ByWatterson
Member
That's probably why it's 4v4.
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Destiny 2 Won't Use Dedicated Servers On PC (or presumably consoles either)
- Thread starter chillybright
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That's probably why it's 4v4.
You can read all about their design decisions (for Destiny 1) here: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022247/Shared-World-Shooter-Destiny-s
quick quotes:
I doubt reviews will matter at all. No way D2 isn't a top 5 selling game this year, at worst. The fanbase is huge and ravenous with many just wanting more content for D1. For a lot of people, any new stuff or additions will just be a bonus.
Reads exactly like Ubisoft's BS PR statement when it was discovered that For Honor had P2P.
Unless you can fix all the issues with P2P (you can't) then don't f-ing use it if you don't have to.
Wow! really?
I skipped IW and barely touched Blops3 MP but thought they finally started using dedicated servers
What's the "BS" part? They opted for a design where P2P does most of the heavy lifting while having various game-logic run in the cloud because it was the most cost- and maintaince feasible thing they could do.
Double Donut
Member
Are dedicated servers really this magical lag-free miraculous savior of competitive gaming that people act like they are?
I played Gears 3 a lot back at launch when it ran on dedicated servers and it felt pretty normal to me? Just like playing an average peer-to-peer match.
I played Gears 3 a lot back at launch when it ran on dedicated servers and it felt pretty normal to me? Just like playing an average peer-to-peer match.
Hari Seldon
Member
Wait the max in this game is 4v4? Pass.
Psychoward
Banned
Putting those billions to good use I see. Lol.
On console is hybrid system. If you are near datacenter it uses dedis, if datacenter is really far away it uses p2p.
Not sure about IW, but Black Ops 3 on PC is fully using dedicated servers. It even has servers browser nowadays.
I'm pretty much skipping Destiny 2 now, p2p PVP action is unplayable.
It's not.
Siege has dedicated servers and game has tremendous amount of connection problems. There's also the usual BF games with their fucked up launch (yes I know BF1 was better but still).
P2P depends on the player connections, but Destiny has a system where the host is rotated seamlessly so everyone gets that host advantage at some point
Ah, cheers
Koutsoubas
Member
They are funny
Not really, but for competetive play the verdict is that its -usually- better than P2P. Your own connection to the server; and the server's relative distance to everyone still can get you some major lag fests and what not. But with a lot of PvP shooters a big part of the game state/logic/tick runs on the dedicated server so the game state has a much better baseline compared to having all that running on someone's PC/console.
InsaneTiger
Member
True, time spent matchmaking can be terrible. Wait up to 15 minutes at times. Load into game then be dropped. DS are not the end all be all.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Whoa.
Pump the brakes guys.
Dedicated servers are always better than P2P, no question about it. These last few posts are misinformed
Pump the brakes guys.
Dedicated servers are always better than P2P, no question about it. These last few posts are misinformed
This reads like a lot of BS on the part of running ps3 processes.
Their netcode and physics system should be architecture independent. They should be able to simulate the game server on x86 to network with a ps3. I know why they do it, but it strikes me as a very naive shortcut on their part.
InsaneTiger
Member
I agree they are better but not perfect.
At the expense of the users. For Honor, Destiny, and COD are big budget online only franchises from two of the biggest publishers in the world. They also launched with multiple special editions and microtransactions. Cost isn't the issue.
IW has a pretty good campaign, so if you like that, I recommend it for that.
blue_phazon
Member
I agree.
Although dedis are not perfect. Like in Halo 5, the servers are sorta garbo and theres a ton of connection-related issues.
Primethius
Banned
I don't think this really matters. Destiny PvP was the opposite of competitive so P2P fits the bill.
Don't make broad strokes comments like that without looking into the context. It's not a misinformation when I say dedicated servers are not be all end all of connections issues. My point that I was trying to illustrate there was that you won't automatically get rid of all problems if the networking itself has issues, for which I provided specific examples and there are plenty more.
Dedicated servers also cost a lot of money and maintainence we are talking a few thousand servers Vs half a million to a million as mentioned in the example above in this page. It's always a cost-benefit tradeoff.
I think it's just an error/typo on their part, dude seems to mix PS4 and PS3 in the text interchangeably and don't mention Xbox at all except for in the introduction, and I believe there is just a single 360 mention in there. I'm pretty sure that the back-end is platform-agonstic because I remember reading a Bungie guy saying that "cross play" shouldnt be an issue from their perspective.
P2P hosting = big red flag for me (PC)
We can't have competitive play without fair infrastructure. Multiplayer where one of the players is handling any part of the networking or is an authority on game simulation state is ripe for abuse. It doesn't matter much for casual modes but any sort of ranked / competitive play becomes a huge issue.
When other big name games like Overwatch can provide dedicated servers even for custom games, Destiny 2 has no excuses that aren't ill-intentioned attempts at cost saving.
If dedicated server infrastructure costs are really that significant for hosting Destiny 2, focus on improving the server compute / networking efficiency and improving orchestration capabilities to rapidly scale up/down as appropriate.
We can't have competitive play without fair infrastructure. Multiplayer where one of the players is handling any part of the networking or is an authority on game simulation state is ripe for abuse. It doesn't matter much for casual modes but any sort of ranked / competitive play becomes a huge issue.
When other big name games like Overwatch can provide dedicated servers even for custom games, Destiny 2 has no excuses that aren't ill-intentioned attempts at cost saving.
If dedicated server infrastructure costs are really that significant for hosting Destiny 2, focus on improving the server compute / networking efficiency and improving orchestration capabilities to rapidly scale up/down as appropriate.
Spartancarver
Member
Good luck with competitive Crucible. P2P netcode in D1 was horrendous.
Sword Of Doom
Member
pvp is pretty bad, especially if you group up with a full team. The PVE could get pretty bad too when you play with people from across the globe with bad internet
how many lootboxes will they need to sell for that?
Dedicated servers don't mean as much a convincing gamers to start using smart queue management for their network router. One of these things is far more practical and doesn't require tying up expensive hardware.
Be nice if videogsme companies would start using better network tech than nothing or old shitty Qos with no queue management.
Be nice if videogsme companies would start using better network tech than nothing or old shitty Qos with no queue management.
Won't do shit for people with bad upload speed.
Wow this is hugely disappointing. Sure dedicated servers don't eliminate all problems, but if they are competently executed and maintained, it vastly improves the experience vs P2P. Host switching and extremely variable latency and connection stability is something I really don't want to have to deal with. Not to mention the host advantage. Cheating is also way more likely to get out of control. Man my hype for this game just fell off a cliff...
Sword Of Doom
Member
I've had a lot of issues with Titanfall 2 servers
Okami Haundo
Member
Threads like this make me realize how out of touch I am with some of the most "hardcore" gamers on Gaf. Neither this news nor the FPS news for Destiny 2 have soured my opinion of the game. Did the first game user dedicated servers? I never had any issues with it either way.
An example of what I have to deal with when playing competitive mode
https://youtu.be/Obl-mBG74Zs?t=56s
https://youtu.be/Obl-mBG74Zs?t=56s
Latency and cheating as people suggest with The Division are very separate issues. One is not mutual to the other.
I know what you're getting at, but Destiny 1's development & launch was a trainwreck, with microtransactions arriving much later. Their whole businessmodel didnt work out all that well for Destiny 1.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
>not having dedis on a AAA fps title.... IN 2017
BebopMcJigglypuff
Member
When you just want to screw around with some deathmatch and stuff p2p is ok, but when it's teams of people who are very good at a game trying to compete for real, p2p grants a completely unacceptable advantage.
I don't even bother with cods anymore. That's how important dedicated servers and custom settings (no killstreaks/increased tick rate) are for competitive league style play, mw2 completely killed the whole series for me by taking them away. Might as well play CS:GO instead.
That said, I probably don't care that much for destiny, I see it more like a shoddy MMO than a competitive FPS game. P2P is entirely unfair in a competitive environment though, if you can't see what a massive advantage it is to be the host, you aren't very good at the game.
I don't even bother with cods anymore. That's how important dedicated servers and custom settings (no killstreaks/increased tick rate) are for competitive league style play, mw2 completely killed the whole series for me by taking them away. Might as well play CS:GO instead.
That said, I probably don't care that much for destiny, I see it more like a shoddy MMO than a competitive FPS game. P2P is entirely unfair in a competitive environment though, if you can't see what a massive advantage it is to be the host, you aren't very good at the game.
Hopefully not too many.
Development costs and how budgets are allocated is not my problem as the consumer. This was an area somebody decided to compromise on and it will probably cost them at least my purchase as a result.
Core networking and infrastructure design decisions I assume were made earlier in development. It's too late to do much about P2P vs. dedicated servers before launch unless they already have changes in the pipeline (doubtful because they wouldn't be confirming this particular piece of news in that scenario).
molnizzle
Member
So they cheaped out. Got it.
Actually it will. Various anti bufferbloat guides show it. Short of you having next to no upload which is about .5Mbps or less sqm especially cake or fq-codel helps out. Anything after that is dramatically helped.
Peer 2 Peer...in 2017..on PC. I am baffled by it but also this will gain hackers/boosters a new advantage. Peer 2 Peer is one of the worst things on PC or even console when it comes to mind.
It went from a maybe buy to a no buy still can't believe a shooter like this isn't running on dedicated servers.
It went from a maybe buy to a no buy still can't believe a shooter like this isn't running on dedicated servers.
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