a PS4 are likely mainstream gamers who are waiting for price drops, console owners who don't want a PS4 for whatever reason or PC gamers who don't want a console.
I guess what I'm asking is this: What does the PS4 Pro offer that the PS4 doesn't? Better visuals, sure. How many console gamers care about that? Hardcore PC gamers care about visuals but also really care about performance and the Pro doesn't offer that. I think the PS4 Pro will sell well to the audience that bought a PS4 at full price three years ago but I don't see it enticing people who haven't bought a PS4 yet or who already own a good gaming PC.
Fbh
Member
No. I think CD project already stated that they won't update the Witcher and we haven't heard anything from Bloodborne.
Plus, I doubt the upgrade on the Pro would allow for 60fps on something like the Witcher 3. Best you could hope for is an unlocked frame rate mode which is, IMO, often worse than locked 30fps.
Always-honest
Banned
Wow, these N4G topic titles lately...
Drakendodertje
Member
High five, same here for the same reasons. Best decision ever or what? God, everythings runs so brilliantly.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Does pro affect your base PS4 experience in any way? Why are you so concerned who it's for?
1.04 seems to have cleared up Watch Dogs 2's problems in the FPS area on Pro. Wonder if DF will do a retest.
Skyrim? Doubt that will ever get fixed. Bethesda gonna Bethesda. It's still early and devs need time to work out how best to use it. We've seen some amazing results already with Battlefield, Titanfall 2 and Ratchet. Horizon New Dawn will hopefully put it to good use.
Skyrim? Doubt that will ever get fixed. Bethesda gonna Bethesda. It's still early and devs need time to work out how best to use it. We've seen some amazing results already with Battlefield, Titanfall 2 and Ratchet. Horizon New Dawn will hopefully put it to good use.
The drops are normal, it's still a console, and I think the kind of drops that WD2 experiences are going to be there for the majority of third party AAA, is not a huge deal either IMO.
Funny how the several people that are being aggressive with you for your concerns did the same exact thing me on another Pro related thread. I guess people don't like to get their purchases questioned.
Funny how the several people that are being aggressive with you for your concerns did the same exact thing me on another Pro related thread. I guess people don't like to get their purchases questioned.
Sad Affleck
Member
Just wondering really.
I like consoles, I like the option for stuff to look better. Result, I'm a Pro owner.
Same here.
I dont see why you are dwfending it so blindly. Its still a very limited machine wasting resources on 4k while it cant even run games at 60fpa on 1080p. If ypu ask me, its a bit of a let down.
I generally think that if framerate is the most important thing to you, you should play on PC or Nintendo.
I would like to see more effort go towards improved framerates on PS4, but it's not enough for me to stop playing on PS4, or to avoid specific games.
I imagine most of the audience care far less than me.
I would like to see more effort go towards improved framerates on PS4, but it's not enough for me to stop playing on PS4, or to avoid specific games.
I imagine most of the audience care far less than me.
holygeesus
Banned
The only thing that concerns me is people with 1080p sets who don't really get the benefit of the quality increase and have to suffer the lesser performance otherwise I'm impressed by how clean WD2 looks, so the dips I can live with. It's a £350 console, at the end of the day. I paid more than that for the cooling system in my PC alone.
Sad Affleck
Member
Did you own a PS4 before the pro?
I hope the trend doesn't continue though but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
4/36 is 11.111 percent though
4/36 is 11.111 percent though
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I've been watching all the Digital Foundry footage and the Pro is really disappointing IMO, when it was first announced I thought it would improve all current games (like when you buy a new GPU on PC) so every 30fps game would now actually run at 30fps and others that were close to 60fps would now run at 60fps but what we got was even better graphics with worse performance, the Pro just enhances the problem I have with consoles in the first place so I'll stick with my regular PS4 which is purely an exclusive box anyway (can't wait for Horizon).
Fbh
Member
As far as I know Sony only tests that the games don't screw up the console. They don't test frame rates or graphical options.
Yes. Is this not lining up with your preconceived ideas?
Equanimity
Member
OP can remove Watch Dogs 2 from the list. The patch last night has improved the performance and eliminated screen tearing.
It was more of a hope than a thought, without that evolutive consoles are pointless
Equanimity
Member
Come on now. There are only 3 games out of the 35+ that are negatively effected as far as their performancen is concerned. All of them can be fixed with a patch.
Sad Affleck
Member
Then you belong to the part of the market that I understand. I questioned whether the PS4 Pro would entice consumers that are yet to buy a PS4.
Silent Hill
Banned
I agree.
I haven't seen a blatant misinformation campaign this blatant since the 360/PS3 days.
For whatever reason the Pro has brought out all of the deplorables.
Does it matter? Maybe the slim has that market covered?
Framerate issues will always exist on consoles unless Sony/MS mandate a performance standard for games to release on their platform. They'd ever do that, but if they did, it would never be for 60fps.
If it matters that much to you, PC is the only option. Big reason why I migrated over.
If it matters that much to you, PC is the only option. Big reason why I migrated over.
For early adopters and tech enthusiasts that have had a PS4 for three years already and fancy something with more oomph.
For those that have bought 4k TVs and are hungry for 4k content to feed it
For those that might have having one eye on a PC and considering moving away from the Playstation (important segment that Sony pointed out)
For Sony, its a relatively simple way to maintain higher margins while the 'traditional' launch console gets lowered in price as usual. Its all incremental revenue
LukasTaves
Member
1800p with checkerboard (what most games are falling to) isn't a 150% increase, it's less than double the resolution. If it's like 2160p checkerboard it's half the resolution, checkerboarded to 1800p and then upscaled to 4k.
Imo, this is what's mostly disappointing about the pro. Despite the 2.3 gpu bump it can't sustain the twice the resolution that's required for using checkerboard in many games, and in some despite not hitting that target it still runs worse than og ps4.
Bought a PS4 Pro with ROTTR on Wednesday, just completed it with every collectable a few hours ago all in 4K. Did not notice a frame drop at all.
Can't comment on the other games listed there although I will be starting Watch Dogs 2 next but it can't be that bad. I watched the DF video for watch dogs 2 and wasn't it only in certain situations the frame rate was worse.
Can't comment on the other games listed there although I will be starting Watch Dogs 2 next but it can't be that bad. I watched the DF video for watch dogs 2 and wasn't it only in certain situations the frame rate was worse.
This issue and worse preformance on Pro titles is the real issue.
Targeting 30 for PS4 should mean locked 30 99.999% on the Pro. It's a premium "preformance" console, so theres really no justification for this. Sony cert needs to step in.
PC has its own set of issues. And brute force isn't a very elegant option either. Truth be told, it's easier for the consoles to control this and get the industry on board. And if they do, PC users will reap the benefits as well.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's not an "issue" though .. 4 out of 41 games, two of which have already been patched.
Last of Us runs at native 4K with a rock solid 30, only dops 2 frames out of 60 more than OG PS4 but even that's rendering at 1800p, almost double that of the OG PS4.
People trying to make it a bigger "issue" than it really is, is the actual issue here.
Marty Chinn
Member
Why are we beng inaccurate with The Last of Us by trying to clam the difference is smaller than it is? It's not just 2 frames. DF clearly states it's often in the mid 50s with around 5 frames lost and can hit as low as 10 frames worse. That's not only 2 frames. Can we at least accurately represent the state rather than try to sugar coat it?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I skimmed through the video again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a58dH2OzgB0
At most it goes 5~6fps below the OG version in the 60 FPS mode in like for like scenes. It would be a bigger deal if it drops 5, 6 FPS on a 30 FPS game constantly.It's not sugar coating when you factor in the game is still pushing almost twice as many pixels in the unlocked mode and is a solid 30 FPS at native 4K to boot.
There seems to be a lot of concern going on in this thread about these 3, 4 games giving off a few less frames than their OG counterparts at much higher resolutions while ignoring the other 90% currently patched Pro games which offer both visual and performance enhancements. It's like people are latching on to the same 3, 4 games and using it as the crux of their arguments.
You can't completely ignore the whole point of the checkerboard strategy, which is to use meaningful render data from the prior frame when possible. In a best-case scenario it's getting a 150% increase, in a worst case it's just 78%, and the typical case is going to be a blend of the two with detail exactly where your eye can linger and pick it out.
We've had plenty of testimonials including from Digital Foundry that when done well it's basically indistinguishable from the corresponding native resolution at sane viewing distances.
Stealthcobra
Member
Exactly... Cause for whatever reason they want it to fail or their so anal it's absurd. If you're playing a game and say omg thats 29 fps.. You should stop gaming cause you're not having fun anymore nitpicking the shit out of everything. I've played watchdogs 2 before and after patch and I can't tell a difference.. Didnt notice any frame difference before... I'm playing the game not looking for shit to complain about.
It's the same reason games on Sega, Nintendo and MS consoles also have frame rates that drop below their target.
UpUpDownDown
Member
I still can't believe there's people on GAF who don't understand framerate is a developer choice.
They could make every game 60fps if they wanted. Even more so on consoles since everyone's hardware standardized.
They could make every game 60fps if they wanted. Even more so on consoles since everyone's hardware standardized.
PodcastFips
Member
Another one of these threads, alright.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It's sad how many people jump to the defence of poorly performing games, especially so for those on a supposed premium console. Almost like they want to censor the truth.
In the age of post release patches quality control has gone down the toilet and framerates are often all over the place. Choosing 30fps over the superior 60fps is one thing, but not even hitting that in some places is even worse and should be called out.
"Meh it's close enough" is not the attitude!
In the age of post release patches quality control has gone down the toilet and framerates are often all over the place. Choosing 30fps over the superior 60fps is one thing, but not even hitting that in some places is even worse and should be called out.
"Meh it's close enough" is not the attitude!
Marty Chinn
Member
If you listen to the video, they specifically state that it's often in the mid 50s, or around 5 fps less than the game while the original is locked at 60. It also specifically states it can drop as low as 10 fps less than the OG. An inconsistent framerate can still make the game feel worse or stuttery even if it's only a few frames constantly going up and down.
It is sugar coating it when you try to make it sound better than it is by saying it's only 2 frames. All I'm saying is, let's be accurate rather than try to make things sound better than it is.
It's also more than four games that have issues at this point. I'm not saying the sky is falling, nor that these issues can't be resolved, but let's try to be accurate to what the situation is rather than trying to make it look like it's being down played. I'm much more concerned about the terrible Pro support for World of Final Fantasy than I am about some of these other games. That game better get fixed.
There are people on here who are determining if they'll buy a game solely on if the game supports the Pro or not, so there are people on both sides of the spectrum putting too much weight on the pros and cons of how it affects games on the Pro.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
The back of the damn box doesn't even mention 4K, but it does list 'higher framerates' ffs.
