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The state of NeoGAF

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There were threads in off topic that really helped people like the Mental Health thread, among others.
And a lot of talk about shows and media that tend to not get a lot of love in other corners of the internet, which is (usually) appreciated.

On topic (heh) for this thread: sucks off-topic has to go away for a bit. I actually used it to catch up on the news of the day. I do, however, understand why. When it was good, Off Topic was a treasure trove of good advice and hidden gems of opinions, news stories, and suggestions of music/tv/movies, etc. At its worst, it was the text and image equivalent of a 2nd grade argument.

What I'm saying is we should attempt to do better and limit it to one 'Roman Reigns' thread at a time.
 

rhino4evr

Member
So you acknowledge the possibility that the allegations are true. So:

If you make a mistake, own it. It's so simple.

Here we have a cover-up and a victim-blaming.

Did he deny that it happened? No. Have you ever heard of two sides too a story? Maybe he thought it was consensual? He was drunk, do you think signals maybe had been mixed?

Listen as I said you are free to be “appalled” by actions of others, but you were not in that room, and you really don’t know exactly what happened.

Furthermore it sounds like nothing did happen. She said NO and he left the shower. If she said no, and he didn’t? Well that’s a different story. No one was raped in this scenario, based on the story.

The woman even remained friends and dated him afterwards. So to say that there was no somewhat mutual connection and physical attraction between them is obviously false .

People cheat of their wives / boyfriends on a daily basis. It’s why we have a high divorce rate, what he did sucks but it isn’t a crime.

Regarding his reaction, I’m sure this is not anything he ever in his right mind thought he would ever have to revisit or try to explain. Alcohol tends to make your memory a little fuzzy if you’re new to the experience .
 

KAP151

Member
Ive been a member and a lurker for a long time, well over a decade.

Some of the account suicides here are just plain sad and others I really feel sorry for. Some pretty depressed people out there.

I guess this site meant a hell of a lot to some people.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Åesop;252783145 said:
The step to anonymous mods/admins seems a bit strange. I've noticed some "personality" mods were banning people for the dumbest reasons sometimes. Even I was banned for 2 weeks just because I posted a joke about "sony just shot themselves in the foot" in some post (?), while there were shitposts all over the thread that were ignored. At least you knew who banned you and they could potentially be held responsible if they abuse their mod rights. Making it anonymous is just begging for personal abuse

I never knew who banned me actually, and I think I was banned thrice.
 

Lupercal

Banned
That't not really harassment though. It resulted in agreed coitus. Evilore made a play, and it eventually paid off. Some people buy roses, others get butt nekkid and jump in a shower. Same result in this case.

Seems like this woman was in mood to stir shit. It worked.

This sounds like you got you're sexual ed from a 40 year old virgin.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Even Amirox had his moments. Although <shudder> he was always a nutcase.

Bish leaving was a shock to me.

The only "moments" of Amirox's that I have even slightly fond memories of were those that came at his expense.

Like when the whole fucking forum roasted him over the time that he bragged about hitting his disabled mother over the most asinine of reasons.

What a fucking loon.
 

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]
 
Basically the solution regardless of this forums future is to utilise subforums.

Gaming and Offtopic Community were too vague to be effective. You've got to gather up the popular topics and give them their own subforum or else one topic will just dominate and pollute every thread around it.

The common tool in Something Awful in particular is that if someone tries to bring politics or whatever into a thread not about politics or social justice a mod can just tell them to take it to X subforum and they will because the spaces for discussion are clearly marked.

If you just have Offtopic Community, No; it's not clear where a poster could go and no they aren't going to page 2, 3 ,4 ,5 ,6 of OT Community to find the OT they could post in on the topic, it's far easier to pollute regular OT instead and they were allowed to.

all good points, but i was mostly referring to the GBS moderation needing to shift twice because they fucked up and turned it into Second FYAD the first time

The only "moments" of Amirox's I have even slightly fond memories of were those that came at his expense.

Like when the whole fucking forum roasted him over the time that he bragged about hitting his disabled mother over the most asinine of reasons.

What a fucking loon.

honestly i'm not sure how anyone in OT didn't hate his guts by the time the CP shit came out

even poligaf hated him and we were caping for clinton like our first two names were "william jefferson"
 
Did he deny that it happened? No. Have you ever heard of two sides too a story? Maybe he thought it was consensual? He was drunk, do you think signals maybe had been mixed?

Listen as I said you are free to be “appalled” by actions of others, but you were not in that room, and you really don’t know exactly what happened.

Furthermore it sounds like nothing did happen. She said NO and he left the shower. If she said no, and he didn’t? Well that’s a different story. No one was raped in this scenario, based on the story.

The woman even remained friends and dated him afterwards. So to say that there was no somewhat mutual connection and physical attraction between them is obviously false .

People cheat of their wives / boyfriends on a daily basis. It’s why we have a high divorce rate, what he did sucks but it isn’t a crime.

Regarding his reaction, I’m sure this is not anything he ever in his right mind thought he would ever have to revisit or try to explain. Alcohol tends to make your memory a little fuzzy if you’re new to the experience .

So why did he say that she's mentally unstable, instead of saying hey I tried to get it on but I mixed up the signals that were given?

No, he doesnt own up to what he did. He gives a bullshit "statement" about her being mentally unstable.

Just own up to it and say hey I fucked up,Ill try to do better next time.
 

Zoggy

Member
Did he deny that it happened? No. Have you ever heard of two sides too a story? Maybe he thought it was consensual? He was drunk, do you think signals maybe had been mixed?

Listen as I said you are free to be “appalled” by actions of others, but you were not in that room, and you really don’t know exactly what happened.

Furthermore it sounds like nothing did happen. She said NO and he left the shower. If she said no, and he didn’t? Well that’s a different story. No one was raped in this scenario, based on the story.

The woman even remained friends and dated him afterwards. So to say that there was no somewhat mutual connection and physical attraction between them is obviously false .

People cheat of their wives / boyfriends on a daily basis. It’s why we have a high divorce rate, what he did sucks but it isn’t a crime.

Regarding his reaction, I’m sure this is not anything he ever in his right mind thought he would ever have to revisit or try to explain. Alcohol tends to make your memory a little fuzzy if you’re new to the experience .
The fact that she made a fb post about it and how it bothered her
 

Nipo

Member
It was neither violent nor physical. It's neither assault nor rape as others have called it.

Assault doesn't require physical touch. Your'e thinking of battery.

"assault is defined as the threat of bodily harm that reasonably causes fear of harm in the victim"
 

clo1_2000

Banned
The behavior set that you are mindlessly defending ( he only touched a grabbed a girl's ass, while drunk, we've all done it) is the exact mindset that the #metoo movement is trying to bring to light. This is not a game of absolutes, it isn't a binary decision of rape/not rape. Harassment is harassment and no one can tell you how it affects the person it is done to, except for that person themselves. The type of behavior I'm seeing on this forum is what enables this mindset to continue to flourish. You don't defend "light harassment". You apologize for the behavior and try to change. You adapt to the changing times, and yes, grabbing a girl while drunk is considered harassment. Talking to a woman in a sexual way when she doesn't consent is harassment. Leering at a woman is harassment. Calling a woman a bitch because she turned you down or doesn't want to engage in sexual activity is harassment. The list goes on...

I've been here 10 years, but seeing all the shit that has happened here in the last few months, this is no longer a community I want to associate with. Good luck to you all and I hope as you grow and mature you learn to see things with other's frames of reference, especially those who are different from yourself.
 
tenor.gif

And it will be FULL of shit - like the old one never was!
 

Abhor

Member
After skimming through the first half of this thread I gave up. Some of these posts being allowed... Just wow.

I was mostly a lurker, but GAF was a daily thing for me. Now? I don't think so. Especially if this thread is anything to go by.
 

Gagaman

Member
Evillore right now

Eh, I've mainly been a lurker here for ten years now with the odd post and enjoyed the gaming discussion in certain areas but I think I can live without visiting here from now on.

This place was so huge I never really got to know anybody r make friends here, I mainly used it as a news hub but I'm sure I can soon do that elsewhere or just not pay so much attention to it all. If anything it might do my productivity a favor.

This statement is a complete flop and gives me zero confidence in hanging around anytime soon. Trying to ban toxicity has only made this place even more toxic than before. Anyone with any common sense will bail from this shitshow. See ya.
 

Speevy

Banned
I think some of you are asking the wrong question.

It's like those threads when the CEO of a restaurant was a bigot.

If you still post here, are you condoning whatever might have happened?

That's the only question that matters.
 

Typical

Banned
Given they had consensual sex later down the line perhaps it gives more credence to the fact there was flirting / attraction between the pair but impaired with alcohol he made a ill conceived move at the wrong time.

Hardly a reason to crucify someone.
 

rhino4evr

Member
Ive never forced myself on a female I can tell you that.

Did I miss the part about forced? Was someone raped? He was told no, and he listened. Why he thought it was ok to get naked in the shower could be a whole ton of reasons. Alcohol clouds your judgement. It’s highly possible he truly thought she was into him. The fact is you don’t know.
 
The specific facts of the case are a matter for a police investigation and the legality of them are a matter for legal system, which is the course this lady should have done instead of first deciding to make it a social media storm.

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist but the way NeoGAF users immediately goes rabid and brings out the pitchforks with anything relating to women is at best painfully cringeworthy and at worst significant fuel to the alt-right anti-feminist fire.

If and what he did needs to be confirmed by formal investigation that will have nothing to do with any of you internet warriors, and he will be dealt with as per the law and NeoGAF can and should continue with or without his involvement.

If he didn't do it, the false accusation needs to be dealt with accordingly and the self-styled "liberals" on GAF who are as much about "guilty until proven innocent" as any alt-right nut job is with regards to racial issues etc. need to learn a serious lesson.

Either way, whether the claim is true or not, none of us are in a position to know. If you feel the need to wave a placard and scream something it should be that due process is carried out, nothing more. Until then just shut the fuck up and talk about video games.
 

mario_O

Member
Allegedly making unwanted sexual advances while your naked and the other is drunk seems like assault

Allegedly, right. But hey, lets forget about innocent until proven guilty. Anyway, her story is very unusual. Two friends (also an ex) alone on a road trip, getting drunk, sharing a hotel room. In a situation like that I would probably get "confused" too. She said no, and he left. I'm not going to crucify the guy for that.
 

sublimit

Banned
I'm here because i love video games. For good or worse i never cared for off-topic discussion,especially for politics and other controversial matters.Maybe it's wrong of me but i preffer to discuss those topics in real life rather than on the internet.

Anyway i'm glad GAF is back.I have been here for 8 years now and this is by far the best Gaming forum i've ever been.I hope nothing will change on the gaming side and moderation policies will remain as strict as they were before.
 

Nipo

Member
I think some of you are asking the wrong question.

It's like those threads when the CEO of a restaurant was a bigot.

If you still post here, are you condoning whatever might have happened?

That's the only question that matters.

No. If you want to define your morality by the corporations you support it is going to be miserable. Chick-fil-a makes great sandwiches it doesn't mean i hate gay people. NIke makes good workout gear it doesn't mean i support child labor. Huawei makes a good cell phone it doesn't mean I support China's opposition of ethnic minorities. Neogaf is one of the few sites where bigotry was met with an immediate ban in a hobby where the most popular streamer yells the n word and makes jokes about killing jews.
 

Nozem

Member
The problem with GAF is mainly that as an outsider it's REALLY complex to understand all the baggage of the "meta".

The moderation was/is a problem insofar a user has no idea about what's allowed and what's not.

For example I've observed that verbal abuse is fine... As long it's targeted at people that the moderation doesn't like, but it's then of course not tolerated in all the other cases.

And that's FINE too. I understand this is a community where people can vent off. It has a certain orientation that has a certain deliberate purpose. It wants to protect a certain category of people that are, so to speak, under the weather in real life. And because of what they get in real life, these people have the right to obtain small exceptions to the rules. To have a place where they can vent off and express legitimate frustration.

But again, this can be hardly understood by someone who comes here and suddenly observes that rules aren't applied uniformly.

It takes quite a bit of time to understand what is allowed and what is not, and quite frequently moderators would misunderstand what is being written just because at a superficial glance it looked like coming from a "rival" general opinion that they have a moral right to wall off.

This sort of general behavior, that I just said is legitimate and acceptable (after you understand how it works and can adapt to it) also has consequences that are not good, though.

It favors an extremism of opinions. When there are situations that are complex and nuanced the role of GAF as a community was always about drawing a very distinct line of "us versus them". To rally the troops and "close ranks". If there's some controversy about Boogie or Pwediepie or whoever, the role of GAF was to build distinct categories to frame these personalities. The role of GAF was to remove nuance and ambiguity in order to push away all legitimate doubt. Make clear cut distinctions. Orientate the part of the community that still had doubts. So for GAF Pewdiepie is always disingeuous, 100% nazi, 100% the enemy and the living embodiment of what the community should fight.

That's why you very often read in the comments something evoking "the hill to die on". As if one person cannot have a variety of opinions, but had to always get in some kind of war and defend just one single thing as the ultimate act that is asked of him/her. There's always this rhetoric of "going to war", that is never conductive of a civil and moderate discussion.

I don't want to discuss the specific case again, but just to underline that GAF had the purpose of drawing those sharp distinctions and labeling people so that they would be turned into targets. To remove all traces of doubt. So that the community could reinforce its identity and fight some projected enemy outside. This is never a good thing, it only builds higher walls and creates progressively more intolerance among people.

If in real life a person is a complex entity that comprises a multitude of ideas and behaviors, some good some bad. For GAF you only become a label. It's either enemy or friend. Instead of trying to encourage people to change for the good, GAF liked better to take them to the ground and beat them. To cut ties and carve out pieces of itself.

And the end result is that communities instead of unifying and sharing what they have, increasingly become antagonistic and turn on themselves, and... splinter...

The community turns on itself and breeds misunderstanding and hate.

Whenever a diplomat shows up, you shoot the diplomat in the head. Because you don't want to build bridges, you want to burn them. And yet, this will never lead to a better world. It doesn't work, and it's very sad to see it happening again and again.

When you are at war, complexity, nuance and doubt can only undermine your survival. So I can understand that people right now legitimately *feel* at war in today's world. But the more we plunge into this scenario, the more things are getting worse. (cue Fallout meme)

This is a great post, I agree 100%. Thanks for posting.
 

hivycox

Member
I'm glad this site is back up! Its my main source for gaming news. I never really cared for the off-topic forum.

But it's a shame that so many users decided to show their full blown bigotry rather than talk like normal human beings.
Why do people always love to promote chaos? Why can't this site and the other things be handled as two different objects. It' BS!

I hope that this community survive this and become stronger in the future. For me it's obvious: I will remain here till the end!
 

Zoggy

Member
Allegedly, right. But hey, lets forget about innocent until proven guilty. Anyway, her story is very unusual. Two friends (also an ex) alone on a road trip, getting drunk, sharing a hotel room. In a situation like that I would probably get "confused" too. She said no, and he left. I'm not going to crucify the guy for that.
I didn’t say he was guilty. But if the allegations are true then that is assault and I will crucify him for it.
 
Well, exactly why I said what I had to in those Naughty Dog accusation threads.

These accusations should be dealt privately first. If the victim was looking for an apology or some kind of recompense, they don't need to go straight to social media. It just causes problems for everyone.

Social media isn't going to solve any accusations. If the victim wants something, the court of law or a private personal apology is better. These social media accusations just open the window for false accusations.

Also, if people don't believe in Evilore, then stop using this website if you want to show your protest. Of course, with anonymity, that's not going to happen.

It was her private Facebook that was meant as a way to share stories to encourage other women to speak up. Not like she blasted it out on public shit or blog post. Stop with the victim blaming garbage.

And going to the court of law, are you fucking serious with this shit? How many times have women backed down from pressure? The current administration just stripped out an act that was designed to help women.
 
What kind of people have left the site? If the majority of them are the types of leftist extremists who only wanted to hear how amazingly moral each other were and weren't interested in educating or having simple conversations with anyone who wasn't as moral as they were...then SEE YA!

I hope OT comes back. I miss the fast (non-trump) news, obscure threads, and community topics. That was all that was keeping me here anyway.
 

OCD Guy

Member
This statement is a complete flop and gives me zero confidence in hanging around anytime soon. Trying to ban toxicity has only made this place even more toxic than before. Anyone with any common sense will bail from this shitshow. See ya.

What about her statement and the fact she conveniently left out the fact that she got into a relationship with him after the event? I think she should have added that part in her facebook post.

Also while I'm no doubt going to get bombarded with abuse, her statement said that when he got into the shower and she said no, he immediately got out. That doesn't sound like a crazy rapist/sexual harasser some are portraying him as.

Even the initial story where he grabbed a woman's arse, yes I get why some people don't like it, but I'm beginning to think some of you don't ever leave the house or have never been on a night out. That kinda shit happens all the time in clubs, and it's not deemed as serious as some of you think it is. If someone went to the police station and said "Someone grabbed my arse in the club" you'd probably get laughed out of the station.

Ultimately my issue is that some people are overreacting here, he's not a rapist, just sounds to me like he mis-reads signals.
 

Maedre

Banned
Did I miss the part about forced? Was someone raped? He was told no, and he listened. Why he thought it was ok to get naked in the shower could be a whole ton of reasons. Alcohol clouds your judgement. It’s highly possible he truly thought she was into him. The fact is you don’t know.


And thats the point of this all. There is a facebook post. Nothing more. This has led to this mess.
She said: He left after she said no. He may be a douchbag, but if its true that he went after the no, where is the problem?
We don't know more. There are no more infos and this piece of Infornation we got, can't be enough to start a witchhunt. It's ridicules.
 

wouwie

Member
So sad to see what happened with Neogaf. This was the only gaming related website i visited and needed. It was fast, offered a compact overview of the latest gaming news and had some great discussions going on (and not so great discussions at times but that is part of life and any place where humans interact. I've seen far worse almost everywhere else).

There is no way this site is going to survive with the current ownership. The only way to solve this with any chance of succes was new leadership, imo.
 

Gagaman

Member
What about her statement and the fact she conveniently left out the fact that she got into a relationship with him after the event?

Also while I'm no doubt going to get bombarded with abuse, her statement said that when he got into the shower and she said no, he immediately got out. That doesn't sound like a crazy rapist/sexual harasser some are portraying him as.

Even the initial story where he grabbed a woman's arse, yes I get why some people don't like it, but I'm beginning to think some of you don't ever leave the house or have never been on a night out. That kinda shit happens all the time in clubs, and it's not deemed as serious as some of you think it is.

Ultimately my issue is that some people are overreacting here, he's not a rapist, just sounds to me like he mis-reads signals.

Eh, I'm not getting involved. I'm not interested in it TBH. Gives me a good excuse to cut ties with the site and move on. If that comes across as selfish oh well.
 
What about her statement and the fact she conveniently left out the fact that she got into a relationship with him after the event? I think she should have added that part in her facebook post.

Also while I'm no doubt going to get bombarded with abuse, her statement said that when he got into the shower and she said no, he immediately got out. That doesn't sound like a crazy rapist/sexual harasser some are portraying him as.

Even the initial story where he grabbed a woman's arse, yes I get why some people don't like it, but I'm beginning to think some of you don't ever leave the house or have never been on a night out. That kinda shit happens all the time in clubs, and it's not deemed as serious as some of you think it is. If someone went to the police station and said "Someone grabbed my arse in the club" you'd probably get laughed out of the station.

Ultimately my issue is that some people are overreacting here, he's not a rapist, just sounds to me like he mis-reads signals.

Yeah, even the police doesn't take sexual assault seriously a lot of the time. What's your fucking point?
 
Dear Evilore, I was one of the many who "came for gaming and stayed for OT".

I never posted much but OT was just so good as a news aggregator and the mix of size and competence of the user base made it unique and distinct from social networks or places like reddit.

This place imploded a few days ago because of your too little, too late reaction, but also because this forum actively cultivated a form of zealotry. You can't say now that moderation became too difficult for certain topics, because that was the product of your choices over the years. Choices about who would become mod and what policy should they follow. You could have changed that. I remember a good pinned post some months ago. You talked but you really didn't do much. Drive-by posts on every topic,not just politics, were tolerated because they expressed the "right" point of view. This is a serious problem when politics are framed in absolute, moral (right/wrong) terms.

Now the mods have jumped ship at the first sight of trouble and the zealots are the ones that tell you to fuck off and go to hell. I don't really have a solution for this, but nuking OT, however temporarely, is clearly not a solution.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Sorry, but I don't care. I just fucking want to discuss my daily portion of video games, and it's not proven that the owner has done anything wrong. Some of you went way out of line based on a statement from a girl you don't know.
 

groansey

Member
Storm in a teacup.

Great that the forum is back and good riddance to those who commit account suicide and disrupt the place with abuse. NeoGAF will be better without them.
 
If you asked a question, you were accused of baiting. Do you guys realize how toxic that is? People should always be allowed to ask questions. If you asked for more evidence, you were done. Heck, I fucking hate Trump. But if I mention that? Then clearly, I'm lying... right? I'm just setting up for something else. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I've been far more left than almost every one here for longer than most here have been alive... but just because I don't agree with their agenda I risk being painted as a fascist, which is absurd. That's a culture of fear. That's censorship through ideology shaming. I guarantee my anarchy trumps your fucking Clinton loving nonsense, but god forbid I say anything against Clinton, because I get painted as a Trump loving fascist. That's sick. Sick, sick, sick. Broken minds led by broken ideology ruled by broken moderation that can't handle being questioned.

This is absolutely true.

As someone who has been on the far left all my life the whole Trump election and Brexit situation have been predicted for a long time due to the way the "centre left" has basically abandoned all true left wing policies and fixated on identity politics - it was no surprise that would lead to disenfranchisement of the working class, particularly when the centre left now brand them as somehow genetically inferior subhumans that are born evil and were destined to vote Trump from the moment they were conceived.

But you can't talk about that. The moment you even acknowledge the possibility that a Trump voter might not be a pure evil monster that could have possibly voted for someone even more liberal than Sanders if politics and the media weren't the way they are, you are branded a white supremacist or some such bullshit.

There is little to no constructive value in discussing politics on NeoGAF.
 
My point is that I don't believe that's sexual assualt.

What you believe doesn't matter. Words have meanings.

I have been sexually assaulted as a child and I don't feel insulted, btw, but thanks for talking over victims.

This is absolutely true.

As someone who has been on the far left all my life the whole Trump election and Brexit situation have been predicted for a long time due to the way the "centre left" has basically abandoned all true left wing policies and fixated on identity politics - it was no surprise that would lead to disenfranchisement of the working class, particularly when the centre left now brand them as somehow genetically inferior subhumans that are born evil and were destined to vote Trump from the moment they were conceived.

But you can't talk about that. The moment you even acknowledge the possibility that a Trump voter might not be a pure evil monster that could have possibly voted for someone even more liberal than Sanders if politics and the media weren't the way they are, you are branded a white supremacist or some such bullshit.

There is little to no constructive value in discussing politics on NeoGAF.

Don't call yourself a leftist if economic policies are the only thing you care about. Minorities and social justice are as much a part of leftism as economic policies are.
 
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