Dude, educate yourself on what this is. It's not just a graphic update. It's hard to have a discussion when you don't even know what you are discussing about.
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MS clarifies Minecraft's Super Duper Graphics DLC coming to all crossplay platforms
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
Dude, educate yourself on what this is. It's not just a graphic update. It's hard to have a discussion when you don't even know what you are discussing about.
That all may be true, but doesn't change the fact that Microsoft uses actual Xbox Live stats in many of their marketing materials, and a boost from Sony users would allow them to boast higher numbers, be they MAUs, hours played, or total active users.
I don't think those numbers exist in a vacuum.
This update is all about crossplay and unifying the code base.
They will probably support the PS4 version still but the focus in now on the unified platforms as it should be and PS4 will likely not get most of the features.
The graphics update is not part of the Better Together update.
The Better Together update replaces the Switch/Xbone versions of the game with the Bedrock Engine version of the game. It's coming this summer.
The graphics update is coming this fall and it is built in Bedrock Engine.
Unsurprisingly, if your version is not running in the Bedrock Engine, you're not getting the new graphics.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Yes, they are, but you simply rejected them. That's on you. I explained why they'd have to support separate servers with their own separate communities and web presence on PS4, and why that's self-defeating given the purpose of their current initiate. You just decided it doesn't make sense, and that simply says to me that you're not very familiar with how Minecraft works to begin with.
The Super Duper Graphics Pack is DLC for the Bedrock Engine version of the game. PS4 won't be on Bedrock Engine for the reasons I outlined. It's pretty much that simple.
statham
Member
Sony also gets paid 30% for every minecraft game sold. MC is very popular. you are hurting your sales somewhat, and making fans angry, young fans, who may become fanboys.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
My main question is: what about any of this content makes it not doable without the better together update?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Funny you say that, considering this exchange two weeks ago:
Yet Slayer is asking the same question again today because "both sides" or some shit. Come on bruv
It's running in a completely different engine and code base?
And it's developed and maintained by a completely different studio (Mojang) versus the current console versions (4J)?
Pfffft, thats just what Microsoft WANTS you to think. Personally, Ill take arm chair developer #4748538292382s opinion on the matter.
Nooooooooooo, statham, youll become a filthy Sony MAU!!!
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I already explained to you more than once. So I'll just copy and paste this shit again, like I have been.
--------
Mojang is revamping the console versions of Minecraft, in order to unify their Minecraft development and achieve feature parity among all versions instead of developing several different versions alongside one another.
Cross-play is an important part of this initiative because it enables massive dedicated server support (formerly absent on consoles) in a way that's not fragmented. Community-hosted servers will be enabled alongside Mojang-provided servers. These servers house infinite sized worlds that can play host to hundreds or tens of thousands of players at once, allowing for a community and a world to be shaped. Each Minecraft server is like a MMO in and of itself, and these dedicated servers will allow players to play crossplatform, which will grow the community exponentially by extending the social possibilities of dedicated servers more meaningfully to all platforms.
As a consequence of denying cross-play, the PS4 version can't benefit from the lions share of features that this coming engine revamp is intended to enable, and in addition, in order to support the PS4 version, Mojang would need to dedicate time and resources to treat it like a separate version, exactly the situation they're trying to end with this engine revamp.
And so Mojang isn't going to expend the time and effort to upgrade that version of the game. Nor should they be expected to.
Since PS4 is not getting this engine revamp, it's not getting the graphics pack designed for the new engine.
------
The Better Together update is meant to
- consolidate Minecraft's ongoing development
and
- unify its communities across all platforms.
To that end, most versions of the game are being aligned to a common codebase, where updates can be pushed simultaneously and with parity. The PS4 version is not, because it cannot enjoy the most major benefits of the Better Together update without the cross-play support.
One of the most important parts of the Better Together update is dedicated server support. Mojang will themselves supply four large dedicated servers housing infinite worlds which can support thousands of players at any given time. These dedicated servers will be backed by online presence. Websites, discussion forums, the like. These dedicated servers are cross-play, keeping them unfragmented and unifying the community in a big way. Dedicated server support already existed on PC and mobile platforms (and they're the reasons why those are MC's most popular platforms - online dedicated servers are Minecraft's defining mode of play). Now, they're not only going to be available on every platform - they'll be unfragmented. Anyone can join any server from any platform. That's huge for Minecraft and its overarching community. And so, Mojang would have to be willing to fragment that community, providing PS4-only dedicated servers with their own separate web presence, in order to enable some weak semblance parity there. Going against half the intent of this update/upgrade.
There's also dlc purchases, which will become platform agnostic and carry over to every other platform, but when purchased on PS4, they won't. There's local play and online play with other platforms in their worlds, which PS4 version won't have. And the Super Duper Grafix pack. Because the PS4 version isn't getting the engine upgrade, because it'd necessitate its own team to develop bespoke updates for a version of the game that can't interface with the rest of them, a version of the game that would need its own updates separate from the one update pushed to the rest of the contemporary platforms - a problem that Mojang is trying to eliminate almost entirely by consolidating MC development into one overarching version for many platforms.
So, in other words, it would be self-defeating for Mojang to spend the time, effort, and money to upgrade Minecraft for PS4, when Minecraft players on PS4 ultimately still would not be able to utilize the main benefits of the Better Together update. The experience PS4 players have now with the game would be little different from the experience PS4 players would have with a Bedrock version of the game that doesn't support cross-play or MS acct functionality, so even beyond the reasons I outlined above, there's simply no reason for Mojang to pursue that.
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You know, the fact that we've done this before is telling. You're not arguing from a point of sincerity here and that's clear as day now. I don't know if you're just being contrarian but whatever it is it's not a good look.
Bruh, it's Monday. Lay off the sauce.
statham
Member
I could have said it better,but ill let this honcho get credit. Jk
I was actually looking for this post to link. So well done man. Just put this in the OP.
LukasTaves
Member
That's because Sony had an agreement to publish the Ps versions right before Ms bought them.
Laziness? How about economics? MS made deals with Apple, Google, Nintendo, and Oculus to ensure that users purchased content could be carried over between networks. They each surrendered something inexchange for what is essentially a unified relaunch of one of the biggest games in history. So MS should now turn to their partners and say, Sony's getting all of the cool stuff, for "free"?
Why does that make sense? Why should MS branch out their development path, in favor of Sony, when they are working towards a unified ecosystem?
These stats are totally arbitrary though. We don't even know how MS counts it's MAU. There's nothing stopping them from including everyone playing games on their servers right now, including PS4 minecraft.
At the end of the day "boasting" has no effect on Sony's bottom line, so it's a silly approach. I really doubt that's Sony's issue
arhra
Member
That a good point, actually - people keep asking about why Microsoft are "holding back" the graphical update on PS4, but really, Microsoft themselves aren't really involved in that version, except as Mojang's parent company.
Any questions regarding patches/updates to the PlayStation versions of Minecraft should surely be directed at the publisher of those versions - Sony themselves.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I forgot about my past posts to be honest haha. Is this the same thread?
But hey, I guess they just want to deal with one server. That basically answered my passive aggressive questions. In the past, they just did it for multiple platforms but I guess they're playing hardball to force Sony and the public to get on board. I'd love it myself, but I don't think I agree with the tactic, obviously.
everyer
Member
But this is the different thing:
"We are trying to make a unified ecosystem." -----This is great. I appreciate them.
"But if you don't listen to us, you are out. We will not update features for your platform players"------Isn't this a one-sided clause?
If "cross platform" and "unified ecosystem is their purpose, I appreciate them trying to do that.
But I really don't know why cross platform gameplay influences the DLC.
If I don't play with XB/IOS players, I can't get the graphic...tell me why??? Isn't it
discrimination?
Well, the only purpose is to make public going on object Sony's Non-cross play.
No, Mojang don't care for their players.
It's just a deal.
^ Holy shit.
No one is playing hardball. They are moving to a new engine and this new engine introduces additional benefits. Sony is refusing this new engine, so the PS4 version is unable to receive these benefits. It's been stated that the offer is still on the table but Sony wants to protect the children, so continue to refuse the new engine.
The end.
No one is playing hardball. They are moving to a new engine and this new engine introduces additional benefits. Sony is refusing this new engine, so the PS4 version is unable to receive these benefits. It's been stated that the offer is still on the table but Sony wants to protect the children, so continue to refuse the new engine.
The end.
Obliterator
Member
Absolutely ridiculous Sony is blocking this from their platform. Pathetic really
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Fair enough. Speaking specifically about where the onus re:dedicated server support lies -
We're on NeoGAF right now. Imagine if NeoGAF were the forums to a popular game server, one which anyone on any platform could access.
One platform holder out of all of them declines the cross-play support, which keeps the players on that platform from accessing the GAF server or being part of the GAF community.
Who do I fault?
That platform holder?
Or evilore, because he didn't make a second GAF server, a second NeoGAF website and community, and another hired group to manage that server and website, specifically for the relative small pool of players on that single platform compared to the massive overarching pool which all other players of that game belong to?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
You should probably inform yourself regarding the details of the Better Together update, and then read that big-ass wall of text of mine above your post.
The Graphics Pack is reliant on the Bedrock codebase. I explained why the PS4 version isn't getting the Bedrock upgrade.
As for the other DLC, it's tied to the Microsoft account login (enabling platform-agnostic DLC purchases), and the Microsoft account login is the third party login that allows for cross-platform play, as everyone will have a unique username and will be able to invite friends and communicate from within the game.
Sony refused crossplay, so the PS4 version will not see these features, because you can't use an MS account and because there's little reason for Mojang to upgrade the PS4 version when it otherwise cannot benefit from the most major elements of Mojang's Better Together initiative. And when upgrading the PS4 version to Bedrock and attaining some semblance of parity would entail the same kind of fragmented approach to MC's development that Mojang is explicitly trying to put an end to by unifying Minecraft under one common codebase.
The DLC is built for the new engine.
The old engine can support it and was created by a different developer
The new engine also has cross play/cross buy baked directly into the engine.
Not sure how more clearly this could be spelled out for you
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Perfect.
I'd also like to add,
In this holdout equation...
Sony winning = Good for Sony in the short term because they may lose the lead at some point. + Bad for consumers and devs now and in the long term.
MS winning = Good for MS now but potentially bad for them if they ever get the lead. + Good for consumers and devs now and in the long term.
Really the only part of the equations that should matter to us are the parts concerning the consumer. I added the other parts to try and show that if every company excepted crossplay then it would even the playing field so to speak since each company would now potentially have the same advantages and disadvantages as the other.
As it stands though, MS, Nintendo, Google, Apple and Amazon hold the advantage over Sony. And it will stay that way until Sony folds. The hammering isn't going to stop. Question is, how far is Sony willing to let their image be degraded before they do?
When looked at like this, it would behove all involved to urge Sony to get with the times asap.
Console Warriors, because they don't want Sony's image to be besmirched. (Of course I'm not talking about non Sony console warriors here. IMO They would most likely want to see Sony try to hold out longer because of how bad it looks for Sony and because they love reveling in all the negative press Sony is getting for this. Every day Sony holds out is a win for them.)
Consumerists, because they want more options, to lengthen the lives of some of our games, faster matches in some cases, and see how crossplay can benefit us all.
Those concerned with the health of the industry, because they see how this could be a boon to devs that want to use it.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Isn't it about "economics" on Sony's end too? It's not just "about the children". I'm sure there are things in there they'd rather not give up or "sacrifice" as someone said the others have when they're the market leader.
At the same time, I do wish something happens because I would absolutely love cross-platform play on everything. But I also realistically realise Sony would rather have some kind of say and not conform to someone else's ruleset. I'm just saying I get it from their perspective despite wanting it from a player/consumer perspective.
At the same time, I do wish something happens because I would absolutely love cross-platform play on everything. But I also realistically realise Sony would rather have some kind of say and not conform to someone else's ruleset. I'm just saying I get it from their perspective despite wanting it from a player/consumer perspective.
knightfolk
Member
Word size limits don't have anything to do with horsepower, it is due to game save file size limits. It seems all users (sans Sony) get some sort of cloud storage now, so no save files to worry about.
https://youtu.be/sYZ7QfAoQTw
everyer
Member
Well, at least there are others choices for sandbox building games:
Dragon Quest: Builders
Portal Knights
Hakoniwa Company Works
Lego worlds
Birthdays the Beginning
I will wait for Dragon Quest: Builders 2
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
But... You don't get it from their perspective...
You really don't know what their perspective is... other than what they have told you. Which is, "think of the children."
Anything else is just a guess and believing or putting weight in that guess is only beneficial to Sony and not to you as a consumer.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Makes a lot of sense.
Why should Sony get the ability to dictate Microsoft development path? Giving Sony preferential treatment would only make other participants less willing. If the goal is to unify the ecosystem, it doesn't make sense to devote time and resources to a platform that rejected that unified ecosystem.
There's no logical reason for MS to devote special attention to the version of the game that is arbitrarily being held back by the platform holder. It's a waste. They are better off encouraging PS4 owners to buy different versions of the game. Most people have alternative ways of playing it anyway.
Right, and you just accept the fact that you will be blocked out on the biggest sand box in the world. Okay, good luck with that I guess?
Sure it is. But I can't see how this makes sense for them economically.
They just guarantees that the PS4 version of minecraft will be the least desirable. It'll sell less, and they'll sell less DLC because everyone will be playing on different platforms.
The ARE NOT the market leader when it comes to minecraft. Not even close .
Gotdatmoney
Member
Everyone is getting the update because everyone said "yo we get your vision and we are fine with it". Everyone except Sony. If Sony can't share with others why should devs and publishers bother? Isn't this like the exact discussion we always have with Nintendo and third parties? If you the platform holder isn't going to create a system to allow for the vision, then what is there to complain about? You miss out sometimes. Same with Xbox missing indie games due to parity clause. Make it doable or your platform misses out.
You can't possibly believe that. There's no way the new engine has any kind of justifiable technical requirement that you be able to play with players on other consoles. It's a business decision, pure and simple. It's one Microsoft is well within their rights to make, as is Sony. Microsoft has taken a justifiably pro-consumer angle, and that's certainly how it looks so they get to paint their competition as the buy guy. That's a total coincidence, I'm sure.
Do we know if playing Minecraft on Switch will now require an Xbox Live account? Or is it optional? Any product I purchase that requires me to hand over an email address to use isn't squeaky clean, consumer friendliness-wise.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Okay. That's your choice. It's not the choice most people will make, but it's yours to make.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Microsoft didn't make this into a PR battle, gamers did by talking about it. Jim Ryan's statements, Psyonix's commentary, Spencer's interview quote... all the shit that made this into a bigger discussion was prompted by our initial reactions to E3's cross-play related news. This wasn't some top-to-bottom MS plan to incite a winning PR battle with Sony the way you say it is, although Microsoft probably isn't too miffed by how things turned out. There were two active threads on this subject before Jim Ryan even had his say.
Anyway, go ahead and read that big wall of text I posted above, so that you may better understand why the engine upgrade, Mojang's roadmap for MC moving forward, and cross-play support are all so closely intertwined. It's not that Bedrock requires cross-play - it's that there's no point to upgrading the PS4 version to Bedrock when neither players nor Mojang can actually take advantage of the most integral elements of the Bedrock upgrade, and the Better Together initiative.
If it's about economics it's still terrible for Sony. What if Timmy sells his PS4 for a Switch or Xbox. Or plays MC on another platform? Last thing Sony wants is to lose it's player base. Right? It's a lose lose with Sony.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
This must be why Sony seems to be heavily marketing that other MC-like game (not sure the name tbh). Saw a few Sony sponsored ads on Facebook for it at least.
Huge Succeeded already addressed your post better than I could.
As for the Live account login. Yes it's required. One of the points of the Better Together updates is to support cross platform DLC, so that DLC you purchase on one platform carries over to the other platforms as well. It's because of this and the fact that the game is running on their servers that this game requires a Live account. It's not anti-consumer at all, unless you consider EA, Ubisoft, etc. having their own log in accounts as anti-consumer as well.
The fact that they refuse cross platform play on Rocket League pretty much shows that this isn't about Live account requirements since it's not required for that game.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Really milking the no cross play press lol. Wish Microsoft had this much zeal during the 360 period /rolleye
Hope the tactic pans out for them.
Hope the tactic pans out for them.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
lol.
You just posted in a thread about Minecraft's Graphics DLC specifically
an old thread that was posted before this became a PR battle with MS and Sony personalities weighing in
in order to imply that this thread is alive because of Microsoft's 'tactic' to 'milk the cross play press'
and that their current cross-play support shouldn't be lauded
because they didn't explicitly support cross-play years ago
why don't you just come out and call us hypocrites for wanting Cross-Play now all of a sudden so we can get another box crossed off the ol' bingo board
Gotdatmoney
Member
It will require an Xbox live account on Switch like the other versions do.
And honestly, I don't think the point is to make Sony the bad guy. I think the point is they want to modernize their engine, consolidate their userbase and reduce the overhead of supporting so many individual versions of the game. It's better for them to consolidate everyone else and support the sony platfrom individually than leave things as they are. I'm not big on MS but it literally makes no sense that the other 3 platform holders of your game are all in for your pitch but you make special arrangements for the one uncooperative one. Why would anyone do that. This isn't some game where most of the players are on the PS ecosystem.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Nah don't get me wrong, I don't care if Sony misses out, that's just good business, I just think it's funny coming from Microsoft of all companies lol. I honestly do hope it works for them, cross play benefits all parties.
Just the "better together" initiative lol.
This isn't "coming from Microsoft" though. They didn't fan any flames on this topic and have only spoken about it when directly asked about it, which was only once IIRC.
It's the gamers and websites that have brought attention to this, not MS. It's in their best interest to not get caught up in making Sony look bad since that may hinder Sony's cooperation or consideration to this.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Yeah, Phil Spencer was asked a question about this topic specifically in an interview with Jeff Gerstmann of Giant Bomb, a question that Jeff only asked because gamers were in a huff about it. I believe that's the extent of Microsoft's input on this matter. Ever since then, there's been a handful of posters who want to make it out like this entire situation was a ploy by Microsoft to generate negative press for Sony.
OmegaDL50
Member
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Okay so in my ignorance, this "initiative" is opt in, and Sony chose to not participate because of really shaky reasons?