Spiral Insanity
Banned
So to summarize, the OP is wrong.
Pretty much.So to summarize, the OP is wrong.
It is time to read more books
So to summarize, the OP is wrong.
It's atrocious shlock and has been a problem with Square-Enix for some time. FFXII had it (to a lesser extent) and FFXIV has it too. Tons of unnatural sounding purple prose everywhere. Totally ruins the experience for me. I see it get a lot of praise too, which baffles me. Someone even told me once: "lol read a book." This nonsense would never make a good book.
Still your tongue is pretty cool though, that one flew by and worked.
This discussion was over when this was posted:
Also:
The OG translation is just garbage. THere isn't single redeeming quality.
This is where you have a fundamental disagreement with myself and many others in this thread. Like, I don't think about "having to parse" any of those sentences. I'm delighted by how colorful and expressive they are. It literally gives me a pleasant feeling to read the stuff people have posted in here. I think to a certain degree WotL is a game written for English nerds, and if you don't have that kind of proclivity it's not going to speak to you.
Also that bit of nerdiness aside (it was really just an excuse to post that Beowulf reading), none of the lines you posted seems particularly egregious to me. "What news have you" in particularly is something I'm pretty sure I've heard used in other mediums before.
So... You admit it's not difficult to understand the dialogue?
I feel like this one of those instances where a claim of pretension is a stand in for a feeling of inadequacy.
So to summarize, the OP is wrong.
I like it. I feel like that's how the people of Ivalice would really talk. In fact, I think it makes it more of a joy to read that way and I didn't really notice anything that totally changed the context of the scene because of altered dialogue.
So to summarize, the OP is wrong.
To sum up, anything that sounds Shakespearean no matter how shitty will get defenders saying it's good.
this first sentence is a great example of the game doing a decent job of readability and flower language... then the second sentence fucks up by requiring the player to stop what they're doing to parse what's being said.
Nope, I like it."The Truth is not as honeyed as her words" Doesn't that make you want to groan out loud?
Exactly. The OG translation is a "bad translation" in that it is messy, but it is more direct and to the point.the redeeming quality is many critical lines of dialogue have more punch and impact, the classic delita line is a great example. (and yes I acknowledge that the translation can be a mess)
This is also spot on. It's not unreadable, it's not hard to read, it's just unpleasant to read. It doesn't sound natural at all. My undergrad major was English and I have a degree in literature, BTW, so it's not like I'm not used to Shakespeare and more artistic uses of the language. It just feels overly flowery and out of place in FFT. It's made more egregious by the fact that the original Japanese dialogue is pretty straightforward.said it in my first post and following posts in my thread, it's not that most of the dialogue is always impossible to understand, it's just needlessly obtuse which destroys the flow of reading the dialogue.
nah, i didn't say that the game's translation was impossible to understand, it just slows down the pace of the reading because the flowerly language is heavy handed.... they go overboard with flowery language.
this first sentence is a great example of the game doing a decent job of readability and flower language... then the second sentence requiring the player to stop what they're doing to parse what's being said
Although I do appreciate differing opinions, I think it was a huge misstep to take such a boldly different direction from the original script.
You keep saying stuff like this, but it only reflects on you as a reader.
Fits better within the other games of Ivalice, though.
Even if it's not perfect.
Exactly. The OG translation is a "bad translation" in that it is messy, but it is more direct and to the point.
This is also spot on. It's not unreadable, it's not hard to read, it's just unpleasant to read. It doesn't sound natural at all. My undergrad major was English and I have a degree in literature, BTW, so it's not like I'm not used to Shakespeare and more artistic uses of the language. It just feels overly flowery and out of place in FFT. It's made more egregious by the fact that the original Japanese dialogue is pretty straightforward.
Although I do appreciate differing opinions, I think it was a huge misstep to take such a boldly different direction from the original script.
Not really, I read books often, but you're making it seem like my backlog of books should all have been written in the 1700 or 1800s.... you're acting like reading Shakespeare or Dickens will instantly make this readable to the point where sentences only need to be read once, not several times.. If you don't see how this stunts storytelling by destroying the flow of dialogue, you're lying to yourself.
Pretty much.
It is time to read more books
Not really, I read books often, but you're making it seem like my backlog of books should all have been written in the 1700 or 1800s.... you're acting like reading Shakespeare will instantly make this readable to the point where sentences only need to be read once, not several times.. If you don't see how this stunts storytelling by destroying the flow of dialogue, you're lying to yourself.
You can have a nice balance of older english while preserving the readability of the dialogue.
Japanese is also a much more direct language than (well written) English tends to be. There's a reason those old Final Fantasy fan translations are largely mocked around these parts.
This isn't Shakespearean.
It's closer to Game of Thrones.
It's just that most people who have an interest in literature often run into older theatre at some point or another (usually high school) and can read through this pretty easily.
If FFXII and FFXIV are anything to go by, I much prefer the more straightforward original dialogue.I don't think an ancient demon would sound natural in any setting. The second sentence also requires context or it makes no sense.
Also, have you ever considered that the original Japanese translation may not actually be that interesting?
Nope, I like it.
Not everything has to be gritty and grounded in how people in our time (and reality for that matter!) would speak -- I can go for flowery and theatrical happily in a fantasy setting, especially when it's written like that.
That's more aimed at other posters here who are saying "if you read Shakespere more often, you'd have no problem with this game! And you're suggesting that If I bing read more George RR Martin books, I can read through this game's without ever needing to pause to make sense of what anyone's saying.
Unless English isn't his first language, yep, the readability problem has nothing to do with the game's translation and prose. Vagrant Story's dialogue (pretty much identical to this, being an Ivalice-ish game) is one of the main reasons I consider it my favourite game of all time.
"Warping the minds of men and shepherding the masses has always been your church's domain. You lure sheep with empty miracles and a dead god."
HNNNNGG.
If FFXII and FFXIV are anything to go by, I much prefer the more straightforward original dialogue.
I'm saying no such thing. I don't know what you'd need to read for this to make sense. You keep saying that there's no way I can read this just once and understand it. That's not true. I never had to reread anything in this game to understand. /shrug
So, yeah, speaks more about you as a reader than the translation.
Yes. So good.
"Warping the minds of men and shepherding the masses has always been your church's domain. You lure sheep with empty miracles and a dead god."
HNNNNGG.
It sounds to me like she's trying too hard to be clever when she should be concerned about her friend. That's the kind of sentence I'd expect from an evil queen talking about her subjects.
I'm not saying that about the readability but to get used to different type of English dialogues... books based in old fantasy some time uses a different way of speak to fit the thematic.Unless English isn't his first language, yep, the readability problem has nothing to do with the game's translation and prose. Vagrant Story's dialogue (pretty much identical to this, being an Ivalice-ish game) is one of the main reasons I consider it my favourite game of all time.
"Warping the minds of men and shepherding the masses has always been your church's domain. You lure sheep with empty miracles and a dead god."
HNNNNGG.
XIV takes it to the point of obnoxious where many players just skip through dialogue because the translators didn't bother making the dialogue both digestible and beautiful.
That's a failure in storytelling.
This isn't Shakespearean.
It's closer to Game of Thrones.
Got it, so the translators were aiming for a pretty niche of a niche target audience. SRPG/FF fans who also read a ton of older literature
XIV takes it to the point of obnoxious where many players just skip through dialogue because the translators didn't bother making the dialogue both digestible and beautiful.
That's a failure in storytelling.
That's fine though. Nobles should definitely have different speech patterns than commoners who should have different speech patterns than hardened mercenaries.Everybody doesn't talk the same, though. The dialogue of commoners is very different from nobles. Even gafgarion sounds different from the rest.
Wut. I don't agree at all. It's definitely more Shakespearean. Have you even read ASoIaF? While GRRM has a few quirks (like his recent obsessions with archaic words and phrases like "must needs" or "nuncle", lol), overall the prose and dialogue has never been "purple", it's mostly fairly straight-forward.This isn't Shakespearean.
It's closer to Game of Thrones.
No it isn't. George Martin's dialogue is not like this.
If only WOTL kept up this level of understandable eloquent English.
There's probably a pretty heavy overlap there, but no, I don't think they were aiming for a niche like that. Again, older plays are extremely common in American high schools. The language in WOTL really shouldn't be difficult to understand for most players.
Or maybe that's just how people talk in that setting. That's how I take it.It sounds to me like she's trying too hard to be clever when she should be concerned about her friend. That's the kind of sentence I'd expect from an evil queen talking about her subjects.
I hit a snag; Mr Zoliparia dozent apeer 2 b in. Am standin @ thi top ov a rikiti ladder inside thi bodi ov thi gargoil Rosbrith abangin & abashin on thi litil sircular doar ov Mr Zoliparia's partments but 4 ol my hammerin therz no anser. Therz a woodin landin blo me wot thi laddirs perchd on (its rikity 2, by thi way. Cum 2 fink ov it moast stuff in thi Astrolidjers/Alchemists town seamz 2 b pretti rickiti) but nway therz a old lady scrubbin thi dam landin wif sum horibil bubblin stuff thatz bringin thi wood on thi landin up a treat evein if it disolvin most ov it & makin it even moar rikity, but thi poynt is this stuffs makin fewms go up my nose & cozin my Is 2 wotir.
Mr Zoliparia! I shout. Iss Bascule here!
Perhaps u shood ½ told him u were cumin, Ergates says from her box.
Mr Zoliparia doan hold wif moderin like inplants & that sort ov stuf, I tell her, sneezin. Heez a disidint.
U coud ½ left a messidje with sumbody else, Ergates sez.
Yes yes yes I sez, ol anoid bcoz I no sheez rite. I spose now I ½ 2 use my own bleedin inplantz & Ive been tryin not 2 apart from contaktin thi wurld ov thi ded coz I want 2 b a disidint like Mr Zoliparia.
Mr Zoliparia! I shouts agen. Ive got my scarf up round my mouf & noze now cos ov thi fumes cumin up from thi landin.
O, bugration.
Is sumbody using hidrokloric asid? Ergates sez. On wood? She sounds mistified.
I doan no about that I sez but therz sum ole girl down thare scrubbin away @ thi landin wif sumfin pretti nockshis.
Odd, Ergates sez. I woz sure heed b in. I think u bettir get down - but then thi door opins & thares Mr Zoliparia in a big towel & what ther is ov his hares ol wet.
Bascule! he shouts @ me, mite ½ noan it woz u! Then he glares down @ thi ole lady & waves @ me 2 come in & I scrambil ovir thi top ov thi laddir & in2 thi I-ball.
Take yor shooz off, boy, he sez, if u stept in dat stuf on di landin yule b rotten me carpets. When uve dun dat u can make yoorself usful & warm me up some wine. Then he pads off, hoistin his towl up around him & leavin a trale ov watir behind him on thi flor.
I start 2 take me shooz off.
You bean havin a baf Mr Zoliparia? I asks him.
He juss lukes @ me.
"Many"? Sounds mighty anecdotal to me, so here's my anecdote to counter. Just about everyone I know that's played FFXIV and actually read the dialogue loved it. There's a sizable chunk of MMO players that skip dialogue regardless of quality . Seems like they're using that an excuse for their shitty habits?XIV takes it to the point of obnoxious where many players just skip through dialogue because the translators didn't bother making the dialogue both digestible and beautiful.
That's a failure in storytelling.
None of your examples seem weird to me, but I read books occasionally.
The problem with this example is that it completely ignores the entire context in which this line is being said, especially since this is literally in the middle of a conversation.
Zalera is taunting Meliadoul about her father. The second sentence is exactly referring to the fact that her father is not her father any longer, but merely a Lucavi pawn at this point.
With that actual context (which is set up by the last two or three lines of dialogue that you omitted for the sake of making this argument), the sentence actually doesn't (or at least shouldn't) require you to stop and think about this.
But it's really not...Yes, I know. Just saying it's closer to Martin than Shakespeare.
No it isn't. George Martin's dialogue is not like this.