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[tapedeck]

Do you see devs bothering with the PS4 at 2019?

.

Probably but the situations are very different.

PS4-->Pro power gap isn't nearly as wide as Xbone-->Scorpio.

PS4 has clearly won the install base.

MS is pushing PC versions of games so in 2019-2020 the Xbone would clearly be the underpowered 3rd option and a chore to port down to anytime a dev wants to take advantage of Scorpio's power. In fact I think come 2020 the only games you'll see on Xbone are the annual Sports roster updates and feature gutted FPS's.

 

[th4tguy]

Oh look its something thats completely false in every way

So the problem is at first MS reps were stating:

Microsoft reps have spoken on the subject of Xbox Scorpio exclusives, stating that it was up to the development community if they wanted to make high-spec launches.

It was only later clarified that those exclusives would be VR games. So there are still a bunch of people that are confused by MS messaging.

 

[SneakersSO]

Do you see devs bothering with the PS4 in 2019?

Right now, the order of priority devs/pubs see their releases (depending on whether they are PC-centric or not) needing to hit in order to recoup dev. cost is PS4/PC/X1. Depending on who you are, you might switch PC for PS4 in that order. Basically, the PS4 is a huge profit generator for pubs/devs right now, with many of them making most of their profit off of the back of its software sales.

Devs will focus on the PS4 sku as long as that continues to be true. We had multiplat games still hitting the PS3 as late as 2014, 8 years after the system's launch. Destiny The Taken King still came out on in it 2015. 2019 puts the PS4 at 6 years old - unless that system's software sales fall off a cliff between now & then, devs will continue to support it.

 

[Feel the Swift]

Why do we care what a random dev says right now? Wait for the official announcement from Microsoft.

 

[Sydle]

Spork, you are full of shit. Spencer went on record several times saying outside of VR all games on Scorpio will run on a Xbox One. He said Scorpio is part of the Xbox One family of devices.

I think you are remembering something from Loftis where she mistakenly said devs could make Scorpio exclusives. She corrected it quickly after Spencer restated that's not the case.

 

[SneakersSO]

Probably but the situations are very different.

PS4-->Pro power gap isn't nearly as wide as Xbone-->Scorpio.

PS4 has clearly won the install base.

MS is pushing PC versions of games so in 2019-2020 the Xbone would clearly be the underpowered 3rd option and a chore to port down to anytime a dev wants to take advantage of Scorpio's power. In fact I think come 2020 the only games you'll see on Xbone are the annual Sports roster updates and feature gutted FPS's.

If X1 games are still selling well to its userbase, and the PS4 is still one of the primary profit drivers for pubs, thus making the PS4/X1 tier the de-facto base & standard for development, then yes, they will continue to focus on those skus.

The only way devs are going to be able to focus & utilize Scorpio's power is if that system winds up being a breakout success (console sales pace has to outpace X1, at the very least) and devs start seeing their games being played more on Scorpio than on X1.

 

[Sydle]

So the problem is at first MS reps were stating:


It was only later clarified that those exclusives would be VR games. So there are still a bunch of people that are confused by MS messaging.

No, it was one rep, Shannon Loftis who made a mistake and corrected it the very same day. Spencer had the first word on this during the Scoprio conference reveal and right after in an interview. What he said never changed.

 

[Izuna]

Totally devalues the Xbox One, this is Microsoft trying to wipe the slate and start a new gen. I can't back this practice, they have dropped every gen like a stone, them ploughing time into Scorpio probably explains the lack of 1st party software in the next 12 months.

You massively misunderstand what the Scorpio is.

 

[Nategc20]

Just admit it's a new system, Spencer. Say it's got Xbox One backwards compatibility and just call it a day.

This.

This gen is already over. Start anew ms unless you have something crazy good in 2020.

 

[AndyD]

That's an interesting thing to say about a console still trying to be sold for the coming year.

All indications are that it will be powerful but premium priced, maybe at $399-499, so the current S can fill in the $199-249 niche without canibalizing each other too much. After all, double the price is not trivial.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have a feeling they'll announce that at e3 under the excuse that the console is so powerful it distanced itself from the xbox one and they had created a monster masterpiece for gamers with 10tf of sheer power and they had to call it their next-gen system. Hype follows.

For sale for only $599!

 

[tapedeck]

If X1 games are still selling well to its userbase, and the PS4 is still one of the primary profit drivers for pubs, thus making the PS4/X1 tier the de-facto base & standard for development, then yes, they will continue to focus on those skus.

The only way devs are going to be able to focus & utilize Scorpio's power is if that system winds up being a breakout success (console sales pace has to outpace X1, at the very least) and devs start seeing their games being played more on Scorpio than on X1.

Eh, I think Scorpio would just have to roughly 'keep pace' with what Xbone was doing (I think it will) and outpacing it isn't necessary for devs to want to make Scorpio only games 2-3 years from now..the system just has to sell well and start getting significant market penetration and I believe PC/Scorpio will be the most attractive options to AAA devs but that's just my take.

 

[Izuna]

Microsoft plans on abandoning traditional generations, similar to the iPhone strategy, where games will still work on the Xbone but devs have the option of just being Scorpio with the Xbone eventually being phased out. The PS4 Pro mandates that the game works on the PS4. It's basically a much more aggressive new 3DS.

They don't though. They have specifically said so Xbone games will work with Scorpio.

 

[th4tguy]

No, it was one rep, Shannon Loftis who made a mistake and corrected it the very same day. Spencer had the first word on this during the Scoprio conference reveal and right after in an interview. What he said never changed.

OK, my point still stands. The news got out about the reps statement and so some people are still confused.

 

[Rikimaru82]

Dropping Xbox for 360 after only 4 years was the best move they did, who says lightening can't strike twice?

Sony did help them with the crazy early years of the PS3. I don't see Sony making that same mistake twice. XBOX owners would be scammed twice if this would happen tho

 

[Sydle]

OK, my point still stands. The news got out about the reps statement and so some people are still confused.

At least now you know it was a mistake and they didn't intend to spread mixed messaging or change their mind.

 

[BinaryBear07]

The key in that whole comment was games that are developed on Scorpio first. MS already said there would not be Scorpio only games. I don't see anyone developing that way if what we have been told is true.

 

[SneakersSO]

Eh, I think Scorpio would just have to roughly 'keep pace' with what Xbone was doing (I think it will) and outpacing it isn't necessary for devs to want to make Scorpio only games 2-3 years from now..the system just has to sell well and start getting significant market penetration and I believe PC/Scorpio will be the most attractive options to AAA devs but that's just my take.

Sorry, but your take is incorrect on a number of levels. For starters, the Scorpio won't be launching with anything in the vein of a generational exclusive, neither from 1st or 3rd party, at least nothing that takes advantage of the system's power anyway. All of the games we know are coming by next fall will still have their baseline be the Xbone version. Most we get out of titles like Scalebound & Crackdown 3 is native 4K, which will be enough for the Xbox faithful to make the jump to Scorpio, but PC guys already have 4K machines that can play those games.

At full price, and with the X1 S sitting next to it at potentially half the cost ($250, maybe $200 vs $500), with the same exact library, with the only notable difference being native 4K on select titles, which do you think mass market consumers are going to buy? If you still think its the Scorpio, then you're not living in our market reality. This is the market reality for the Scorpio. Even if they turned it into a new generation, its still facing the exact same set of problems. And in order to even be considered to be supported, they would need to outpace X1 S sales, nevermind X1 sales at launch. That just isn't happening. The Pro isn't anywhere near to outselling the PS4 - you think the situation would be flipped for the X1/Scorpio just because its MS? No way.

 

[Future PhaZe]

god bless scorpio

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

Spork, you are full of shit. Spencer went on record several times saying outside of VR all games on Scorpio will run on a Xbox One. He said Scorpio is part of the Xbox One family of devices.

I think you are remembering something from Loftis where she mistakenly said devs could make Scorpio exclusives. She corrected it quickly after Spencer restated that's not the case.

Either people are misremembering or they are actively trying to spread misinformation.

Damn this post-truth reality we live in.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

OK, my point still stands. The news got out about the reps statement and so some people are still confused.

The "confused" narrative makes me laugh. MS has been pretty upfront about what they are trying to achieve with this console. I feel that most of the confusion was from a core of fanboys trying to compare the Scorpio reveal to the XB1 reveal in order to criticize MS for poor messaging. Are some people confused? Probably, but I can't imagine it's a large number of people.

 

[SneakersSO]

The "confused" narrative makes me laugh. MS has been pretty upfront about what they are trying to achieve with this console. I feel that most of the confusion was from a core of fanboys trying to compare the Scorpio reveal to the XB1 reveal in order to criticize MS for poor messaging. Are some people confused? Probably, but I can't imagine it's a large number of people.

It's not just a conflation between the Scorpio/X1 reveal that people are trying to draw with this confusion - Xbox fans have also utilized this one confusion thanks to one rep being wrong in that there would be Scorpio exclusive titles, which has led many Xbox fans into believing that this is going to be a new generation for MS. That just simply isn't the case.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It's not just a conflation between the Scorpio/X1 reveal that people are trying to draw with this confusion - Xbox fans have also utilized this one confusion thanks to one rep being wrong in that there would be Scorpio exclusive titles, which has led many Xbox fans into believing that this is going to be a new generation for MS. That just simply isn't the case.

I don't see many Xbox fans saying this is a new generation. I just see it from what I consider to be "concern" trolling posts generally.

 

[SneakersSO]

I don't see many Xbox fans saying this is a new generation. I just see it from what I consider to be "concern" trolling posts generally.

There are Xbox fans within this very thread trying to talk as if the Scorpio is a new Xbox generation onto itself! Maybe you have Spork on ignore?

 

[10k]

I've already accepted my tinfoil hat theory that Scorpio is Xbox 4 with Xbox One backwards compatibility.

 

[Papacheeks]

I've already accepted my tinfoil hat theory that Scorpio is Xbox 4 with Xbox One backwards compatibility.

Can I get one of those hats?

 

[Beerman462]

People are really overestimating Scorpio's power. It's a maxxed out AMD 480. That's good for current games running 1440p/30fps with decent settings and not much more. 1440p is 4x the pixels of 720p. 1.31TF times four is 5.2TF. So maybe you get a more stable frame rate or some higher settings, but if Scorpio becomes base line I'm bettting on 720p and lower settings which won't be missed at 720p on XB1. Your average consumer won't care.

 

[10k]

Can I get one of those hats?

Sure. That'll be $499 USD please.

 

[H3xum]

Why is this news, doesn't this make sense?

The real question is will there be trade up deals

 

[SEGAvangelist]

There are Xbox fans within this very thread trying to talk as if the Scorpio is a new Xbox generation onto itself! Maybe you have Spork on ignore?

Well I think he's right when he says there will be games on Scorpio that don't run on XB1 eventually. The no more generations shift confirms that, IMO. I can see many games not running on XB1 starting in 2019 or 2020. That would give XB1 a full cycle of games and allow developers to target Scorpio as the base console with a new console running those games better on top of that.

People are really overestimating Scorpio's power. It's a maxxed out AMD 480. That's good for current games running 1440p/30fps with decent settings and not much more. 1440p is 4x the pixels of 720p. 1.31TF times four is 5.2TF. So maybe you get a more stable frame rate or some higher settings, but if Scorpio becomes base line I'm bettting on 720p and lower settings which won't be missed at 720p on XB1. Your average consumer won't care.

Ok, that's just crazy talk. Tons of games are already running at 1440p or better on PS4 Pro. Why would a more powerful console than the PS4 Pro max out at that resolution?

 

[10k]

People are really overestimating Scorpio's power. It's a maxxed out AMD 480. That's good for current games running 1440p/30fps with decent settings and not much more. 1440p is 4x the pixels of 720p. 1.31TF times four is 5.2TF. So maybe you get a more stable frame rate or some higher settings, but if Scorpio becomes base line I'm bettting on 720p and lower settings which won't be missed at 720p on XB1. Your average consumer won't care.

What? No.

Whatever is 900p30 on Xbox One will run 1080p60 easily if games are patched.

Dynamic resolution games will always stay at max resolution.

I do doubt native 4k though. I'm expecting some kind of upscaling from 1440p or something.

 

[KageMaru]

Probably but the situations are very different.

PS4-->Pro power gap isn't nearly as wide as Xbone-->Scorpio.

PS4 has clearly won the install base.

MS is pushing PC versions of games so in 2019-2020 the Xbone would clearly be the underpowered 3rd option and a chore to port down to anytime a dev wants to take advantage of Scorpio's power. In fact I think come 2020 the only games you'll see on Xbone are the annual Sports roster updates and feature gutted FPS's.

It's already been explained why this doesn't make sense by SneakersSO but I also think the power difference between the Pro and Scorpio doesn't make any difference with support like people assume. Look at Rise of the Tomb Raider for the perfect example of how a game can support many different levels of hardware from a XBO to a Pro and up to a very high end PC. I don't think anyone would claim that game doesn't utilize and look great on the PC.

Right now, the order of priority devs/pubs see their releases (depending on whether they are PC-centric or not) needing to hit in order to recoup dev. cost is PS4/PC/X1. Depending on who you are, you might switch PC for PS4 in that order. Basically, the PS4 is a huge profit generator for pubs/devs right now, with many of them making most of their profit off of the back of its software sales.

Devs will focus on the PS4 sku as long as that continues to be true. We had multiplat games still hitting the PS3 as late as 2014, 8 years after the system's launch. Destiny The Taken King still came out on in it 2015. 2019 puts the PS4 at 6 years old - unless that system's software sales fall off a cliff between now & then, devs will continue to support it.

Great post but that was more of a rhetorical question =p I agree that the PS4/XBO will still be supported in 2019, especially by PC/western centric studios.

If X1 games are still selling well to its userbase, and the PS4 is still one of the primary profit drivers for pubs, thus making the PS4/X1 tier the de-facto base & standard for development, then yes, they will continue to focus on those skus.

The only way devs are going to be able to focus & utilize Scorpio's power is if that system winds up being a breakout success (console sales pace has to outpace X1, at the very least) and devs start seeing their games being played more on Scorpio than on X1.

This is exactly how I see things panning out.

 

[BinaryBear07]

I've already accepted my tinfoil hat theory that Scorpio is Xbox 4 with Xbox One backwards compatibility.

That actually makes sense to me.

 

[HAL-01]

I really don't think the approach Microsoft is taking is right for their situation. Considering the PS4 and Xbone are still the base hardware for their games, devs are very likely to just not bother taking advantage of all the extra power in Scorpio.
MS will end up with an expensive machine whose output will look very similar to that of the cheaper PS4 Pro, and an underpowered machine whose support will suffer due to its big brother.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

What? No.

Whatever is 900p30 on Xbox One will run 1080p60 easily if games are patched.

Dynamic resolution games will always stay at max resolution.

I do doubt native 4k though. I'm expecting some kind of upscaling from 1440p or something.

I don't think 900p games will hit 1080p 60 easily. The CPU (whatever it is) could be causing a bottle neck in those cases. I also think we'll see a ton of native 4K early on but a reduction in resolution once XB1 is phased out and a new console beyond Scorpio is phased in.

I really don't think the approach Microsoft is taking is right for their situation. Considering the PS4 and Xbone are still the base hardware for their games, devs are very likely to just not bother taking advantage of all the extra power in Scorpio.
MS will end up with an expensive machine whose output will look very similar to that of the cheaper PS4 Pro, and an underpowered machine whose support will suffer due to its big brother.

People said this about PS4 in comparison to XB1, but developers still took advantage of the extra power of PS4.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

What? No.

Whatever is 900p30 on Xbox One will run 1080p60 easily if games are patched.

Dynamic resolution games will always stay at max resolution.

I do doubt native 4k though. I'm expecting some kind of upscaling from 1440p or something.

You can bet MS will do everything in their power to hit 4k native for their first party games. The whole marketing plan will probably be "Play true 4k on Scorpio !".

 

[shintoki]

Good. Much better than Pro 1 to 1.2 upgrade. If you're going to charge people a new system, make it worthwhile

 

[Papacheeks]

Sure. That'll be $499 USD please.

 

[SneakersSO]

Ok, that's just crazy talk. Tons of games are already running at 1440p or better on PS4 Pro. Why would a more powerful console than the PS4 Pro max out at that resolution?

Cause the CPU is an immense bottleneck in the APU architecture that both of these consoles share, and unless MS changes the CPU to be a completely stronger one, which would further both increase the MSRP of the Scorpio & complexity in development when creating a Scorpio branch of an X1 build, then they're going to be sticking to a higher clocked version of the same CPU, at the most.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

You can bet MS will do everything in their power to hit 4k native for their first party games. The whole marketing plan will probably be "Play true 4k on Scorpio !".

Exactly, and if Gears 4 can hit 1080p (for the most part) on XB1, I don't see why it can't 4K on a console with 4x the power (and without the ESRAM bottleneck). MS has shifted most of the first party development to UE4 as well, so I think they have set themselves up nicely for 4K gaming.

Cause the CPU is an immense bottleneck in the APU architecture that both of these consoles share, and unless MS changes the CPU to be a completely stronger one, which would further both increase the MSRP of the Scorpio & complexity in development when creating a Scorpio branch of an X1 build, then they're going to be sticking to a higher clocked version of the same CPU, at the most.

Why are you assuming the bottleneck for PS4 Pro resolutions is the CPU?

 

[leeh]

I've already accepted my tinfoil hat theory that Scorpio is Xbox 4 with Xbox One backwards compatibility.

Is it backwards compatible though if it runs it natively? I'd say not.

When you get a new PC you don't say that all my games are BC.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The Scorpio isn't exactly a behemoth of hardware, and the majority of it will be used up on a 4x resolution boost. It's just going to be the same deal as PS4 and Pro, only done better. MS have been very clear that 'no one is left behind', and the mandate will be to equally support both platforms, again same as the PlayStation.

The only way this devs scenario happens is if a game targets 1080p on Scorpio, meaning there's a lot of headroom to push the graphics. Which would leave the current XB1 struggling to reproduce the same thing to at least a reasonable standard. The chance of this happening is very slim though, especially in the first couple of years.

If the Scorpio takes off, and a significant portion of Xbox gamers make the upgrade, then it would be reasonable to give the new machine priority. But that's a long way off, if ever.

 

[SneakersSO]

Why are you assuming the bottleneck for PS4 Pro resolutions is the CPU?

The bottle neck for all performance on these machines, PS4/Pro/X1, is the CPU. Increasing the resolution, while it is primarily a GPU-heavy task, still increases the load on the CPU. Hitting 4K but getting lower & lower framerates is very much a thing that happens even if your GPU is strong enough to handle rendering at that resolution.

 

[UberLevi]

Scorpio's about to make Xbox One it's bitch.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

218gb/s vs 320gb/s seems like a big jump right?
(204 with OG Xbox one)

 

[family_guy]

Do you see devs bothering with the PS4 in 2019?

Sure. I mean FFVII Remake won't even be complete by then. Given the market trends right now, I don't think AAA console game publishers are in a position to abandon successful platforms.

 

[Bobnob]

Will games like forza 7, call of duty have a all online together aproach between one and scorpio, how will it work?

 

[HAL-01]

People said this about PS4 in comparison to XB1, but developers still took advantage of the extra power of PS4.

Considering the biggest differences in most games are that the Xbone versions run at lower resolution, I wouldn't call it taking advantage of ps4 more than getting around the Xbone's limitations.

What's most likely is that Scorpio games will run at higher res than their Pro equivalents, but to most people the difference would be negligible and wouldn't justify the scorpio's higher price tag

 

[tapedeck]

Sorry, but your take is incorrect on a number of levels. For starters, the Scorpio won't be launching with anything in the vein of a generational exclusive, neither from 1st or 3rd party, at least nothing that takes advantage of the system's power anyway. All of the games we know are coming by next fall will still have their baseline be the Xbone version. Most we get out of titles like Scalebound & Crackdown 3 is native 4K, which will be enough for the Xbox faithful to make the jump to Scorpio, but PC guys already have 4K machines that can play those games.

Wow..you actually think everything MS has planned for Scorpio has already been announced and there are no big time launch games coming? Sorry but your first paragraph is basically useless.

At full price, and with the X1 S sitting next to it at potentially half the cost ($250, maybe $200 vs $500), with the same exact library, with the only notable difference being native 4K on select titles, which do you think mass market consumers are going to buy? If you still think its the Scorpio, then you're not living in our market reality. This is the market reality for the Scorpio. Even if they turned it into a new generation, its still facing the exact same set of problems. And in order to even be considered to be supported, they would need to outpace X1 S sales, nevermind X1 sales at launch. That just isn't happening. The Pro isn't anywhere near to outselling the PS4 - you think the situation would be flipped for the X1/Scorpio just because its MS? No way.

More assumptions..I'll repeat myself from my earlier post..

The Scorpio power gap from Xbone is much larger than PS4-->PS4 Pro. PS4 has won the install base and has more pull WW than Xbone, IMO the Pro was too early, too underpowered and mishandled as far as marketing hype and awareness..comparing the potential of Scorpio to Pros performance so far is lazy.

 

[Astral Dog]

Xbox ONE will live a few years after SCORPIO, perfectly fine, then Microsoft will move on to Next Gen.

That way Xbox ONE owners wont be thrown away so suddendly and MS will take back their seat as the most powerful console.