-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
PackAPunchedMick
Member
Imagine someone telling you this time last year that a gran turismo game would sound better than forza Motorsport, they would have you sectioned.
.....
https://youtu.be/6mo2q35i_so
.....
https://youtu.be/6mo2q35i_so
God, that Mustang looks good.
(GTS)
(F6)
Edit: I'd forgotten how much of a pain/joy this track is. (Forza 6)
That's something I'm wondering about whichever tracks they carry over from Forza 6 to 7; If they're making an effort for a new round of "upgrades" or if they're mostly bringing over what they have.
Forza 6's assets would be an acceptable start with the new atmospherics. Thankfully at least one legacy track (Suzuka) is a fresh start from a new laser scan, which is encouraging.
D'ultimate
Member
Does GT Sport leave tire marks on burnouts or oversteer? I haven't noticed it in any of the gifs I've seen.
I think they were added one or two patches ago, though they're more subtle than you might expect. If someone in the beta can spot-check me, I'm just going based on what I've picked up in conversation. Originally it was definitely missing though, so older gifs wouldn't have it.
The easiest way to find out would be to do donuts.
Darkangel
Member
Sometimes the cars themselves can look really nice when the lighting is just right, but overall I would say I'm unimpressed with the way GTS looks. Polyphony seems to have a lot of highs and lows when it comes to visuals, whereas Turn 10 provides a more consistent experience (which I think ends up looking better overall).
It doesn't look like there's any changes other than extra lights on the stands. I guess as it was laser scanned for FM5 the biggest change will be better textures.
TheAdmiester
Member
Yeah, it really still doesn't.
Especially compared to FM7, which sounds incredible.
Insane Metal
Member
I have seen Forza 7's HDR videos from gamersyde. And the latest GTS videos too.
There's no doubt. Forza 7 in 4K looks absolutely stunning and a huge step up from everything else. Holy shit.
There's no doubt. Forza 7 in 4K looks absolutely stunning and a huge step up from everything else. Holy shit.
They both sound really good. GT Sport has made a huge step in the right direction recently.
GT Sport: Great driveline whine and exhaust backfires/pops/crackles, but no reverb. Exhaust note could be meatier.
Forza 6: Great V8 engine sound and track reverb, but no driveline whine or exhaust pops/crackles. The updated Shelby GT 350R sounds much better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh_DACMI4C8
Massive update: Now it is laser scanned. Other than that, wide spread updates: better crowds, improved grass colored after the texture and with varying height, 3D trees and 3D bushes and seasons/snow variants.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
I think it does especially the exhaust crackles, pops and the whine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zceE_lQsSQ
pixelation
Member
Yes and i just don't get it... they should give me the option to disable the trees if they're gonna be that ugly, they sour the visual spectacle for me.
l2ounD
Member
Dan said that about 5.. Laser scanned, all the different surfaces correct, the graffiti correct.. blah blah typical promotional B.S. I believe this years fun word is photogrammetry
Is there new footage? I'd have to see it to believe it first.
Risk Breaker
Member
I actually think vegetation looks great to pretty good in all main racing games. Really good looking and detailed trees are way too expensive to render for 60 FPS games that need to have tons of them visible almost at all times (or any racing game I'd say, unless you're Evo
) for what little they matter. Give me amazing cars with great materials and cockpits, give me the best lighting you can, give me good weather effects, give me some other track detail to give it life and I couldn't care less about the damn trees
very fresh GIF
Damn, Sony please make a pro patch for DC!
Can't we start a petition or something?
Sebmugi
Member
I'm afraid that sony will not hear us even with a petition .. we must wait for the next game of evo ..
Totally agree
The new patch 1.07 for the beta of GT sport improves a little the shadows on the trees and the other elements of the scenery, video of Nûrb in upload ..
Small GIF pending ^^
Fresquito was talking about the 'Ring upgrades in pCARS 2, not FM7.
dr guildo
Member
Because of you and these amazing shots, I replayed the game this last night, I was blown away by the composition of the visuals, clearly the best looking racing game for me. So impressive during weather condition, no game can compete.
They would've still been wrong. GTS does a lot of things better than Forza, sound is definitely not one of them.
dr guildo
Member
I was begging for the same thing this night, during photomode, when the image is supersampled, you just imagine what it would give on Pro with 1800p chekerboard downsampled to 1080p. It would be the best looking game on the planet...
A spot of housekeeping: full dynamics is weather and time of day. I have never said Forza Motorsport 7 does not have dynamic weather in isolation.
Now consider that a PS3, supposedly the weaker last-generation console (although I personally don't think it is), had fully dynamic environmental effects from the very first iteration, Gran Turismo 5. At the time I recall the many screens and GIF's on this very forum impressing the majority people by the progress made in the series and on console. I'll say that again just to be very clear, CONSOLE.
Today, Turn 10 are developing on PC as a primary format yet they seem to be unable to deliver the fully dynamic experience we got on a lower-power console in 2010. I expect full dynamics as standard in this generation consoles. That's why I've said before both Turn 10 and Polyphony Digital have failed with these releases.
Yet there's a third-party developer that delivers full dynamics. Figure that one out!
I'd like to add and bet that, if this is a pre-baked switching method, the dynamic weather conceals the fake change of time. I expect clear race days to have no change of time at all because it would be too obvious it's not dynamic but I'm waiting for more information on that one.
Let's face it, if Forza Motorsport 7 did have full dynamics we would have known that massive feature detail from the conference, not in an article, especially since Gran Turismo is in an even worse spot.
Would you not reasonably expect a game developed on PC, also for the most powerful console later this year, to have at the very least a full compliment of last-generation features that directly affect gameplay? Or are PC's and the XBOX ONE X not capable enough?
Now consider that a PS3, supposedly the weaker last-generation console (although I personally don't think it is), had fully dynamic environmental effects from the very first iteration, Gran Turismo 5. At the time I recall the many screens and GIF's on this very forum impressing the majority people by the progress made in the series and on console. I'll say that again just to be very clear, CONSOLE.
Today, Turn 10 are developing on PC as a primary format yet they seem to be unable to deliver the fully dynamic experience we got on a lower-power console in 2010. I expect full dynamics as standard in this generation consoles. That's why I've said before both Turn 10 and Polyphony Digital have failed with these releases.
Yet there's a third-party developer that delivers full dynamics. Figure that one out!
My citation implies Turn 10 should be capable of achieving anything from a resource perspective yet here we are and the lighting engine, although improved over previous Turn 10 games (thanks PlayGround Games), is still not at the level I would expect. My comment about Gran Turismo relates to the studios phenomenal lighting engine producing images Turn 10 seem unable to match. Gran Turismo has always had an organic natural look. That's just the way it is.
I still haven't got a clue what this has to do with the discussion. My TV has nothing to do with Turn 10's development of a videogame. For reference though, I've never needed to change my TV settings so my considerations are always out-of-the-box consistent. So, please, put he brakes on this one.
Yeah...which clearly indicates the game does not have full dynamics. The Verge details dynamic weather and Eurogamer originally stated dynamic time of day but they now consider it is not, more of a pre-baked switching method, which is not dynamic.
I'd like to add and bet that, if this is a pre-baked switching method, the dynamic weather conceals the fake change of time. I expect clear race days to have no change of time at all because it would be too obvious it's not dynamic but I'm waiting for more information on that one.
Let's face it, if Forza Motorsport 7 did have full dynamics we would have known that massive feature detail from the conference, not in an article, especially since Gran Turismo is in an even worse spot.
^
1. GT5 had time of day/weather locked to specific tracks, and the effects were simple at best (and killed the performance). I think GT6 introduced full dynamic tod/weather across the board but I never had enough interest in it to play it personally.
2. Console is still the target platform for Forza 7. PC will have additional benefits because of the higher power ceiling, but the game is being likely being tailored to Xbox hardware first as has always been the case.
3. The Horizon series, as fantastic as it is, has a different performance target that allows it to have more creative/technical freedom. Having twice the rendering time compared to the Motorsport series allows more effects to be enabled.
1. GT5 had time of day/weather locked to specific tracks, and the effects were simple at best (and killed the performance). I think GT6 introduced full dynamic tod/weather across the board but I never had enough interest in it to play it personally.
2. Console is still the target platform for Forza 7. PC will have additional benefits because of the higher power ceiling, but the game is being likely being tailored to Xbox hardware first as has always been the case.
3. The Horizon series, as fantastic as it is, has a different performance target that allows it to have more creative/technical freedom. Having twice the rendering time compared to the Motorsport series allows more effects to be enabled.
Nope nothing really known about it, I notice this little bit of info which I thought was a nice touch from Codemasters in keeping the name
Please be an open world motorstorm spiritual sequel! (please!)
The "fully dynamic experience we got on a lower-power console in 2010" struggled to maintain 60fps and at times dropped to as low as ~30fps in rain, and didn't run at full 1080p(it was 1440 x 1080). Even in 720p it couldn't hold 60fps. It's not like it did it with ease. Polyphony also mentioned the reason they aren't doing any dynamic weather or time of day with GT Sport is so they can actually stick to 60fps this time. Would you say Polyphony hadn't failed if GT Sport had dynamic time of day and weather, but huge framerate drops and couldn't hold a constant 60fps?
"Clearly"...they never said that it doesn't have dynamic time of day, they said they aren't sure how it's being achieved. Pre-baked or not, if the time of day changes it's still changing dynamically. Unless of course you can show me that the meaning of the word "dynamic" doesn't mean constant change or progress, this "fully dynamic" talk is a load of bollocks.
Edit: As below, I mixed-up GT5 and GT6. GT5 ran at 1280 x 1080 and had framerate drops to mid-20's.
TheAdmiester
Member
Just a brief correction - the 2010 one (GT5) was 1280x1080. GT6 was 1440x1080 and as a result ran even worse at times. I always think of this as the epitome of PD's missteps.
"Our game has severe performance issues at 1280x1080. What do we do?"
"MORE PIXELS"
I wouldn't recommend getting so hyped on the next project by the guys who made Driveclub. I love Codemasters, they're my favorite studio, but lets face it: they already have their own engine (which Evo might use), they don't have the resources of a 1st party studio, and they make multiplatform games designed to run at 60 FPS.
EDIT: I'm talking about graphics. About the game itself, coming from Codemasnters, I believe it will be even better than Driveclub, like most of their recent games. :3
EDIT: I'm talking about graphics. About the game itself, coming from Codemasnters, I believe it will be even better than Driveclub, like most of their recent games. :3
I love DC, but I love CM more. <3
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
drotahorror
Member
I don't even like open world racers that much but that has always been a dream of mine. An island with several different environments with rivers and whatnot flowing through them. Hyrdo thunder like boat racing for the rivers between the islands, and of course Motorstorm gameplay when on roads. Closed (roads blocked off) courses with their trademark shortcuts when racing, fully online roaming (of course could play offline), bah I could go on and on. Motorstorm is my favorite racing series.
What game is this?
drotahorror
Member
thelastword
Banned
Anytime you guys are ready, let me know...I can even contribute some money if needs be...
Edit: My goodness, Let Bluepoint or RAD do it, if needs be...just let it happen.
ss_lemonade
Member
I was more surprised still seeing reflections update at 30fps. Is this more of a CPU limitation?
I always wished that PGR4 kept object motion blur ingame. The intro had it and looked so good
cHaOs667
Member
What's the point in 'judging' a several months old build from an unreleased game? I would wait until the game has been released before I would judge it - Wildlands has thought me this the hard way after I was total upset 'bout the "beta".
thelastword
Banned
Reflections at 30fps, mirrors at lower refresh, suspended sand over asphalt. Then we move to environmental lighting...When you get to the tunnel in Dubai, there are some air pockets where the rays of the sun should protrude and hit the pavement inside the tunnel...It would also be a nice time to show some volumetrics and shadows from the light source, there's basically nothing or very weak light protruding, yet it's beaming on the outside...
I've also seen, lots of low res textures behind the immediate foreground or rather in the background...Sometimes many low res textures in the foreground too, but some textures are very sharp there too...With all that ram on XBONEX, it's kind of strange that such concessions are still made.
When you get to the tunnel in Dubai, there are some air pockets where the rays of the sun should protrude and hit the pavement inside the tunnel...It would also be a nice time to show some volumetrics and shadows from the light source, there's basically nothing or very weak light protruding, yet it's beaming on the outside...
Sun rays can not hit the pavement because of the angle. Lighting is pretty accurate here.
thelastword
Banned
I cannot get a good real-time shot, but if you look at time of day for the track, it's the equivalent of twelve noon. Even at that angle with the sun and another internal light source, the reflected light to the left part of the track is much much too weak...This is especially so around the sun shaft opening in the tunnel, the intensity is much too weak and the lighting intensity extremely subdued...Sun rays can not hit the pavement because of the angle. Lighting is pretty accurate here.
The best I could find...
Dictator93
Member
I would say the lighting here hitting opaque geometry is pretty accurate for a 60hz title on console, but the "volumetrics" (they look to just be faked hand placed geometry bits here to fake volumetric lighting) are a bit off. If it were realistic and participating media were scattered here in a uniform pattern, the directly lit volume portion of tunnel would reflect the most light,, and then secondary scattering (the overemphasized hand placed shafts here) would be much less bright. Currently, the faked volumetrics are too bright given their location... and the real ones are not lit at all (they probably have no global volumetric lighting system). Once again...60hz on console.Sun rays can not hit the pavement because of the angle. Lighting is pretty accurate here.
Or is that just supposed to be sand leaking in from the roofs?
The "outside" of that track is windy and kicking up sand. I'd bet that haze coming down from those openings is from that.
Re: thelastword's lighting question, the "correct" exposure is keyed to the sky visible through the roof, and that's why the tunnel seems dark in the scene. If the exposure were shifted to make the tunnel itself appear lit like his reference pic, the sky/ceiling opening would be blown out the same way. The light direction and volumes actually look just about right, it's just the "camera" is set for the outdoor scene. It's easy enough to make an exposure transition for something like that. It might even be a style/mood choice.
Yes, but also reflections usually cover a smaller amount of screen space. So if your object moves 20 pixels on fullscreen it may only move 1 pixel in a windshield mirror.
It should be noted that reflections in games with few dynamic objects like Forza etc. usually are more limited by GPU resources, but CPU is a factor.
[EDIT: About the CPU "limitation", for many types of reflections the scenes has to be rerendered and the CPU has to select which meshes to send to the GPU to get rendered (culling and ordering) so that's the expense)]
So it's a very sensible thing to reduce refresh rate in these areas.
In the case of the mirror even more so, since the driver usually only takes a short glance at that.
It is, obviously, more noticeable when playing in 3rd person, since the whole car is reflective.
That said, 30 Hz is ok I think, but the car has some edges where reflections are changing fast.
In case of many other reflections, like car hood or wet street, these are done entirely on GPU (screen space reflections) and have a fixed cost attached each frame.
I also don't *get* the hate about bad motion blur. If you want to see terrible motion blur just take a look at Uncharted 4, which looks really bad in comparison to basically any in-game blur of modern race games. I think there were some threads about this before.
But, alas, no one cares, since it's hard to spot in motion and the player really has other things to do.
And for screen shots no one uses non-photomode images anyways, so yeah.
I do think Forza looks flat sometimes, but these are not the problematic areas.
That's coming from a guy that does graphics programming.
I cannot get a good real-time shot, but if you look at time of day for the track, it's the equivalent of twelve noon. Even at that angle with the sun and another internal light source, the reflected light to the left part of the track is much much too weak...This is especially so around the sun shaft opening in the tunnel, the intensity is much too weak and the lighting intensity extremely subdued...
The best I could find...
The best you can find is a terrible example. Exposure in your picture is so high that you can't see the exterior of the tunnel, it's an overexposed white, and only indirect light pass through the ceiling while in the Forza screenshot you can see the blue sky. Sorry, you are wrong.
Dictator93, I think those simulated "particles" are sand. I wanted to point to the tunnel surface with indirect lighting, not the "particles". Modifying the contrast is more evident the not regular shape of those particles, are not lighting shafts.
thelastword
Banned
Lol, I disagree with you, but I'll leave it there....The best you can find is a terrible example. Exposure in your picture is so high that you can't see the exterior of the tunnel, it's an overexposed white, and only indirect light pass through the ceiling while in the Forza screenshot you can see the blue sky. Sorry, you are wrong.
Dictator93, I think those simulated "particles" are sand. I wanted to point to the tunnel surface with indirect lighting, not the "particles". Modifying the contrast is more evident the not regular shape of those particles, are not lighting shafts.
In any case, if you compare the two pics. The real pic I posted is under sunny conditions in Dubai. I don't know if you've ever been in a tunnel during the day vs the night, especially those with sunshafts, there's no way it's that dark in sunny conditions during the day in Dubai, that's well nigh impossible if we have to be accurate here...
The real pic looks like daytime in a tunnel, whilst the forza pic looks like nighttime, when they should both be daytime, it doesn't look accurate to me...and the only thing that suggests that these are sunny conditions inside of the tunnel, boils back to how you began the race on the outside, and when you see the shafts depicting the outside in F7.....Which I maintain is not accurate relative to lighting intensity in such conditions....that's why it's so jarring to me..
Also, If that is sand protruding from the shafts, where are the particles on the track inside the tunnel?...Again, if you are familiar with how sand falls from a shaft, it does not suspend in the air, neither does it appear so floaty in the air...but that's my take... carry on...