FloppyDelux
Member
Cant wait, already pre-ordered it on XBONE.
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Engadget: Cuphead is as wondrous as it is difficult
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
ScaryShark
Banned
The video kind of already solidified it for me but I'm definitely never paying attention to VentureBeat's video game coverage in a serious way ever again.
The Illiterati
Member
I think you're right he doesn't need to be shamed. He just needs to not ever post video gameplay again, and people in the know can understand he's horrible at games which colors his reviews/coverage. He wouldn't be the first person who is horrible at their job, and in a country run by the worst example of this, I think a poor games journalist shouldn't register on our outrage scale(just our point and laugh scale).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Honestly it's not even about playing games bad or not really being into games. It's just the simple concept of problem solving. Why try something that doesn't work repeatedly?
exmachina64
Banned
Remember Jim Sterling's original Hellblade review?
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I think that's a legit terrible tutorial.
Oh wow, that's actually pretty cheap i was expecting a higher price tag*
*= do note due to my location the page shows mexican price.
Alien Hominid was more like a traditional run and gun like contra or metal slug, Cuphead is taking "Megaman: The power battle" concept and expanding it immensely.
I think it's pretty bloody clear in what it wants you to do to progress.
He encountered a game breaking issue. Where's the connection?
exmachina64
Banned
He repeated the same section dozens of times trying to get past it.
I mean I'm no pro gamer but I feel like games have at least encouraged a certain amount of abstraction to my thought process.
Jump on big platform
Tall jump does not reach it
Try jump from taller platform
Oh I cannot reach
Try jump plus dash from taller platform
I feel like the guy was willingly wanting to be terrible. Or at least approaching the game where he was not actually letting the game mechanics sink in (I noted a disregard for 8 way fire in the way he was playing initially).
Same for me. I'm not a pro, but I needed less than 10 seconds to reach to the conclussion that I had to Jump+Dash from the cube platform. He spends over a minute on it. I'd say any person that is used to playing games would have reached the same conclussion quite soon. Looking for a higher ground to reach a platform is Gaming Problem Solving 101.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Exactly, it's not something gaming related but rather problem solving related. Don't want to be rude, but even animals could process problems faster than him.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
Video game journalists should be average gamers at worst.
To people saying "he doesn't need to be able to play games well just needs to critique them" thats like reading bicycle review from a bicycle reviewer that doesn't know how to ride a bike without training wheels.
When it's your job to critique or review something you should understand how to participate in the thing you are tasked with.
To people saying "he doesn't need to be able to play games well just needs to critique them" thats like reading bicycle review from a bicycle reviewer that doesn't know how to ride a bike without training wheels.
When it's your job to critique or review something you should understand how to participate in the thing you are tasked with.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
It looks incredibly straight forward to me.
My only complaint here is that they made B-button the Super Move and Y-button Dash, I feel like those should be swapped. Either that or Rb as Dash. I'm sure it's probably customizable though.
Leatherface
Member
It's finally here! GAAHHHH!
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
You know the definition of insanity?
Sorry to be the no fun police, but I dont think you do
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-therapy/200907/the-definition-insanity-is
Its actually not, That part that people are discussing is making you follow a directive and think creatively at the same time, that leads to confusion
Just stop.
It's basically rocket science, who would ever think that jumping from a higher position would make your jump reach higher
it's the dark souls of tutorial
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Just a note - whether someone thinks the controls are bad or whatever is totally an opinion thing, but I can comment on the control structure of Cuphead:
- There is no momentum at all - Cuphead controls with a binary movement speed
- There is no animation priority or delay
- Cuphead responds immediately to controller inputs
If you've played a Contra or Gunstar Heroes game...or even any shmup from the 16bit era, you'll know exactly what I mean. There are no exaggerated movements - when you press a direction, Cuphead starts moving in that direction at his singular movement speed. When you stop pressing that direction, Cuphead immediately stops on a dime.
It's structured this way to allow the player respond instantaneously to any stimuli. There's nothing predictive about Cuphead's structure, it's designed to be immediately reactive.
Now, if you think that sucks, that's totally cool, but I can state that the core controls have zero animation priority.
Lynd7
Member
Saw that gameplay being thrown around on Twitter today. I think it makes him look really stupid, but at the same time I don't think it's worth trying to crucify the guy over.
My take would be that it seems hard to fathom someone that has been in the industry for the amount of time he has, that he wouldn't instantly recognise what to do. This is basic stuff and has been employed in many, many games in the past.
It shouldn't be hateful to call him out and discuss it politely, which people on Twitter are starting to say, even calling the tutorial poor in design.
Sometimes when reviewers or people new to a certain game make mistakes or play the game slowly or whatever, but this particular example is very strange coming from an industry veteran.
My take would be that it seems hard to fathom someone that has been in the industry for the amount of time he has, that he wouldn't instantly recognise what to do. This is basic stuff and has been employed in many, many games in the past.
It shouldn't be hateful to call him out and discuss it politely, which people on Twitter are starting to say, even calling the tutorial poor in design.
Sometimes when reviewers or people new to a certain game make mistakes or play the game slowly or whatever, but this particular example is very strange coming from an industry veteran.
Dean is bad at games (and at getting basic facts right), but:
1) That's pretty much how I play platformers that aren't Sonic. I just can't fuck with non-momentum based gameplay so that video would be useful in letting me know that I shouldn't get Cuphead if I wasn't already well aware of that.
2) That tutorial is pretty terrible, as explained better than I could here. Basically, either make your tutorial free-form or give direct instructions, not both. If you're telling someone to dash to get past an onstacle, but dashing wont get them past that obstacle, what do you expect to happen?
1) That's pretty much how I play platformers that aren't Sonic. I just can't fuck with non-momentum based gameplay so that video would be useful in letting me know that I shouldn't get Cuphead if I wasn't already well aware of that.
2) That tutorial is pretty terrible, as explained better than I could here. Basically, either make your tutorial free-form or give direct instructions, not both. If you're telling someone to dash to get past an onstacle, but dashing wont get them past that obstacle, what do you expect to happen?
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
ho my god, never saw that dean takahashi video.... he's so bad at this, it's just too fun to watch him struggle
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It's like an automotive journalist who never got his driving license and is just winging his career. Shameful.
These are the type of morons who influence game design too. Back when I was a pup Cuphead would just be considered a standard game. Now it's mega difficult and only for a certain type of audience.
We had a thread a while back too stating that Ori is too difficult. Ori is like a masterfully designed game with the difficulty / learning curve / reward tuned to perfection. It's really hard to nail that and very rare that it happens, yet lot's of people just want it to be easy instead.
These are the type of morons who influence game design too. Back when I was a pup Cuphead would just be considered a standard game. Now it's mega difficult and only for a certain type of audience.
We had a thread a while back too stating that Ori is too difficult. Ori is like a masterfully designed game with the difficulty / learning curve / reward tuned to perfection. It's really hard to nail that and very rare that it happens, yet lot's of people just want it to be easy instead.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Well thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Out of interest, are you able to say the kind of feedback you've been getting from the press when you have been showing the game off? Are people making a big deal regarding the difficulty of the game and saying its too tough, are you worried about how that might impact its reception.
Disclaimer, the challenge and difficulty scale look pefect to me im more thinking about press and journalists.
PSlayer
Member
Suzushiiro
Banned
I didn't see The Video until recently but Jesus Fucking CHRIST.
Like, there are a lot of situations where telling someone LOL U SUCK GIT GUD is over the line. And honestly I would understand if they quickly realized that the key to making the jump was to jump from the block but didn't put together that they could air dash at all, or took a bit to get the air dash timing right to make the jump. I'd also have sympathy if they had admitted that they played like shit and/or that they weren't good at that sort of game or whatever else. But if you straight-up hump the wall not realizing that you can't jump over it from ground level for that long, and then blame the game developers when people mock you for it, you're corncobbing yourself:
Take the fucking L, admit you made an ass of yourself, move the fuck on, and everyone else will move on with you. Anything else is just digging a deeper hole.
Like, there are a lot of situations where telling someone LOL U SUCK GIT GUD is over the line. And honestly I would understand if they quickly realized that the key to making the jump was to jump from the block but didn't put together that they could air dash at all, or took a bit to get the air dash timing right to make the jump. I'd also have sympathy if they had admitted that they played like shit and/or that they weren't good at that sort of game or whatever else. But if you straight-up hump the wall not realizing that you can't jump over it from ground level for that long, and then blame the game developers when people mock you for it, you're corncobbing yourself:
Take the fucking L, admit you made an ass of yourself, move the fuck on, and everyone else will move on with you. Anything else is just digging a deeper hole.
backflip10019
Member
In my personal dealings with him, he had big trouble with another simple gaming task that every other person who tried picked up easily. Not going to elaborate further than that, but this seems like a trend for him specifically.
Ahaha people trying to defend this guy.
Peep this:
Four year old knows better than game journalist
People like him shouldn't be previewing or reviewing anything. How can this guy be a 25-year veteran of this industry?
Peep this:
Four year old knows better than game journalist
People like him shouldn't be previewing or reviewing anything. How can this guy be a 25-year veteran of this industry?
Shai-Tan
Banned
You don't know he's not good at other games and it's not like the guy is an authoritative voice in games criticism. He reports for a site that focuses on the games business. I've been playing less games in fewer genres and my skills in some genre are much worse than they used to be. Some are trying to use it as an example that proves a rule like that wouldn't be intellectually lazy.
Madventure
Member
Saw it earlier
Shai-Tan
Banned
He isn't the only one who made that mistake. It's been a while now but I remember a few instances of that discussion listening to podcasts. The interface in the first game was terrible. I'm not saying the he is good at games but the bandwagon behind the criticism is not constructive and reflective of bad attitudes in the games community.
Don't eve play Megaman X if this is your mindset, you'll think everything about it is rubbish.
Saw it earlier
This hurt my soul
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
This is so damn cute that my cold, dark heart can't take it. Time to go play DOOM or something..
Just saw this shitstorm pass by on Twitter, and people are really hyperboling again imo. Okay, the guy sucks at this game and his problem solving skills are lacking. But to immediatly crucify the guy (and for some to an extent generalise this to the whole of games journalism) is just silly.
First and foremost. This guy is not reviewing this game. He's playing it on Gamescom in a hands-on. I'm pretty confident his editors won't send him the review copy after this. I am not familiar with the guy (who, I've read, mostly writes about the business side of gaming?), but maybe he is just more versed in other games? I have previewed stuff like Project Cars 2, while I suck at racing sims. But you know, when you're at a developpers or on an event, there are much more ways to research your text then just playtime.
Secondly. Playing something at Gamescom or E3 is quite differently then playing at home. This is probably recorderd in the business area, so the circumstances will have been better than on the floor (where you can barely hear the sound of the game, people are constantly passing by, etc), but it can still be a distracting experience. I've noticed I always play worse on events than in the comfort of home. You might be standing up while playing, taking notes, or there could be a developper next to you constantly talking so your mind is on two things at the same time. Again, I don't know the circumstances of this gameplay, but it is also something I take into account.
Thirdly: this video is played of for laughs by the guy himself. The titel has shameful in it. He admits sucking at the game, which in my experience IS very hard. (I've seen many struggle with it, and that's okay. It's designed to be challenging)
I don't believe you have to be a master in games to be able to (p)review them. Even if you suck at a particular game, you can still give it your time and patience to get to know it's mechanics and write your thoughts about it. I do believe you best limit yourself to reviewing games in genres you are invested in (don't ask me to write a RTS review for instance). But again, this guy wasn't even reviewing this thing.
First and foremost. This guy is not reviewing this game. He's playing it on Gamescom in a hands-on. I'm pretty confident his editors won't send him the review copy after this. I am not familiar with the guy (who, I've read, mostly writes about the business side of gaming?), but maybe he is just more versed in other games? I have previewed stuff like Project Cars 2, while I suck at racing sims. But you know, when you're at a developpers or on an event, there are much more ways to research your text then just playtime.
Secondly. Playing something at Gamescom or E3 is quite differently then playing at home. This is probably recorderd in the business area, so the circumstances will have been better than on the floor (where you can barely hear the sound of the game, people are constantly passing by, etc), but it can still be a distracting experience. I've noticed I always play worse on events than in the comfort of home. You might be standing up while playing, taking notes, or there could be a developper next to you constantly talking so your mind is on two things at the same time. Again, I don't know the circumstances of this gameplay, but it is also something I take into account.
Thirdly: this video is played of for laughs by the guy himself. The titel has shameful in it. He admits sucking at the game, which in my experience IS very hard. (I've seen many struggle with it, and that's okay. It's designed to be challenging)
I don't believe you have to be a master in games to be able to (p)review them. Even if you suck at a particular game, you can still give it your time and patience to get to know it's mechanics and write your thoughts about it. I do believe you best limit yourself to reviewing games in genres you are invested in (don't ask me to write a RTS review for instance). But again, this guy wasn't even reviewing this thing.
What are you talking about? Why don't get your facts right, before defending this guy? He even wrote an article about Cuphead, see here: https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/24/...nutes-of-shame-with-an-old-time-cartoon-game/
Also, they will not send him a copy? So what? He can just buy it himself/or VentureBeat and review it. I'm pretty sure he will write a review and write something like 2/10. Too difficult.
flipswitch
Member
I decided to look at some videos of this on YouTube. I had only seen screens but never in action. After 5 mins I had a smile on my face. This looks brilliant and totally up my alley. I love the classic old time animations, characters and boss fights all look hilarious.
That's why I was a little hesitant in what I said. It really felt like the guy rushed into the game and just wasn't thinking. A lot of games are set up to cater for that and will let you coast through, allowing you to pick up the reigns if you lock in. This looks like it doesn't let you do that and absolutely needs you to 100% grasp the rules and mechanics from the get go. As such, he delivered a poor demo, which it was.
Eh? What are you talking about? I said he didn't REVIEW the thing. Which he didn't. He wrote a hands on preview, without passing judgement, just describing his experience (which, he starts of with as: I suck at this. He's not faulting the game for his sucking, he faults himself). As I said, there is nothing wrong with being bad at a game, talking to the creators, gathering info and still write an article about it.
Your last sentence is exactly the kind of silly hyperbole I am talking about. It's all assumptions, with no base of fact, based on a bias that 'journalist suck at games and they will pan a game because they are bad, not the game!" (I also seaid his editor won't let him review it, not that the devs won't send him a copy. You might want to read a reply first before you punch in a gut reaction)
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