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[MosquitoSmasher]

Japan hasn’t been a supporter of Microsoft for 16 years and never ever will be.

Not sure why Microsoft should start supporting them?

Very true. But what I wonder is does this mean MS doesn't care about bringing Japanese games to the west after all? Or is this solely about MS not really bothering with Japan itself when it comes to potential Xbox customers there?

 

[OceanBlue]

Very true. But what I wonder is does this mean MS doesn't care about bringing Japanese games to the west after all? Or is this solely about MS not really bothering with Japan itself when it comes to potential Xbox customers there?

Going by this thread, I'd imagine that it's due to these publishers refusing free money just to spite Microsoft or something.

 

[Nephtes]

I mean, digital only is the same problem in Japan as Xbox, Japanese consumers have not adopted digital on console like western consumers have. It's more profitable to release a physical version in Japan along with a digital version than it is to go solely digital. Which should be obvious, hence why all the companies are doing it. I know you think you've got it all figured out, but you don't know these companies' market better than they do.
Also LOL at that suggestion. If you really have the ability to port games from PS4 to Xbox by yourself, by all means try and convince these companies to let you port their games. We'll see how that works out for you.

It wasn't an "LOL" suggestion.
I'm being serious.

Have I ported a PC game to Xbox One? No.
Can I?
Absolutely.
I'm a programmer.

Who do I need to get in contact with NIS and Falcom and SE to make this digital only Japanese games on Xbox a reality... Because it seems to me there's money being left on the table, and I like money.

 

[Crayon]

Do we have an operating theory that explains why small Japanese publishers would choose to ignore the alleged money on the table?

 

[Lord of Ostia]

It wasn't an "LOL" suggestion.
I'm being serious.

Have I ported a PC game to Xbox One? No.
Can I?
Absolutely.
I'm a programmer.

Who do I need to get in contact with NIS and Falcom and SE to make this digital only Japanese games on Xbox a reality... Because it seems to me there's money being left on the table, and I like money.

I'm not even sure how to respond to you anymore, tbh.

 

[Aztechnology]

I mean the amount of Xbox One units sold in Japan and PC gamers are nearly non existent there right?

 

[Ricker]

Can you blame them when they sell 1 console a week over there lol

Microsoft tried their best with the launch and early years of the 360,with great exclusive JRPG's(LO,Eternal Sonata,Blue Dragon,Tales of Vesperia and even Enchanted Arms) and it didnt help much...

 

[Heartskips]

I'm not even sure how to respond to you anymore, tbh.

Maybe he's a nigerian prince.

 

[michaelius]

That's not what I'm saying though. All I'm saying is that there are at least a potential big enough base that buys digital only games be it on steam or consoles. And they are acknowledging that for steam, but ignoring for console.

Digital on pc is majority of the market - digital on console is around 30%.

And considering those companies are much more likely to have historical data about xbox games sales they are in much better informed position to decide if it's worth to make xbox version.

 

[Keinning]

Digital on pc is majority of the market - digital on console is around 30%.

And considering those companies are much more likely to have historical data about xbox games sales they are in much better informed position to decide if it's worth to make xbox version.

falcom having sales data about something not sony related? that would be shocking

Falcom is never supporting Xbox so long as the console is on life support in Japan.

never expected them to. which is why it was somewhat surprising to see them giving their input as well

 

[Lord of Ostia]

falcom having sales data about something not sony related? that would be shocking

Falcom is never supporting Xbox so long as the console is on life support in Japan.

 

[LiquidSolid]

It wasn't an "LOL" suggestion.
I'm being serious.

Have I ported a PC game to Xbox One? No.
Can I?
Absolutely.
I'm a programmer.

Who do I need to get in contact with NIS and Falcom and SE to make this digital only Japanese games on Xbox a reality... Because it seems to me there's money being left on the table, and I like money.

This armchair publisher/businessman shit is getting pretty sad now. Those publishers have been around for a while now and if they haven't released titles on Xbox before, they have access to the numbers other games have sold on it, so this ridiculous idea that they have no clue what they're doing by avoiding Xbox and that there's so much money left on the table is some deluded shit. I don't even remember the Wii U third party support threads getting this bad.

falcom having sales data about something not sony related? that would be shocking

Why do you think market research groups like Media Create and NPD exist?

 

[Grazzt]

This doesn’t bother me because I don’t like Japanese games anyway.
Beside, most Japanese companies now focus on mobile games which are more profitable. And Japanese players have lost interest in console gaming.
So why would MS support them?

 

[Keinning]

Why do you think market research groups like Media Create and NPD exist?

To Falcom? I'm not sure. If they had followed it carefully they might have realized that nintendo consoles had potential for their games after the sufamicom and still they stuck with sony (and just sony) all this time.

 

[Aters]

It wasn't an "LOL" suggestion.
I'm being serious.

Have I ported a PC game to Xbox One? No.
Can I?
Absolutely.
I'm a programmer.

Who do I need to get in contact with NIS and Falcom and SE to make this digital only Japanese games on Xbox a reality... Because it seems to me there's money being left on the table, and I like money.

On one hand, it might work. Those projects are handled by very small studios anyway. On the other hand, I'm sure others would have tried it if there really is that much money on the table.

 

[Nephtes]

I'm not even sure how to respond to you anymore, tbh.

By getting me contact information and a Japanese translator ...
You're telling me game companies won't port games from PC to Xbox because it costs $$$. I'm saying they don't even have to give me anything up front, and I'll do it for 50% of revenue generated.

If Nier Automata came to Xbox digitally only, how many copies would you wager it would sell? Even at a reduced price of $30 in the West.

Microsoft takes 30% off the top and I get 50% of the remainder? Those sound like good numbers to me.

Initial costs of investment on my part: time, Xbox One dev kit

Given the PC source code and assests for a game and time, I'm sure I could get it done.

This is all assuming that the ENTIRE reason devs don't release on Xbox is because porting their PC version to Xbox would cost them too much.
Personally, I don't think that's the reason...

Maybe he's a nigerian prince.

No.
I mean, maybe Nigerian Princes can also be software developers, but I'm not.
I'm just a regular old developer from New Orleans procrastinating on GAF when I should be prototyping a new feature.

This armchair publisher/businessman shit is getting pretty sad now. Those publishers have been around for a while now and if they haven't released titles on Xbox before, they have access to the numbers other games have sold on it, so this ridiculous idea that they have no clue what they're doing by avoiding Xbox and that there's so much money left on the table is some deluded shit. I don't even remember the Wii U third party support threads getting this bad.

Honestly, I agree with you.
It seems to me there has to be some reason... Some extenuating circumstance that prevents companies from targeting the Xbox, even digitally only.

For all I know, Microsoft has some contractual clause mandating that if another console gets a physical release then the Xbox must also.

For the super niche games, maybe it does make sense to skip Xbox.
But for the bigger Japanese games with SE and Atlus that are localized for the west... I don't know why they would skip Xbox.

 

[BocoDragon]

I miss the days when MS busted their ass to get Japanese support.

Honestly they could have made it in Japan with the first Xbox. Look at Apple products over there... it's kind of an old myth that Japan only likes local products. But the physical hardware design and branding was so aggro American xtreme and just didn't click at all with the more minimalist design popular in Japan.

 

[Metzhara]

"Honestly speaking, Microsoft's approach to Japanese games hasn't been very supportive."
This is uninformative. Define "supportive". My issue with this is it does not convey actual circumstances but rather placates to a perception very easily.
What support does NIS require to get their game out? Are these demands reasonable? Is Microsoft "unsupportive" (lack of support does not mean causing functional problems doing so.)
The "also" statement of MS having minimum order quantities clearly isn't their holdup as they added it as a post-statement. So what outside of this order minimum is required to be supportive?
We do not know because the statement is unfortunately lacking. Either by omission in article or by "drive by comment" on the part of NIS.
What we do know is the following statement is more accurate: Xbox sells horribly in Japan. I personally do not believe MS can do anything about that, though this doesn't answer whether or not they should try. 3 Generations, 2 with legitimate marketing attempts (entire branches devoted to trying to make those ties with native Japanese workers) and nothing.
When someone says, "You don't support me" you have to ask, are you insisting someone carries you or is there a mutual give/take? Personally, I'm suspicious of the statement and feel it's much more of a corporate "here's your reason you'll gobble up" rather than any real indication as to why they don't actually work with MS, just done in a Japanese way.
Perhaps it's a basic business decision for Japanese-centric businesses to not take the risk on the "possible" sales when data on their own shores shows it wouldn't sell on an Xbox because no one owns an Xbox in Japan. To me, that makes much more sense and is much more informative than "we're not supported" (but I cannot define what support would be.)

 

[LiquidSolid]

To Falcom? I'm not sure. If they had followed it carefully they might have realized that nintendo consoles had potential for their games after the sufamicom and still they stuck with sony (and just sony) all this time.

I have no clue where you got that idea. Falcom stuck with the PC after the SNES, the only time their games appeared on the PS1 or PS2 was when other publishers licensed and ported them themselves. They didn't start officially supporting any other systems until the PSP, where their (in-house) ports did well enough for them to completely move over to it.

 

[Keinning]

Honestly they could have made it in Japan with the first Xbox. Look at Apple products over there...

not sure a great example to follow

I have no clue where you got that idea. Falcom stuck with the PC after the SNES, the only time their games appeared on the PS1 or PS2 was when other publishers licensed and ported them themselves. They didn't start officially supporting any other systems until the PSP, where their (in-house) ports did well enough for them to completely move over to it.

There was another handheld during PSP days which had bigger success
And then it had a successor, also reaching great success and selling more than the psp successor, and falcom still maintained focus only on it
Market research groups sure know which consoles i'm talking about.

 

[Mr-Joker]

I miss the days when MS busted their ass to get Japanese support.

Honestly they could have made it in Japan with the first Xbox. Look at Apple products over there... it's kind of an old myth that Japan only likes local products. But the physical hardware design and branding was so aggro American xtreme and just didn't click at all with the more minimalist design popular in Japan.

That's one of the reason the Xbox brand just doesn't appeal to me as it feels too US centric with titles that focuses towards the shooter crowds, a genre that I am not really interested in.

Plus I hated the original Xbox and its controller design and I am not even Japanese.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Japan hasn’t been a supporter of Microsoft for 16 years and never ever will be.

Not sure why Microsoft should start supporting them?

xD

Because of all the games we want to play that are purely defacto PS4 console exclusvies?
Pout and take their ball home if they want to, we'll just spend our money & time elsewhere.

 

[Nephtes]

"Honestly speaking, Microsoft's approach to Japanese games hasn't been very supportive."
This is uninformative. Define "supportive". My issue with this is it does not convey actual circumstances but rather placates to a perception very easily.
What support does NIS require to get their game out? Are these demands reasonable? Is Microsoft "unsupportive" (lack of support does not mean causing functional problems doing so.)
The "also" statement of MS having minimum order quantities clearly isn't their holdup as they added it as a post-statement. So what outside of this order minimum is required to be supportive?
We do not know because the statement is unfortunately lacking. Either by omission in article or by "drive by comment" on the part of NIS.
What we do know is the following statement is more accurate: Xbox sells horribly in Japan. I personally do not believe MS can do anything about that, though this doesn't answer whether or not they should try. 3 Generations, 2 with legitimate marketing attempts (entire branches devoted to trying to make those ties with native Japanese workers) and nothing.
When someone says, "You don't support me" you have to ask, are you insisting someone carries you or is there a mutual give/take? Personally, I'm suspicious of the statement and feel it's much more of a corporate "here's your reason you'll gobble up" rather than any real indication as to why they don't actually work with MS, just done in a Japanese way.
Perhaps it's a basic business decision for Japanese-centric businesses to not take the risk on the "possible" sales when data on their own shores shows it wouldn't sell on an Xbox because no one owns an Xbox in Japan. To me, that makes much more sense and is much more informative than "we're not supported" (but I cannot define what support would be.)

^ this

Best post in this thread.

 

[The Giant]

Majority of Japanese devs will never support Xbox. It's just a lost cause.

MS just needs to realise that and give up trying to get more support.

 

[LiquidSolid]

There was another handheld during PSP days which had bigger success
And then it had a successor, also reaching great success and selling more than the psp successor, and falcom still maintained focus only on it
Market research groups sure know which consoles i'm talking about.

lol, yeah, I'm sure Trails in the Sky totally would've ran on the DS.

Falcom was very successful on PSP and then PS3/Vita, so I'd love to know what the hell your point is (assuming it isn't just console wars bullshit). There's no reason to believe they magically would've been more successful on DS/3DS.

 

[JamesHolden]

Japanese Gamers don't support non-Japanese consoles.

 

[Keinning]

lol, yeah, I'm sure Trails in the Sky totally would've ran on the DS.

Falcom was very successful on PSP and then PS3/Vita, so I'd love to know what the hell your point is (assuming it isn't just console wars bullshit). There's no reason to believe they magically would've been more successful on DS/3DS.

I'm sure nintendo had a console where it would work when they released WW in 2014

It's not magic, it would have been more successful, because i'm not defending them being nintendo exclusives, but ports - unless you don't think trails in the sky would sell enough to at least cover port costs in a nintendo console for whatever reason and i am the one curious now

 

[RichiRamjag]

This armchair publisher/businessman shit is getting pretty sad now. Those publishers have been around for a while now and if they haven't released titles on Xbox before, they have access to the numbers other games have sold on it, so this ridiculous idea that they have no clue what they're doing by avoiding Xbox and that there's so much money left on the table is some deluded shit. I don't even remember the Wii U third party support threads getting this bad.



Why do you think market research groups like Media Create and NPD exist?

Every knucklehead on gaf thinks they have the cure for what ails companies.

 

[The Pet of the Month]

Majority of Japanese devs will never support Xbox. It's just a lost cause.

MS just needs to realise that and give up trying to get more support.

On one end, I hear endless complaints about the Xbox One not getting Japanese support. On the other, folks are saying "give it up".

Darned if you do, darned if you don't, it seems.

Spoiler

I would personally prefer western titles from Microsoft.

 

[bitbydeath]

Agreed. They tried in the past, and it turned out it was just throwing money away.

That’s a whole other issue with Microsoft, you can’t just ‘try’ and then pull everything away, dedication is key.

 

[HomespunFur]

Do we have an operating theory that explains why small Japanese publishers would choose to ignore the alleged money on the table?

I mean this is just a guess from me but if you are a small team it would probably be the same reason some indies dont put a game out on xbox.
Not to say it won't be profitable but making your next move after you have finished a game can be a huge decision, and they could decide starting work on the next game will be the better option.

I mean I have no idea, just a guess.

 

[curiouscharles]

Meh, I don't really care.

If I wanted to play more Japanese games, I'd buy a different console.

Not that it wouldn't be nice to have more options from Japanese developers on the console [especially with other people's tastes in mind], but I've never been really into them myself.

[I mean, I do have a Switch, so I get plentyt of Nintendo-Japanese content at least?]

 

[SgtCobra]

Japanese Gamers don't support non-Japanese consoles.

To be honest the PS4 is definitely a western console if anything, it gets it's Japanese games purely because of the relationships Sony has with certain publishers and the willingness of its userbase on buying Japanese games compared to the Xbox userbase.

The PS5 will fall into irrelevance in Japan but will still get its (niche) Japanese games here and there.

 

[The Pet of the Month]

The PS5 will fall into irrelevance in Japan but will still get its (niche) Japanese games here and there.

I'm curious, mind sharing why you think this will happen?

 

[bitbydeath]

Japanese Gamers don't support non-Japanese consoles.

That’s not true, Microsoft has a games problem, every other country sees it as well so you can’t use that excuse there.

It’s more likely US are the only ones supporting it due to it being a US product.

 

[Luminaire]

By getting me contact information and a Japanese translator ...
You're telling me game companies won't port games from PC to Xbox because it costs $$$. I'm saying they don't even have to give me anything up front, and I'll do it for 50% of revenue generated.

If Nier Automata came to Xbox digitally only, how many copies would you wager it would sell? Even at a reduced price of $30 in the West.

Microsoft takes 30% off the top and I get 50% of the remainder? Those sound like good numbers to me.

Initial costs of investment on my part: time, Xbox One dev kit

Given the PC source code and assests for a game and time, I'm sure I could get it done.

This is all assuming that the ENTIRE reason devs don't release on Xbox is because porting their PC version to Xbox would cost them too much.
Personally, I don't think that's the reason...




No.
I mean, maybe Nigerian Princes can also be software developers, but I'm not.
I'm just a regular old developer from New Orleans procrastinating on GAF when I should be prototyping a new feature.



Honestly, I agree with you.
It seems to me there has to be some reason... Some extenuating circumstance that prevents companies from targeting the Xbox, even digitally only.

For all I know, Microsoft has some contractual clause mandating that if another console gets a physical release then the Xbox must also.

For the super niche games, maybe it does make sense to skip Xbox.
But for the bigger Japanese games with SE and Atlus that are localized for the west... I don't know why they would skip Xbox.

Just set up a kickstarter on their behalf and tell them about it later. Seems just as naive as your Charitable Xbox Ports idea.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

By getting me contact information and a Japanese translator ...
You're telling me game companies won't port games from PC to Xbox because it costs $$$. I'm saying they don't even have to give me anything up front, and I'll do it for 50% of revenue generated.

If Nier Automata came to Xbox digitally only, how many copies would you wager it would sell? Even at a reduced price of $30 in the West.

Microsoft takes 30% off the top and I get 50% of the remainder? Those sound like good numbers to me.

Initial costs of investment on my part: time, Xbox One dev kit

Given the PC source code and assests for a game and time, I'm sure I could get it done.

This is all assuming that the ENTIRE reason devs don't release on Xbox is because porting their PC version to Xbox would cost them too much.
Personally, I don't think that's the reason...




No.
I mean, maybe Nigerian Princes can also be software developers, but I'm not.
I'm just a regular old developer from New Orleans procrastinating on GAF when I should be prototyping a new feature.



Honestly, I agree with you.
It seems to me there has to be some reason... Some extenuating circumstance that prevents companies from targeting the Xbox, even digitally only.

For all I know, Microsoft has some contractual clause mandating that if another console gets a physical release then the Xbox must also.

For the super niche games, maybe it does make sense to skip Xbox.
But for the bigger Japanese games with SE and Atlus that are localized for the west... I don't know why they would skip Xbox.

Just set up a kickstarter on their behalf and tell them about it later. Seems just as naive as your Charitable Xbox Ports idea.

Seriously lol. If you can port nier to xbox I'll pitch in $10 for your kick starter. Imagine 10,000 - 10 dollars. BOI!

 

[JamesHolden]

That’s not true, Microsoft has a games problem, every other country sees it as well so you can’t use that excuse there.

It’s more likely US are the only ones supporting it due to it being a US product.

This isn't a story about the Xbox One. The 360 had games, Japanese exclusives, price, and power, didn't sell for shit in Japan.

 

[sixteen-bit]

*pours one out for Scalebound*

 

[Dead Prince]

But Phil went to Japan and everything.

did he. or did he just go to benihana

 

[Simply Sami]

Phil Spencer during his time as head of games for Xbox didn't really show Japanese games any love. Blue Dragon and Lost odyssey releasing was down to Shane Kim.

So Spencer is hardly going to change. He just talks a lot but doesn't deliver. Don't get me wrong hardware side he has improved the Xbox and the updates to Xbox live. But software side there's really nothing there.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I play on Xbox only. Not out of some warrior mantra but because I don't see the point in more than one console. Japanese games are incredibly niche and really don't interest me at all. None of my friends are either and we all play on Xbox.

I just dont think there's a big market on Xbox for these kinda games.

 

[bitbydeath]

This isn't a story about the Xbox One. The 360 had games, Japanese exclusives, price, and power, didn't sell for shit in Japan.

You can’t just throw out a couple of games and expect instant success. Shit takes years when starting from 0.

 

[Keinning]

You can't just throw out a couple of games and expect instant success. Shit takes years when starting from 0.

you're making it sound like microsoft tried with two games and when they got no results in a month they put the arms up in the air and said "WELP WE'RE OUT"

instead of you know, trying since the launch of the original xbox till mid-end of the 360s (the longest gaming generation so far) life

 

[bitbydeath]

you're making it sound like microsoft tried with two games and when they got no results in a month they put the arms up in the air and said "WELP WE'RE OUT"

instead of you know, trying since the launch of the original xbox till mid-end of the 360s (the longest gaming generation so far) life

How would you feel if they applied the same level of effort to western games? They didn’t even open a single studio themselves in Japan.

 

[Keinning]

How would you feel if they applied the same level of effort to western games? They didn’t even open a single studio themselves in Japan.

I'm pretty sure that if they had pumped the same amount of money and effort into western markets during all this time and got results similar to japan they would have gotten out of gaming long ago

 

[AmFreak]

I'm pretty sure that if they had pumped the same amount of money and effort into western markets during all this time and got results similar to japan they would have gotten out of gaming long ago

Nice that you are pretty sure, but they lost ~5 billion with the OG XBox, so by your logic they would have been long out.

 

[Keinning]

Nice that you are pretty sure, but they lost ~5 billion with the OG XBox, so by your logic they would have been long out.

they probably lost more with the RRoD fiasco. the benefit of xbox to microsoft is not only measured in money though - the amount of live users they got is probably their best asset and japan offered (and still don't offer) none of this to them

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I've never understood why they have to release games on disc for these niche Japanese titles, just put them up on the store, test the water.

Exactly. Let them be downloaded only. Scrape together whatever little Japanese support you can however you can. You would think they would be so desperate as to try anything but they obviously don't see the need. That needs to change.

 

[Fiendcode]

Falcom’s gone PS4 exclusive so it’s a surprise to hear Japanese success is their only priority.