Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
I'm left wing as all hell and not white.
I'm kinda glad white liberals are leaving. Ya'll insufferable.
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The state of NeoGAF
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
I'm left wing as all hell and not white.
I'm kinda glad white liberals are leaving. Ya'll insufferable.
It was the poor handling of the situation is why many are leaving.
I have always wanted GAF to go back to being a place to relax and discuss games without all politically correct and OT drama. I fully support GAF going back to it's roots.
Good job guys! Don't look back.
There are a bunch of things revealed in the past few days that I had no clue about and I was a regular poster in OT. I never bothered to dig deep into GAF and stayed in my lane (sports, film, TV, LEGO, random posts). Your post just revealed something I didn't even know about.
It is not just one issue but multiples issues that have come to light recently (at least to me) that makes this place somewhere I can no longer be part of.
Farewell to those from MLB GAF, Box Office GAF, LEGO GAF, and all the random film and TV threads.
I'm out.
Posted this in the waypoint thread, but I'd like to include it here:
I know it sounds selfish, but I don't want to be derided because I am on GAF. As much as I like some of the mods, I didn't come here for them or for Evilore or whatever. Quite frankly, I came here in spite of some of those people.
I came here because I loved the community, I loved the discussion, I loved being able to dissect leaks or directly interact with those working in gaming. Heck, I loved that GAF held it self to a higher standard. Where other sites can get bogged by trolling, nefarious shit posters, etc, the comparatively strict requirements to get into (and stay) in this community fostered cleaner, better discussions.
When people would talk about the 'cesspools' like gamefaqs, 4chan, or even reddit, whether right or wrong, it was generally assumed that GAF was above those places. When subsets of those places would make fun of GAF as a pedo/sjw paradise, it was generally considered nonsense from alt-righters or trolls. So now after all this drama, has GAFs 'position' in the community changed? I've always been proud to be a GAFer, but for the first time now I just don't know. I don't want to be part of a community with a 'bad' reputation, you know? Like I said at the beginning, I don't want to be derided because I like chatting with people about a hobby we share.
I know it sounds selfish, but I don't want to be derided because I am on GAF. As much as I like some of the mods, I didn't come here for them or for Evilore or whatever. Quite frankly, I came here in spite of some of those people.
I came here because I loved the community, I loved the discussion, I loved being able to dissect leaks or directly interact with those working in gaming. Heck, I loved that GAF held it self to a higher standard. Where other sites can get bogged by trolling, nefarious shit posters, etc, the comparatively strict requirements to get into (and stay) in this community fostered cleaner, better discussions.
When people would talk about the 'cesspools' like gamefaqs, 4chan, or even reddit, whether right or wrong, it was generally assumed that GAF was above those places. When subsets of those places would make fun of GAF as a pedo/sjw paradise, it was generally considered nonsense from alt-righters or trolls. So now after all this drama, has GAFs 'position' in the community changed? I've always been proud to be a GAFer, but for the first time now I just don't know. I don't want to be part of a community with a 'bad' reputation, you know? Like I said at the beginning, I don't want to be derided because I like chatting with people about a hobby we share.
cleveridea
Member
How do the economics of a site like neogaf work? Any idea the basics like money in (presumably entirely ad revenue) and and out (cost of hosting, any technical stuff)?
As long as the site retains the content that I like (for example posts on less popular video games like niche JRPG's, lesser known steam releases, VR etc) then I'd keep visiting the site. I wonder what the economics are in terms of the amount of traffic the site needs to keep it economically viable...
As long as the site retains the content that I like (for example posts on less popular video games like niche JRPG's, lesser known steam releases, VR etc) then I'd keep visiting the site. I wonder what the economics are in terms of the amount of traffic the site needs to keep it economically viable...
Oh wow, what a ride. Never thought of EviLore as a normal person up until now. With all the far left mods gone maybe all the cancer of this forum will be ripped out in one fell swoop. Now what's left is to get the good reputation back from years ago, or at least get it on restorative track, and then sell the website when market value gets back to six zeroes. Brilliant. In the meantime, can we speak freely?
I think games are pure art, and i love them for this. I'm a grown ass man and i don't need man-children preaching about what is the right way to live. I'm centrist, a good person, in two months - hopefully a good father. Get the fuck off my GAF to reddit and jerk each others morally superior wieners there. I'm here for the games and err.. anime.
Also, Bioware can suck my cock. Both of EvilWithin games are mediocre clunky throwbacks. Last of Us 2 trailer is cringe to the max. Best 2016 game is Axiom Verge. No one actually likes Sunset Overdrive, and american "football" is actually poor mans rugby.
I think games are pure art, and i love them for this. I'm a grown ass man and i don't need man-children preaching about what is the right way to live. I'm centrist, a good person, in two months - hopefully a good father. Get the fuck off my GAF to reddit and jerk each others morally superior wieners there. I'm here for the games and err.. anime.
Also, Bioware can suck my cock. Both of EvilWithin games are mediocre clunky throwbacks. Last of Us 2 trailer is cringe to the max. Best 2016 game is Axiom Verge. No one actually likes Sunset Overdrive, and american "football" is actually poor mans rugby.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
Typical guilty behavior: make the person who speaks up look crazy/mentally unstable.
nelsonroyale
Member
Fair enough...but I also feel that some of those I have seen leaving have also handled themselves poorly...Just goes to show that many people have some issues in terms of articulating and venting. I just think there is a rather heated context right now because of the exposures in Hollywood. It is great if more women are able to come out and highlight idiots who have wronged them. However, the internet is what we have, but it is a poor platform in many ways, and people often articulate themselves in unflattering ways - just as Evilore and other posters on here have.
Gaius: You sound as stable as you think you sound...and maybe not as 'good' a person as you think either.
Later friend! Also if you're still reading, as a film suggestion go see Happy Death Day. Suprisingly good movie.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I dunno. I think the rub is that Evilore's account of events and reaction to all of this actually makes him look less sympathetic than her account does.
It's just bizarre.
KarneeKarnay
Member
Did you quote the wrong message? Because in no way did you respond to my questions.
Firstly no one is blaming Neogaf for EvilLore maybe having sexually harassed a person.
Secondly a lot of people are reserving judgement on him. Including myself. However you have to be drinking the KoolAid by the gallon, to think they way he's handled it was appropriate. He's not only damaged the website and it' community, he's insulted the accuser and tried to cast doubt by claiming she's mentally unstable. No matter how you look at it, it's a dick move.
Thirdly, she obviously thought it was a big deal when she felt the need to tell others for the first time over FB. Hell a lot of the women in Hollywood harassed by Wienstine just thought it wasn't a big deal. They didn't even think about it in that light till all the accusations came out. Even if she did later go on to have a relationship with him, it was still inappropriate and illegal thing to do.
nothing is disproved either and it's natural that people work under guilty until proven otherwise.
Jesus christ.
Good points.
It all boils down to one question: can you still be a part of NeoGaf with it's rules and terms even if the CEO does not follow those rules in RL? I took me one day to answer this question with "yes". At the end of the day this is just a fucking message board - this is not a state, a religion, a philosophic school etc.
There are things I've pointed out in this thread I don't really like about NeoGaf - would I leave the site because of it: No. I will try my best to avoid any drama and focus on the one thing I've came here in the first place: news, gaming discussions, funny rumors.
I will try to avoid every thread related to hot topics (gender, racism, politics) like the plague - here I draw the line - under the current circumstances this is not what I want to discuss here. And this is not Evilore's fault alone.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
A string of stuff through the years (read the Waypoint artcicle) with EL not owning up to this in, what they feel, an honest way being the straw that broke the camels back.
nelsonroyale
Member
This is a balanced response. More of this.
The entire site came down for like 2 days and almost all the mods stepped down. Seemed like a big deal, more than just a general he said-she said thing. I won't pretend to know anything, but for a period of time it really felt like GAF was gone for good.
EL has a history of misconduct.
He posted revenge porn against an ex (all posts about that got deleted).
He has gropped women in bars (a few GAF members were there and posted the girl was horrified by EL grabbing her against her will)
And now this....It isn't about this incident. It is about a pattern of behavior. This just was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
I disagree that Off Topic was the problem. The problem was and is not allowing discussion on a discussion board. When it came to social discussion on Gaf you had 3 choices...
1. Completely agree with Gaf and receive a pat on the back because you are so advanced and progressive.
2. Shut up and not voice your thoughts
3. Disagree or not fully agree with Gaf. You will get banned someway some how.
That's what needs to change. You shouldn't receive a ban because you disagree with social Gaf.
1. Completely agree with Gaf and receive a pat on the back because you are so advanced and progressive.
2. Shut up and not voice your thoughts
3. Disagree or not fully agree with Gaf. You will get banned someway some how.
That's what needs to change. You shouldn't receive a ban because you disagree with social Gaf.
You are going to be an awful father.
SuperBanana
Banned
It was revealed and proven that he posted revenge porn of a girl online including her full name which Amirox, an admin and convicted pedophile then printed and and cummed over and send to the BF. It's also proven by his own posts that he sexually assaulted a woman in Spain by groping her. This is the third incident and even if it's false the other two are damning enough.
Euphoria14
Member
Won't give my opinion on the ongoing allegations and such as it isn't my place, however I won't lie. It's comforting to see OT gone for a little while and a push back against political and social discussions moving forward.
OT political discourse was incredibly toxic and it always bothered me that the slightest bit of difference of opinion came with terrible labels and accusations of a person character. This happened even when you were on the same side politically. One difference was all it took for things to go south.
OT political discourse was incredibly toxic and it always bothered me that the slightest bit of difference of opinion came with terrible labels and accusations of a person character. This happened even when you were on the same side politically. One difference was all it took for things to go south.
Dear GAF, I have read EvilLore's statement and that of the the presumed victim. They are both conflicting accounts of what happened with no evidence. I think it is perfectly okay to probe and question but to condemn someone on the basis of accusations without proof? That feels completely wrong.
This is actually what's wrong with society right now. Sometimes people get accused and have to go fight their case in court. However, even if they are vindicated, they will often be regarded by a section of society as guilty.
Isn't it hypocrisy to be taking a stance against a moral wrong such as sexual harassment but then be guilty of another moral wrong such prejudice towards someone?
This is actually what's wrong with society right now. Sometimes people get accused and have to go fight their case in court. However, even if they are vindicated, they will often be regarded by a section of society as guilty.
Isn't it hypocrisy to be taking a stance against a moral wrong such as sexual harassment but then be guilty of another moral wrong such prejudice towards someone?
Geno Breaker
Banned
The mods handled the situation horribly when news of the allegations reached GAF. It was the straw that broke the camel's back because similar incidents were also handled poorly before and people had many issues with the admin/mod team on here already. The owner has an unfortunate history of these kinds of things and people were tired of it. Sucks that the community will never be the same now that it's splintered off but oh well.
prag16
Banned
Assuming for a second that she's full of shit, I can understand his tirades and rage; and some of his venting was intended to stay private among mods, but somebody betrayed him.
But his account here came across really butthurt and unprofessional too, so he could use a good PR representative or something.
He certainly doesn't come out of this looking good. But many of the blaze of glory account suiciders come off looking even worse in some respects. I don't think anybody looks good right now anywhere around here.
BlastProcessing
Member
So I can't judge events based on the accusations. That would be wrong and I don't know the details of what occurred. What I can judge is the statements given to Waypoint and the post at the top of this thread and those are revolting. Immediately jumping to the "mentally ill woman" defense is not a good look. Having two conflicting stories about the Spain incident in one interview doesn't exactly engender confidence. Trying to spin the shutdown of the OT as a positive, proactive decision is the type of insane PR blunder that this forum would skewer a company for, but here you are, unironically trying to sell it.
It was amazing to listen to tape of Bill O'reilly and read Malka's statement to Waypoint in the same day. Both are incoherent, inconsistent streams where the only consistent thread is that they are the true victim here.
Tyler, get help. I say this not because I particularly care for you or want you to get a second
chance, but because I know that there will be more "misunderstandings", more "women with mental health problems", and more chaos until you take an ounce of responsibility for your actions.
It was amazing to listen to tape of Bill O'reilly and read Malka's statement to Waypoint in the same day. Both are incoherent, inconsistent streams where the only consistent thread is that they are the true victim here.
Tyler, get help. I say this not because I particularly care for you or want you to get a second
, or third of fourth or fifth,
Fluffernutter Pancake
Member
Exactly!
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Apparently you're not as grown as you think
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I guess like many gafers that don't really keep up with everything, I simply head no idea. When the site was crashing I had no idea what was going on. I just kept up with some ot and gaming stuff here. I never paid attention to what the mods deleted or what Malka posted or any social media.
I have to sleep now, I'll catch up with all this later. Might be better for me to just read for a while instead of post.
Haha, ironic because crass and sordid languages is what separate the man-child from the grown ass man.
RobFox64tm
Member
What year is it?
I had no idea any of this was going on until this morning. I don't know what to think right now... NeoGaf has been a great forum and resource for me for over a decade. I feel legit sick about this. I just wanted to talk about games with like-minded folks... not sure where I can do that now. I don't think Gaf can ever fully recover from this. It's a damn shame...
Edit: Eh, don't ban me yet, actually. I want to see where this all goes. I don't want people to think I believe the accusations OR the response. I don't know the truth certain enough to cast blame on any party, but I also don't have any stake in protecting someone I don't know personally. For all I know, he could be a terrible person who treats women deplorably while trying to draw attention away from the issue. On the other hand, the accusations could be false, and the situation got so overblown that this guy is struggling to make things right. It's not impossible for a scorned lover to try and damage someone's reputation; it's happened before.
If it is proven that the accusations are true, then I'm out, of course.
I had no idea any of this was going on until this morning. I don't know what to think right now... NeoGaf has been a great forum and resource for me for over a decade. I feel legit sick about this. I just wanted to talk about games with like-minded folks... not sure where I can do that now. I don't think Gaf can ever fully recover from this. It's a damn shame...
Edit: Eh, don't ban me yet, actually. I want to see where this all goes. I don't want people to think I believe the accusations OR the response. I don't know the truth certain enough to cast blame on any party, but I also don't have any stake in protecting someone I don't know personally. For all I know, he could be a terrible person who treats women deplorably while trying to draw attention away from the issue. On the other hand, the accusations could be false, and the situation got so overblown that this guy is struggling to make things right. It's not impossible for a scorned lover to try and damage someone's reputation; it's happened before.
If it is proven that the accusations are true, then I'm out, of course.
Freeman76
Member
This is the problem, people here 'think' they are better than elsewhere when it comes to gaming. The reality is that GAF is the same as anywhere else, with a fairly large %of members who bully other members when they have opposing viewpoints.
SpartanN92
Banned
Yep... people would rip you to shreds if you didn't go with the flow.
Lord forbid you disagreed with with the general gaf consensus in a political thread.
Neither you nor Evilore are remotely close to being a normal person.
Old Empire.
Member
Wienstine was harassing women who did not feel the same way. This is thing you people are failing to see in this case. She admits she liked him before the shower incident, and after was not disgusted he had exposed himself to her. She later jumped into bed with him and felt those parts he exposed to her ( this is the reality) and you people need to stop overreacting to things you read on the internet or hear from others
Intheflorsh
Banned
So, like, who would I PM to change a spelling error in a thread title?
This... this is so fucking true....
There was no actual "discussion" here on GAF for a very long time.
You either agreed to the agenda and be quiet or you are going to face a mob of people ready to smear and vilify you in a way that honestly was cruel and appalling.
The bullying that went on if you dared to voice your even somehwat different opinion (while being gang banged by 20 people throwing names at you) was unbelievable.
Yet no bans were thrown for all that bullying, or rather bans were been given away but mostly to those who were victims of this. I have been called a racist for entering a debate of whether it is ok or not to laugh at a black/white/asian/whatever joke in the confines of my company... because, supposedly, subconsciously I am supporting/perpetuating the problem by laughing at something like this and I am somehow equivalent to a racist human trash. As if people know who and what I am and how I live my life out of 2 fucking sentences in here...
The hypocrisy of people presenting themselves as individuals who want to have a better world, a world that treats humans better and yet they are ready to crucify you online the moment you even dare to voice your opinion that differs from theirs is just ugly and pathetic.
But oftentimes... the disagreement to the consensus was racist, sexist, etc.
A lot of it comes from people not being allowed to say what they wanted to say due to strict moderation, some of it unfair at times and fear of getting banned.
Its been years and years of anger and frustration which is finally coming out with the mods gone. Some of it understandable and some it well Evilore waiting too long to come with a statement.
We will see where things go from here. Everyone seems to be getting their say.
Bullying is definitely a problem. Heck, I've been victim to it here. My point wasn't that GAF was overall 'better', it was that the stricter community requirements kept away some of the most heinous stuff you find in places like 4chan/reddit etc (overt racism, hate speech, etc).
Alter_Fridge
Member
Anyway to tell how many users have gotten themselves banned/asked to be banned after the event?
Be nice to see member before and after figures
Be nice to see member before and after figures
Ethical Hedonism
Banned
Yeah you couldn't say whatever you wanted if you couldn't back it up with facts and non-fallacious arguments.
Sad that many can't see this way.
Sad that many can't see this way.
The Albatross
Member
I know it's unlikely that Evilore would consider my suggestions from this thread, but can we at least remove the 'NeoGaf - Believe' subtitle. It's always been lame, it's always made the site look childish and self-important, but now it's legitimately embarrassing and is a token emblem of hypocrisy. That, if these allegations were pinned on any other head of a tech-sector website or business, Evilore and site leadership would take the position that the victim should be believed, but the first immediate response of Evilore and then the second, measured response was to undercut and question the victim's integrity.
In the grand scheme of things this request is unimportant, and while I think the right thing to do is for Malka to take a leave of absence and hand over control to a board, the stupid, immature, embarrassing site logo should be updated regardless. There are large gestures that should be made, but that doesn't mean small gestures can't be made in the meantime.
In the grand scheme of things this request is unimportant, and while I think the right thing to do is for Malka to take a leave of absence and hand over control to a board, the stupid, immature, embarrassing site logo should be updated regardless. There are large gestures that should be made, but that doesn't mean small gestures can't be made in the meantime.
wtf is this going to be the new site?
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