I havent played Sonic Mania yet but if you've played Sonic CD at all that could be influencing your memory. Sonic CD's level design is pretty atrocious because it is almost 100% exploration with little sense of speed or flow.
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I don't understand how you're supposed to play Sonic games.
- Thread starter digitalrelic
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I havent played Sonic Mania yet but if you've played Sonic CD at all that could be influencing your memory. Sonic CD's level design is pretty atrocious because it is almost 100% exploration with little sense of speed or flow.
digitalrelic
Banned
OP here. I've put about an hour into Sonic Mania, and...
It's fucking awesome!
Old school goodness from top to bottom. Just got through the Chemical Plant Zone and the level design is wonderful. The air pipes. The Bouncy goo. The sticky platforms. The DNA strand things... Just beautiful and charming and fun. Really excited to play some more.
I'm kind of going for speed this first time through, but I plan to take it nice and slow on a second playthrough.
It's fucking awesome!
Old school goodness from top to bottom. Just got through the Chemical Plant Zone and the level design is wonderful. The air pipes. The Bouncy goo. The sticky platforms. The DNA strand things... Just beautiful and charming and fun. Really excited to play some more.
I'm kind of going for speed this first time through, but I plan to take it nice and slow on a second playthrough.
Arc Christelle
Member
It only comes off like that because I didn't bother writing a long overdrawn post about every facet of Sonic that has already been said within the 17+ pages of the thread.
The path most of us took was just simply playing the game back in those days, then finding out, either through experimentation or word of mouth that there were things like Special Stages, Chaos Emeralds, becoming Super Sonic, good endings, etc.
I even posted cheat codes, because hell even if you're just curious there's a lot to see from those, and could even inspire you to play the game. I know people don't want to believe this is a thing especially for Sonic games since for some reason people don't believe that Sonic games are mechanically deep despite the fanbase thriving off of it's two biggest assets, gameplay and believe it or not
lore
Eveyone in here has already stated, just play the game, which if you want to enjoy it at a base level, you can. Just beat the stages and discover more about the game as you go along. You will want to replay and master the game from each bit you've learned from your playthrough. It's not a game that's made to be played once and put away, it's something that meant to be constantly experienced. That is a part of the strengths of old school gaming/arcades like Metal Slug.
The fundamentals are reaching the end of the level, and Sonic is incredibly forgiving for that thanks to the rings system making it harder to die. Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Mania go a step further by having alternate characters who have extra movement to help beginners.
Airola
Member
I think the original Sonic games were never about the speed.
Speed was an additional thing you could try if you want to, or if you wanted to try to do speed runs after you've learned the levels.
The main thing is to avoid enemies, jump on platforms and get to the end of the level.
Rings are your "shield", so that the first contact with an enemy doesn't kill you. The more rings you have, the more probable it is for you to regain that "shield" immediately after losing it. If you have only one ring, there is a high chance the ring manages to vanish before you can get it back. For me, the protection the rings bring has always been one of the most addictive things in Sonic games. It is always satisfying to get at least one ring, and everytime you get more, things feel more safe. But as soon as an enemy hits you, things feel very unsafe and the rings gain their importance back again.
The later Sonic games were shit because the developers thought the game should be about speed. I also hate the homing attack system. That was another attempt to make the game "faster" and it completely ruined the whole thing.
Speed was an additional thing you could try if you want to, or if you wanted to try to do speed runs after you've learned the levels.
The main thing is to avoid enemies, jump on platforms and get to the end of the level.
Rings are your "shield", so that the first contact with an enemy doesn't kill you. The more rings you have, the more probable it is for you to regain that "shield" immediately after losing it. If you have only one ring, there is a high chance the ring manages to vanish before you can get it back. For me, the protection the rings bring has always been one of the most addictive things in Sonic games. It is always satisfying to get at least one ring, and everytime you get more, things feel more safe. But as soon as an enemy hits you, things feel very unsafe and the rings gain their importance back again.
The later Sonic games were shit because the developers thought the game should be about speed. I also hate the homing attack system. That was another attempt to make the game "faster" and it completely ruined the whole thing.
It might, I remember trying to play Sonic CD a couple of years ago.
That's great! I had a similar change of heart, as I wrote in the last page.
I want to play previous games later to see if this change has to do with better level design or just the game flow clicking with me.
I recommend S&K first, by itself, and then keep working backwards so you can see how the formula evolved.
Fair enough. I do think that reading some of those facets definitely help "getting" what the game is all about. It sure did help me. Gamers these days have a different mindset when approaching games, so it might be worth it trying to point them at the right direction when playing something as unique as Sonic.
I also want to randomly point out that Sonic Mania aesthetics are slick as hell. I really hope Nintendo follows a similar path with Mario.
I highly recommend Sonic 2. It was my favorite Sonic game for a while because it was the first one I actually managed to beat. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the better game, but the larger levels and greater focus on exploration make it a bit harder to get into. Sonic 2 is the most streamlined of the Genesis games. I also think playing Sonic 2 after Sonic 3 and Knuckles can feel like a regression.
WoolyNinja
Member
Its what I love about Sonic. Sometimes I just want to play some levels and not have to think about it much and so I just fly through it as quick as possible and enjoy myself. Other times I want to take my time and collect everything, try to get to the bonus stages, etc so I take my time and I again enjoy myself. For a game so fast paced its surprisingly chill to actually play.
Isn't Sonic 2 the one with super obnoxious water levels in the beginning?
LizardKing
Member
Why would I replay something if I stumbled and clunked my way through it not having much fun the first time? It's like people's answer to why is someone not having fun with Sonic is they haven't repeated the levels enough. When obviously the motivation for doing so or not would be based on how much fun they had doing it the first time. That would almost never fly as a justification in any other game.
I think level flow got better as the series went along. The jump from Sonic 1 to Sonic 2 was pretty major. Some more frustrating stuff in the original, like Labrynth Zone or all the crazy hazards in Scrap Brain Zone.
saltycigar
Neo Member
I don't think the original Sonic games were as good as some in this thread may think, but I can understand why the way it plays has the fans it does.
I won't respond to everything in your post but the quoted part, since I think you're perhaps missing a point right here about what it is that can be fun about the 2D Sonic games. The challenge in the classic Sonic games is meant to be found in a variety of things (and that's true also of the games you cited, DKC and others). So there is an element of what you point out - there are two design philosophies sometimes pulling the way a level plays out in different directions. And that is jarring. Sometimes they even put secrets in places that don't really make sense since a good run wouldn't bother with them and so their being collected on run-throughs would hinder the pursuit of the main feeling of satisfaction or accomplishment me or I think many people who did enjoy the games (lots in this thread much more than me) felt.
As others have hinted at, what you're looking for in trying to get good at any one classic Sonic level is a feat that combines memorisation and improvisation. Memorisation for the same reason we all enjoy difficult platform games of all kinds, and improvisation for those runs when things don't go slightly as you planned (despite having memorised all of the most important parts of the route) and you must adjust quickly so as to still achieve a decent time. The reason it felt inordinately good to get a level down pretty much pat is parasitic on the frustration you inevitably felt at getting fucked by spikes, enemy projectiles, and bottomless pits.
That's how I understand the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction I used to feel when I could cruise through as a kid, for instance, much of the first half of Sonic 2 without losing lives.That said, sometimes the frustration would feel like it came much too cheaply, and that is where I do think the classic games fall down a little on design (and this is where I hope Mania improves on the older games). Nonetheless, I can perfectly well appreciate what it is to really enjoy a Sonic platformer, without thinking the games were without flaw. I certainly do not think they were as significant, for the purposes of game design, as Nintendo's platformers of the same era. But they were fucking good games.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Awesome. But I'm curious to know what was different this time around.
It has 2 early zones with water, but both of them are pretty chill. Chemical Plant is considered the best zone in the game by many and Aquatic Ruins is middle of the road, especially if you stay on the upper levels. Just keep track of air bubbles and you'll be fine.
Chemical Plant Zone and Aquatic Ruin Zone have some water but not more than Hydrocity Zone in Sonic 3. None of these are nearly as obnoxious as Labrynth Zone in Sonic 1.
I booted up Sonic 2 last week for the first time in almost two decades. I remember enjoying the game back in the day, but I can't say I had a positive experience here. My complaints range from the screen being too focused on Sonic so that I can't see where I'm going, a Game Over throwing me back to the start of the game, special stages controlling terribly, Sonic himself controlling sluggish, cheap deaths due to Sonic getting barely crushed by a pixel as well as massive enemy projectile hitboxes, and worst of all, the feeling that I'm being punished whenever I get some speed shoes and go fast, only to vault right over the ledge and plunge to my death. That one really bugs me, because the game places the speed shoes right before an area that requires precise platforming. Talk about blue balls.
And I'm one of those people who really likes the Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush games on GBA and DS respectively. I even really like Sonic Adventure 2. The Mega Drive games are supposed to be the pinnacle of the series, and here I am wondering what the hype was all about.
Based on the fact that you, OP, and many others are enjoying Sonic Mania, with many claiming it's the best game in the series gives me confidence to make a purchase. I'm willing to give classic Sonic another chance, but I wanted to articulate my frustrations with the Mega Drive games (I also replayed Sonic 1 somewhat recently and my thoughts on that are that it's worse than 2).
And I'm one of those people who really likes the Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush games on GBA and DS respectively. I even really like Sonic Adventure 2. The Mega Drive games are supposed to be the pinnacle of the series, and here I am wondering what the hype was all about.
Based on the fact that you, OP, and many others are enjoying Sonic Mania, with many claiming it's the best game in the series gives me confidence to make a purchase. I'm willing to give classic Sonic another chance, but I wanted to articulate my frustrations with the Mega Drive games (I also replayed Sonic 1 somewhat recently and my thoughts on that are that it's worse than 2).
Imp the Dimp
Member
Got the game and just beat
and I'm frankly not sure if I'm playing this correctly and I got the exact same questions as the OP. I am playing like I want or how I feel is right and it's little fun. Sonic keeps bumping into stuff left and right, there are very few enemies, very little platforming and very little tension as it does not seem to matter if I lose my rings or not. It just bores me and I have no clue how this game is good. What is a good approach for these games? The only Sonic game I ever played was one on the Game Gear 20+ years ago.
Dr. Wily at Puyo
DarkConfidant
Member
This is exactly my thoughts.^
I just picked up Mania.
As someone who has always enjoyed the music and spectacle of the original 2D Sonic games, I still havent finished any of them because I get bored/confused by the level designs.
It's fun going fast, but then I feel like I'm missing a lot of stuff. He also jumps weird.
The games don't seem to have much depth either with the single button never being used for more than jumping.
I wish they found some way to introduce difficulty without making you slow down.
However I'm enjoying this new one so far.
digitalrelic
Banned
I read the thread and had a proper mindset on how to approach the game vs when I tried to play the past games.
To be honest, flying past a ton of area of the stage still kind of bugs me, but as I said, I plan on returning for a second play through to really soak everything in.
One thing I've seen a lot of people miss when viewing streams and videos of those that aren't into Sonic is...the roll.
Pressing down to tuck into a roll is so important for gaining momentum while dispatching enemies.
I also feel that you just need to ease up a little on the forward momentum in strategic ways.
Once you've mastered a good Sonic level it provides a sensation similar to pulling off a great run in Tony Hawk (oh gee, another old game). This execution is where a lot of the joy stems from. Every time you play a level you improve until you CAN blast through at high speeds.
...but there's also plenty to see and do if you take your time. I just love how versatile the game is and how much it encourages both mastery and exploration.
Pressing down to tuck into a roll is so important for gaining momentum while dispatching enemies.
I also feel that you just need to ease up a little on the forward momentum in strategic ways.
Once you've mastered a good Sonic level it provides a sensation similar to pulling off a great run in Tony Hawk (oh gee, another old game). This execution is where a lot of the joy stems from. Every time you play a level you improve until you CAN blast through at high speeds.
...but there's also plenty to see and do if you take your time. I just love how versatile the game is and how much it encourages both mastery and exploration.
DrDomVonDoom
Member
You gotta go fast, Duh,
IMO, The way Sonic was meant to be played was replaying to perfection.
The first speed runs in a way. It had Time Attack, but it was all about finding the perfect jump points, and in the end leaping through the stages and being as fast as possible all the while dodging enemies and spikes. You can take your time and find everything and thats fine and fun way to play, but then you can learn the quickest paths and least dangerous paths to get to the end. Thats what I think anyway.
IMO, The way Sonic was meant to be played was replaying to perfection.
The first speed runs in a way. It had Time Attack, but it was all about finding the perfect jump points, and in the end leaping through the stages and being as fast as possible all the while dodging enemies and spikes. You can take your time and find everything and thats fine and fun way to play, but then you can learn the quickest paths and least dangerous paths to get to the end. Thats what I think anyway.
shaowebb
Member
- Your goal,make it to the end of stage goal.
- Your secondary goal, get enough rings that when you hit a goalposts checkpoint it activates a bonus stage so that you can try to unlock content by defeating bonus stages.
- Your tertiary goal, find the hidden giant ring entrances to bonus stages so you can try to beat the stages and gather all the chaos emeralds which get you powers and the true ending.
- Stages are on a timer. You need to make it to the goal in time or lose a life so you need to rush. However to get the true ending and the unlocks you need to slow down and explore more. Stages are designed to rapidly shuffle you off at high speeds across long distances with a mix of tricky platforming that requires precision and timing. To overcome long jumps and many platforming areas you have to speed up using a spindash to make the distance which adds the element of forcing folks to occassionally try to do something precise at very high speed.
- High replayabilty due to unlocks and multiple paths per stage to take that entice replaying levels to explore them since the timer and le el design hurries you to try to reach the goal instead of backtracking.
That's how you play Sonic. That's the design in a nutshell. Power ups and collectibles abound but you hit it all at a run. Do I need to slow down? Am I going too fast to avoid threats or spot hidden stages? I hit a goal post and I see it opening a bonus stage...do I keep running to reach the goal in time or stop to attempt to get beat a bonus stage and get the unlockable stuff? I thought I saw a hidden area...do I backtrack in hopes of finding a bonus stage for chaos emeralds or maybe a powerup or keep going so that I dont run out of time?
Enjoy. All you folks new to sonic are in for a treat.
Arc Christelle
Member
Actually... the modern Sonic games perfectly translate the idea of Sonic in game design that works, and may possibly even reward the player better. Atleast imo. Would love to see special stages translated to Modern Games i.e. Unleashed.
The games are built around scoring and using the mechanics in the game to score points to improve your rank. Just like Classic Sonic, those are games that focus on replayability and mastery.
It is literally the same kind of justification and mindset you need for any skill based game. Especially the world's favorite, "League of Legends". Learning what, how, and when to do is a satisfying reward that comes from the unknown.
However just like anything that you could possibly enjoy, you could either try to adapt or drop it. There are people out in the world who've played World 1-1 of SMB and have flat out said "Fuck it."
A good comparison to Sonic is the 2D Metroid games. You're gonna be lost at first and will find yourself frustrated at points. There's not too much risk of dying (outside Metroid NES), so it may seem too easy, and at the same time there are plenty of obstacles to hinder you. You will miss many upgrades and beat the game over 5-10 hours. Then you replay the game with your new experience to get 100% of items, or to beat the game in less than 2 hours. And it's there you really feel a sense of accomplishment.
Though Sonic is a lot easier for new players than Metroid.
Though Sonic is a lot easier for new players than Metroid.
Man, let's not act like this thread didn't have direct shots at Sonic fans from the get go. The OP's incredibly strange questions were like if you were to explain a videogame to anyone who has never played them, yet plenty answered his questions seriously. It was all the other posts that just went straight to "the games are terrible".
Sonic does not send mixed messages. The only way for anyone to think the game is contrived in design is if you expect, nay want, the game to be something else. Which is honestly in the eye of the beholder.
Also, design-literate? Lol.
First of all, comparing "slow" Sonic(which is really like two to three seconds of holding either direction) to the Baby Mario sequences is hyperbole of the highest order.
Sonic does benefit from a different approach because it's a different game compared to Mario. With different abilities, physics, and layout. It's strange that I never see this brought up with Mega Man. Or we don't because the question itself is rather obtuse.
This entire paragraph to me just says "I like the design of Nintendo's side scrollers more than I do the design philosophy for other games". That in itself is fine, because Nintendo makes some damn good games, but that's not a flaw. Liking other games more isn't an inherent flaw to a series that chooses another path.
I've been noticing this all over, and it explains a lot to me. Most who somehow can't wrap their heads around Genesis Sonics don't because the games have sloppy execution, it's because it isn't a Nintendo game. I don't mean that in any dumb console war way, I mean that in how Nintendo designs their games compared to others.
Sonic is a bit more twitchy than Nintendo side scrollers, considering much of the gameplay was inspired by Pinball and having it be developed by a team adept at arcade gameplay that makes a lot of sense. Sonic certainly does demand more of the player, but those reasons are exactly why I prefer the Genesis games over any 2D Mario(Mario is by far the better series, mentioning just in case you misconstrue my words). The issue a lot of people in this thread are having with this thread's question is if that's considered a flaw, and I don't see how that is. A game having a different play style to another game doesn't make it inferior, that's just acting as if subjectivity is objectivity. It all lies in the execution.
And before you ask the questions brought about the series seem to have nothing to do with how it's executed, but more with the game's core concepts which have been put under examination here. And all arguments here seem to boil down to "I like how Mario plays more". That's not a flaw.
Or you could just not buy it, or do. Decide for yourself, really. If a series never did anything for you then why bother. If you're interested just to see if it clicks for you then long posts detailing the essentials might help, but your best bet is figure it out for yourself by playing it and going in with a clean slate. Don't have Mario, Donkey Kong, or what have you in your mind and act as if it's something else entirely. If it clicks, it clicks. If not, play what you like instead.
Nah, because it's honestly a waste of most people's time to explain to others who have said they either don't like or don't get a game why they should. I've wasted too much time in this thread already.
At the bold: That rhetoric is mostly used by those who take themselves way too seriously and only to denounce whatever they don't like, get, etc. That's not an objective truth that could be revealed, that's just a fact that not everybody is going to like everything. Whether they have knowledge when it comes to a subject or not.
And man, I respect you for taking your time to write out this post. But you're not really saying much that hasn't been said in this thread. Majority of your post is "I don't get Sonic, I wish it was more like these Nintendo games" and the rest is shots at Sonic fans. "You had better be prepared to make the case" when there isn't a case.
Sonic, by all accounts, is a simple game. The only way you can state the contrary is if you have some sort of bias, or want the game to be something it's not. Sorry you guys couldn't get into them, but saying "it's the games fault" over and over doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
Interesting. I feel the same way. I simply do not understand the design around speed. I always feel like I miss most of the levels but the game is 0 fun if you are walking because it apparently is designed to be tedious. On the other hand, going super fast makes it super frustrating to run into something which sometimes made me think that the whole game is trial and error to get the level perfectly fine.
Glad you like it OP. Have fun!
Arc Christelle
Member
Press Down to Roll.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Overthinking playing a one button game. Just keep going forward, some platform segments, jump on some enemies and thats it. Find it too simple or boring ? That's fine.
shaowebb
Member
Actually it came about largely because they discovered when transitioning from 2d to 3d it became far more difficult to aim Sonic during platforming segments at the speeds he traveled. Even though he had a shadow trailing under him to help you know where you were landing there were often too many objects or camera difficulties to insure platforming with much accuracy in 3d at high speed as opposed to how well you could control Sonic in 2d.
The homing attack was used as a means to "right the course" should Sonic veer off too far during a high speed jump as he was easily known to do as gamers frequently overshot their jumps or oversteered his descent. They then over used this mechanic to also lead Sonic along paths which is what rings and powerups were generally used to do before when the developers wanted to leave visual clues for players to notice as they sped by. It worked to help with jumping but unfortunately it made enemies a joke. No longer did they pose a threat or challenge during platforming that upped the tension but instead they provided a relief valve guaranteeing easy platforming as opposed to technical moments.
The homing attack did screw things up bad, but it was originally a creation that stop gap attempted to mitigate the difficulty players were having controlling Sonic in 3d with any accuracy.
Glad you're enjoying it, man.
I don't really like how Mega Man controls. The complete lack of momentum is alien to me and means platforming has almost no approximation; it's all on my own input and as soon as I let go of the D-Pad the blue bomber hits a dead stop. It's more precise than Sonic or Mario, but it feels awkward trying to calculate my jump arc when letting go of the D-pad means coming short. And the classic Mega Man games have some hard platforming. You want to talk about having time to react in Sonic? Several Mega Man stages include actual trial and error, where the only way to avoid an insta-kill is to have played before and know what's coming. And thanks to how open the start is, there's basically no difficulty curve until you reach Wiley's Castles, at which point the difficulty spikes up hard.
"Oh but you can use this item/weapon/Rush to make this hard part of the game easier"
Yes you can. How is a new player supposed to know that though with all the different paths? It's something you only really begin to appreciate as you explore the game more.
But that doesn't really make Mega Man wrong. Just different from what I'm used to. And putting in the effort really made me appreciate the games. They have creative level design, great music, varied bosses, and a nice open endedness with their mechanics.
If you can understand a game like Mega Man that throws so many curveballs at you right from the start of the game, you can understand Sonic.
Me too, I just thought your point was a good example of how Sonic's hardly alone in eschewing the conventions of games like Mario.
Randall365
Member
3 Rules:
1. Go as fast as you can - Sonic's speed is the selling point.
2. Get as many rings as you can without slowing down.
3. If you get hit, try to scramble to get at least one ring back.
Other than that, it is about steady progression each time (which involves learning tricky bits) and at least with the save feature, zones do not need to be replayed each time.
1. Go as fast as you can - Sonic's speed is the selling point.
2. Get as many rings as you can without slowing down.
3. If you get hit, try to scramble to get at least one ring back.
Other than that, it is about steady progression each time (which involves learning tricky bits) and at least with the save feature, zones do not need to be replayed each time.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
No time to respond to the lengthy and considered replies to my other posts at the moment, but a quick update: I did in fact pick up Mania on an impulse today and am enjoying it a lotprobably the most I've liked a Sonic game to date, in factand I think some of the better strands of conversation in this thread assisted a great deal with setting the right context: treating the stages like surviving a pinball machine rather than mentally mapping it out, for instance, and not fretting about missing paths and not having an obvious way to get back on them. Probably the strongest thing I can say in favour of Mania so far is that it makes me want to go back and reconsider Sonic 1. (Mega Man 9 did the same thing, but my baseline admiration for NES Mega Man was higher.) "Slow Sonic" also feels a lot more playable as a precision platformer than I remember the old games being.
j^aws
Member
The Sonic games are meant to be played like old-school Arcade games from the 80s and 90s - namely:
1) Play to completion using as many Credits as possible, usually 1 Credit = 3 lives, or
2) Play to completion using the stock number of lives given with just 1 Credit (no continuing from after losing all your starting lives), or
3) Play for maximum score, using the games scoring system, which usually involves using 1 Credit and finding the optimum scoring path from A to B.
Most people play Arcade games as option 1), where they would credit-feed a game to completion.
The best Arcade games are highly replayable, and because they are also enjoyable, encourage experimentation and exploration induced by level design and game mechanics. Some may move on to option 2).
Option 3) is when an Arcade game is engaging enough, one may look at breaking scoring records, be it a personal best or something beyond. Not many approach this due to the skill and dedication required. Moreover, after repeat playthroughs, the game may out stay its welcome.
Arcade games, of the best kind, are a lost art. You can see this in modern reviews, where complaints are made for a games brevity, and the reviewer views the playthrough as option 1), and completely misses the point of these types of games compared to modern play-once, throw-away games padded to the wazoo.
Play Sonic however it pleases you.
Probably already said in here but the only thing that really annoys me about Sonic mechanics is the time limit. It seems dumb, out of place, and nonsensical. 10 minutes is an arbitrary time limit and it makes no sense when there is so much level to explore and stuff to find. Not to mention the same time limit caps both the level and the boss of the level, so if you get to the boss with a minute and a half left you're possibly screwed depending on the boss and how well you know the mechanics. Also, why does the time tick up from 0 and stop at 10? If it's a limit it should start at 10 and tick down to 0.
Some Sonic mechanics and gameplay hallmarks that are older still work just fine, but the time limit is dumb.
Some Sonic mechanics and gameplay hallmarks that are older still work just fine, but the time limit is dumb.
j^aws
Member
Time limits are required for exploratory score-based games, otherwise you would have infinite time to beat records. This is not too dissimilar to auto-scrolling 2D shoot-em-ups, where the auto-scroll intrinsically creates a time limit for scoring.
I was never so hot on the time limit in these games, but I DO think they serve sort of a meta purpose of enforcing a limit on the design of stages. Knowing players have the time limit would deter you from designing stages that are TOO long and overstay their welcome. Heck, one particular stage in Sonic Mania is already skirting the edge of that time limit and it hasn't gone unnoticed by players.
Sonic 1 is not a good place to go back to if you enjoy Sonic Mania. The game is extremely flawed because it doesn't capitalize on the strengths of Sonic after Green Hill, and it has some zones that are just awful (Marble Zone, Labyrinth Zone). Play Sonic 2 or 3&Knuckles.
The time limit in 2D Sonic makes about as much sense as the time limit in 2D Mario.
Blueingreen
Member
The games are about finnese, they're straight forward mostly linear platform's that are grounded in getting from point A to B as efficiently as possible, very self explanatory, did this thread need to drag on for 10 pages?
After decades of playing shitty Sonic games and starting to feel like Sonic was never actually good because of that, Sonic Mania proved me wrong.
I think I finally understand why Sonic Mania succeed where more than a decade of Sonic Team product failed.
At its core, Sonic is about the player reaching the end.
The score is nice and all but in the end if you reach the end with 1 ring for each level and manage to get all the emeralds anyway you're still gonna get the best ending.
3D Sonic in comparison is always all about the speed with little exploration because the focus on speed is so strong.
The games punished you for taking your time trying to find shortcuts in ways the original (and Mania) never did.
I can play 2D Sonic games like a speedrunner or like an adventure game trying to scour all the nook and crannies of the humongous levels.
It's what made Sonic click and is severely lacking in the 3D games.
I think I finally understand why Sonic Mania succeed where more than a decade of Sonic Team product failed.
At its core, Sonic is about the player reaching the end.
The score is nice and all but in the end if you reach the end with 1 ring for each level and manage to get all the emeralds anyway you're still gonna get the best ending.
3D Sonic in comparison is always all about the speed with little exploration because the focus on speed is so strong.
The games punished you for taking your time trying to find shortcuts in ways the original (and Mania) never did.
I can play 2D Sonic games like a speedrunner or like an adventure game trying to scour all the nook and crannies of the humongous levels.
It's what made Sonic click and is severely lacking in the 3D games.
Once you beat the game you'll be able to go back to previous levels.
