tauroxd
Member
So apparently 8 million people voted today in Venezuela.
It is truly ridiculous that they dared to say that number. I just can't actualy believe they just say that. It makes no sense.
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Maduro's regime has killed 14 people today in Venezuela.
- Thread starter clemenx
- Start date
It is truly ridiculous that they dared to say that number. I just can't actualy believe they just say that. It makes no sense.
Here is just one article about food shortages in Venezuela:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/americas/venezuelan-food-crisis-weight-loss/index.html
just one excerpt:
Remember that these numbers are from february, and respondents were asked about last year, it's very probable that the situation is getting a lot worse. Inflation has already reached 700% for 2017. Other statistics are about as terrifying: the maternal mortality rate jumped 66% last year.
Corruption is endemic, with people close to power like Jimothy´s friends making a healthy profit selling staple foods on the black market, the army being at the center of much of this grey economy.
Maduro did win 50.6% of the vote in 2013. but the opposition got a two-third majority in parliament in 2015 (before three opposition MPs were barred from taking their seats, reducing the opposition control). The government stacked the supreme court before the new assembly could be seated, then used it to strip parliament of its power in 2017: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/30/venezuela-president-nicolas-maduro-national-assembly
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/americas/venezuelan-food-crisis-weight-loss/index.html
just one excerpt:
Remember that these numbers are from february, and respondents were asked about last year, it's very probable that the situation is getting a lot worse. Inflation has already reached 700% for 2017. Other statistics are about as terrifying: the maternal mortality rate jumped 66% last year.
Corruption is endemic, with people close to power like Jimothy´s friends making a healthy profit selling staple foods on the black market, the army being at the center of much of this grey economy.
Maduro did win 50.6% of the vote in 2013. but the opposition got a two-third majority in parliament in 2015 (before three opposition MPs were barred from taking their seats, reducing the opposition control). The government stacked the supreme court before the new assembly could be seated, then used it to strip parliament of its power in 2017: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/30/venezuela-president-nicolas-maduro-national-assembly
Corronchilejano
Member
A lot of people here probably know nothing about south American history and their reality. Before putting their feet deeper into their mouths maybe they should consider asking questions before reaching ridiculous conclusions.
You don't know what you're talking about and you should leave it there.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I had to look for that burning maternity ward, and could'nt find something that prove it, except for Maduro saying that he fly until there, rescued everyone and brought peace to all the universe.
But the mayor, employees and neighborhoods are saying it was fake.
The resistance is pretty much against the guards/police.
So... I'm gonna believe them.
moffattron9000
Member
The reason for that number is that a little while back, the opposition held an unofficial election. That election (which also would have no power because unofficial) got over 7 million voters.
I'm from venezuela, it's just unbelievable how some of you gaffers think the protest are only in the "rich" (the only rich people in Venezuela are from the narco-regime) neighborhoods, the protests are EVERYWHERE, even in the shanty towns people are protesting against the regime.
The dictatorship has just announced the 8 million people voted for the Constituent Assembly , who in their right minds would believe this BS? no one voted for it, people working in the public industry were LITERALLY THREATENED to vote for it if they wanted to keep their jobs, and even then, a lot of them didn't vote.
The situation in my country is just grotesque, i'm really scared, i would say we are on the verge of a civil war but that's unlikely, the armed forces are too loyal to the regime.
It's just offensive how some of you are spouting BS about the horrible situation here, i only wish you would open your eyes (i know it's only a minority of gaffers who are like this, but it still hurts).
The dictatorship has just announced the 8 million people voted for the Constituent Assembly , who in their right minds would believe this BS? no one voted for it, people working in the public industry were LITERALLY THREATENED to vote for it if they wanted to keep their jobs, and even then, a lot of them didn't vote.
The situation in my country is just grotesque, i'm really scared, i would say we are on the verge of a civil war but that's unlikely, the armed forces are too loyal to the regime.
It's just offensive how some of you are spouting BS about the horrible situation here, i only wish you would open your eyes (i know it's only a minority of gaffers who are like this, but it still hurts).
I really wonder if you actually believe this stuff.
Opinions and beliefs are worthless. You either know or you don't know.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I do not know much about the situation down there, but I'm surprised at people defending a dictatorship.
I've seen photos of the protests, and it appears to be a united front all types of citizens.
I've seen photos of the protests, and it appears to be a united front all types of citizens.
So apparently 8 million people voted today in Venezuela.
In the last elections a couple of years ago they got 5 millions...
They think that the people is stupid enough to believe this number?
Honestly you need to talk to the Venezuelans who have escaped to Mexico to get a better perspective. That's not whitewashing Mexico's huge problems, but we're talking about something magnitudes worse.
As someone who knows that the US interfered in Venezuela during the 2002 coup, I am telling you that ain't it.
I don't know why you posted that link, but if you're trying to imply that Al-Jazeera has reporting supporting the idea that it's the opposition who are actually behind the bulk of the violence, that's not what the article says.
The article does say that an opposition political candidate was one of those killed, however.
Fuck me, I wish USA still intervened like the old days down here. The 21th century has made them pussies.
Go all Noriega on Maduro, it's all I have left to hope for.
And I have personally donated and assisted for materials for making Molotov bombs and other things. These bastards are murderers, we're not going to turn the other cheek,
Go all Noriega on Maduro, it's all I have left to hope for.
And I have personally donated and assisted for materials for making Molotov bombs and other things. These bastards are murderers, we're not going to turn the other cheek,
And_Gignac
Member
Mexico has no moral standing to criticize or give recommendations regarding the situation in Venezuela. If you think what's going down there is worse than what people in hot narco spots are normally living, where there is not even the glimpse of a functioning rule of law / state, then maybe you need to talk to people outside of the affluent Mexico's cities.
And I am not defending Maduro. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of calling the situation in Venezuela a "humanitarian crisis", with the agenda of dismissing socialists ideals, while plenty of capitalistic countries are having shit crisis too and barely anyone is claiming (itt) that probably is their socio economical model of choice also to blame. In the case of Mexico, specially, with neoliberalism (yes I used that word!) being the root cause of the decomposition of the social tissue that gave rise to narco violence.
Again, not defending Maduro or Chavez's ineffective and cruel attempt at a lasting socialist revolution. I am just annoyed because you know damn well that this narrative of Venezuela becoming worse than Iraq that the Mexican media is pushing is nothing but an attempt at diminishing AMLO and Morena.
Isnt the candidate of the tweets or Its another? Its a question really
Just unbelievable, it's obscene, THIS is a dictatorship, i have friends enduring inhuman conditions in jail right now because they dared to protest against the corrupt regime.
This is just disgusting, to me and to the big majority of the Venezuelan people.
Hell no. First of all, Noriega was a US created problem. Secondly, the US already intervened in Venezuela back in 2002, and it was crap. No thanks. Based on history, I know not to trust the US.
Whatever good you might want to claim that Chavez did for the poor, the huge concentration of power in a single individual and a single party plus the mismanagement of the economy (their complicated currency exchange system is a cruel joke at this point) has already done enough to discredit the regime.
This Constituent Assembly is not going to make things better, to say the least, and it is only increasing polarization to the extreme.
I wish there weren't some right-wing assholes in the U.S. and in Latin America who are taking advantage of the situation in Venezuela for their own purposes, but that doesn't deny that Maduro and his thugs deserve to be criticized and resisted.
And no, you don't need to be from a perfect or "innocent" country in order to complain.
This Constituent Assembly is not going to make things better, to say the least, and it is only increasing polarization to the extreme.
I wish there weren't some right-wing assholes in the U.S. and in Latin America who are taking advantage of the situation in Venezuela for their own purposes, but that doesn't deny that Maduro and his thugs deserve to be criticized and resisted.
And no, you don't need to be from a perfect or "innocent" country in order to complain.
And there it is.
And_Gignac
Member
🍑
shockthrill
Banned
do you think you're clever?
Looks like we have another bastard murderer now. Congrats.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I never thought I'd see the day where a gaffer would defend Chavismo. And of course it had to be a fucking junior.
Like the aljazeera article Said i agree, the govermnent and oposition should sit on a table and negotiate. To end this violence and a better outcome to the people, If IS that Window still open IS the better result to everyone. Molotovs Wont solve this, you could kill someone.
moffattron9000
Member
Considering that Maduro stacked the Supreme Court with loyalists, then changed the system so the legislature (which the opposition won two thirds of democratically) didn't have any power; that path is well and truly dead.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Most brutal dictators come into power via a democratic election. The problem is once they have power they don't want to let go, you incompetent fool!
So civil war IS the way? I think the oposition should try, If the govermnent refuses then Its another story.
Huh? Why are you comparing Peña Nieto to Maduro?
Ah, a Morenista. Luckily, I don't have to rely on Mexican media to know what's happening in Venezuela. I had first had knowledge of the situation last weekend on a reunion with the Venezuelan community here in Scandinavia. Great people and I had lots of fun, but them talking about Venezuela was the saddest thing. They love that country yet they can't go back or do more for their families than send money and pray it reaches them.
Horrible stuff.
Though GAF, kindly, fuck off with the "socialists, eh?" angle, truly fuck off. Read a few books on it and then realize that "putting power into the working class's hands" does not even remotely look like this. It is literally the opposite. People are killed here. People are starving. There is a ruling elite.
This is as far removed from communism or marxist ideology as slavery is from freedom of people.
Though GAF, kindly, fuck off with the "socialists, eh?" angle, truly fuck off. Read a few books on it and then realize that "putting power into the working class's hands" does not even remotely look like this. It is literally the opposite. People are killed here. People are starving. There is a ruling elite.
This is as far removed from communism or marxist ideology as slavery is from freedom of people.
MisterFalcon
Member
The reality of the situation is that either one side or the other has the power, there is no middle ground. Which is why Maduro is even more of a douche to the rest of the left because he is setting Venezuela up for at least two decades of rightwing gov.
moffattron9000
Member
I've looked. While the theories are good in theory, Socialist, Communist, and Marxist ideology falls apart when it's put into practice. Meanwhile, warts and all, Capitalism has the best track record for providing for a population.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Whatever Maduro's failings are, it's the ones lynching black people and dropping grenades on courthouses who are doing that
MisterFalcon
Member
Ah yes, the infamous helicopter assault on the courthouse. How many people died in that ? Or even what damage was done to the courthouse, was it even damaged ?
That is all cool, but lets not pretend that authorian regimes cannot happen within any type of society. They can. We have plenty of examples of right-wing regimes as well.
But, since it requires permanent growing, we are at the end of its lifespan.
Souldriver
Member
I can believe what I'm reading in this thread.
You get little articles and mentions in the news media how things are bad in Venezuela, but other than that I don't really pay much attention to it.
EXCEEEPT for a Venezuelan guy I now consider a friend who has more or less fleed venezuela before shit really hit the fan a while ago, and as a 19 year old has to start over in a country on the other side of the world, while his family is still in Venezuela for lack of money. The horror stories he tells me about what his family is going through... Arrest and abuse of his father, arrest of his sister, no medication for his grandfather anymore, doing trips across the border at night to get medication from Columbia, lack of food and a prohibition of buying food, ...
As I understand it well, his family went from living a nice life to experiencing a living nightmare. Every time I see him I'm afraid to ask how his family is doing. It really hits a nerve when he says with a sense of pride and sadness "did you know Venezuelans we're surveyed as the happiest people in the world only ten years ago...?".
So I only get to go by an eye witness account, but it makes me reaaaaally question these pro-maduro posts in this thread.
You get little articles and mentions in the news media how things are bad in Venezuela, but other than that I don't really pay much attention to it.
EXCEEEPT for a Venezuelan guy I now consider a friend who has more or less fleed venezuela before shit really hit the fan a while ago, and as a 19 year old has to start over in a country on the other side of the world, while his family is still in Venezuela for lack of money. The horror stories he tells me about what his family is going through... Arrest and abuse of his father, arrest of his sister, no medication for his grandfather anymore, doing trips across the border at night to get medication from Columbia, lack of food and a prohibition of buying food, ...
As I understand it well, his family went from living a nice life to experiencing a living nightmare. Every time I see him I'm afraid to ask how his family is doing. It really hits a nerve when he says with a sense of pride and sadness "did you know Venezuelans we're surveyed as the happiest people in the world only ten years ago...?".
So I only get to go by an eye witness account, but it makes me reaaaaally question these pro-maduro posts in this thread.
ultratruman
Banned
Pro-Maduro GAF, astonishing.
moffattron9000
Member
Yet there hasn't been a long-term, stable Socialist government that hasn't fallen to authoritarianism.
No we're not done growing. There is still a whole bunch of Asia that is still developing. That's before you even get to Africa, and the real growth that is there as we pull another billion out of poverty. This also ignores the huge change in technology incoming, and the real potential there to improve people's lives.
Well, I am not sure it is Marx's fault that even the idea of basic income is being tested in the Holy Almighty West like a dog tests the bathtub when it is time to wash: avoiding it like the plague, god forbid we have any usable data out of it instead of dismissing it out of spite.
moffattron9000
Member
The Cold War was in large part over this. Socialism lost.