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[Sadsic]

I think virgin shaming really only applies to people who don't want to be virgins but are

like if you choose to be a virgin because of some sort of conviction or are asexual, i dont think many people would really virgin shame you, since you arent going to feel inadequate for a choice you made consciously/genetic predisposition

on the flipside, if you clearly wanted to have sex with someone, were able bodied, and still werent able to as an adult, virgin shaming would probably actually be "appropriate", because that person is probably really ashamed already that they cant have sex and want to

the way to make the sting of virgin shaming go away would be to have sex then if you actually want that, since i doubt people in sexually tolerant countries are going to give up the genie of morally unattached sex

 

[Talas]

It really isn’t. Good sex is one of life’s best feelings.

From my point of view as an asexual, it isn't. I do it for my partner, not for me.

 

[Conciliator]

one of the many ways that we seek to quickly categorize and judge others is based on their love/sex life. It really is so weird and picky how much we obsess over the sex others are or are not having and if it's within the range of what we consider acceptable. Too little sex? Too much sex? Too weird? Too vanilla? Lost your virginity too old? Too young? Too slow? Too fast? Too romantic, or too afraid of catching feelings? Like who out there actually has a sexual identity and experience, deep down, that matches up to the incredible social weight we put on each other about sex?

also "too" is a weird word

 

[JohnMatrix]

There are people unhappy with a lot of things they can't change.

If you don't mind me asking, why can't you change it?

 

[Kinsei]

If you don't mind me asking, why can't you change it?

My virginity is another way society makes me feel like a worthless freak but since I'd rather cut my dick off than have sex with it there's really nothing I can do about it.

.

 

[God Dayumm]

Sex is power.

If you don't have sex you don't have power.

If you don't have power you are weak.

"Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power."

 

[Shredderi]

Yes, making up stories about things you have no experience with never backfires.

I already said in my post you quoted that it would have to be normal and plausible. To most people (even virgins) sex isn't some alien concept. The thing about hearing about it from EVERYONE around in all walks of life is that you have a lot of anecdotals to help construct a story like that. You just can't be categorically stupid and it's easy to pull off, just like lying about anything else in life you haven't experienced personally yet.

Ideally you have friends you won't feel the need to lie about something like this, but not everyone is so lucky.

 

[Autoignition]

I call certain men virgins because it's the only thing that seems to sting them as hard as their blatant misogyny stings at me. Even if they're realistically not virgins, it hurts them.

It's the only ammo I have, fam.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

The idea that you can just make fun of someone over and over until they change their ways is a dangerous one. You might get the goal accomplished, but that definitely doesn't sound good for one's mental state.

As for an inherent stigma, I don't think that'll ever go away. Just don't be a dick because someone hasn't had sex yet. There are tons of factors that go into that, but beyond that, maybe the person just doesn't care enough to get it done/has other priorities to get done first.

 

[LyleLanley]

Just hire an escort and get it over with.

Honestly I think this would probably be bad advice for a lot of people who are virgins later into their life despite not wanting to be.

 

[Zolo]

Honestly I think this would probably be bad advice for a lot of people who are virgins later into their life despite not wanting to be.

Yeah. It feels confidence-wise worse that you have to go with an escort over a regular person to date.

 

[Haly]

Honestly I think this would probably be bad advice for a lot of people who are virgins later into their life despite not wanting to be.

Yeah. It's not the virginity per se, but how it's lost. If someone has self esteem issues because of their sex life (or lack thereof) hiring an escort might just exacerbate it.

 

[wandering]

If you don't mind me asking, why can't you change it?

Asexual people exist.

 

[God Dayumm]

I think virgin shaming really only applies to people who don't want to be virgins but are

like if you choose to be a virgin because of some sort of conviction or are asexual, i dont think many people would really virgin shame you, since you arent going to feel inadequate for a choice you made consciously/genetic predisposition

on the flipside, if you clearly wanted to have sex with someone, were able bodied, and still werent able to as an adult, virgin shaming would probably actually be "appropriate", because that person is probably really ashamed already that they cant have sex and want to

the way to make the sting of virgin shaming go away would be to have sex then if you actually want that, since i doubt people in sexually tolerant countries are going to give up the genie of morally unattached sex

Asexuals get virgin shamed all the time. There are people in this forum that don't believe asexuality even exists.

And sex requires consent, it isn't just "have sex then"

 

[notaskwid]

I was a virgin till my 25s. I remember how awful it felt prior to that. It was hard to pinpoint why was I such a sad case compared to my friends who were not better looking really or more suave. None of then "manned up" and got some. All of them just had luck falling on their laps earlier (we're a group of like minded nerds). How I finally ended up losing my virginity? By omitting the virginity part. Instead of being a virgin, it was "it's been a while so I might be a bit rusty" instead. Losing virginity changed nothing for me except that people didn't perceive me as "broken" anymore.

I'm still no better or confident than a virgin would be (since it was just that one time). Seems to make more of a difference to other people rather than me.

I was too, but was honest about it and been getting it regularly since. As for if I'm more confident... maybe a bit, but it was no revelation that turned my life around.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

I'm a virgin, though that has far more to do with how barren my dating life has been than anything else.

I was never really interested in dating anyone at all during my high school years and then when I got interested in trying to date during community college it only ended up sprouting a ton of drama on my personal life and having a really negative impact on my classes. Never really bothered to try and look into dating during college proper either as a result of those disasters in community college.

Now that I'm out of college though, I'm looking to try and start properly dating someone in the near future. We'll see what happens, I guess.

 

[Nafai1123]

You're arguing in a thread about virgins being shamed by others that any individual's insecurity about being a virgin is their own fault. Do you not see how backwards that is?

I'm arguing that a virgin who feels insecure about their virginity feels that way because they're uncomfortable being a virgin, and that remaining a virgin will not fix that insecurity. I'm not condoning virgin shaming, I'm just saying what I believe is the best recourse for quelling that insecurity. I say this as someone who had, and still has my own social insecurities.

 

[JohnMatrix]

Yeah. It's not the virginity per se, but how it's lost. If someone has self esteem issues because of their sex life (or lack thereof) hiring an escort might just exacerbate it.

Guys losing their virginity to a prostitute is a fairly common thing though, a lot of sex workers are used to it and know how to handle it appropriately

I'm in Australia where brothels and escorts are completely legal though, it's an open and honest business with professional standards like any other (not too sure how it goes in other countries)

 

[JohnMatrix]

Asexual people exist.

Yeah I'm presuming an asexual person wouldn't lament being unable to lose their virginity

 

[Haly]

I feel like you don't understand what it's like for people with low self-esteem. You're looking at it all wrong. It's about self valuation. If you're frustrated because you're a virgin and you're in a society that stigmatizes virginity, and then you pay an escort to lose it, you may see it as admitting that you can't do it the "normal" way and have to "cheat", i.e. yet another personal failing. Other people might view it the same way. It's really complicated on many socio-cultural levels.

The notions of "normal" and "ideal" play a huge part in depressive type anxiety.

See also: People wanting their first time to be "special"

 

[wandering]

Yeah I'm presuming an asexual person wouldn't lament being unable to lose their virginity

There are gay people who wish they weren't gay.

There are PoC who wish they weren't PoC.

Shaming does a number on you.

 

[Frozenprince]

https://kotaku.com/ask-dr-nerdlove-she-s-more-sexually-experienced-and-i-1818664605/amp

It's always weird to me how the dorky dude I used to go drinking and talk about animes with is now the nerd relationship guru.

 

[LyleLanley]

Yeah. It's not the virginity per se, but how it's lost. If someone has self esteem issues because of their sex life (or lack thereof) hiring an escort might just exacerbate it.

I just think the process of building a relationship up to the point of having sex is a much more important part of growing as a person than the physical act itself.

 

[flintstryker]

There are gay people who wish they weren't gay.

There are PoC who wish they weren't PoC.

Shaming does a number on you.

Really?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I don't think I've ever seen virgin shaming from someone outside of high school. Do adults do this?

At least a few adults in the Deep Silver marketing department thought it was a hilarious idea.

https://youtu.be/YngbHOz--oc?t=1m

 

[Chained Prometheus]

I feel like you don't understand what it's like for people with low self-esteem. You're looking at it all wrong. It's about self valuation. If you're frustrated because you're a virgin and you're in a society that stigmatizes virginity, and then you pay an escort to lose it, you may see it as admitting that you can't do it the "normal" way and have to "cheat", i.e. yet another personal failing. Other people might view it the same way. It's really complicated on many socio-cultural levels.

The notions of "normal" and "ideal" play a huge part in depressive type anxiety.

See also: People wanting their first time to be "special"

Yuuuup, that's me to a T. Personally, I'm not interested in just sex. I want intimacy- physical and emotional.

Hell, part of why I've been uncomfortable with dating is that I'm only really interested in dating someone I already know really well and am good friends with. Which, of course, isn't how most folks want to go about dating.

 

[Haly]

I just think the process of building a relationship up to the point of having sex is a much more important part of growing as a person than the physical act itself.

Yes, I agree completely. The nature of the expectation is highly procedural. There is the idea of a "right way" to do things and if you don't do it the "right way", you're inferior/broken.

 

[JohnMatrix]

I feel like you don't understand what it's like for people with low self-esteem. You're looking at it all wrong. It's about self valuation. If you're frustrated because you're a virgin and you're in a society that stigmatizes virginity, and then you pay an escort to lose it, you may see it as admitting that you can't do it the "normal" way and have to "cheat", i.e. yet another personal failing. Other people might view it the same way. It's really complicated on many socio-cultural levels.

Hey fair enough, I'm just saying there's no real reason to be embarassed about seeing an escort and like I said that's from the view of someone living in a country with liberal attitudes towards it. It's certainly not the answer for everyone regardless.

 

[wandering]

Really?

Yes?

 

[FUME5]

I already said in my post you quoted that it would have to be normal and plausible. To most people (even virgins) sex isn't some alien concept. The thing about hearing about it from EVERYONE around in all walks of life is that you have a lot of anecdotals to help construct a story like that. You just can't be categorically stupid and it's easy to pull off, just like lying about anything else in life you haven't experienced personally yet.

Ideally you have friends you won't feel the need to lie about something like this, but not everyone is so lucky.

Thing is, most people with some experience can smell a bullshit sex story from a mile away, so there's a good chance this hypothetical person is now branded as a virgin and a liar.

 

[JohnMatrix]

There are gay people who wish they weren't gay.

There are PoC who wish they weren't PoC.

Shaming does a number on you.

Totally but I think being honest with yourself is all you can do at the end of the day

Being gay is hard for some people but I'm willing to bet 'not' being gay would be harder

Same with a virgin, if they have a genuine desire to have sex then there is no reason why they should supress that, even if it is driven largely by social construct. People deserve to be happy and being honest about who you are and what you want is fundamental to that, regardless of whether it's easy or not

 

[Haly]

there's no real reason to be embarassed

"Realness" is in the head. I think whether something is real or not matters less to some people than whether they believe it's real or not and it's difficult to change beliefs of these kinds. It's something that builds up in their head all their life and they can't simply logic their way out of it.

 

[flintstryker]

Yes?

You just saying something you think or you know people like this?

 

[wandering]

You just saying something you think or you know people like this?

I grew up that way and it's still something I struggle with.

 

[Poppy]

From my point of view as an asexual, it isn't. I do it for my partner, not for me.

i hope you dont let it make you become bitter and resentful cuz ive had sex to keep my partner off my back before and it has not been good for my mental health at all, but maybe you're ok with it

 

[Laughing Banana]

I'm arguing that a virgin who feels insecure about their virginity feels that way because they're uncomfortable being a virgin, and that remaining a virgin will not fix that insecurity. I'm not condoning virgin shaming, I'm just saying what I believe is the best recourse for quelling that insecurity. I say this as someone who had, and still has my own social insecurities.

So your "best recourse for quelling that insecurity" is...

I'm sorry if you thought that was about you, as it clearly wasn't. Nowhere was I generalizing ALL virgins, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking for the right person. I thought I made that clear.

The fact that you think it WAS about you, and that you therefore think I'm shaming or making generalizations about you, says more about your perception of your virginity than my perception of you. THAT is the point I'm trying to make. It shouldn't matter to me why you're a virgin, nor should my perception of you matter. Any shame or insecurity you feel about it is your own construct.

Gay people don't have the choice to be gay or straight. Their insecurity stems from the rejection of their homosexuality in society.

Maintaining your virginity is a choice for the most part, especially the older you get and more opportunities you have to form relationships. I don't consider the plight of a gay man and a virgin man to be remotely the same thing.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin. If you've made that choice, embrace it. Who cares what other people say, including myself? If insecurity stems from being a virgin, nothing anyone else says or does is going to change that. You have to figure out your self worth and how your sexuality plays into that on your own.

Basically just saying "be proud of yourself" and "Don't let what other people think about you bothering you"?

If only things were always that simple, we'd have cured depression and people with low sense of self-esteen will be magically happier all over the world right now.

 

[bonesmccoy]

There are better things to do than reproduce all the time, despite what every single one of your hundreds of millions of ancestors believed

No not really

 

[Haly]

GAF is so bad with mental health, but this is true of the world all over so it's not really a surprise at this point.

 

[PersonAndStuff]

I think virgin shaming really only applies to people who don't want to be virgins but are

like if you choose to be a virgin because of some sort of conviction or are asexual, i dont think many people would really virgin shame you, since you arent going to feel inadequate for a choice you made consciously/genetic predisposition

on the flipside, if you clearly wanted to have sex with someone, were able bodied, and still werent able to as an adult, virgin shaming would probably actually be "appropriate", because that person is probably really ashamed already that they cant have sex and want to

the way to make the sting of virgin shaming go away would be to have sex then if you actually want that, since i doubt people in sexually tolerant countries are going to give up the genie of morally unattached sex

This paragraph/sentence structure needs be shamed.

 

[CrocMother]

Yeah I'm presuming an asexual person wouldn't lament being unable to lose their virginity

Of course they would, when everyone else makes a big deal out of it.

 

[Queen Vulpix]

I'm basically in the same exact situation, with the same exact issues, except with the genders switched.
I've had quite a few opportunities to go further with women, but I couldn't really connect with them on an emotional level so it didn't work out. I guess my social anxiety disorder has a lot to do with that though.

Yeah, I suffer from quite severe social anxiety as well among my other issues. I've been working on it, therapy, meds etc.. and it is getting better but still a bit to go and will be some time until I can hopefully fully overcome it, can certainly be hard for people to understand how debilitating it can be as well unless they've experienced it first hand.

Ah, fair enough. Yeah I think people place too much importance on heterosexual relationships in the context of something like this. Sorry for telling you stuff you already knew, lol.

It's okay! Haha I certainly agree with that sentiment.

 

[SmackDaddy]

This paragraph/sentence structure needs be shamed.

He's a-formatting yo step off

Question to any asexual people here. What thoughts are running through your head in a conventionally sexual situation?

 

[foxuzamaki]

I was a virgin up until I was 24, I didn't like to say that I was except among close friends and even when I lost my virginity I did not let my partner at the time know I was

 

[Sadsic]

This paragraph/sentence structure needs be shamed.

linguistic prescriptivism is a long and pointless argument in an endless void of constant change

 

[Pein]

Honestly I think this would probably be bad advice for a lot of people who are virgins later into their life despite not wanting to be.

For me it’s not about just the act of sex I wanna feel like I’ve progressed and made improvements in my life that girls Wanna have sex with me because they want too.

I’d feel so shitty if I have to resort to paying for it 😞

But I’m constantly improving I think, I was a kissless virgin a couple of months ago and at least I’m not kissless anymore 😭

 

[Transhuman]

Thing is, most people with some experience can smell a bullshit sex story from a mile away, so there's a good chance this hypothetical person is now branded as a virgin and a liar.

I told you she goes to a different school Dan

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I was a virgin up until I was 24, I didn't like to say that I was except among close friends and even when I lost my virginity I did not let my partner at the time know I was

Is there any reason for that? I mean I'm sure they picked up on someone sucking at it and never mentioning anything. I'm just wondering because you always see people saying that it's better to disclose when you're with someone than keeping quiet about it.

 

[How About No]

So you are embarassed by things that make you happy?

Embarrassment usually makes me NOT want to do things, not try to get better at them

 

[Nafai1123]

So your "best recourse for quelling that insecurity" is...





Basically just saying "be proud of yourself" and "Don't let what other people think about you bothering you"?

If only things were always that simple, we'd have cured depression and people with low sense of self-esteen will be magically happier all over the world right now.

You're completely right. I understand depression and insecurity are self-propagating. I guess I'm just trying to convince people that if they find themselves in a situation where they're connecting with someone on such a level that sex may occur, they should go for it.

 

[kswiston]

Is there any reason for that? I mean I'm sure they picked up on someone sucking at it and never mentioning anything. I'm just wondering because you always see people saying that it's better to disclose when you're with someone than keeping quiet about it.

This is sort of a myth. There's a difference between someone who has been in sexual relationships for years and a virgin. But if you're comparing a virgin with someone who had a one night stand or two with no follow up relationships, the "performance" difference is going to be white noise compared to individuality. You are no more experienced at sex by having it once or twice than you would be at golf after shooting your first 18 holes.

If it gives you less anxiety to claim that you have next to no sexual experience, instead of actually having no sexual experience, I don't see the big deal.