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[Durante]

If you are shooting at one direction and looking at another how would you even know it's not as precise anyway?

Because I'll be missing?

If we are talking about only dead reckoning by IMR data once the controllers are out of sight of the HMD, then it will be way off even after a single second. In e.g. Serious Sam VR TSE I've commonly kept one enemy at bay by blind fire while focusing on another, and that's just one use case that won't work with such a setup. Similarly, in Raw Data you charge up your Katana by holding it back behind you head for a while (which also rotates the controller during the motion, making the dead reckoning issue more acute). And so on and so forth.

As someone else said, I can see it being a reasonable compromise for productivity apps, but incredibly annoying for active VR gaming.

(And that's assuming that the inside-out tracking actually works reliably and rapidly enough for a VR use case, which I am not yet convinced of)

 

[yyr]

I wish MS would have stayed out of VR until next generation. It's too early, and too expensive for the mass market. The tepid market response (both from consumers and developers) to current headsets proves that.

But who knows? Maybe they have some games up their sleeve that will change a few minds. Perhaps even mine.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Patents must be a minefield in this space. How many do Oculus own? I wonder when we're going to see the end of "friendly competition" and see our first patent infringement lawsuit.

 

[Izuna]

revive

Is this even remotely legal?

 

[pastrami]

If you are shooting at one direction and looking at another how would you even know it's not as precise anyway?

When you use a flashlight, do you hold it in front of your face the entire time? Or do you leave it at your side and point it where you are looking? It's not hard to come up with examples of why Microsoft's tracking solution is less than ideal.

 

[cakefoo]

So who else is skipping the VR craze? I really really REALLY hope Microsoft's E3 isn't focused on VR. It's going to be another Kinect if they are.

VR is nothing like Kinect.

 

[Tain]

Is this even remotely legal?

Yes.

 

[Durante]

Is this even remotely legal?

It's not just remotely legal, it's completely 100% legal. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Zalusithix]

Is this even remotely legal?

You're still buying the games, so yes. ReVive just translates input/output of two different APIs.

Edit: And beaten again...

 

[Bizzquik]

These aren't going to be compatible with Scorpio ( I think ) I see something being announced at E3 with AMD

Part of me thinks you're right.

I noticed that Larry Hyrb has not tweeted anything about this kit, and he has tweeted on other topics since the Build event ended.

 

[BleedOrange]

As someone else said, I can see it being a reasonable compromise for productivity apps, but incredibly annoying for active VR gaming.

(And that's assuming that the inside-out tracking actually works reliably and rapidly enough for a VR use case, which I am not yet convinced of)

Looks like they've tested in in gaming scenarios, although who knows what kind they were:

https://twitter.com/ishmae1/status/862736140486328320

 

[Neuromancer]

Here you go guys. Microsoft's VR controllers

https://youtu.be/1nlcdDNOdm8

That was really neat. Thanks for sharing.

I can't see any way Scorpio doesn't end up supporting this headset and these controllers.

I'm getting more excited for E3...

 

[Teppic]

Seems to be a budget alternative that's a bit worse than what we already have. Not that interested.

 

[JaggedSac]

There will be a gaming attachment that adds a camera on each buttock.

 

[LukasTaves]

Because I'll be missing?

You would only be missing if the tracking is completely inaccurate, seeing how even a wii mote+ can have a decent tracking for a while after loosing the camera out of sight that might not be an issue, but I have no idea how accurate the sensors actually are or how their IK system to correct position might work, so perhaps it's indeed unsuitable for that. And my VR experience was using regular controllers only, so I wouldn't even know what's required or not.

When you use a flashlight, do you hold it in front of your face the entire time? Or do you leave it at your side and point it where you are looking? It's not hard to come up with examples of why Microsoft's tracking solution is less than ideal.

Sure, but in that scenario there would be little hand translation and more tilt movement, which is usually quite accurate with sensors only. The position of the flashlight into the world might not be exactly precise, but I don't think there would be trouble adjusting the angle correctly. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

 

[mlclmtckr]

The controller looks like a futuristic bondage device, the tracking scheme is inherently compromised, the social stigma is still in place, and there's no system seller software on the horizon.

I mean, good luck MS, but damn. Everything about this seems misbegotten.

 

[hanspampel]

The controller looks like a futuristic bondage device, the tracking scheme is inherently compromised, the social stigma is still in place, and there's no system seller software on the horizon.

I mean, good luck MS, but damn. Everything about this seems misbegotten.

The controller does not look different than Vive Controller or Oculus Touch
The tracking scheme is arguably better than external tracking
What social stigma?
Several multi billion Dollar industries, the education market, military and science is already interested and invested in MixtReality


But maybe i just fell for the bait....

 

[ArtHands]

Heh by announcing it this way and not at E3 shows how much MS cares about VR.

What do you mean? This is beyond a gaming product.

 

[Goalus]

The controller looks like a futuristic bondage device

Only if you are used to controllers that look like dildos.

the tracking scheme is inherently compromised

Only if you generally think that something is unachievable just because no one else has yet been able to.

the social stigma is still in place

This includes AR.

and there's no system seller software on the horizon.

Minecraft will suffice.

I mean, good luck MS, but damn. Everything about this seems misbegotten.

I would probably say so if I had just bought a PSVR.

 

[BleedOrange]

the tracking scheme is inherently compromised

Thats not stopping people from buying PSVRs is it?

 

[sja_626]

Very interested to see how inside-out tracking plays out in a VR headset. I've been basically exclusively a HoleLens dev over the last few months and spend a LOT of time in the thing. Yes, the tracking is remarkable, believe it. It's damn near magic. But the experience is stabilized by the overwhelming dominance of the real world in your view. Any inconsistencies will be way more noticeable in a fully virtual one. Also HoloLens is a very expensive device (albeit likely because of the internal processing and the display tech for the most part), who knows if these have an equivalent sensor suite.

Controller issues aside the benefits are potentially huge. Setup simplicity and portability is one. Take it anywhere, no infrastructure (besides a PC) required, no calibration. And this is not just room scale, this is building scale (and beyond). As in leave stuff in one room, go to another, come back and have your stuff still there (limited by cables for now, but probably not always). Doesn't play well with pure VR or you'd be crashing into walls but could be awesome for more immersive mixed experiences. Think HoloLens-esque experiences but with the ability to draw fully opaque things, dark colored things, and a much, much bigger field of view.

 

[Shin-Ra]

The LCD panels and limited controller tracking angle from the headset suggests this combo isn't designed for active games.

 

[Melon Husk]

The LCD panels and limited controller tracking angle from the headset suggests this combo isn't designed for active games.

Yeah, this thread probably shouldn't be on gaming side, unless virtual reality Paint is a game.

 

[Darknight]

Hmm gonna keep an eye on this.

Sony should release PC drivers for PSVR else im gonna guess those who want to VR game on consoles and PC will go for this.

I'd love to use PSVR on PC but its being worked on by one person or a small group to do so. Having the ability to use a VR headset on multi platforms is a sweet deal.

 

[CRAIG667]

Wow, nice. Calling it now, Scorpio will be compatible with multiple VR headsets

Already confirmed dude.

 

[Nzyme32]

If you are shooting at one direction and looking at another how would you even know it's not as precise anyway?

Because your brain can still understand the absolute position of your hands in an environment you inhabit. Obviously you won't be pin point accurate for aiming for example if you just blind fire behind you, but with some context of a target, even with several glances you can have a reasonably high degree of accuracy. More so, proprioceptive systems will give you a good idea of position in space for your hands and operating outside you field of vision. People do this habitually all the time. Amusing this is precisely something we use VR for right now in clinical research of degenerative disorders - that's my job. He is right, in that poor tracking outside your field of vision is still going to be obvious vs the expected outcome you habitually expect

 

[mlclmtckr]

What social stigma?

You don't think that one of the obstacles to widespread VR adoption is the fact that you strap a screen to your face and cut yourself entirely off from your surroundings?

It creeps people out man.

 

[Cleve]

Glad I didn't buy any VR hardware yet, still a lot to shake out.

This is going to continue to be true for some time.

 

[Fafalada]

and truly allows those objects to "stick" to the environment perfectly no matter how you move your head around or walk around.

There's still a perceptible amount of jitter to the virtual objects relative to real-world. It's - difficult to say what that would look like in pure VR, on one hand not having real-world frame of reference can help make it less noticeable. On the other - the whole world having any amount of jitter could also be a source of discomfort.

(And that's assuming that the inside-out tracking actually works reliably and rapidly enough for a VR use case, which I am not yet convinced of)

As noted above - it's reliable enough for most part - although I did not have as positive an impression of fast motions - but again that's difficult to put in VR frame of reference, as opposed to AR (the latter is easier to break )

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

You don't think that one of the obstacles to widespread VR adoption is the fact that you strap a screen to your face and cut yourself entirely off from your surroundings?

It creeps people out man.

One pro of PSVR I guess, thanks to the social screen feature, so people can see what's happening, plus allow for multiplayer games, works great too.

 

[Head.spawn]

This is going to continue to be true for some time.

It applies to damn near everything technology related.

 

[mcrommert]

Thats not stopping people from buying PSVRs is it?

Brutal

 

[LukasTaves]

Because your brain can still understand the absolute position of your hands in an environment you inhabit. Obviously you won't be pin point accurate for aiming for example if you just blind fire behind you, but with some context of a target, even with several glances you can have a reasonably high degree of accuracy. More so, proprioceptive systems will give you a good idea of position in space for your hands and operating outside you field of vision. People do this habitually all the time. Amusing this is precisely something we use VR for right now in clinical research of degenerative disorders - that's my job. He is right, in that poor tracking outside your field of vision is still going to be obvious vs the expected outcome you habitually expect

Yeah, but what I'm assuming is that the tracking isn't an absolute ass when out of sight and you'd still had very good position just not super accurate like when inside of the camera's view and if that difference is small it won't matter, not advocating on how no tracking is needed since you are not seeing.

 

[FutureLarking]

The LCD panels and limited controller tracking angle from the headset suggests this combo isn't designed for active games.

The LCD's on the Acer are quite nice... The field of view on the other hand is a bit of a fish bowl, but you quickly forget. But for gaming, Scorpio will likely work with any Windows Mixed Reality headset, so you can choose one that fits your budget

 

[Shin-Ra]

The LCD's on the Acer are quite nice... The field of view on the other hand is a bit of a fish bowl, but you quickly forget. But for gaming, Scorpio will likely work with any Windows Mixed Reality headset, so you can choose one that fits your budget

Quite nice for what kind of game content?

 

[Yoda]

Solid entry price, ugly design.

 

[ArtHands]

Glad I didn't buy any VR hardware yet, still a lot to shake out.

I wouldnt say that because this means you cant play the great VR games now yet

 

[Izuna]

It's not just remotely legal, it's completely 100% legal. Why wouldn't it be?

Oh

that's really cool :O

 

[SomTervo]

Glad I didn't buy any VR hardware yet, still a lot to shake out.

I don't really see anything to "shake out" besides size/weight and price coming down

Owned a Vive for a year and it's been consistently mind blowing and game changing

 

[Bsigg12]

This seems odd to be on gaming side. This seemed far more directed towards design and experience than gaming.

I would expect the VR headset and controller support for gaming to be talked about at E3.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

One pro of PSVR I guess, thanks to the social screen feature, so people can see what's happening, plus allow for multiplayer games, works great too.

That feature is in no way unique to PSVR. Both the Oculus Rift and the Vive have the option to mirror unwarped video to a monitor, and generally do it by default.

 

[therealbigrich]

I don't really see anything to "shake out" besides size/weight and price coming down

Owned a Vive for a year and it's been consistently mind blowing and game changing

Size, weight and price are some major factors unless he is talking ability only

 

[I_D]

Is it really that tough to make a motion controller which also includes standardized buttons? I feel like this is one of the major issues holding VR back, and none of the companies seem to realize it.


Look at this thing. How are you supposed to play Halo or Gears without buttons?
I get that the touch-pad can simulate buttons, but I've never actually seen any do a good job of it. Even the Steam controller isn't as tactile and functional as a traditional button-laden controller.


That said, the price point is hard to beat, especially if the tech is halfway decent. If it works with Windows, too, this is looking pretty darn nice.

 

[12Dannu123]

they are

They aren't SteamVR compatible

Where did you get that from??

Adding SteamVR will limit a standalone HMD future.

Something that Valve is struggling to get out of.

 

[Bsigg12]

Is it really that tough to make a motion controller which also includes standardized buttons? I feel like this is one of the major issues holding VR back, and none of the companies seem to realize it.


Look at this thing. How are you supposed to play Halo or Gears without buttons?
I get that the touch-pad can simulate buttons, but I've never actually seen any do a good job of it. Even the Steam controller isn't as tactile and functional as a traditional button-laden controller.


That said, the price point is hard to beat, especially if the tech is halfway decent. If it works with Windows, too, this is looking pretty darn nice.

None of this was shown off in a gaming capacity. Until they demo controlling a game, I wouldn't assume they are designed for anything other than something​ like Paint VR or experiences that don't have you doing some kind of complex movement.

 

[Zalusithix]

Is it really that tough to make a motion controller which also includes standardized buttons? I feel like this is one of the major issues holding VR back, and none of the companies seem to realize it.


Look at this thing. How are you supposed to play Halo or Gears without buttons?
I get that the touch-pad can simulate buttons, but I've never actually seen any do a good job of it. Even the Steam controller isn't as tactile and functional as a traditional button-laden controller.


That said, the price point is hard to beat, especially if the tech is halfway decent. If it works with Windows, too, this is looking pretty darn nice.

Not that a certain number of buttons aren't useful, but Halo would be a perfect example of a game that wouldn't need many. Crouch? Do it in real life. Switch weapons? Reach to the area they'd be stored logically on the body and use them. Melee? Do the action IRL. Reload? Once again, gestures. Use a scope? Look into it. See a trend here? VR kind of redefines most FPS actions beyond needing a button to do it. The end result is you only end up needing a few - mostly for movement rather than interaction.

 

[I_D]

None of this was shown off in a gaming capacity. Until they demo controlling a game, I wouldn't assume they are designed for anything other than something​ like Paint VR or experiences that don't have you doing some kind of complex movement.

Not that a certain number of buttons aren't useful, but Halo would be a perfect example of a game that wouldn't need many. Crouch? Do it in real life. Switch weapons? Reach to the area they'd be stored logically on the body and use them. Melee? Do the action IRL. Reload? Once again, gestures. Use a scope? Look into it. See a trend here? VR kind of redefines most FPS actions beyond needing a button to do it. The end result is you only end up needing a few - mostly for movement rather than interaction.

Perhaps this is only for simple things, but that just makes me ask "what's the point?"
Do you really want to spend hundreds of dollars.... to paint?


Real-life actions are only fun for a while, then they get really old. There's a reason "comfy couch" is an argument. Do you really want to physically crouch every time you need to hide behind cover? Especially if you're playing against standard-control players, you'd get massacred every time.


I'm of the opinion that the VR system should be compatible with traditional games, and also allow for new experiences. By cutting out the things we're all accustomed to, you eliminate most of the fanbase.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see a game being as popular as Call of Duty if players have to physically run around the room to play.

What I want, basically, is an ARMA-style control scheme, where you can turn the head independently of the body, but all other controls are traditional. It makes you feel like you're truly in the game, but you're not handicapped in the actual gameplay.

I can't be alone on this one. Surely there are other players who basically just want a screen taped to their face to feel like the game is surrounding you, but everything else is what we're used to. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm in the minority. I just know that if I there was an Xbox controller chopped in half, and each half had motion controls (but also all the buttons) paired with a VR helmet, I'd buy that thing the moment it was unveiled.

 

[TLZ]

Is it 1440 per eye? That would be awesome.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

snip

You can use KBaM or a standard gamepad with VR games.

Hell, you can play ARMA almost exactly how you described.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Is it really that tough to make a motion controller which also includes standardized buttons? I feel like this is one of the major issues holding VR back, and none of the companies seem to realize it.


Look at this thing. How are you supposed to play Halo or Gears without buttons?
I get that the touch-pad can simulate buttons, but I've never actually seen any do a good job of it. Even the Steam controller isn't as tactile and functional as a traditional button-laden controller.


That said, the price point is hard to beat, especially if the tech is halfway decent. If it works with Windows, too, this is looking pretty darn nice.

.