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[Liabe Brave]

The bolded happens just about as often as we see better framerates on the XBO, which is pretty seldom really.

I'd argue that better shadows and DOF happen slightly more than seldom, but it doesn't matter really. The point is that the gap seen in games maps very well to what you'd expect purely from simply comparing coarse stats of the two consoles. Of course every piece of hardware inside is doing something to help, or else it wouldn't be there. But it's pretty clear that there's not a significant, consistent benefit applied to DX12 titles that appreciably closes the gap.

You're too eager to dismiss or downplay how much the command processor can help. Yes DX12 reduced overhead, but that doesn't mean that the command processor can't help in addition to the efficiencies brought on by the more refined APIs.

I never said it doesn't help, I said it doesn't push notably beyond the paper specs. Microsoft themselves have said that DX12 and the command processor together can reduce overhead by about 50% in some titles. But we have developer statements that DX11 was far more than twice as slow as PS4 to begin with. So while things were improved on the Xbox side, DX12 and the hardware didn't gnaw away at the paper gap even a little--they just moved Microsoft's performance closer to the specs.

And that's the ultimate takeaway about most "secret sauce" claims, for any machine. Typically, they're about making code more streamlined (either in creation or execution), so that the final product uses every ounce of available power without much waste. Claims about some feature or another permitting over 100% efficiency--"punching above its weight"--are liable to be complete bunk, or a vastly oversold misunderstanding of a helpful, but minor, trait.

There is a category of such factors that can be potent, which are newly-invented tradeoffs. CBR, for example, really does let a GPU push bigger framebuffers than you'd expect...but at the cost of reduced IQ and effect precision. Scorpio hasn't really claimed any advances of this kind. (As should be expected--it's powerful enough that it doesn't need them to easily exceed PS4 Pro performance.)

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Yeah, reality is usually somewhere in between crazy high and crazy low expectations. That's normal.

But there is no reason to feel "meh." The reality is it's going to be very nice looking system. Why would that make you feel "meh"?

I'm not being serious. My sarcastic posting style really sucks. Which is bad because then people don't know when to take me actually serious lol.

You should cause a meltdown and just post Scorpio in a random game thread lol.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

What if they announce 6.5 tf

Then that will make it Xbox One .5

 

[CertifiedFP]

I need to know if Valkyria Revolution will play better on Pro or Scorpio.

You can't polish a turd like that with GPU power.

Plus the PS4 and Xbone versions are at the end of the day HD ports of a Vita game.

 

[Liabe Brave]

The guy was pointing out to Richard the AA setting, how were they trying to hide anything?

Actually, it seems from the quote that Mr. Tector was pointing out the utilization numbers, and Mr. Leadbetter just happened to note the AA setting below it. But none of this is really germane. No matter what Mr. Tector did or didn't explicitly point to, he definitely said that all GPU-related settings were maxed. Either that's false, or else it's true but he was actually telling Mr. Leadbetter "not all settings are maxed". Either way, we don't know exactly what settings the Forza engine was running at when it maxed out the Scorpio hardware. Which makes the definitive statements otherwise by leeh and by you incorrect.

Perhaps it's outdated info, but Ps4 I think Ps4 doesn't have True Audio:

Your evidence for this is a guess? Here's a writeup of an AMD presentation where they said TrueAudio was in both Xbox One and PS4. I think that's a much better source. (It may be the one referenced in the picture even; but I'm unaware of any DF article refuting it.)

And according to this presentation by sony, it's far less capable than what's on Xbone:

They're not that much different. Over a year before launch, it's unlikely the maximum number of streams was known for certain (witness the "+" in the bullet point). I don't know of any analysis or reveal of what the final numbers were for either console in this department, but it seems highly unlikely that near-identical Tensilica blocks would have immensely-varying performance levels. Like PS4, Xbox One's four-core block is fully controlled by the system. The one definite difference is in filtering; SHAPE does that on Xbox One, rather than the CPU (or GPGPU) on PS4.

Xbone chip isn't true audio either, it has 4 tensilica cores like the true audio, but it also has extra 4 cores. Compared to Ps4 audio block it can handle 512 audio streams *and* voice recognition at once.

No, it doesn't have an extra four cores; just look at the block diagram from Microsoft. What it has is the SHAPE block, the six processors at the bottom. But those aren't programmable, they're fixed-function.

But that doesn't make sense: They put an dedicated chip in the console, and then use another dedicated chip for audio for VR... To free up the first dedicated chip from doing audio? Given the lower capacity of the audio block on Ps4 it's very likely the reason they had to put another audio chip in the box is because the one Ps4 has is not up to the task.

It seems more plausible to me that offloading audio isn't because PS4's CPU can't handle it, but that PS4's CPU can't handle it while also driving game logic at flawless 60fps or higher (required for VR). But in any case, the reason doesn't matter. The point is, the breakout box results in less load for the PS4 CPU. It's not evidence of a Microsoft advantage for VR audio.

First DF posted that:
They mention that DX12 reduced CPU utilization on Xbone by half (from whatever it was).
They claim that the improved processor reduces CPU utilization on Scorpio by almost 0.
...Later Ms clarified that the dx12 processor isn't new to Xbone, but *reiterate* that on xbone cpu usage went down to only 50%, while on Scorpio it's trivial.

Where did you read either of the bolded statements? They're not in the article. DF doesn't say draw call usage on Scorpio is near zero, and while Microsoft do reiterate the Xbox One 50% improvement (as a best-case scenario) they do not say Scorpio is near 100%. I am seriously confused by your claims. Can you provide the direct quotes you're referencing?

 

[orichalcos]

Xbox One X.

Two source told me:its real name. o/

 

[nekkid]

Xbox One X.

Two source told me:its real name. o/

Were they your uncles that work at Nintendo Microsoft?

 

[KageMaru]

I'd argue that better shadows and DOF happen slightly more than seldom, but it doesn't matter really. The point is that the gap seen in games maps very well to what you'd expect purely from simply comparing coarse stats of the two consoles. Of course every piece of hardware inside is doing something to help, or else it wouldn't be there. But it's pretty clear that there's not a significant, consistent benefit applied to DX12 titles that appreciably closes the gap.


I never said it doesn't help, I said it doesn't push notably beyond the paper specs. Microsoft themselves have said that DX12 and the command processor together can reduce overhead by about 50% in some titles. But we have developer statements that DX11 was far more than twice as slow as PS4 to begin with. So while things were improved on the Xbox side, DX12 and the hardware didn't gnaw away at the paper gap even a little--they just moved Microsoft's performance closer to the specs.

And that's the ultimate takeaway about most "secret sauce" claims, for any machine. Typically, they're about making code more streamlined (either in creation or execution), so that the final product uses every ounce of available power without much waste. Claims about some feature or another permitting over 100% efficiency--"punching above its weight"--are liable to be complete bunk, or a vastly oversold misunderstanding of a helpful, but minor, trait.

There is a category of such factors that can be potent, which are newly-invented tradeoffs. CBR, for example, really does let a GPU push bigger framebuffers than you'd expect...but at the cost of reduced IQ and effect precision. Scorpio hasn't really claimed any advances of this kind. (As should be expected--it's powerful enough that it doesn't need them to easily exceed PS4 Pro performance.)

So the PS4 Pro can punch above it's weight but Scorpio can't. Gotchya. On a serious note, you're not telling us anything we don't already know. I still don't understand why you keep talking about closing this paper gap when no one said the gap was closing.

 

[Lady Gaia]

It seems more plausible to me that offloading audio isn't because PS4's CPU can't handle it, but that PS4's CPU can't handle it while also driving game logic at flawless 60fps or higher (required for VR).

Not everyone at Sony was convinced it was necessary at all, but the team responsible for it was passionate about it for reasons I'm not privy to.

Pure speculation: when the HDMI audio stream consists of spacially located sound objects, the breakout box has the potential to do transformation with lower latency when the player turns their head. Otherwise you have to do a round trip to the CPU plus an encoding pass for audio aligned with the next video frame. It would made sense given the obsessive focus on latency reduction with other techniques like reprojection to adjust previously rendered visuals.

But in any case, the reason doesn't matter. The point is, the breakout box results in less load for the PS4 CPU. It's not evidence of a Microsoft advantage for VR audio.

It could even be a disadvantage for reasons listed above, but we know so little about Microsoft's concrete plans in this space it's hard to tell. I wonder if they'll let the public try out any VR demos in the Scorpio at E3? It seems more likely they'll focus on the traditional gaming market and tease VR coming next year.

 

[ArchAngel]

Xbox One X

XBOX

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I hope it's matte black with some kind of green highlight. To harp back to the OG Xbox while remaining as sleek or even sleeker than the XB1S.

 

[Doffen]

I hope it's matte black with some kind of green highlight. To harp back to the OG Xbox while remaining as sleek or even sleeker than the XB1S.

Green wouldn't be sleek.

 

[InquisitorAles]

It's Xbox One X guys, believe!

 

[panda-zebra]

At least this thread has picked up on interesting content recently, all that digital vs physical and guessing names had already been done to death elsewhere.

I hope it's matte black with some kind of green highlight. To harp back to the OG Xbox while remaining as sleek or even sleeker than the XB1S.

That's definitely the right move, will appeal directly to precisely the audience of early adopters they want to buy in.

 

[Theorry]

Xbox One X

XBOX

They wanna kill gens. And at the end they just want Xbox probably.
So this is pretty smart then because peope will indeed use XBOX for Scorpio. Let them get used to it abit more.

 

[Chitown B]

I think they drop the "One" from the name. Which was a stupid name to begin with. They changed everything else about the launch but they couldn't fix the name. Now is their chance.

The One will be the base model. The "......" whatever will be the uber version.

This will also create a soft launch for a new model and start their "iterations, not generations" ideology.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I hope it's matte black with some kind of green highlight. To harp back to the OG Xbox while remaining as sleek or even sleeker than the XB1S.

I'd like this too. The green that they use on some of their headsets.

 

[EvB]

I hope it's matte black with some kind of green highlight. To harp back to the OG Xbox while remaining as sleek or even sleeker than the XB1S.

Please not green.

That's too xtreme for my liking

 

[hanspampel]

Please not green.

That's too xtreme for my liking

What about rgb light you can turn white, green, or whayever you want?

They wanna kill gens. And at the end they just want Xbox probably.So this is pretty smart then because peope will indeed use XBOX for Scorpio. Let them get used to it abit more.

Yes. Unless they found something better this will be the name.

And pro, premium or prime is imho not better

So everytime we have a new Xbox, what are we supposed to call it?

New Xbox
New Xbox S(lim) refresh
New Xbox X model

 

[TLZ]

So everytime we have a new Xbox, what are we supposed to call it?

 

[borges]

So everytime we have a new Xbox, what are we supposed to call it?

Xbox (2017)
Xbox (2020)
Xbox (2023)
...

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I would bet on it being one of these....

Pro
Premium
Ultra
Xbox One X
Prime (I like this)

Still hoping for Scorpio because Xbox One Scorpio just sounds damn good to me.

Xbox (2017)
Xbox (2020)
Xbox (2023)
...

Isn't that very confusing though?

You would go to the store and tell the shopkeeper you want an Xbox. He'll go "which one? Xbox One? Xbox One S or Xbox?

 

[Chitown B]

So everytime we have a new Xbox, what are we supposed to call it?

The Xbox? What do you call each new iPad? iPad. It's not "iPad 5". Or "Macbook Pro 14"

 

[hanspampel]

I would bet on it being one of these....

Pro
Premium
Ultra
Xbox One X
Prime (I like this)

Still hoping for Scorpio because Xbox One Scorpio just sounds damn good to me.

They already said it won't be Xbox Scorpio
The Scorpio Engine is the only Scorpio name in that box going forward

 

[darkinstinct]

They wanna kill gens. And at the end they just want Xbox probably.
So this is pretty smart then because peope will indeed use XBOX for Scorpio. Let them get used to it abit more.

No, they won't.

Xboox, Xbonex, Xox, Onex, Xboxox, Xoxox, Ox are just some that will get more use than XBOX. I think xox will be the prominent one which is kinda funny. I think One S and One X sound too much alike, which will create confusion. Not sure they want that, they need names that cannot only be distinguished in written form.

 

[EvB]

What about rgb light you can turn white, green, or whayever you want?

I hope that was said ironically

 

[spectator]

So everytime we have a new Xbox, what are we supposed to call it?

New 3DXbox XL

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

The Xbox? What do you call each new iPad? iPad. It's not "iPad 5". Or "Macbook Pro 14"

Ah yes I forgot about that. Like Surface Pro as well. They dropped the number.

They already said it won't be Xbox Scorpio
The Scorpio Engine is the only Scorpio name in that box going forward

Yeah, I know man but things can change. But nah, probably not. One thing though...

Let's say they go with Xbox and in a few years the successor comes out, it will be BC with the previous one. You then have two Xboxes, isn't that really confusing?

 

[EvB]

What do you call each new iPad? iPad. It's not "iPad 5".

iPad Air 2 says hello
i.phone 7 says hi

 

[Chitown B]

Ah yes I forgot about that. Like Surface Pro as well. They dropped the number.



Yeah, I know man but things can change. But nah, probably not. One thing though...

Let's say they go with Xbox and in a few years the successor comes out, it will be BC with the previous one. You then have two Xboxes, isn't that really confusing?

not really. my computer plays all previous games too.

 

[jelly]

Xbox One X

That or Xbox One Ultra.

I would love if they just went with Xbox and as said above harp back to original Xbox, matte black, hint of green. Original Xbox actually isn't black.

 

[Chitown B]

iPad Air 2 says hello
i.phone 7 says hi

and iPad Air doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for awhile. It's just iPad

https://www.apple.com/ipad-9.7/

we'll see what happens in Sept. But I did not mention mobile devices. we're talking computers/consoles.

 

[TLZ]

Xbox (2017)
Xbox (2020)
Xbox (2023)
...

Ugh.

The Xbox? What do you call each new iPad? iPad. It's not "iPad 5". Or "Macbook Pro 14"

What? We have the numbered iPad airs, minis, pro etc. They're not just called iPad. We have a new one now called that, but the next version won't just be called that. How would people know it's the newer one then?

 

[EvB]

Literally every console reveal ever has had somebody stick X or Ultra on the End

 

[jelly]

Ugh.



What? We have the numbered iPad airs, minis, pro etc. They're not just called iPad. We have a new one now called that, but the next version won't just be called that. How would people know it's the newer one then?

New Surface Pro is the Surface Pro not Surface Pro 5. People just do, by year, by price.

 

[Chitown B]

Ugh.



What? We have the numbered iPad airs, minis, pro etc. They're not just called iPad. We have a new one now called that, but the next version won't just be called that. How would people know it's the newer one then?

https://www.apple.com/ipad-9.7/

the mini 4 is still being sold but is legacy at this point. they're going "ipad" and "iPad pro"

 

[Samurai G0SU]

IT's going to be SOMETHING REALLY out of the LEFT field yall.

DONT PLAY YASELVES. We do this every time and we got XBOX 360. THEN we got XBOX ONE.... lol

I imagine it will be named something like Xbox You. If we have the same people in charge of the naming convention, then i do not trust them.

 

[hanspampel]

I hope that was said ironically

kind of
RGB is the hot shit for PC hardware right now
maybe they put it in.

just a different LED
and they made design lap controller for people who want to express themself.
i could see something similar for the console itself.
but maybe just the bottom and top color

 

[Chitown B]

IT's going to be SOMETHING REALLY out of the LEFT field yall.

DONT PLAY YASELVES. We do this every time and we got XBOX 360. THEN we got XBOX ONE.... lol

I imagine it will be named something like Xbox You. If we have the same people in charge of the naming convention, then i do not trust them.

Xbox U. I'm calling it

 

[jelly]

IT's going to be SOMETHING REALLY out of the LEFT field yall.

DONT PLAY YASELVES. We do this every time and we got XBOX 360. THEN we got XBOX ONE.... lol

I imagine it will be named something like Xbox You. If we have the same people in charge of the naming convention, then i do not trust them.

Always liked Xbox Fusion and Xbox Infinity.

Xbox One Y - XBOY.

 

[In Service]

Ultra is possible.

I can't see "Prime" as that could suggest that it was the most important or main product as well as the best quality - go read a dictionary - and I think they want to market it as a niche product.

 

[seentursch]

Xbox One P

P for Premium, Pixels, Players

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Xbox U. I'm calling it

U = Uncompressed pixels

 

[castaction]

I like xbox one pro

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I like xbox one pro

Too much backlash. GAming community would eat that up.

Headline: Microsoft can't come up with original Idea for naming their next Xbox
Headline: Microsoft takes a page from Sony and names their new Xbox, Xbox Pro

Threads: Lol MS copies Sony. Announces Xbox Pro

you see the gist. .. Its how the World is today unfortunately.

 

[jelly]

Xbox Projecto Scorpion

 

[spectator]

Xbox Oneder

 

[BajiRav]

and iPad Air doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for awhile. It's just iPad

https://www.apple.com/ipad-9.7/

we'll see what happens in Sept. But I did not mention mobile devices. we're talking computers/consoles.

Surface Pro (2017) which is really Surface Pro 5. I guess Microsoft may want to simplify all their device branding and drop numbers.

 

[Synth]

No, they won't.

Xboox, Xbonex, Xox, Onex, Xboxox, Xoxox, Ox are just some that will get more use than XBOX. I think xox will be the prominent one which is kinda funny. I think One S and One X sound too much alike, which will create confusion. Not sure they want that, they need names that cannot only be distinguished in written form.

Nobody's calling it an Ox (or pretty much any of those other choices)...

It's XB1X that would fuck it all up.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Too much backlash. GAming community would eat that up.

Headline: Microsoft can't come up with original Idea for naming their next Xbox
Headline: Microsoft takes a page from Sony and names their new Xbox, Xbox Pro

Threads: Lol MS copies Sony. Announces Xbox Pro

you see the gist. .. Its how the World is today unfortunately.

Which would be stupid as fuck because MS came with the Surface Pro.