Officerrob
Banned
How many times is this lie going to be repeated?
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- Thread starter EviLore
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How many times is this lie going to be repeated?
Monocle
Member
I suspect this is a human nature sort of thing, but I guess we'll see. Tribalism has been a driving force in our history since the beginning.
psychowave
Member
This x1000000. Whether EviLore is guilty or not, all he cared about was silencing discussion about the topic as much as possible. People whine about old GAF "censoring" their bigoted comments but they don't seem to mind this at all. Bunch of hypocrites.
PhantomThief
Banned
I dont read reddit, I saw a pic of the discord chat tho.
If Im wrong then sorry.
I dont understand the hate really, i come here for videogames, not anyones personal life, we are a community and i enjoy games way better knowing i can share my experiences somewhere, if anyone was upset, why didnt people done something before? Why now only? It smells attencion only, if you dont like the forum, you re not giving anyyhing positive, you wont be missed, Bye.
Ivellios
Member
There were threads in off topic that really helped people like the Mental Health thread, among others.
WraithWalker1893
Banned
Whatever happens, the sites name is tarnished beyond all belief. There's no saving it no matter how hard you try. So just think about that the next time your on. Neogaf's time is done. It's finished. It's been finished for a while now. You just ignited the inevitable flame.
cleveridea
Member
The worst possible thing that could have happened is that the site went back online and there were hardly any posts
Gaf always has interesting content, though now its in unexpected ways
Gaf always has interesting content, though now its in unexpected ways
PhantomThief
Banned
The mods all left because it was the straw that broke the camels back.
So all the mods left for attention?
Huh that doesnt make sense does it?
Maybe read up more before you post.
Jathaine
Member
Nah, whether they are saying it or not... I think most people took issue with that move. It was a shitty move. I'm pretty sure that at this point even he thinks so.
Beseda was one of the best GAF mods around and I've seen a fair few of them.
But then you're not joining in on the juicy delicious drama that is taking place.
oo7
Member
That't not really harassment though. It resulted in agreed coitus. Evilore made a play, and it eventually paid off. Some people buy roses, others get butt nekkid and jump in a shower. Same result in this case.
Seems like this woman was in mood to stir shit. It worked.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
seriously, where has "in dubio pro reo" gone? And I assume that we'll have a lot of false accusations in the verge of #meetoo by pissed of ex-GFs. The Spain incident - god, we've all done stupid things in the past, who's without sin should throw the first stone.
Having this elefant out of the room ...
Gaf will never be the same from this weekend on. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe not - time will tell. I'm a long time reader of this board, only hopped aboard in 2012 to use the search function and I never had the feeling that gaf is somewhat biased - probably because I came here to talk about games, not about politics. Begging for a ban is a childish way of hitting someone who's already on the floor and I don't think that the people who left Gaf will be missed.
Having this elefant out of the room ...
Gaf will never be the same from this weekend on. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe not - time will tell. I'm a long time reader of this board, only hopped aboard in 2012 to use the search function and I never had the feeling that gaf is somewhat biased - probably because I came here to talk about games, not about politics. Begging for a ban is a childish way of hitting someone who's already on the floor and I don't think that the people who left Gaf will be missed.
I spent the last few days genuinely stressed out about the fate of NeoGaf and sad to see one of my favourite places potentially disappear.
Now that it's back, I can't say I'm relieved. This sticky is grossly disappointing as it fails to lay out that this isn't the first time that accusations like this have been made. This isn't a one off accusation and not even acknowledging that, regardless of veracity, is a huge omission.
Maybe expecting a Mea Culpa was too much but this feels wrong. Seeing Off-Topic go is a balm not a cure. Honestly, I was always proud of Gaf being a place that rallied against GamerGate and most radical right leaning groups. It was refreshingly progressive but that's going to disappear too now. I can already see it in the posts with people claiming 'virtue signalling' and 'attention seeking' in the requests for bans. When all you have to make your voice heard is a request for expulsion, I think that's a fair tactic to take.
Not sure I feel comfortable being a part of this community anymore for all of the above. That makes me super sad as I've been a member for nearly a decade now. Maybe I don't post as often as I used to but I still visited every day. Some of the best threads, insider info and general gaming posts came from here. What a wonderful community to have been a part of and one that always outweighed the toxic vocal few.
Now that it's back, I can't say I'm relieved. This sticky is grossly disappointing as it fails to lay out that this isn't the first time that accusations like this have been made. This isn't a one off accusation and not even acknowledging that, regardless of veracity, is a huge omission.
Maybe expecting a Mea Culpa was too much but this feels wrong. Seeing Off-Topic go is a balm not a cure. Honestly, I was always proud of Gaf being a place that rallied against GamerGate and most radical right leaning groups. It was refreshingly progressive but that's going to disappear too now. I can already see it in the posts with people claiming 'virtue signalling' and 'attention seeking' in the requests for bans. When all you have to make your voice heard is a request for expulsion, I think that's a fair tactic to take.
Not sure I feel comfortable being a part of this community anymore for all of the above. That makes me super sad as I've been a member for nearly a decade now. Maybe I don't post as often as I used to but I still visited every day. Some of the best threads, insider info and general gaming posts came from here. What a wonderful community to have been a part of and one that always outweighed the toxic vocal few.
this is a resonable post
I wasnt talking about the mods, but the posts and topics asking for a ban..
CrazedProfessional
Member
I think OT should come back and Politics should be kept to megathreads. Something Awful does this well where the politics of each country is just kept to their own |OT| and not let into any other threads.
Like in 2016 to 2017 every second thread was Trump said this or Hillary said this or look what this person tweeted. It's an immense disadvantage to forums as a whole where you just let threads leak and populate an entire section of the Forum. Even in threads which had no relation to politics what so ever, posts could just storm in and change the topic to something totally unrelated to the OP but because OT and the Mods were so political the whole thing was just let slide and any topic made by any person could be about Endless Political madness.
OT should come back eventually but it should almost exclusively be stickied |OT|'s or Political and Social Justice should have its own subforum which is made up of |OT|'s and leave OT as just drunk threads, worthwhile articles, hobbies, sports ect.
The reason why Something Awful has lasted so long is that basically each group of topics worth discussing has its own subforum so it can just be moved there rather than it leaking on everything and making a good half of the forum a flaming mess of attacking and defending positions.
These issues are completely separate to these allegations to Evilore, they can be worked out somewhere else or with a change of ownership but whoever or whatever runs NeoGaf should be aware of the issues OT had.
Like in 2016 to 2017 every second thread was Trump said this or Hillary said this or look what this person tweeted. It's an immense disadvantage to forums as a whole where you just let threads leak and populate an entire section of the Forum. Even in threads which had no relation to politics what so ever, posts could just storm in and change the topic to something totally unrelated to the OP but because OT and the Mods were so political the whole thing was just let slide and any topic made by any person could be about Endless Political madness.
OT should come back eventually but it should almost exclusively be stickied |OT|'s or Political and Social Justice should have its own subforum which is made up of |OT|'s and leave OT as just drunk threads, worthwhile articles, hobbies, sports ect.
The reason why Something Awful has lasted so long is that basically each group of topics worth discussing has its own subforum so it can just be moved there rather than it leaking on everything and making a good half of the forum a flaming mess of attacking and defending positions.
These issues are completely separate to these allegations to Evilore, they can be worked out somewhere else or with a change of ownership but whoever or whatever runs NeoGaf should be aware of the issues OT had.
Handel
Member
So long to many of those hateful people on their high horse, able to get away with the disgusting things they said as it fit with the same bias's the mods had. Have fun tearing each other apart in your new forum.
Are you entirely ignorant to what is going on around you? Do you not see how on a mere accusation one of the biggest gaming sites flips their shit and anarchy ensues? Do you not think this accusation will significantly affect Evilore, socially and financially?
You can't just use Trump as a means of dismissing things. He is an anomaly, part of the 1%. When you have a nobel prize winner like Tim Hunt get basically fired from his job and lambasted all over the Internet before he even gets on the plane back home from a conference, without anyone having ever asking him what happened or getting any supporting evidence than one delusional woman's account of the events, you cannot deny the power of internet lynch mobs.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Without Off-Topic this isn't a particularly usable forum for me (and yes, I'm aware of how this forum started).
eBay Huckster
Member
the screenshot you saw was probably "fake besada", who was a /pol/ user impersonating him and was inexplicably thrown into an advisory role on discord without any verification whatsoever because saturday was a ridiculously chaotic shitshow. they seem to have gotten things basically under control at this point (and more importantly haven't actually decided on a mod team)
also ironically GBS did exactly this a couple years ago around halloween
Yeah and also the Besada PMs and talks how he prepared banns for some people. :|
BibiMaghoo
Member
Yes it is? No others have made such allegations, and this individual has made one at one time. Is it the very definition of a one off accusation lol. It is compounded by Evilores own posts about grabbing someones ass, but we don't need to escalate it with fabrications. That one event is shitty enough.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ah yes of course, after years of being able to talk about she chose only now to do so because it was the most opportunistic moment, in which she could gain the most amount of fame, glory and money. Everything makes sense now despite EvilLore having previous history of sexual misconduct and straight up rug sweeping a pedo.
No, it was her. And we should all just talk about games guys am I right?
This is exactly how I feel, whether Evilore did it it not..the response was fucking cowardly and screamed of guilt and panic mode. After really thinking about it hard..where theres smoke theres fire and too many slimy things have been associated with Tyler too just keep saying whatever I love videogame discussion for me to stay here anymore. The amir0x pedo shit only makes it worse that guy was a lying shit stain of a mod before he got busted.
LeroyPantwether
Member
What was the tldr of those . They were super tiny and blurry on my phone and I couldn't read .... or I am going blind .
I only remember besada from DIY subforum
Ive been a member for a long time, and I cannot believe the amount of self entitlement in this thread. If you are so upset about an accusation that 99% of you know nothing about, then you deserve to leave. This thread is the definition of everything wrong with the internet. People are way too quick to over react and start raising pitchforks.
Everyone has made mistakes in their life. Everyone. Its your opinion how serious these allegations are of course, but judging by the story alone. This appears to be an incident report involving lots of alcohol. I would imagine almost all of you who do drink or do Drugs, have done something regrettable or that youre not proud of under the influence. That doesnt justify it, but thats hardly worth burning their house down.
Everyone has made mistakes in their life. Everyone. Its your opinion how serious these allegations are of course, but judging by the story alone. This appears to be an incident report involving lots of alcohol. I would imagine almost all of you who do drink or do Drugs, have done something regrettable or that youre not proud of under the influence. That doesnt justify it, but thats hardly worth burning their house down.
So wait, did you not jump into the shower with a drunk, sick woman who had already vomited and had a boyfriend? Or do you simply disagree with her take on that?
Did you not skirt this whole issue by blaming the victim and bringing up her supposed history of mental illness (rather than just, being civil about it)?
Did you not grab ass in Spain to assert some sort of dominance, brag about it, then backtrack it when you saw that it wasn't okay?
Did you not botch the amir0x statement, lying about your association with him?
You own this site. Now own your shit. Or get fucked. Whatever, we see you now.
Did you not skirt this whole issue by blaming the victim and bringing up her supposed history of mental illness (rather than just, being civil about it)?
Did you not grab ass in Spain to assert some sort of dominance, brag about it, then backtrack it when you saw that it wasn't okay?
Did you not botch the amir0x statement, lying about your association with him?
You own this site. Now own your shit. Or get fucked. Whatever, we see you now.
So you acknowledge the possibility that the allegations are true. So:
If you make a mistake, own it. It's so simple.
Here we have a cover-up and a victim-blaming.
Ive never forced myself on a female I can tell you that.
Even Amirox had his moments. Although <shudder> he was always a nutcase.
Bish leaving was a shock to me.
CrazedProfessional
Member
Basically the solution regardless of this forums future is to utilise subforums.
Gaming and Offtopic Community were too vague to be effective. You've got to gather up the popular topics and give them their own subforum or else one topic will just dominate and pollute every thread around it.
The common tool in Something Awful in particular is that if someone tries to bring politics or whatever into a thread not about politics or social justice a mod can just tell them to take it to X subforum and they will because the spaces for discussion are clearly marked.
If you just have Offtopic Community, No; it's not clear where a poster could go and no they aren't going to page 2, 3 ,4 ,5 ,6 of OT Community to find the OT they could post in on the topic, it's far easier to pollute regular OT instead and they were allowed to.
Oh it's assault now?
Gormenghast
Member
The problem with GAF is mainly that as an outsider it's REALLY complex to understand all the baggage of the "meta".
The moderation was/is a problem insofar a user has no idea about what's allowed and what's not.
For example I've observed that verbal abuse is fine... As long it's targeted at people that the moderation doesn't like, but it's then of course not tolerated in all the other cases.
And that's FINE too. I understand this is a community where people can vent off. It has a certain orientation that has a certain deliberate purpose. It wants to protect a certain category of people that are, so to speak, under the weather in real life. And because of what they get in real life, these people have the right to obtain small exceptions to the rules. To have a place where they can vent off and express legitimate frustration.
But again, this can be hardly understood by someone who comes here and suddenly observes that rules aren't applied uniformly.
It takes quite a bit of time to understand what is allowed and what is not, and quite frequently moderators would misunderstand what is being written just because at a superficial glance it looked like coming from a "rival" general opinion that they have a moral right to wall off.
This sort of general behavior, that I just said is legitimate and acceptable (after you understand how it works and can adapt to it) also has consequences that are not good, though.
It favors an extremism of opinions. When there are situations that are complex and nuanced the role of GAF as a community was always about drawing a very distinct line of "us versus them". To rally the troops and "close ranks". If there's some controversy about Boogie or Pwediepie or whoever, the role of GAF was to build distinct categories to frame these personalities. The role of GAF was to remove nuance and ambiguity in order to push away all legitimate doubt. Make clear cut distinctions. Orientate the part of the community that still had doubts. So for GAF Pewdiepie is always disingeuous, 100% nazi, 100% the enemy and the living embodiment of what the community should fight.
That's why you very often read in the comments something evoking "the hill to die on". As if one person cannot have a variety of opinions, but had to always get in some kind of war and defend just one single thing as the ultimate act that is asked of him/her. There's always this rhetoric of "going to war", that is never conductive of a civil and moderate discussion.
I don't want to discuss the specific case again, but just to underline that GAF had the purpose of drawing those sharp distinctions and labeling people so that they would be turned into targets. To remove all traces of doubt. So that the community could reinforce its identity and fight some projected enemy outside. This is never a good thing, it only builds higher walls and creates progressively more intolerance among people.
If in real life a person is a complex entity that comprises a multitude of ideas and behaviors, some good some bad. For GAF you only become a label. It's either enemy or friend. Instead of trying to encourage people to change for the good, GAF liked better to take them to the ground and beat them. To cut ties and carve out pieces of itself.
And the end result is that communities instead of unifying and sharing what they have, increasingly become antagonistic and turn on themselves, and... splinter...
The community turns on itself and breeds misunderstanding and hate.
Whenever a diplomat shows up, you shoot the diplomat in the head. Because you don't want to build bridges, you want to burn them. And yet, this will never lead to a better world. It doesn't work, and it's very sad to see it happening again and again.
When you are at war, complexity, nuance and doubt can only undermine your survival. So I can understand that people right now legitimately *feel* at war in today's world. But the more we plunge into this scenario, the more things are getting worse. (cue Fallout meme)
CoolZombie360
Member
Allegedly making unwanted sexual advances while your naked and the other is drunk seems like assault
I think the whole situation has been handled poorly. Surely that statement could have been released much sooner. Furthermore, I think it's a mistake to ban political talk. While I understand it can be difficult to moderate, I think the forum will become less valuable if contemporary issues can't be discussed. The real issue seems to be that there is little room for people who don't have the "right" opinions. Rather than banning all talks on politics perhaps you could allow even unpopular opinions as long as people argue in a reasonable manor.
Captain Tuttle
Member
This is an excellent post, just about sums up my feelings.
Whelp if this is what the forum will be filled with, apologists to sexual conduct towards anyone without consent because "they had consensual sex later down then track lol all g he hit it" and "I just want my games fuck discussion and opinions" I'm out.
Fuck you EvilLore, fuck you NewGAF and love you AusGAF (now AusSlaent).
Fuck you EvilLore, fuck you NewGAF and love you AusGAF (now AusSlaent).
Neogaf certainly went crazy and pulled the pitchforks out.
Harassment of any kind is not right, and I obviously have no knowledge as to what really happened, however one thing that I'm struggling to comprehend is that the accuser who claims she was sexually harassed actually got into a relationship AFTER the events with Evilore. Conveniently she left that bit out of her facebook statement. It would have obviously lost impact if she added that bit to the end.....
Now call me crazy but if she really had a bad experience why would she have gotten into a relationship with him. I don't know, but for me she loses a bit of credibility.
Harassment of any kind is not right, and I obviously have no knowledge as to what really happened, however one thing that I'm struggling to comprehend is that the accuser who claims she was sexually harassed actually got into a relationship AFTER the events with Evilore. Conveniently she left that bit out of her facebook statement. It would have obviously lost impact if she added that bit to the end.....
Now call me crazy but if she really had a bad experience why would she have gotten into a relationship with him. I don't know, but for me she loses a bit of credibility.
It was neither violent nor physical. It's neither assault nor rape as others have called it.
Words on the internet are pictchforks now? Why can't people voice their opinion in the place where it might be heard?
You know if you don't want to read peoples opinions on it you dont have to click on the threads where people are venting their opinions. There are still plenty of gaming threads to read.
Everyone has made mistakes and to varying degrees they are held accountable for them.
People have questions Evilore on some of the behaviour before regarding stuff he was posted about doing. With this accusations and his direct response somepeople have decided that enough is enough and have left or have voiced their disapproval, etc..
I certainly thing its best people can discuss it. This is a discussion forum.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
I went WTF after I read that part too in the Kotaku article.
Groundking
Neo Member
Most forums on the web lean left rather than right, often heavily so too.
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