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[KORNdoggy]

failing to see why they're not just cutting their losses with xbone and releasing scorpio as a new gen if this is the case. shitting on your established userbase to promote your new shiny manchine doesn't seem too smart.

"oh, all our games are forward and backwards compatible. but if you're unlucky enough to own an original system all the games are going to look like garbage! woo!"

 

[bennibop]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

It isn't a new gen console, it's their version of the PS4 Pro

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Phil Spencer has clearly stated Scorpio is a Xbox One, like Pro is to PS4

Then anyone who buys a Scorpio is a moron. There are 20 XBones for very Scorpio they sell. No dev is going to make Games that leverage Scorpio only to run like shit on the original.

 

[jelly]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

What, there is loads of stuff. Sea of Thieves, Crackdown, Halo Wars 2, State of Decay, Scalebound, Cuphead.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Then anyone who buys a Scorpio is a moron. There are 20 XBones for very Scorpio they sell. No dev is going to make Games that leverage Scorpio only to run like shit on the original.

Why make a PS4 Pro then?

I mean it's been made clear from the start it isn't a new gen console yet people are saying it is. Where is all this coming from?

 

[kswiston]

People are already complaining about fake 4k on the PS4 Pro. All Scorpio's 1.5x spec bump from the pro will do is give you full, native 4k for current gen games.

Old XB1 running games like an old laptop can only really happen if they just give up on 4k, and go nuts at 1080p.

 

[TheYanger]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

If it devalues the Xbox One it does the same thing to hte PS4 - games that 'look like a laptop' on the Xbone aren't miraculously going to look better on a PS4, they'll look like laptop 1080p instead of laptop 900. But let me guess, don't own an xbox one anyway?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Why make a PS4 Pro then?

I mean it's been made clear from the start it isn't a new gen console yet people are saying it is. Where is all this coming from?

The PS4 to PS4 PRO jump isn't as significant as the XBone to Scorpio jump.

 

[Stormforger]

I don't understand the comments in this tread where people are saying that Scorpio should be a new Generation... I thought the whole point was that there will be No New Generations of consoles. Just like Windows PC's can be upgraded with more memory and new graphics cars every few years and run the same games, the Xbox One will be upgraded every few years and run the same games. Yep, Scorpio games will look better, but that's the point.

 

[hodgy100]

If it devalues the Xbox One it does the same thing to hte PS4 - games that 'look like a laptop' on the Xbone aren't miraculously going to look better on a PS4, they'll look like laptop 1080p instead of laptop 900. But let me guess, don't own an xbox one anyway?

console games already look like they are running on an old laptop.

my laptop is "an old laptop" by laptop standards its a 2013 i7 + GTX765 that runs games at roughly x1 spec.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The PS4 to PS4 PRO jump isn't as significant as the XBone to Scorpio jump.

Yet it is still a Xbox One, like the Pro is a PS4

We don't even know the price of this thing yet

 

[gafneo]

Scorpio is a new generation. Has to be. Otherwise it's just Microsoft being embarrassed that they lost the dick measuring contest with Sony over the original Xbox One vs PS4 and are overcompensating.

The Gulf in performance is just too large - they tie it to the original XBone and no developer will ever make games that use the extra power. The install base all own XBOX One!

Nah, its just a reason to shoot for true 4K and console VR.

 

[c0de]

failing to see why they're not just cutting their losses with xbone and releasing scorpio as a new gen if this is the case. shitting on your established userbase to promote your new shiny manchine doesn't seem too smart.

"oh, all our games are forward and backwards compatible. but if you're unlucky enough to own an original system all the games are going to look like garbage! woo!"

Because they have more than 20 million customers?!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Nah, its just a reason to shoot for true 4K and console VR.

Don't see how that precludes it from being a new generation.

 

[kswiston]

The PS4 to PS4 PRO jump isn't as significant as the XBone to Scorpio jump.

Isn't the required spec bump from 1080p gaming to 4k gaming somewhere around 4x? The XB1 doesnt even run a lot of current games at 1080p (900p is pretty common).

 

[dh4niel]

I'll believe it when I see it. It's just hyperbole at this point.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Isn't the required spec bump from 1080p gaming to 4k gaming somewhere around 4x? The XB1 doesnt even run a lot of current games at 1080p (900p is pretty common).

As I said earlier, Scorpio is a response to Microsoft's complete underestimation of the original PS4. The jump is so high that it won't be possible to leverage Scorpios specs and cater to XBone without compromise, and since XBONE has an exponentially larger install base the compromise will be on Scorpios end. 4k capability is just a convenient excuse, Scorpio still isn't a 4k console.

 

[Chris1]

I agree with you. But to be fair, I think Phil Spencer is intentionally doing an "under-promise, over-deliver" on price.

Absolutely. Phil is a smart guy. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows by mentioning "Premium" people will run away with $799, $899. He could say "Scorpio will be at a premium/higher price than an apple" and people would still run away with that price point. He's been in the industry long enough to gauge the reaction he will get from saying such words.

But the fact his statements are always so-so and comparing to the XB1 S tells you all you really need to know. He doesn't want to say $399 and wants people to think it will be higher (so it doesn't hurt S sales and for shock factor), but he also doesn't want to lie either.

 

[LukasTaves]

This is fine. The roadmap should be.

Games targeting a 2017-early 2018 release should target One, optimise for Scorpio

Games targeting a late 2018-early 2019 release should target Scorpio, scale down for One.

In 2018 allow devs to start making Scorpio exclusive.

From late 2019, officially cut off Xbox One and make Scorpio the new "base model". That gives Xbox One a 6 year cycle.

The great thing about iterative console releases is that there's no need to have a official cut off anymore. It will be up to the devs on a per game basis. Eventually it will dry off, but as a result you should play pretty much everything on xbone for much longer than 6 years.

 

[LukasTaves]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

That's simply nonsense.

First 360 was a thing. Second they have said over and over that Scorpio won't kill the xbone. The only ones saying Scorpio is a new generation is Sony with the fud "if it has a new cpu it's a new gen"

 

[sammyCYBORG]

I understand the move with PS4P because of the size of the jump, but the Scorpio will be a generational bump... not sure why they don't just call it that.

 

[op_ivy]

failing to see why they're not just cutting their losses with xbone and releasing scorpio as a new gen if this is the case. shitting on your established userbase to promote your new shiny manchine doesn't seem too smart.

Isn't ditching your user base that was specifically told would play all games moving forward, even after scorpio launched a massive shitting on?





As much as I too feel scorpio is going to be held up by x1, ms would be stupid as shot to do a 180 here. Best case scenario, after a few years, scorpio will be untethered and unleashed

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

How not? Games will look less impressive in comparison. They're not wilfully gimping the Xbox One releases. They'll be on the same level of performance as they can be now but developers have the power to go further on Scorpio. Xbox One has at least another 4 years left in it for Prime releases

failing to see why they're not just cutting their losses with xbone and releasing scorpio as a new gen if this is the case. shitting on your established userbase to promote your new shiny manchine doesn't seem too smart.

"oh, all our games are forward and backwards compatible. but if you're unlucky enough to own an original system all the games are going to look like garbage! woo!"

This was not the statement of a Microsoft employee. It came from an independent developer. Also ever play on PC?

 

[Milly Osworth]

Jump in

old laptop

 

[Collateral22]

It all depends on what CPU they use. Jaguar and it's no more than a res and graphical options boost. For me though, Zen would signal a new generation for MS.

 

[martino]

this is if dev take the equation in the wrong way.

 

[Space_nut]

How not? Games will look less impressive in comparison. They're not wilfully gimping the Xbox One releases. They'll be on the same level of performance as they can be now but developers have the power to go further on Scorpio. Xbox One has at least another 4 years left in it for Prime releases

Exactly I see Xbox One and PS4 being supported till 2019. There will still be games that look better and better with more optimizations. When devs work on the Scorpio it'll just be them using any graphical feature without worrying of making sacrifices

 

[DieH@rd]

I hope that MS will not spit in the face of their fans and allow exclusive Scorpio content for the next few years.

However, Iliesiu also said that, “If it’ll be the other way around, and the games will be pushed to the limits, to look amazing on the Scorpio first, it’ll probably feel like playing on an old laptop, when playing that game on the Xbox One.”

Some would say that Xbone games already look like that.

 

[justsomeguy]

They'll be on the same level of performance as they can be now but developers have the power to go further on Scorpio.

So many people seem to be missing this point. Oh noes, MS are going to remove half my Xbox One's gigawiggles when they launch Scorpio!

 

[TheRed]

The joke is it's already like an old laptop...

Heh not quite maybe, but playing FFXV it's blurriness is really crazy to me when coming from PC games at 4K.

 

[Zedox]

People are trying so hard to make Project Scorpio a new generation. It's just a spec bump and ability to play VR games. Everything about the system is the same. In the same "Xbox One Family" as Spencer stated. It's the same as PS4Pro but the spec is even higher than that.

Xbox One = Medium Settings, 30/60 FPS at 900/1080p
Xbox One Scorpio = High Settings, 30 FPS at 4k, 60 at 1080p

It's really going to boil down to that for majority of the games that support Scorpio out the gate. They haven't even reached the full potential of the Xbox One (look at Gears/FH3), it still will have a lot of life left, especially with consumers who don't buy consoles until they are much cheaper.

This whole, they need to drop XBO because Scorpio has better specs is just yall acting as if dropping support for XBO is going to be beneficial to Microsoft financially. They need more people in the ecosystem, not less because of power. This is to grab the power hungry users, not get everyone on the same system. It's about broadening the spectrum of users in their ecosystem of games.

Xbox One = Low Spec
Xbox One Scorpio = Medium Spec
Windows PC = Variable from Low to High Spec

It's getting all of those users who play console/pc video games. They aren't going to continue the same ole "generation" mantra that people have been using because it's a new time and people are just going to drop stuff because a new shiny thing is out. Majority of people don't buy a new iPhone every year. The hardcore do...and that's what MS is going after within the console space.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

R E L A T I V E L Y
S P E A K I N G

ffs

Og XB0 games aren't going to look like old laptop games.

Except hyperbolically, next to the significantly powerful successor console.

What an unbelievable thing.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Don't see how that precludes it from being a new generation.

Cause it will play the lions share of titles with its little brother, the Xbox One.

This is not a new generation, no matter how many times people write it on a message board.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

They supported 360 quite a long time after X1 came out?

Titanfall,

Forza Horizon 2

Tomb Raider?

EDIT: Zoo Tycoon, Max: Curse of the brotherhood, Fable Anniversary, Halo Spartan Assault (cough). What didn't they put on 360 they could have?

 

[op_ivy]

Potentially stop is thought of the day (just got up)...

if scorpio IS handled like pro and the only significant upgrade to games is resolution (in this case "true 4k"), does that mean at least with first party games the ps4 pro will still have the best graphics?

Ignoring the slight t difference between "4k" and "true 4k"?

As an example, horizon on ps4 is (un)arguably the best looking game from this gen. Nothing x1 has can compete with it imo. Scaling ms's best to true 4k won't change that compared to horizon on "4k".

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

It all depends on what CPU they use. Jaguar and it's no more than a res and graphical options boost. For me though, Zen would signal a new generation for MS.

Even it use i7 and GTX 1080 it still not a new gen, because MS's target is kill the "generation" term.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Reading some of the comments here on the last pages...

How did we get from the OP, which quotes an interview with a third party dev -- an answer to a question designed to ascertain how powerful Scorpio is -- to "all games are going to target Scorpio primarily and Microsoft is abandoning their userbase"?

The words didn't even come from Microsoft's mouth, and if they did they still wouldn't be worth any evidence as far as developers making Scorpio the "base" format.

 

[Widge]

Nah, its just a reason to shoot for true 4K and console VR.

Will it even do that? I've got a £450 graphics card in my PC and that isn't considered a 4K card. I think we're going to see upscaling here too.

The push to 4K is a bit early. Technology and mass market isn't there yet.

 

[……forgetit]

failing to see why they're not just cutting their losses with xbone and releasing scorpio as a new gen if this is the case.

That's exactly what it is. I've been saying it from the beginning. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are two very different strategies.

Will it even do that? I've got a £450 graphics card in my PC and that isn't considered a 4K card. I think we're going to see upscaling here too.

The push to 4K is a bit early. Technology and mass market isn't there yet.

The hell? What card do you have?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Yep. That was always the big fear with these half gen consoles. Getting New 3DS'ed.
I hope Microsofts standards don't allow such half assed efforts, but I 0% trust either Sony or Microsofts certification process to reject poor performing back-ports.

 

[KageMaru]

We already know Scorpio will far outclass the XBO. I think no matter what, any game with a proper Scorpio mode will make the XBO version look poor in comparison.

 

[Zedox]

Potentially stop is thought of the day (just got up)...

if scorpio IS handled like pro and the only significant upgrade to games is resolution (in this case "true 4k"), does that mean at least with first party games the ps4 pro will still have the best graphics?

Ignoring the slight t difference between "4k" and "true 4k"?

As an example, horizon on ps4 is (un)arguably the best looking game from this gen. Nothing x1 has can compete with it imo. Scaling ms's best to true 4k won't change that compared to horizon on "4k".

"Best graphics"...uhm, that's always up to the developer. And it is arguable that Gears 4 would have better graphics as it has been seen in 4K (on PC) and that's what it would be most likely on Scorpio. I would say the graphics is up to the style in that case. Not knocking Horizon cuz it is a beautiful game, but if two machines are put next to each other and one is objectively more powerful, then the actual game graphics is up to the developer, not the machne.

What I would say is that Microsoft's 1st party games will be native 4K (going by what MS stated...it could be less but let's just say it is) that are all the Play Anywhere games. The reason I say this is because they are all built with UWP in mind and already scale their game on the PC side of things, Scorpio is just another spec that they dev for just as any other on the PC.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

That's exactly what it is. I've been saying it from the beginning. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are two very different strategies.



The hell? What card do you have?

What are these different strategies you speak of?

 

[Suzushiiro]

I mean, Scorpio and Pro are unlikely to score a huge chunk of the market- in the end, most people are going to be playing these games on the base PS4 and XBO units, so it's unlikely that we'll see games that are built with Scorpio or even Pro as the "lead platforms" over those two and thus run/look like ass on them (not to be confused with games like FFXV/TLG that run like ass on them because the're just a fucking mess technically and the Pro/Scorpio push them to acceptable levels via raw brute force.)

 

[……forgetit]

What are these different strategies you speak of?

Microsoft plans on abandoning traditional generations, similar to the iPhone strategy, where games will still work on the Xbone but devs have the option of just being Scorpio with the Xbone eventually being phased out. The PS4 Pro mandates that the game works on the PS4. It's basically a much more aggressive new 3DS.

 

[leeh]

The difference with PC is the baseline spec is fixed. On PC you can set an arbitrary target and adjust hardware performance to get the results you want. On console the dev will need to choose how it performs on target A vs target B

On ps360 with late generation games we saw some struggling as PC engines progressed and left things behind. With this generation if the same thing happens then people may complain that MS/Sony are 'forcing' people to upgrade to pro/Scorpio, when it may simply be the natural evolution of engines slowly pushing the OG consoles too far and leaving them behind

Let's talk practically here. Say Gears 4, you have your base Xbox One version and then they're doing a Scorpio patch. All theyre going to do is change the graphical settings to exploit the Scorpio. They're going to fully utilise the Scorpio, it's going to look lovely. Like it does on PC.

The only reason we saw that with the PS3/360 is due to how long the generation went on for. We're not going to see that again, like people have stated, the OG X1 will probably become out of life in around 2019, and then we'll see the successor to the Scorpio and then the Scorpio becoming the base. Rinse repeat.

I really don't see the huge problem people are talking about.

 

[KageMaru]

That's exactly what it is. I've been saying it from the beginning. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are two very different strategies.

Both strategies offer a high and low end modes. Don't understand what you're saying here.

 

[GusZamboni]

So a new generation.

nah, just different quality of visuals

 

[mcrommert]

So many hot takes based of the words of some dev who is talking about a piece of unreleased hardware that is not finalized nor will hit the market for about a year.

Amazing