• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The state of NeoGAF

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JLG-

Member
I came for the gaming and stayed for the OT... Where are we supposed to go now.

Sad and angry day for the community.

edit: splatoon discord...

edit: "EDIT: Wow, this post is now edited!"
 
Aces&Eights

Aces&Eights

Member
I am willing to bet that 99% of the "look at me!" account suicides are Millennials. Good Lord, children, no one likes your Instagram dinner pictures and no one cares that you are leaving.
 
A

atbigelow

Member
Women need to be believed. Fuck this weak statement that took DAYS to cobble together.

Loved the gaming talk here, but there's no way I can put blinders on and put my head down and just act like this shit didn't happen.

Out.
 
G

ghostofsparta

Member
Very disappointing that social and political issues will not longer be allowed. It was a place where we can have discussions without neonazis shitting the topic. There's a ton of people out there laughing that the "extreme/alt" left (in their terms) no longer have this forum.

I'll still stick around to see if NBA Gaf still exists, but man this is horrible news.
 
MrToast

MrToast

Member
Marjar said:
Oh yeah, also here's a little bonus for ya'll.

DMsYwNuW4AYL0xD.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice photoshop.
 
R

Revas

Member
ramuh said:
EH, I felt there was a lot of good threads about minority struggles in the current political climate. But it did feel like having a different opinion meant that you knew that posting a alternative stance could get you banned by a mod .
Click to expand...


Did you feel as though they went "chimp" on you?
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
MrToast said:
Then how do you propose he proceeds from here on out? Give him a break, he's had to deal with a lot over the past few days, it can't be easy performing a multi-person job.
Click to expand...

Like I said in my post, he could easily have said: "I cannot comment on the allegations right now, but I continue to proclaim my innocence and will defend my reputation at all costs." You can defend yourself and be completely neutral without having to bash the other side.
 
T

theWB27

Member
Poligaf was a big part of my posts and pretty disappointed it's not coming back. Gaming side is why I came to gaf and it's toxicity is a big reason I didn't post as much over there.

Least commedieeee showed their colors before leaving.
 
H

Hello? This is Hailun!

Member
ramuh said:
EH, I felt there was a lot of good threads about minority struggles in the current political climate. But it did feel like having a different opinion meant that you knew that posting a alternative stance could get you banned by a mod .
Click to expand...

I, a person of color, was called a racist by white kids for not being hot on Kamala Harris.


The OT threads were garbage for garbage people.
 
D

Dan-o

Member
Ludovico said:
It's surreal - we're witnessing an ongoing hybrid war between gamergate and gaf, all while under what looks like weak leadership at best, and a power abusing hypocrite at worst. Just look at the talking points and how many accounts are swarming out just to gloat or say that gaf were the bad guys all along.

I think the moderation went a long way in keeping this place an excellent platform for information, discussion, and legitimate friendships. A few bad users have unfortunately been allowed to fester, given cover by the owner, but there's no way that's representative of the community as a whole - there's no other place like this.
And gg saying that any right or even center opinions are immediately shut down are failing to bring the receipts. Yeah, the dog piling can get gross, but you have to go out of your way in derailing a thread to warrant a ban.


I'm hoping that Tyler is held accountable for the handling of this, as well as the issue that started the whole thing I'd it bears out to be true.
I'm hoping this community recovers, because it's been a huge part of my life, and a positive place to learn, discuss, and relax.
I'm hoping internet toxicity is not a growing trend - phones are becoming ubiquitous with our youngest generation, and they need proper modeling as to what kind of Internet civilians we want them to be.

Anyway, I hope I see more gaf regulars, contributing positively to make this the best place to catch up on games, hobbies, and hopefully we'll all start seeing the bigger picture together.
Click to expand...

Yup. All of this. Every other site seems to be infected with varying levels of GG bullshit. I came here precisely because it wasn't. And I don't trust for a single second that any replacement site isn't going to have those folks under the floorboards.
 
V

VicDaMoan03

Member
EviLore said:
Hi.

An allegation of sexual misconduct has been made against me by an ex. It's not true, the individual making the accusation isn't credible, the story doesn't reconcile logically with the facts, and there's plenty of evidence and witnesses to corroborate that. It'll be a process.

All allegations of this nature are serious, of course. I first got word of it on Wednesday when a screenshot of a Facebook post was handed to Voat. I immediately talked with my mod team about the contents of the screenshot and clarified that it was baseless and explained some of the details concerning my former associations with her, and tried to ensure any concerns from the team were addressed fully and transparently to everyone's satisfaction. On Thursday I heard that she had deleted the accusation from Facebook, and wasn't entirely sure how to proceed from there or how this would all play out in the public space at that point. Then, Friday morning, the screenshot made its way to NeoGAF and chaos ensued.

I was in the process of writing a statement that entire day to address formally address the allegation, but the community had erupted in a flash that morning. While the moderation team was trying to restore the peace, accusations and threats concerning the screenshot started shifting to them as well by association with me, and I was asked by my team to do something to fix things and get the heat off of all of them at least. I was beyond exhausted by that point, though, stretched too thin in the time since the post had first appeared and seeing unprecedented events unfold on NeoGAF. I was slow and weak. I failed to handle it quickly enough and let the team down. Before I could finish a statement and get it out there, understandably some mods hit their emotional limit, expressed concerns about the community coming after them, and decided to leave. A few people resigned, and many more quickly followed for similar reasons, citing stress and harassment. The site started breaking under load spikes leading up to the first resignations, too, and then flatlined altogether, so issuing a statement at that time on NeoGAF itself became impossible for the time being, and my attention shifted toward the moderation team's future.

Since that whole mess, lasting from Friday morning through Saturday, before we formally went offline for maintenance and repair and restructure, we've just been trying to figure out the best course of action for NeoGAF going forward. And as stories began being published by various outlets, I issued some comments to the press, since everything coming out was proving to be sensationalized, opportunist, and unprofessional.


We've all become increasingly stressed and weary this year in ways even I'm not accustomed to by now, and discussions on heated news, political issues, and social issues on the off-topic side of the site have become areas no one has wanted to moderate in the open for fear of backlash or just general exposure to the inevitable toxicity. I've gone in there myself to take the heat, since it's very much my responsibility to do so before anyone else's, but there's been little headway, mostly just more anger and resentment and a lot of bans. I don't think this necessarily reflects on our community; more so the tone of the entire internet this year with regards to heated issues.

That's all going to inform the way forward for NeoGAF as we refocus on what the main goals are supposed to be for the site. The mod team will talk about more specifics on what that will entail below.


One last thing. The NeoGAF mod team is here for this community; all of you. You have no obligations to respect me or believe anything I say about my personal life one way or another, but if you're going to be here and participate on NeoGAF, respect the mod team by following the rules and behaving. The team is diminished at the moment and the folks who stuck around care very much about this community and its future. Be considerate of them. That's non-negotiable.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Would you consider selling the site? At this point seems best for you and the community.
 
H

HariKari

Member
theWB27 said:
Poligaf was a big part of my posts and pretty disappointed it's not coming back. Gaming side is why I came to gaf and it's toxicity is a big reason I didn't post as much over there.

Least commedieeee showed their colors before leaving.
Click to expand...

Have a feeling a lot of the toxicity is up and leaving/flaming out willingly right now. Give it time.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Marjar said:
Well, this was a fun series of events. All it took for this shithole of a site to go into utter chaos was a sexual misconduct allegation. That's just how bad this place has gotten with its political extremism and views on men and sex. I'm not saying that Evilore is innocent or anything, I don't believe that for a second considering this isn't the first time he's been a little too eager for some ass. For a while now, this place has been a hivemind of radical leftist drivel, where the slightest right leaning opinion would bring about immediate grounds for permanent banishment from the site. I don't remember the last time I saw a legitimately conservative thought posted here with the user unscathed.

I hope the reaction from the internet has opened the eyes of some users here. Everyone fucking hates you. NeoGAF outside of NeoGAF is a laughing stock. 4chan hates you. Reddit hates you. Twitch hates you. Even Tumblr hates you. Tumblr! The land of over 9000 pronouns. This is quite literally the North Korea of discussion boards. The only tears shed for NeoGAF have been tears of laughter over how fucked this place is. You only have yourselves to blame, especially you Evilore, since you're the one who allowed the mods to become so ban happy and so corrupt. You made your bed. It's a bed made of spikes and surrounded by an angry mob of crazed liberals. Now fucking lie in it.

I've been done with this site for a while now after realizing that there's no turning back for it, so I really don't care what happens to this account. To all of you users here who still have some semblance of decency, leave now and look for a new forum. GAF sucks, Evilore sucks, I hope this plane crashes with no survivors.

Peace out, fags.
Click to expand...
Cool story, bro.

You sure made your point by calling us fags, though.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
ModBot said:
Moderation will also see changes. Over the years, moderators changed from simply people who made sure discussion stay civil into personalities. It's because of that, many were targeted for harassment and other things. This shouldn't be happening to them. We've taken action to protect these people by making moderation anonymous. There will be no more red-names that single them out nor will there be a list of who is one.
Click to expand...
One reason for this is that a number of mods enjoyed being personalities. Some of them would abuse their power, bullying users into silence and handing out petty bans. I hope they left.

I also hope you reconsider anonymous moderation once the boards cool down. The anonymous snarky ban messages were bad enough. Mods should be held accountable for their actions. The community will respond kindly to those who moderate rationally, without bias, and generally aren't looking to build a reputation for themselves as mods.
 
Stahsky

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
ramuh said:
That is the rub. We are all using a jumping to conclusions mat without learning everything. Has there been any lawsuits? Criminal charges? If it gets to the point where a person is thinking that Evilore is a piece of shit, that is there personal opinion and they can commit seppuku if they want. Personally, I'm waiting on how things will play out, and finally getting in some GAMING forum side of things.
Click to expand...


Agreed, but I also want to note that this whole fiasco, the Amirox thing, and the general echo chamber, hivemind extremist nonsense was something management fostered to life.

Even if he ends up being innocent, Evilore made some seriously horrible decisions on how to run and operate this place.
 
C

Calion

Member
MrToast said:
How do you know if the story is even true?
Click to expand...

Tyler has posted revenge porn. He’s grabbed someone’s ass in a club (without consent) as a “power move”. And his immediate response to an sexual assault allegation was to ban members and all discussion of it, then immediately shut down a site for 2 days.
 
SebastianM

SebastianM

Member
ModBot said:
We'll be starting with a clean slate when they come back. However, the focus will be on the many other hobbies we may have like TV, movies, anime, writing, music, etc. Political and social discourse will not be allowed in the new Off-Topic. Those types of discussions greatly added to the harsh and unwelcoming atmosphere of Off-Topic, which pushed many users away.
Click to expand...

Thank fuck.
 
M

Mr. Phellps

Member
Unfortunately, GAF has a history of mishandling these controversies, and each time an Amirox or an Opiate outburst happens, the community suffers. This is just another gaping wound that just keeps bleeding.

I'm honestly unsure about where I stand here. I love GAF for the community, not for the person running it. At the same time, I can't dissociate it from it's owner. It benefits him after all.

For the time being, I will stand by the alleged victim's side. Trust the victim, it takes a lot of guts to come out and tell their harassment stories, etc. We've all been through this many times with other culprits. This time, it just so happens that the accused party is NeoGAFs' headmaster. I can't treat this differently.

For better or for worse, I will watch as this story develops. And I hope, after all, that it wasn't true. Not because it suddenly makes me comfortable coming back to GAF, but because it means there was one less case o harassment in the world, and because it means that someone that was once believed to be supportive of women's rights was not involved in a sexual harassment case.

As it stands, I Believe in her.
 
M

mavo

Banned
Marjar said:
Oh yeah, also here's a little bonus for ya'll.

DMsYwNuW4AYL0xD.jpg
Click to expand...

That is definitely the opinion that a lot people had outside of the neogaf, when it was down the internet was filled with more joy than anything.

But the google autofilled is done via your searches, just saying.
 
C

CitizenCope

Member
I hope politics is wiped from GAF.
It's just seems impossible to mod here. I'm left leaning but to see some of the bans for a different point of view from the right was quite sad. I'd rather eviscerate the echo chamber and keep all politics out.
 
I

IXI FalcoN

Member
vonStirlitz said:
Man, the first few pages of this thread are like a list of the lost.

Frankly, and speaking as a lawyer here, it is not appropriate to discuss allegations while they remain hearsay and open to dispute. However, the allegations arose in a politically heated environment, and were handled badly, and have created a significant amount of rightful distaste among the community. This has travelled to the less generous parts of the web, where it is open season on the community.

Secondly, we are a community, and notwithstanding allegations (rightly or wrongly) against the owner, we have to make a distinction between the owner and the community. For example, I may dislike (to put it mildly) Trump, but I still love America and Americans.

This is GAF, it is a community, and the majority of its members and former mods were decent people having fantastic discourse. It was my go to site for news, gaming and off-topic, and provided me with many smiles, if not loud laughter, thoughts, some challenging but all nourishing, over the years.

It would be a shame to lose this, because there aren't many refuges of enlightened, collegiate, somewhat boisterous, but generally well meant debate and community left on the web. GAF was one of those, and if it passes, in the form we knew, loved, and hated, then something dies.

On a last point of warning, OT needs to be brought back, and the comments about moderating out social and political topics needs to be dropped. A good site, with good moderators, will keep things in line. That is why we came here. The minute a site says that we are incapable of addressing certain topics, and being big boys and girls about it, then that site loses its identity and purpose.

Peace. Chill everyone.
Click to expand...

Very well said. This is about where I'm at.

I've been here for years, mostly lurked. It's been my central hub for gaming news and discussion. I've been mentally lost the last few days without it.

OT taking a break is a good thing. Bring it back when the dust settles, but don't censor political and social discussion. That's inherently not the problem. People should be able to discuss these things like adults and be able to hear a dissenting opinion without foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog. I'm a political science major, I love discussing politics and current events. Couldn't do it here. If you didn't agree with the hive mind approved rhetoric you were chased out of the thread or even banned. I learned long ago to just avoid those threads.

At the end of the day what Evilore and any other person on this site does in their personal life is none of my damned business. Evilore isn't GAF to me, the community making awesome launch OTs, hilarious GIFs during E3, the good Off topic threads, RTTP/LTTP threads, huge discussions blowing up when big news dropped...that's GAF for me.
 
M

Mushroomer25

Member
MrToast said:
Then how do you propose he proceeds from here on out? Give him a break, he's had to deal with a lot over the past few days, it can't be easy performing a multi-person job.
Click to expand...

The adult thing to do would have been to not take on that kind of role in the first place. To have a contingency plan for this kind of thing.To realize that you are the problem, and that if you are truly innocent in this situation - separating yourself is the only way to regain the trust of the userbase.
 
paparazzo

paparazzo

Member
Can't say your damage control here is impressive. While I won't miss the cesspool OT had become, nuking it altogether is a bad move. If you were always "at the helm" it shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. Not sure what the the toxic environment has to do with your actions outside of here, though. I certainly hope the allegations aren't true, and if evidence comes out, this place really is done.

The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Click to expand...

Said it better than I could.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Click to expand...
A solid post.

I think the moderation needs a certain degree of anonymity to avoid doxxing. Without safeguards in place to protect them, their turnover rate will explode and this place will become lawless.

I think there needs to be disclosure as to why an individual was banned, perhaps over the offending post? Just spitballing here.

This also makes me wonder if we're nearing a future where Malka sells the site to another individual or company before his publicity drags the ad revenue further down. Shuttering the OT and these terrible headlines are probably spiking their revenue into the ground. I wonder how much we can realistically recover from that.
 
T

therealist

Member
The social and political threads consumed the forum and destroyed OT. What GAF should do is create a separate forum for people who did want to talk about that stuff. Leave the OT for normal conversation.
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Hello? This is Hailun! said:
I, a person of color, was called a racist by white kids for not being hot on Kamala Harris.


The OT threads were garbage for garbage people.
Click to expand...
Taking you at your word on this, would the solution not then be to improve them instead of just entirely getting rid of them? How is just nuking it in any way a logical response? That seems to be a problem of moderation, not the content itself.
 
H

Hello? This is Hailun!

Member
Mr. Phellps said:
Unfortunately, GAF has a history of mishandling these controversies, and each time an Amirox or an Opiate outburst happens, the community suffers. This is just another gaping wound that just keeps bleeding.
Click to expand...

This forum didn't give nearly as much of a fuck over kiddy diddling. Mods stuck by Amirox as much as possible and were happy to be associated with him.

Shows you where their priorities are.
 
P

pantsmith

Member
Gaf has been one of my favorite places on the internet for a long time, and a huge part of that is absolutely the community you have fostered - for better or for worse.

Regardless of the validity of the accusations (Im sorry but I have to acknowledge them) the responsible thing would be to step down from whatever involvement you have left and leave Gaf to the community; let Gaf decide whats best for Gaf.

Even if a lot of off topic is a toxic circlejerk, its our toxic circlejerk and silencing it is the wrong move.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
says the guy who takes pride in shaking hands with Obama and supporting the Paris Agreement and social equality.

But what happens in the shower, stays in the shower... I guess.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
I, just, am at a loss of words. Been here for a decade. I refuse to judge people's personal lives of people I will never meet. One person shouldn't be the death of an community this large. Even if it is the owner.

I don't want to be banned, I just want to talk about games. It'll take awhile for things to get back to normal. Lets hope it gets that way very soon.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
Glad Neogaf is back.
My favourite part of this place are the game OTs. When it comes to discussing video games I don't think there is any community as good as Neogaf.
Hopefully things work out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mod to the future
2
402
killatopak replied
Baldur's Gate 3 Devs Working on Official Mod Support Plan, Including for Consoles
News
9
1K
Doom85 replied
The GTA V source code was sold for $2000 to a modding community
Drama Rumor 2
59
5K
polybius80 replied
Overwatch devs claim Bobby Kotick sabotaged OW2’s Steam launch
News Drama Game Dev 2 3 4
179
11K
ViciousAgenda replied
Nexus Mods to increase prices by 40%+ in June
News 2
85
4K
Solarstrike replied
Top Bottom