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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape

Duxxy3

Member
Idk, I'm kinda convinced Xbox has 0 new IPs in the pipeline and they think they can coast with Halo, Gears, Forza for all eternity.

If ever there was a time to reveal cool new IP, this was the time to do it. I mean Phil had over 3 years to plan for this!

One of the bigger disappointments, for me, was a lack of Halo and Gears mentions. I don't think I heard the Halo theme once.

I was hoping for a Gears 2 remaster to fill in a lackluster fall lineup, but that didn't appear. I could have lived with Gears 4 story DLC, but didn't get that either.

Just seemed like MS was interested in hardware and services, but not games. At least not their own games. The bulk of the first party stuff just seemed like an attempt to tie up loose ends from previous E3's. Just get them out the door, no matter how they look.
 

zeexlash

Member
Idk, I'm kinda convinced Xbox has 0 new IPs in the pipeline and they think they can coast with Halo, Gears, Forza for all eternity.

If ever there was a time to reveal cool new IP, this was the time to do it. I mean Phil had over 3 years to plan for this!
He probably thought he could made do buying them off other platforms, like with Titanfall and Rise of the Tomb Raider, before that blew up in his face.
 
As a long time fan of Xbox I was incredibly disappointed with yesterday's conference. There's nothing which will make me even look sideways at buying an Xbox One X until maybe 2018. It'll be PS4 Pro and the huge PS4 backlog of exclusives for me this holiday.

SMGDH Xbox. Unacceptable.
 

Chris1

Member
He probably thought he could made do buying them off other platforms, like with Titanfall and Rise of the Tomb Raider, before that blew up in his face.

MS didn't buy Titanfall off other platforms. Respawn actually went to Sony first and was turned down. MS was the last chance at the game being funded/finished.

Tomb Raider was also to combat Uncharted so I don't think he thought he could live off doing that forever either.
 
To be an Xbox fan is to suffer.

So frustrating to want the platform to do well only to be disappointed time and again. People vote with their wallets though. I hope Microsoft get some sense hammered into them.
 

Mufc1427

Member
Spencer management of the first party has been pretty poor and it shows. I really hope they have something in the oven for next year.
 
You do realise creating new studios is not an overnight process look at The Coalition from starting life as Zipline games to releasing their first game 5 years.

Maybe MS Studios is using Global Publishing team to find the right studios which fit in how MS works and build them up from that point.

I think everyone knows that AAA/AAAA studios dont spring up overnight, but for Xbox to be in the current first-party position it's in then the leadership made bad decisions YEARS ago.
 

Finaj

Member
To be an Xbox fan is to suffer.

So frustrating to want the platform to do well only to be disappointed time and again. People vote with theit wallets though. I hope Microsoft get some sense hammered into them.

People have been voting with their wallets for years. If the Xbox division has not understood this by now it means:

1. They don't care.

or

2. They are not given enough resources by MS proper to run the games division the way they want to.
 

Justified

Member
I will say Sony doesn't have as much first party either. They have a lot of 2nd party relationships and games that are third party that will never hit the Xbox.


Really curious what they show, because I can easily wait to get a X next year, and use this time to finally grab a PlayStation.

2nd party is an unofficial term of clarity, anything "2nd Party" is technically 1st Party
 
People have been voting with their wallets for years. If the Xbox division has not understood this by now it means:

1. They don't care.

or

2. They are not given enough resources by MS proper to run the games division the way they want to.

I think it's 2.

Microsoft might be a huge company but I suspect Xbox just isn't getting the budget it needs to be competitive. Shame, really.
 

Strootman

Member
Idk, I'm kinda convinced Xbox has 0 new IPs in the pipeline and they think they can coast with Halo, Gears, Forza for all eternity.

If ever there was a time to reveal cool new IP, this was the time to do it. I mean Phil had over 3 years to plan for this!
If you listen to what he said sometime ago, he clearly stated that he wants halo and gears to be a big part of their line up for the next 30 years. Yes, he said that.

Prepare yourself guys.
 

Finaj

Member
I think it's 2.

Microsoft might be a huge company but I suspect Xbox just isn't getting the budget it needs to be competitive. Shame, really.

Xbox is very different compared to Nintendo and Playstation when it comes to their place in each respective company.

Nintendo is only video games, so that's where it needs its focus to be.

Sony has many large parts, but the legal division and playstation branch are by far the most successful parts.

Xbox only accounts for about 11% of revenue for Microsoft. It could be dismantled entirely and the company could still function. It would be a loss, sure, but one MS could recover from.
 

jmartoine

Member
I think everyone knows that AAA/AAAA studios dont spring up overnight, but for Xbox to be in the current first-party position it's in then the leadership made bad decisions YEARS ago.

Exactly. They mentioned Scorpio has been in development since 2014, then where are the first party titles that have been worked on since it was in development?
 

Gitaroo

Member
I think it's 2.

Microsoft might be a huge company but I suspect Xbox just isn't getting the budget it needs to be competitive. Shame, really.

They were probably given the budget to get it where it is today since og xbox to the point where investors are really out of patient to see any ROI. Stuffs like R&D for One X can't be cheap either, they should have just use those resources on first party games instead of a niche 500 dollars fancy new box imo.
 
Spencer management of the first party has been pretty poor and it shows. I really hope they have something in the oven for next year.

I don't think its been poor. Things take time to undo and to see new IP's evens studios takes time. I don't expect IP factories (new studios) from micro until 2020 at the earliest if at all.

I view it kinda like this, took about 2 years to undo the damage of the 2013 E3 conference. and 2016 to undo the tainted games and programs. So I expect next year E3 for Microsoft to have 1 new AAA IP. 2019 to have 1-2.

Then the other thing that I think was a smart move by spencer is not talking about games that are 1+ years out. 2013 spoiled teasing games 2-3 years out, thats why we didn't get a 15 second teaser for halo 6 this year,(imho).
------
However not announcing games that are within 2-3 years of launch will have negative effects on forecasts. THis E3 can be used as an example, maybe 1 new Microsoft IP, AA at that (not a bad thing), but nothing that drags the attention.


If microsoft is to assemble a strong diverse studio line up I dont see it really becoming apparent until the next iteration of "XBOX -**" is announced.
 
You do realise creating new studios is not an overnight process look at The Coalition from starting life as Zipline games to releasing their first game 5 years.

Maybe MS Studios is using Global Publishing team to find the right studios which fit in how MS works and build them up from that point.

When Sony has multiple Studios working on multiple IPs at each Studio that is what MS should be striving for. When you watch hardcore Xbox complain that MS are investing in Sea of Thieves and Super Luckys Tale and Ori 2. That is where the issue lies.

This situation has been on the cards for a while now. When you shut or spin off Twisted Pixel, Decisive Games, Press Play, Team Dakota, Lionhead and I'm not even going to include Lift London, LXP or those other two devs who I can't remember the name of and you replace them all with Mojang..... There's going to be a huge gap of content coming through.

Now I like what MS have done in the past and worked with teams like Remedy, Insomniac, Playground (ignore FH) but the chances of them making new games for Xbox are slim to none.

There is a just a negative tone that is growing on message boards right now in regards to the lack of first party Xbox games but if that creeps into the mainstream like "always online" or "no used games" then it could be a fuckin catastrophe for the Xbox brand and general mindshare.

They need to buy or build studios and they should have done it about two years ago, they can still turn this around, easily and change the narrative that is growing for the future.

The question is, do they want too?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
I have to say, I think MS has a fundamentally different view of the console space than Sony does (or Nintendo, but they are their own deal).

Microsoft seems really content to make a platform, own the platform, release profitable games on said platform and allow 3rd party content to exist on the platform and profit off of having a really good interface and online connectivity.

I think yesterday was really indicative of this. They were very content to announce first party games that look like they will be financial successes. They were very happy to show off a really nice looking set of kit with the best version of games.

They do not appear to be interested in engaging in a war to "win" E3. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I think MS is generally attempting to align as a platform creator who makes profitable content, but loss-leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

I think this explains why they are pushing Xbox 360 and OG Xbox BC. They want players to view the Xbox platform the way you view your Iphone. Everything you ever have bought or ever will buy will continue to work, so every 3-4 years you will upgrade your Xbox when the new shiny one comes out and keep on playing and buying content.

They largely don't even seem to care that Sony is locking up 3rd party games for their E3 presentation tonight. They did in the 360 days. They wanted to be the team that showed you the big yearly games on stage. They certainly had several big games on stage, but Sony seems to have 70% of them at this point, and MS seems to not care or mind because they know they will get the game on their platform. And the games will sell, and they will make money.

I think this is a mistake, but maybe that's me being a console fanboy coming out.

For the life of me I don't know why they can't go to Sega and pay for a new Jet Set Radio game. I don't know why they can't go to EA and fund a KOTOR sequel. I don't know why they can't go to Bethesda and pay for an updated Morrowind with 4K HDR graphics. I don't know why they can't go out and create a studio to create new AAA first-party only games. A new Alan Wake? A new Sunset Overdrive? There are a lot of moves that Sony makes at these shows that garner them lots of goodwill and buzz (and obviously the impression that they are THE platform for gamers) even if the games are niche as hell and won't wind up being profitable investments.

And we all sort of know that Psychonauts 2 and Shenmue 3 are going to wind up being niche products that Sony didn't even fully fund and will probably be on Xbox at some point. We all sort of know that a new JSRF game will probably bomb. But man, can you imagine the pop that would happen in the audience?

I think what we are seeing right now is 15 years of Microsoft doing all those things at their show and not having any metrics that show there is any sort of ROI at all. Gears of War 4 seems like a dud. All the games they have tried to get buzz going with (Tomb Raider, etc) fell on their face. Maybe they have figured out that IPs lose value over time and that they are better off letting software companies (ie 3rd parties) make those investments for them and just sit back and turn a profit.

It's frustrating to all of us. And I was sort of lukewarm on yesterdays presentation.

That said, I'm buying a Xbox One X, and I'm going to have a lot of games to play this year, and they will look really really nice on my LG OLED in HDR with 4K resolution.

So, maybe at the end of all of this, viewing the Xbox merely as another platform where Microsoft can sell you other peoples software (and their own software that is profitable to them) is the mindset that console companies should have taken decades ago for financial stability.

Maybe Sony has "won" this generation because the Xbox One was overpriced and had shitty always online requirements at announcement.. and was less powerful for more money. Maybe the reality is simply that the Xbox 360 was successful the last generation not because of Gears of War and Halo 3 but because Microsoft had the best versions of most games for less money than Sony did. And Microsoft is content to sell a million Xbox One X's this Christmas and slowly drop the price over time so that more casuals gamers transition over to it and Xbox One X2 comes out in 4 years when the Xbox One X is 250 bucks.
 

MisterR

Member
Idk, I'm kinda convinced Xbox has 0 new IPs in the pipeline and they think they can coast with Halo, Gears, Forza for all eternity.

If ever there was a time to reveal cool new IP, this was the time to do it. I mean Phil had over 3 years to plan for this!

I don't either. Next year will be more Halo, Gears, Forza and some Indy games. The "there not showing games that aren't coming out in the next year" stuff is always just spin to try and deflect from poor showings.
 

Mufc1427

Member
I don't think its been poor. Things take time to undo and to see new IP's evens studios takes time. I don't expect IP factories (new studios) from micro until 2020 at the earliest if at all.

I view it kinda like this, took about 2 years to undo the damage of the 2013 E3 conference. and 2016 to undo the tainted games and programs. So I expect next year E3 for Microsoft to have 1 new AAA IP. 2019 to have 1-2.

Then the other thing that I think was a smart move by spencer is not talking about games that are 1+ years out. 2013 spoiled teasing games 2-3 years out, thats why we didn't get a 15 second teaser for halo 6 this year,(imho).
------
However not announcing games that are within 2-3 years of launch will have negative effects on forecasts. THis E3 can be used as an example, maybe 1 new Microsoft IP, AA at that (not a bad thing), but nothing that drags the attention.


If microsoft is to assemble a strong diverse studio line up I dont see it really becoming apparent until the next iteration of "XBOX -**" is announced.
It definitely has been poor. Multiple studios have been closed and mismanaged after he took over.
 

Linkified

Member
This situation has been on the cards for a while now. When you shut or spin off Twisted Pixel, Decisive Games, Press Play, Team Dakota, Lionhead and I'm not even going to include Lift London, LXP or those other two devs who I can't remember the name of and you replace them all with Mojang..... There's going to be a huge gap of content coming through.

Now I like what MS have done in the past and worked with teams like Remedy, Insomniac, Playground (ignore FH) but the chances of them making new games for Xbox are slim to none.

There is a just a negative tone that is growing on message boards right now in regards to the lack of first party Xbox games but if that creeps into the mainstream like "always online" or "no used games" then it could be a fuckin catastrophe for the Xbox brand and general mindshare.

They need to buy or build studios and they should have done it about two years ago, they can still turn this around, easily and change the narrative that is growing for the future.

The question is, do they want too?

Again your not asking the correct question its not 'if they want to' its if they are given the resources'.
 
I have to say, I think MS has a fundamentally different view of the console space than Sony does (or Nintendo, but they are their own deal).

Microsoft seems really content to make a platform, own the platform, release profitable games on said platform and allow 3rd party content to exist on the platform and profit off of having a really good interface and online connectivity.

I think yesterday was really indicative of this. They were very content to announce first party games that look like they will be financial successes. They were very happy to show off a really nice looking set of kit with the best version of games.

They do not appear to be interested in engaging in a war to "win" E3. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I think MS is generally attempting to align as a platform creator who makes profitable content, but loss-leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

I think this explains why they are pushing Xbox 360 and OG Xbox BC. They want players to view the Xbox platform the way you view your Iphone. Everything you ever have bought or ever will buy will continue to work, so every 3-4 years you will upgrade your Xbox when the new shiny one comes out and keep on playing and buying content.

They largely don't even seem to care that Sony is locking up 3rd party games for their E3 presentation tonight. They did in the 360 days. They wanted to be the team that showed you the big yearly games on stage. They certainly had several big games on stage, but Sony seems to have 70% of them at this point, and MS seems to not care or mind because they know they will get the game on their platform. And the games will sell, and they will make money.

I think this is a mistake, but maybe that's me being a console fanboy coming out.

For the life of me I don't know why they can't go to Sega and pay for a new Jet Set Radio game. I don't know why they can't go to EA and fund a KOTOR sequel. I don't know why they can't go to Bethesda and pay for an updated Morrowind with 4K HDR graphics. I don't know why they can't go out and create a studio to create new AAA first-party only games. A new Alan Wake? A new Sunset Overdrive? There are a lot of moves that Sony makes at these shows that garner them lots of goodwill and buzz (and obviously the impression that they are THE platform for gamers) even if the games are niche as hell and won't wind up being profitable investments.

And we all sort of know that Psychonauts 2 and Shenmue 3 are going to wind up being niche products that Sony didn't even fully fund and will probably be on Xbox at some point. We all sort of know that a new JSRF game will probably bomb. But man, can you imagine the pop that would happen in the audience?

I think what we are seeing right now is 15 years of Microsoft doing all those things at their show and not having any metrics that show there is any sort of ROI at all. Gears of War 4 seems like a dud. All the games they have tried to get buzz going with (Tomb Raider, etc) fell on their face. Maybe they have figured out that IPs lose value over time and that they are better off letting software companies (ie 3rd parties) make those investments for them and just sit back and turn a profit.

It's frustrating to all of us. And I was sort of lukewarm on yesterdays presentation.

That said, I'm buying a Xbox One X, and I'm going to have a lot of games to play this year, and they will look really really nice on my LG OLED in HDR with 4K resolution.

So, maybe at the end of all of this, viewing the Xbox merely as another platform where Microsoft can sell you other peoples software (and their own software that is profitable to them) is the mindset that console companies should have taken decades ago for financial stability.

Maybe Sony has "won" this generation because the Xbox One was overpriced and had shitty always online requirements at announcement.. and was less powerful for more money. Maybe the reality is simply that the Xbox 360 was successful the last generation not because of Gears of War and Halo 3 but because Microsoft had the best versions of most games for less money than Sony did. And Microsoft is content to sell a million Xbox One X's this Christmas and slowly drop the price over time so that more casuals gamers transition over to it and Xbox One X2 comes out in 4 years when the Xbox One X is 250 bucks.
All of this is fairly spot on with what I think. They announce just enough to skate by and make it seem like they care about 1st party, but are more than happy to just let 3rd parties do their thing and take a cut of the profit. Whats it to them if the copy only sells 200,000 copies and 1 million copies on Playstation...they are still getting 20% or whatever of that 200,000 for doing nothing other than providing the means to bring the game to the box. Why spend money on marketing deals when they would likely spend a lot of money for not that big of an uptick in sales due to the skew of console ownership this gen.

It's a shame for some like me who enjoy some of their franchises, but its obvious they are focusing on their key franchises to bring in money on GaaS tails, while throwing little amounts of money at smaller games like Ori and such to keep the allusion of diverse lineup of games.

I don't see it changing either. I can probably call right now, a year out, that next year at E3 they will have Halo 6, Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4, and one small random game. And that's what kind of sucks.
 
Again your not asking the correct question its not 'if they want to' its if they are given the resources'.
It's both, honestly. Stooge might be right, they're just not interested in going for the kind of "winning" announcements people want out of them, so even if they had the resources they'd use them on other things.
 

Dabanton

Member
Next year though they really, really need to work on how their games are presented. Sony has this down to an art now. Now I agree with MS only really showing games that are out this year, with one or two early 2018 titles. But it's a shame a lot of the stuff they showed were holdovers from previous E3's it made any impact they could have had lost.

SoD2 retained all the jank of the first game. I was baffled when watching that trailer. It did not look ready for prime time at all. Crackdown trailer also felt off. Where was the scope of the city? the joy of exploring looking for orbs? It all seemed like confusing closeup of things. I will hold my judgement of it until we get to see more gameplay videos and hopefully MP.

The only first party standouts were Ori which looked absolutely sublime no release date though and of course Forza which is a no brainer as it always looks good. I've no doubt new first party games are coming but MS really needs something big of their own that has top notch presentation and whose basic tennent is blow our fucking socks off.

Next E3 we're probably going to be walloped by new first party content from them but next E3 is June 2018, a long way away. Multiplats are the bulk of what I buy so in one way they've sold me on the Xbox X.
 

Elandyll

Banned
...

For the life of me I don't know why they can't go to Sega and pay for a new Jet Set Radio game. I don't know why they can't go to EA and fund a KOTOR sequel. I don't know why they can't go to Bethesda and pay for an updated Morrowind with 4K HDR graphics. I don't know why they can't go out and create a studio to create new AAA first-party only games. A new Alan Wake? A new Sunset Overdrive? There are a lot of moves that Sony makes at these shows that garner them lots of goodwill and buzz (and obviously the impression that they are THE platform for gamers) even if the games are niche as hell and won't wind up being profitable investments.

Because as time goes on, the parameters and financial realities are not conducive to these kind of deals specially not 4 years in when your ww install base is at best half your competition.

It is just unrealistic to fully fund a massive AAA from a third party to only do a PC/ XB1 release.

Also, MS isn't in the biz of losing money, and I suspect that Xbox is costing a pretty penny (or has until now - in particular I do not see Forza being profitable given the size of the studio), which explains the refocus on GaaS and the unwillingness to leverage Minecraft as an exclusive (though I suspect some shenanigans in the X platform thing).
 
There is a just a negative tone that is growing on message boards right now in regards to the lack of first party Xbox games but if that creeps into the mainstream like "always online" or "no used games" then it could be a fuckin catastrophe for the Xbox brand and general mindshare.

It will, and it already is. This E3 will be probably be as damaging for the Xbox brand as the console launch was.
 

zeexlash

Member
MS didn't buy Titanfall off other platforms. Respawn actually went to Sony first and was turned down. MS was the last chance at the game being funded/finished.

Tomb Raider was also to combat Uncharted so I don't think he thought he could live off doing that forever either.
Did they not step in after Titanfall was announced to make it fully exclusive?

I think if the Tomb Raider deal hadn't gone down so badly they would have done the same with one big third-party game each year.
 

Chris1

Member
Did they not step in after Titanfall was announced to make it fully exclusive?

I think if the Tomb Raider deal hadn't gone down so badly they would have done the same with one big third-party game each year.

Yeah but they basically saved the game and funded a large chunk of it. It's only right they get full exclusivity to be honest. I'm more surprised it was timed exclusive in the first place
 

blakep267

Member
I have to say, I think MS has a fundamentally different view of the console space than Sony does (or Nintendo, but they are their own deal).

Microsoft seems really content to make a platform, own the platform, release profitable games on said platform and allow 3rd party content to exist on the platform and profit off of having a really good interface and online connectivity.

I think yesterday was really indicative of this. They were very content to announce first party games that look like they will be financial successes. They were very happy to show off a really nice looking set of kit with the best version of games.

They do not appear to be interested in engaging in a war to "win" E3. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I think MS is generally attempting to align as a platform creator who makes profitable content, but loss-leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

I think this explains why they are pushing Xbox 360 and OG Xbox BC. They want players to view the Xbox platform the way you view your Iphone. Everything you ever have bought or ever will buy will continue to work, so every 3-4 years you will upgrade your Xbox when the new shiny one comes out and keep on playing and buying content.

They largely don't even seem to care that Sony is locking up 3rd party games for their E3 presentation tonight. They did in the 360 days. They wanted to be the team that showed you the big yearly games on stage. They certainly had several big games on stage, but Sony seems to have 70% of them at this point, and MS seems to not care or mind because they know they will get the game on their platform. And the games will sell, and they will make money.

I think this is a mistake, but maybe that's me being a console fanboy coming out.

For the life of me I don't know why they can't go to Sega and pay for a new Jet Set Radio game. I don't know why they can't go to EA and fund a KOTOR sequel. I don't know why they can't go to Bethesda and pay for an updated Morrowind with 4K HDR graphics. I don't know why they can't go out and create a studio to create new AAA first-party only games. A new Alan Wake? A new Sunset Overdrive? There are a lot of moves that Sony makes at these shows that garner them lots of goodwill and buzz (and obviously the impression that they are THE platform for gamers) even if the games are niche as hell and won't wind up being profitable investments.

And we all sort of know that Psychonauts 2 and Shenmue 3 are going to wind up being niche products that Sony didn't even fully fund and will probably be on Xbox at some point. We all sort of know that a new JSRF game will probably bomb. But man, can you imagine the pop that would happen in the audience?

I think what we are seeing right now is 15 years of Microsoft doing all those things at their show and not having any metrics that show there is any sort of ROI at all. Gears of War 4 seems like a dud. All the games they have tried to get buzz going with (Tomb Raider, etc) fell on their face. Maybe they have figured out that IPs lose value over time and that they are better off letting software companies (ie 3rd parties) make those investments for them and just sit back and turn a profit.

It's frustrating to all of us. And I was sort of lukewarm on yesterdays presentation.

That said, I'm buying a Xbox One X, and I'm going to have a lot of games to play this year, and they will look really really nice on my LG OLED in HDR with 4K resolution.

So, maybe at the end of all of this, viewing the Xbox merely as another platform where Microsoft can sell you other peoples software (and their own software that is profitable to them) is the mindset that console companies should have taken decades ago for financial stability.

Maybe Sony has "won" this generation because the Xbox One was overpriced and had shitty always online requirements at announcement.. and was less powerful for more money. Maybe the reality is simply that the Xbox 360 was successful the last generation not because of Gears of War and Halo 3 but because Microsoft had the best versions of most games for less money than Sony did. And Microsoft is content to sell a million Xbox One X's this Christmas and slowly drop the price over time so that more casuals gamers transition over to it and Xbox One X2 comes out in 4 years when the Xbox One X is 250 bucks.
I take it as MS moves are made to
Maximize tre profiitiablity of the existing base and pick up new users here and there. BC, games pass, OG BC all are a part of that. A game like PUBG probably doesn't resonate much here because people play PC games already but for who MS is targeting on the Xbox platform, this is for them. Forza is for the fans of the franchise. The smaller stuff like luckys tale or Ori probably aren't a huge investment and are made from the global publishing side of Xbox. If anything, Sea of thieves is the riskiest game they've had in a long while. I just don't feel like it's as much about "winning" as people want it to be. If the Xbox one ends this "gen" with 50 million consoles sold(just ballparking) and they have been profitable with their services, 3rd party games, microtransactions etc they'd be content. As you said, this is more of a business division and not a solely run gaming company.
 
Xbox is very different compared to Nintendo and Playstation when it comes to their place in each respective company.

Nintendo is only video games, so that's where it needs its focus to be.

Sony has many large parts, but the legal division and playstation branch are by far the most successful parts.

Xbox only accounts for about 11% of revenue for Microsoft. It could be dismantled entirely and the company could still function. It would be a loss, sure, but one MS could recover from.
They're focused on selling Windows 10 and Surface computers, which they have been extremely successful at. Sony is no longer their competition anymore. It's Apple. Being dominate in the tech world is way bigger than being dominate in video games.
 
They're focused on selling Windows 10 and Surface computers, which they have been extremely successful at. Sony is no longer their competition anymore. It's Apple. Being dominate in the tech world is way bigger than being dominate in video games.

The video game industry is the largest entertainment industry in the world.

Microsoft are definitely in competition for dominance. They're just going about it the completely wrong way.
 
The video game industry is the largest entertainment industry in the world.

Microsoft are definitely in competition for dominance. They're just going about it the completely wrong way.
I don't think it's bigger than investing in software and computers. They don't have much to lose in video games which is why your not seeing the big risks people want.
 
Microsofts mistakes this generation are as big as Sega's during the end of the Genesis and entire Saturn era if not bigger.

However it isn't just that, they've made mistakes constantly over the last decade and it really all started with the 360. RROD absolutely murdered them but at the time it was also when Sony was also fucking up extremely badly so they were able to recover from that and really made some smart decisions by getting some exclusive games to really show the 360 wasn't just all Sports and FPS. Games like Tales of Vesperia (still the best Tales of game), Lost Odyssey (holy cow this game was freaking amazing!) really helped to push Microsoft as #1 in the last console cycle at the time...

However Sony did get their shit together and amazing AAA releases year after year eventually allowed them to catch up and end up surpassing Microsoft at the very end. Uncharted, Last of Us, ect. all made a HUGE impact on everyone and it was at this time that Microsoft seemed extremely focused on Kinect and the next system and so we weren't getting as many big games on the 360 late into the generation. It was around this time they also really stopped courting Japanese developers and it really started to show as many games that had been multiplatform suddenly became exclusive to Sony at the end of the generation, not because Sony paid for them either, but because Microsoft wasn't willing to help support them.

Then you had the XB1 reveal and holy shit they fucked that up worse then Sony fucked up the launch of the PS3. #Dealwithit, Kinect bundled with the system, TV.SPORTS.TV.SPORTS., DRM, Used game policies (or lack there of), always online, 500$ price point, ect. They started this generation in the single worst shape I think any big company has started in. They at least did have some games, a lot just middle of the road a few pretty good but the problems were obvious and Sony wasn't fucking up at all anymore, they came out of the gate and massacred Microsoft on all the BS policies they were trying implement and then the price point of 100$ cheaper absolutely screwed Microsoft.

They had the games too, they didn't have as many but it wasn't long until we started seeing some real huge AAA titles come out for the thing, then you had a lot of Japanese third party games come out to help support the system which Microsoft just never really got. They have got some of the bigger ones sure like FFXV and eventually KH3 but in the case of the KH series, the PS3 then and the PS4 now provide the entire KH series on a single console, XB1 owners are only getting the single KH3 game and I'd argue that if SE had not already announced KH3 was coming to the XB1 to begin with that they would have canceled that version a year ago. While Microsoft seems to have tried to court Bamco with what they showed yesterday it was still just bringing these games also to Xbox just preventing Sony from having more exclusives, not gaining any exclusives themselves.

Still, Microsoft did try to come back and they did a pretty good job. EA Access, dropping the kinect, lowering the price, bundling the system, backwards compatibility, ect. They have tried to win people back largely by giving people what they want but it seems pretty clear the fate of the system and the gaming division wasn't entirely in their hands. The closure of Lionhead and cancellation of Fable Legends was the first sign (okay it wasn't the 'first' but it was the first time we knew something really was wrong here) that something wasn't right. That game was pretty much finished and by beta players on gaf and elsewhere said the game wasn't amazing but it wasn't terrible either, it was fun! They had virtually no real reason to cancel it and stop development but it seems pretty clear to me someone made a call and that they didn't want to waste any more money on a game that might not make back anywhere near as much money as they put into it.

Then you have Scalebound, canceled literally out of freaking no where which also seemed to have been decided because of the amount of money needed to get it finished. Microsoft at this point wasn't about taking risks anymore and it seems at some point they made a decision. Xbox as a brand mattered but the games, the system, and its future didn't really matter as much as it did before.

Suddenly Microsoft was putting first party games day and date on PC and not caring where you played them, to us sure it seemed like a really awesome consumer friendly decision but it was also really weird right? Why buy an Xbox if all of the first party titles will end up on PC anyway? At this point they didn't have any actual exclusives for the XB1 either so it just seemed strange to go all in on PC NOW when they are struggling to sell the system and compete with Sony.

Then finally you've got The Xbox One X. A system announced last year at E3 far in advance as if it was some big game changer! It seemed like a notice to anyone who was having doubts about Microsoft last year. 'Sure, we aren't doing so great now but next year? Next year we've got SCORPIO and its going to change everything!' so that largely dominated the conversation for the last year as many diehard Xbox fans and others believed that Microsoft really had something with this system, it was going to be something amazing. Maybe it would play PC games? Maybe they've got some secret projects being worked on for this new system? Maybe its got some exclusive features that they are keeping hidden? It was a hell of a time to be excited and why shouldn't everyone be? It was going to be waaay more powerful then the PS4 Pro and on top of that Microsoft was talking it up like it was a new system so clearly they've got all their ducks in a row on this thing right?

Then yesterday happened and all of the hype, all of the talking points, all of it died in a single hour and a half. The name was awful, its powerful to be sure but their aren't any secret games being developed for it, no secret features, no PC compatibility, its just an Xbox One with better hardware. It's the PS4 Pro except better specs. It's also back at the original Xbox One's price, 500$ which was one of the biggest things that absolutely screwed Microsoft from the get go at the beginning of this generation.

It's not just that the system itself isn't anything special, despite announcing numerous games yesterday very few (if any) are true exclusives, so the Microsoft showcase was largely a third party showcase with timed exclusives on Xbox... oh and PC where indies really thrive. It's not even that Microsoft was playing it safe, they really just had next to nothing to show from first party studios. It's much more obvious this year then last year because Microsoft actually had a good presentation overall. They showed game after game after game much like Sony did last year but the quality of each title is what brought into question what exactly was going on. If this had been last years show, it would've been a 9/10 for most people.

However, the Xbox One X is the very thing that they were pushing from the get go this year. At the start of the conference to the end of the conference EVERYTHING was about The X and what they showed was mostly indie games that will never really take advantage of the hardware. They had some third parties sure but none of the games are really going to look THAT much more impressive and even then nothing.is.exclusive. Either its also on PC, or multi-platform in general. The decision last year to start putting all first party titles on PC has only hurt them this year by making the Xbox One X seem even less important overall because of that.

I think Microsoft has made a decision. The Xbox brand itself is important to the company but the gaming division as a whole and competing in a console generation aren't. They want safe titles, they don't want risks, they don't want anymore canceled games, or to waste anymore money. The gaming division has always been rumored to be bleeding money for years starting with the RRoD and to me it looks like the Xbox One X has also just been a huge was of time, money, and resources which doesn't look good for Microsoft at all let alone the gaming division.

Then briefly since this is already very very long I want to talk about the future. What is next for Xbox after the Xbox One X? They have spent well over a year of time, money, and development resources dedicated to putting this new system out but while they are doing so they certainly must realize that were already past the halfway point into this generation, this system needed to come out a year ago to really be relevant. The next generation of systems could come out within the next few years so was it really the best idea to spend all of this work on The X instead of investing that into the future of the brand as a whole? I get that they just wanted to make a system based off most of the faults the original system had but It seems to me they've gone to far and spent to much time into it and I worry that they won't be properly prepared for the next generation because of it.

I'm not sure what Microsoft is planning going forward, none of us do but it seems to me that they seem to care less and less about the gaming division as time as gone on and its not getting better by a long shot. It's not as if they are going to go the way of Sega, they are a much bigger company then that but if something doesn't change I don't see Microsoft being a key leader within the gaming industry for much longer. I would like to see them turn this all around honestly, It was good to see Microsoft humble again in the past few years and this industry NEEDS competition but as its stands now things are not looking good right now.
 

Zeta Oni

Member
It will, and it already is. This E3 will be probably be as damaging for the Xbox brand as the console launch was.

lol just go look at r/xboxone.

Even the subreddit of all places is starting to pick up on it.

The E3 charts from this thread are currently one of the most viewed over there, and the highest rated posts from the last 48 hours are people arguing about Xbox One X pricing and the announcement for OG Xbox BC.

and I guarantee you the outlook is only going to get worse tonight.
 
I have to say, I think MS has a fundamentally different view of the console space than Sony does (or Nintendo, but they are their own deal).

Microsoft seems really content to make a platform, own the platform, release profitable games on said platform and allow 3rd party content to exist on the platform and profit off of having a really good interface and online connectivity.

I think yesterday was really indicative of this. They were very content to announce first party games that look like they will be financial successes. They were very happy to show off a really nice looking set of kit with the best version of games.

They do not appear to be interested in engaging in a war to "win" E3. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I think MS is generally attempting to align as a platform creator who makes profitable content, but loss-leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

I think this explains why they are pushing Xbox 360 and OG Xbox BC. They want players to view the Xbox platform the way you view your Iphone. Everything you ever have bought or ever will buy will continue to work, so every 3-4 years you will upgrade your Xbox when the new shiny one comes out and keep on playing and buying content.

They largely don't even seem to care that Sony is locking up 3rd party games for their E3 presentation tonight. They did in the 360 days. They wanted to be the team that showed you the big yearly games on stage. They certainly had several big games on stage, but Sony seems to have 70% of them at this point, and MS seems to not care or mind because they know they will get the game on their platform. And the games will sell, and they will make money.

I think this is a mistake, but maybe that's me being a console fanboy coming out.

For the life of me I don't know why they can't go to Sega and pay for a new Jet Set Radio game. I don't know why they can't go to EA and fund a KOTOR sequel. I don't know why they can't go to Bethesda and pay for an updated Morrowind with 4K HDR graphics. I don't know why they can't go out and create a studio to create new AAA first-party only games. A new Alan Wake? A new Sunset Overdrive? There are a lot of moves that Sony makes at these shows that garner them lots of goodwill and buzz (and obviously the impression that they are THE platform for gamers) even if the games are niche as hell and won't wind up being profitable investments.

And we all sort of know that Psychonauts 2 and Shenmue 3 are going to wind up being niche products that Sony didn't even fully fund and will probably be on Xbox at some point. We all sort of know that a new JSRF game will probably bomb. But man, can you imagine the pop that would happen in the audience?

I think what we are seeing right now is 15 years of Microsoft doing all those things at their show and not having any metrics that show there is any sort of ROI at all. Gears of War 4 seems like a dud. All the games they have tried to get buzz going with (Tomb Raider, etc) fell on their face. Maybe they have figured out that IPs lose value over time and that they are better off letting software companies (ie 3rd parties) make those investments for them and just sit back and turn a profit.

It's frustrating to all of us. And I was sort of lukewarm on yesterdays presentation.

That said, I'm buying a Xbox One X, and I'm going to have a lot of games to play this year, and they will look really really nice on my LG OLED in HDR with 4K resolution.

So, maybe at the end of all of this, viewing the Xbox merely as another platform where Microsoft can sell you other peoples software (and their own software that is profitable to them) is the mindset that console companies should have taken decades ago for financial stability.

Maybe Sony has "won" this generation because the Xbox One was overpriced and had shitty always online requirements at announcement.. and was less powerful for more money. Maybe the reality is simply that the Xbox 360 was successful the last generation not because of Gears of War and Halo 3 but because Microsoft had the best versions of most games for less money than Sony did. And Microsoft is content to sell a million Xbox One X's this Christmas and slowly drop the price over time so that more casuals gamers transition over to it and Xbox One X2 comes out in 4 years when the Xbox One X is 250 bucks.

I think it is partially this for the time being. Honestly, it seems like Xbox is fixing their platform and adopting it to Windows 10, making sure XBL is stable enough for the future of services and such. They are trying to create a platform to keep players into it. Mostly I think they are playing the long game for their next gen system in 2020. Whatever system they will make and release by that point will probably have Xbox one BC, Xbox 360 bc, and og Xbox bc. Will probably have basically the same OS with some new features to accommodate the better hardware and such.

I think then they will focus on getting better 1p games and we could see a better push like we did during the 360 days. Spencer has said as such but thats going to take time as the first party publishers need to pivot and change what they were already adapting to for the original vision of the xbox one. I think this is easier for Sony to do because its more natural to them with their studios and plus Sony is very well in with the Japanese crowd of developers.

Even if they did announce a new Perfect Dark or Banjo, that wont be enough to persuade people off a PS4, its too late for that. It isnt happening when this gen only has 3 years left. They might as well buckle down with their platform fir and try and prepare for the next gen and figure out how to get players off Playstation and onto Xbox. I think we were all expecting Xbox one X for appeal to people who were gaming on PS4 but even Spencer said he is targeting hardcore gamers for this.

Overall I give the conference a B. Nothing too stellar but it was not terrible and this was far from the downs which was the 2013 conference.
 
Idk, I'm kinda convinced Xbox has 0 new IPs in the pipeline and they think they can coast with Halo, Gears, Forza for all eternity.

If ever there was a time to reveal cool new IP, this was the time to do it. I mean Phil had over 3 years to plan for this!

Well i sure hope not man. I mean clearly next year means the release of Halo 6 and very likely Forza Horizon 4, but that can't be all.

I can understand very well why people think this was the time to show new IP, but then you always have the answer to that on other forums where people say that in these three years a lot of mistakes had to be corrected. There's some truth to that, however it's not like Phil is on his own that has to correct all the mistakes. He has a big team that helps him undoubtedly. So in those three years several games were canned and studios closed........and by the looks of it no new studios established at all.

But somehow now that Xbox is ''great'' again they are going to completely turn around and show full dedication to first party? Yeah i am not holding my breath. It would be good that if they indeed start to work on this that they keep the people informed. If they partner with a new studio, tweet the gamers about it. One thing is for sure, any kind of tweet like that at this point is needed.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Because as time goes on, the parameters and financial realities are not conducive to these kind of deals specially not 4 years in when your ww install base is at best half your competition.

It is just unrealistic to fully fund a massive AAA from a third party to only do a PC/ XB1 release.

Also, MS isn't in the biz of losing money, and I suspect that Xbox is costing a pretty penny (or has until now - in particular I do not see Forza being profitable given the size of the studio), which explains the refocus on GaaS and the unwillingness to leverage Minecraft as an exclusive (though I suspect some shenanigans in the X platform thing).

Oh no. I completely and totally agree with you.

I think the reality is Sony has all of their eggs in the Playstation basket. Their existence as a company is basically 1) Insurance 2) Playstation.

As a result of this the upper brass are 1) Extremely invested in the brand 2) Willing to throw money around to build mindshare. 3) Even if 2 doesn't net results, they don't care because they can't risk the division falling behind competition.

I think for Microsoft they have this weird division that exists that is tethered to a Television. They only ever created Xbox in order to prevent Sony from owning the living room and replacing Windows as the way people get their content. Then mobile happened and Apple and Google stole Microsofts wallet out from under them. Sony is a much smaller company than they were in 2000 and consumer electronics is not a great market to be in any longer. The reason for Xbox's creation no longer exists 17 years later, but Phil and Co smartly pivoted the system towards a content platform that fits within the current MS framework as a company.

Microsoft now views software as a service that they can continue to monitize and Xbox now fits well into the mold as a service provider that can rent movies to people, sell them ads and get them licensing fees for games.

So, it's not a bad place for Microsoft to be, and to have 50 million active users out there renting movies, buying TV shows, buying 3rd party games is fantastic.

But, upper brass at Microsoft are not willing to throw money at Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Tomb Raider or these other *very* high profile money pits. And those three games were pretty much designed to be major hits that should have sold extremely well to a modern console userbase. If games with that pedigree aren't succesfull than MS has a compelling reason to not throw money at niche games to make a bunch of people on Neogaf squeel on a random Sunday in June.

So, I think Microsoft is snakebit and learned some lessons over the last few years that are probably true, but painful for us hardcore gamers.

1) Playstation 4 is a success because it launched with better hardware at a lower price.

2) Xbox One is making money.

3) Every time they go out and try and buy marketshare with new games aimed at a core audience, it's an abysmal failure. The 3rd party marketing deals are likely not why games sold better on the 360. The 360 was a success for reasons unrelated to niche and/or exclusive games (see number 1) and buying those games now is doing nothing to change the sales dynamic.

4) Xbox is being marketed as a platform not a console now. Which means, focusing on getting Xbox 360 games and Xbox games on the platform is more important than getting new exclusive games because they want you to view Xbox and Xbox Live as a platform that has existed since 2001.

5) We will continue to see Microsoft continue to treat the console space as an investment, and divisions (first party developers and IPs) that do not make money are going to be cut. Video games are a well-established market and Xbox is a very well established brand and no longer needs help to establish itself in the eyes of gamers as viable.

6) They are probably going to move to iterative consoles. Even if there is a "next gen" console, it will likely be backwards compatible day 1 with Xbox, 360 and One.

7) Phil and the Xbox team are working towards turning a profit and growing the profit base of the platform. They have likely realized after the last 24 months that there is *nothing* they can do with software to move people to Xbox One. And the Xbox One X is a hardcore enthusiast machine that exists primarily to keep their biggest spending customers from moving to the PS4 Pro. Not necessarily to attract new gamers, though they probably are aware that there are people on the PS4 now who will jump over to get the best version of 3rd party games.

8) You can likely expect to see Xbox maintain a hardware edge moving forward even if it puts them above competitors on price, as MS will maintain a sub 300 dollar SKU and a plus 400 dollar SKU at all times.

I think Microsoft is probably making the correct long-term decision, because there have been a shitload of companies that have gone out of business trying to "gain marketshare" and failed.
 

Fiber

Member
You will see.
You gonna learn, when 2013, when Don Mattrick was Head of Xbox, everything was fine, the drm crying bullshit is just a statement where came from peasants.

The Xbox One came out with hell out of a Exclusive games, just look at 2013 E3.

Everything was fine, and when phil spencer came out, we met Windows 10.

And Bam!. Xbox is done.

Don Mattrick was fine.
 

jeffram

Member
I think Microsoft is probably making the correct long-term decision, because there have been a shitload of companies that have gone out of business trying to "gain marketshare" and failed.
You lost me here. There hasn't been a successful console that didn't go out there and make moves to gain market share.

In today's business, if you're not growing, you're dying. Microsoft gives what 8% dividend on it's shares? xbox needs to GROW to not get cut.
 
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