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[dark10x]

You might be disappointed. While we may get the token Madden & CoD game for the first year (or two in the case of CoD), most of the audience for those games are elsewhere. The average Nintendo fan doesn't really give a shit about most third party games these days, & those who do already have systems that satisfy their needs. I've mentioned this numerous times in the past, & thus curbed my expectations for third party support on the Switch to just Japanese third parties, indies, & a handful of western developers (namely Ubisoft & maybe WB Games) for the long-term.

It's a strange situation. If multi-plats were actually best on Switch (theoretically) I would certainly buy them there (carts >>> discs, in my case)

 

[Plinko]

The burden this would put in the shoulder of developers, the market segmentation this would create... I don't see this happening.

So, basically the exact same thing Sony is doing with PS Pro, Microsoft is doing with Scorpio, Apple is doing with iPhones, ...

 

[aBarreras]

hardware determines what platform games are made on.

Always has, always will

yeah, i remember when nintendo launched mario on ps4 because the wii u was too weak

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Some times you have to man up and admit you are about to fuck up. This thing needs to be rebranded as their next handheld device at their reveal event. A handheld device that just so happens can plug into your tv and be played on big screen. We wouldn't be having any of the dumb overreacting right now if that was the case people would be saying Nintendo back in the power game. I really think this is the only way to properly view this device. We will see what they do.

The complaints would just be different. That they're focusing on a market that is eroding in the west and have given up on the console crowd.

They still are giving up on that crowd more or less of course, but the messaging is them trying to straddle both lines.

I'll say it again--they should have just went with a separate console and portable that shared the same games so neither had to make so many compromises in power and size/form factor respectively.

 

[prag16]

Counter point, if they can't sell this thing for $250 or more, their isn't enough of a market for a hybrid.

If they want 3DS users to upgrade to this, $250 is likely a tough sell. We all know what happened at 3DS launch.

That said Nintendo is Nintendo so I see $250 as more likely than $200.

 

[Candescence]

hardware determines what platform games are made on.

Always has, always will

No, sales are the all-determining factor. Devs will do all sorts of crazy shit to port to a platform with a viable install base, and it'll be much less difficult to port down to the Switch than it would've been with the Wii.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

There's no VAT-similar taxes in US?

Most states have a sales tax, which is not factored into an item's price like a VAT tax is. There's no equivalent at the federal level.

 

[Skittzo0413]

It's a strange situation. If multi-plats were actually best on Switch (theoretically) I would certainly buy them there (carts >>> discs, in my case)

I'm in the same boat, though due to portability more than carts/cards. I'm betting the portability aspect of AAA multiplats is a lot bigger to the mass market than we're considering here.

Betting/hoping anyway.

 

[Metal B]

The Pixel C is a tablet on the market right now with the same hardware but not underclocked.

How long would the Pixel C running on high performance, without dropping frames while melting in your hands. Smartphone don't need to have constant performance over long time, since gaming for hours isn't there main use.

Imagine you need to pause every hour for your Switch to cool down or have a power hungry fan in your handheld. Different uses, different needs, different resolves, different solutions.

 

[KooopaKid]

Perhaps this is the best we can get for a affordable price with a system that has decent battery isn't too bulky and doesn't run too hot in your hands.

You might be onto something!

 

[jdmonmou]

Some times you have to man up and admit you are about to fuck up. This thing needs to be rebranded as their next handheld device at their reveal event. A handheld device that just so happens can plug into your tv and be played on big screen. We wouldn't be having any of the dumb overreacting right now if that was the case people would be saying Nintendo back in the power game. I really think this is the only way to properly view this device. We will see what they do.

I don't see how re-branding the device to be portable would do much to help sales. Merging console and handheld is a brilliant idea. At the very least you would have a more steady clip of Nintendo software being released on the platform since they don't have to split resources between two platforms. However, as always, Nintendo is poorly executing upon this idea by choosing not to release a console that will be in the same ballpark spec wise as the competition. I don't care if it's branded as a portable or home console. I just care about what games will be released for it.

 

[lwilliams3]

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
Undocked... No. (0.85 times Wii-U)

You shouldn't compare them gflop to gflop directly due to the architectural differences.

 

[Chindogg]

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
Undocked... No. (0.85 times Wii-U)

It's more powerful undocked.

More proof that the majority of people in here don't know jack about clock cycles or architecture. They just see numbers and make assumptions.

more proof that people dont read the thread

I hope you're not referring to me because the majority of folks in here have made some really dumb claims like the undocked mode being only slightly more powerful than a Vita, well below PS3/360. Which has been countered a few times.

 

[aBarreras]

It's more powerful undocked.

More proof that the majority of people in here don't know jack about clock cycles or architecture. They just see numbers and make assumptions.

more proof that people dont read the thread

 

[Seik]

It's a strange situation. If multi-plats were actually best on Switch (theoretically) I would certainly buy them there (carts >>> discs, in my case)

I'm in the same camp.

Though I'll probably end up buying Skyrim/Dark Souls anyway even if they're lesser ports, just for the fact that, hey, that's Skyrim/DS on a cartridge!!! :lol

Also I can see myself playing both during long trips.

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
Undocked... No. (0.85 times Wii-U)

I'd say it'll be even, or a bit better than the U undocked, mainly because of better CPU/RAM. Also Nvidia flops.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Most states have a sales tax, which is not factored into an item's price like a VAT tax is. There's no equivalent at the federal level.

Yep. And a lot of cities/municipalities tack a few % more on to state sales tax as well.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I'm in the same camp.

Though I'll probably end up buying Skyrim/Dark Souls anyway even if they're lesser ports, just for the fact that, hey, that's Skyrim/DS on a cartridge!!! :lol

Also I can see myself playing both during long trips.

Switch games being on game cards is going to make me a very poor man. I'll be buying a lot of games simply because of the format.

 

[Beerman462]

I understand shit about the technical aspect, but by all the reading through this thread, it seems it might be more powerful than a Wii U both docked and undocked.

Guess it depends on what the Wii U flop count is. I think it's around 176 GFlops.

The Switch is around 157 GFlops
That's Nvidia count so its actually equal to about 200 AMD GFlops so a bit more powerful, but at least on par undocked.

The CPU seems to be better as well.

Also FP16 to consider.

 

[Candescence]

I'm in the same boat, though due to portability more than carts/cards. I'm betting the portability aspect of AAA multiplats is a lot bigger to the mass market than we're considering here.

Betting/hoping anyway.

Really, the portability of this thing could pay absolute dividends on its own, nevermind the marketing being absolutely on fucking point so far. But being able to play third party games I can't simply get on PC on a handheld is pretty damn appealing to me, really, which is way more than I can say for the PS4 and Xbone, my purchase of the former I can barely justify as it is.

I don't see how re-branding the device to be portable would do much to help sales. Merging console and handheld is a brilliant idea. At the very least you would have a more steady clip of Nintendo software being released on the platform since they don't have to split resources between two platforms. However, as always, Nintendo is poorly executing upon this idea by choosing not to release a console that will be in the same ballpark spec wise as the competition. I don't care if it's branded as a portable or home console. I just care about what games will be released for it.

There are still unknown variables that can change things dramatically, let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

 

[komplanen]

It's more powerful undocked.

More proof that the majority of people in here don't know jack about clock cycles or architecture. They just see numbers and make assumptions.

What it's really about is the secret sauce chip nobody knows about ;-)

 

[prag16]

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
Undocked... No. (0.85 times Wii-U)

Don't spread FUD. We don't know any of this at this point. Even assuming the DF assumptions are all correct.

 

[badb0y]

$249 would be a death sentence. Xbox One S is selling of that right now and completely outclasses it. I realize this is a hybrid console but I don't think that matters to the general public, they will the price and make a determination based of that.

 

[Oregano]

How long would the Pixel C running on high performance, without dropping frames while melting in your hands. Smartphone don't need to have constant performance over long time, since gaming for hours isn't there main use.

Imagine you need to pause every hour for your Switch to cool down or have a power hungry fan in your handheld. Different uses, different needs, different resolves, different solutions.

The Pixel C apparently doesn't throttle too aggressively and it doesn't have a fan, which the Switch does.

We really don't know whether Switch's battery life will be any better.

I also haven't seen any reports of people getting burnt by the Pixel C even if it does hot.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Most states have a sales tax, which is not factored into an item's price like a VAT tax is. There's no equivalent at the federal level.

I see. It seems more likely a 250 dollars for the standard version. Although, converting that UK price I'd say there's no chance they're gonna charge more than it.

 

[lwilliams3]

Interesting tidbit. I don't know what that means but it sounds good haha

You make it sound as if I'm an insider. Lol.

We also have EG and Laura that stated that the system is stronger than the Wii U even undocked.

 

[lyrick]

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
Undocked... No. (0.85 times Wii-U)

This is incorrect you're comparing an AMD Terascale (Previous Gen) architecture directly to a current gen Nvidia architecture. People do the same thing when comparing The Wii U to the Xbox 360 (which was a Gen before Terascale) or PS4/Xbox One (GCN, current Gen AMD).

One mistake to directly compare AMD & Nvidia graphical capabilities by directly comparing maximum theoretical Compute numbers, It's another mistake to directly compare graphical abilities of discrete generations of architectures against one another based on the same maximum theoretical Compute numbers.


Pre Terascale (xbox 360) <=!=> Terascale (Wii U / VLIW) <=!=> GCN (PS4/XBO/HD7XXX+)

also

Nvidia <=!=> AMD [ATI]

 

[Schnozberry]

Best way to marry the idea of a fan in this thing, with these clocks right now.

It's equally plausible they have more Cuda Cores or ARM cores to cool. Taking a Tegra X1 and putting it on 28nm would be paying Nvidia a lot of money to cripple something for no reason. They already had a completed design at 20nm.

 

[Manmademan]

Yep. And a lot of cities/municipalities tack a few % more on to state sales tax as well.

On the flip side of that, some online merchants still don't charge tax at all. Amazon will generally tax you due to having distribution centers in just about every state, but Newegg won't.

 

[tebunker]

Guess it depends on what the Wii U flop count is. I think it's around 176 GFlops.

The Switch is around 157 GFlops
That's Nvidia count so its actually equal to about 200 AMD GFlops so a bit more powerful, but at least on par undocked.

The CPU seems to be better as well.

Also FP16 to consider.

Except we have no idea. That # is based on assumptions. Not saying it is right or wrong. It is very possible based on customization to be higher undocked.

Don't quote anything as fact until we have a full breakdown.

 

[Mr Swine]

Guess it depends on what the Wii U flop count is. I think it's around 176 GFlops.

The Switch is around 157 GFlops
That's Nvidia count so its actually equal to about 200 AMD GFlops so a bit more powerful, but at least on par undocked.

The CPU seems to be better as well.

We are comparing Wii U Gflops on an architecture that came out 2008 to Switch Gflops which has Nvidia Architecture which is completely different and could be up to 50% more efficient than what AMD has.

 

[10k]

I don't get going for 20nm when tech companies have avoided it like the plague.

Maybe it's a shrunken down Maxwell at 16nm?

If so they could increase the clocks more than what was reported. I don't get why they gimped the clock speeds and put a fan in this thing with those clocks.

 

[Deadbeat]

Undocked its still more powerful than a WiiU.

Maybe undocked mode is WiiU mode, and docked mode is gamecube-to-wii in terms of power boost.

 

[Übermatik]

Mmmmm

Oh god this is worse than 'mmh' or whatever it was from Ideaman...!

Also hi lherre!

 

[OrbitalBeard]

On the flip side of that, some online merchants still don't charge tax at all. Amazon will generally tax you due to having distribution centers in just about every state, but Newegg won't.

Yeah, it's odd and there seems to be no rhyme or reason when purchasing things online. For example, I pay taxes on all of my eShop and XBL purchases, but on nothing I buy on PSN.

 

[bomblord1]

I don't get going for 20nm when tech companies have avoided it like the plague.

Maybe it's a shrunken down Maxwell at 16nm?

If so they could increase the clocks more than what was reported. I don't get why they gimped the clock speeds and put a fan in this thing with those clocks.

Since 20nm is so bad what if they went the opposite direction and went for a larger die? Then needing a fan would make sense. I've seen speculation to that effect in this thread.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

$249 would be a death sentence. Xbox One S is selling of that right now and completely outclasses it. I realize this is a hybrid console but I don't think that matters to the general public, they will the price and make a determination based of that.

Not to mention crazy retailer deals on PS4 and X1 Slims.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1326741

Uncharted PS4 Slim bundle for $250 plus a $50 Best Buy GC at Best Buy tomorrow through the 24th.

Those kind of deals will only continue/get better going forward. Makes a $250 Switch a tough sell when the market has shown it likes the types of games Sony/MS and major third party AAAs make to Nintendo's offerings. A lot of Sony/MS only gamers would seem more likely to impulse buy whichever they don't own already at those prices rather than buy a $250 Switch.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Yeah, it's odd and there seems to be no rhyme or reason when purchasing things online. For example, I pay taxes on all of my eShop and XBL purchases, but on nothing I buy on PSN.

Eshop I can't explain unless you're in NY or WA. The state laws are typically is you have to pay sales tax if the online retailer has a physical presence in your state. There's probably a MS store somewhere in your/most states. I'm not aware of physical Nintendo presence in the US other than NOA in WA (and I'm not sure if corporate headquarters count or just retail stores/warehouses) and the Nintendo World Store in NY. I think Sony closed all their stores.

 

[Metal B]

The Pixel C apparently doesn't throttle too aggressively and it doesn't have a fan, which the Switch does.

We really don't know whether Switch's battery life will be any better.

I also haven't seen any reports of people getting burnt by the Pixel C even if it does hot.

There are no major point about Pads and Smartphone throttle, since it is a basic fact. If you run high performance software on them, they will get hot and then automatically turn down, so that they don't overhead (unless you have a Galaxy 7). This makes sense, since those devises are not primary gameing devices.
Digital Foundry talk about that in there YouTube video about the Switch specs and why they assume, that the Switch is underclocked in comparison.

Also the Switch patent didn't show a fan in the inside, that is one of those big questionmarks around the mobile console.

 

[aBarreras]

It's more powerful undocked.

More proof that the majority of people in here don't know jack about clock cycles or architecture. They just see numbers and make assumptions.



I hope you're not referring to me because the majority of folks in here have made some really dumb claims like the undocked mode being only slightly more powerful than a Vita, well below PS3/360. Which has been countered a few times.

yeah, im talking about the osiris guy, that is the first time i see post on this thread and it is to spill misinformation

 

[Xliskin]

Docked... Yes (2.5 to 3 times Wii-U)
. (0.85 times Wii-U)

Oh cool thanks

Why are you even asking this? Could you not be bothered to even read the last few pages?

Seriously?

This product will be more powerful than WiiU if not by a wide margin. The architecture of the parts are much better and more modern. So while 'raw' numbers may not seem as amazing it is most definitely mouch more powerful than a wiiu.

Sorry but alot of pages to read and I just wanted to know this and I'm out of this thread

+

I'm fine with Wiiu/PS3 graphics 60FPS

 

[Chindogg]

yeah, im talking about the osiris guy, that is the first time i see post on this thread and it is to spill misinformation

Just checkin lol.

I can never be sure anymore given some of the responses I've seen in here.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Maybe undocked mode is WiiU mode, and docked mode is gamecube-to-wii in terms of power boost.

Wtf...you response to him where he says it is more powerful than the Wii u when its undocked and you say it has the Wii U mode when it is undocked. Why did you quote him? What is going on here? Why can I suddenly smell colors?!?!

 

[Beerman462]

Except we have no idea. That # is based on assumptions. Not saying it is right or wrong. It is very possible based on customization to be higher undocked.

Don't quote anything as fact until we have a full breakdown.

Guess I should say best guess, but it is just a downclocked X1 embedded ram or not you get.

256 cores x 2 x .307(reported clock)

Really Wii U power in mobile mode is still really good.

We are comparing Wii U Gflops on an architecture that came out 2008 to Switch Gflops which has Nvidia Architecture which is completely different and could be up to 50% more efficient than what AMD has.

True I guess, but either way if it's an X1 at 768/307 MHz we can guess where it stands for the most part. Wii U power in mobile mode makes a lot of sense really.

 

[Pineapple]

$249 would be a death sentence. Xbox One S is selling of that right now and completely outclasses it. I realize this is a hybrid console but I don't think that matters to the general public, they will the price and make a determination based of that.

I think it really depends on the games. If Super Mario Switch is available on launch day, and it really is the true spiritual successor to Super Mario 64, I have a feeling demand will be very high.

Add in the MK8 enhanced port and BotW within the first few months, and the demand will remain incredibly strong.

If even half the rumors regarding launch window games for the Switch are true, then the Switch will have a library of exclusive games that rivals the PS4 and Xbox One within the first 8-10 months of its life cycle. And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

 

[Schnozberry]

Since 20nm is so bad what if they went the opposite direction and went for a larger die? Then needing a fan would make sense. I've seen speculation to that effect in this thread.

20nm was better than 28nm for some things, and SOC's were one of them. The static leakage was just too high for larger chips. The power draw increase alone would make it untenable in a portable.

 

[Oregano]

There are no major point about Pads and Smartphone throttle, since it is a basic fact. If you run high performance software on them, they will get hot and then automatically turn down, so that they don't overhead (unless you have a Galaxy 7). This makes sense, since those devises are not primary gameing devices.
Digital Foundry talk about that in there YouTube video about the Switch specs and why they assume, that the Switch is underclocked in comparison.

Also the Switch patent didn't show a fan in the inside, that is one of those big questionmarks around the mobile console.

The Pixel C does throttle but it doesn't get anywhere close to the levels the Switch is as far as I know. It's clocked higher than the Switch is when docked.

The patent explicitly talks about the fan running in portable mode. It says it runs slower but it does run.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Not to mention crazy retailer deals on PS4 and X1 Slims.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1326741

Uncharted PS4 Slim bundle for $250 plus a $50 Best Buy GC at Best Buy tomorrow through the 24th.

Those kind of deals will only continue/get better going forward. Makes a $250 Switch a tough sell when the market has shown it likes the types of games Sony/MS and major third party AAAs make to Nintendo's offerings. A lot of Sony/MS only gamers would seem more likely to impulse buy whichever they don't own already at those prices rather than buy a $250 Switch.

250 is quite a reasonable price. Yeah, that means there's gonna be other home consoles cheaper in the market at this point, but we cannot consider the power alone. Switch is something else, it has it's own ideas, it's own exclusive games and it's a new product.

199 would be amazing and work around most of these issues, but 250 is not a death sentence.

 

[doop_]

I am not the most tech savvy person in this thread, but from what we know right now is the undocked mode of the switch more capable than a Wii U ?

 

[ChrisMahoney]

There are no major point about Pads and Smartphone throttle, since it is a basic fact. If you run high performance software on them, they will get hot and then automatically turn down, so that they don't overhead (unless you have a Galaxy 7). This makes sense, since those devises are not primary gameing devices.
Digital Foundry talk about that in there YouTube video about the Switch specs and why they assume, that the Switch is underclocked in comparison.

Also the Switch patent didn't show a fan in the inside, that is one of those big questionmarks around the mobile console.

Apple devices don't throttle but everything else does

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I am not the most tech savvy person in this thread, but from what we know right now is the undocked mode of the switch more capable than a Wii U ?

It seems to be.