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Perfect Dark’s Game Director leaves The Initiative

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Interfectum

Member
the only good thing came from this i guess but i think old MS is needed here sometimes you need step in they are being too nice to these studios .


If you have ever managed before or are a parent, you know how risky this management style is. If you are seen as lenient people will take advantage over time. There should be no gray areas, people operate horribly under gray. It's no wonder that MS is flooded with studios and barely a game in sight right now. You can also see it with 343 and Halo. How the hell is MS not lighting a fire under 343's ass is beyond me.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed


2BULuI.gif
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Many similarities with Paris Sant Germain in football. They tried to create a dream team but then they have not been able to make a team. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Perfect Dark reboot has gone from being a game developed by a group of talent people... to a game developed by Crystal Dinamics lead by a small group of talent people.

From my point of view the change is not bad at all, CD is a high-level studio (especially in the technologicalaspect), established and that can ensure a more than competent result. But it is clear that the final result will be looked at with a magnifying glass when the time comes, and the media and critics (I never understood the reason) usually remember and penalize complex developments when it comes to their analysis of the final game.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!


So… is it safe to say this is more of a Crystal Dynamics game than a The Initiative game?

It’s pretty interesting, it could be compared to something like Bloodborne/Demon’s Souls but with CD instead of From Software i guess.

Yikes.

I wonder if there was just too many big wigs in the house, well that were in the house. They had a lot of big name people to try and make this "dream" team of devs. Thats for sure gonna cause some peoples ideas and egos to clash.

Be interesting to see what happens but they clearly announced this game way too early.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
If you have ever managed before or are a parent, you know how risky this management style is. If you are seen as lenient people will take advantage over time. There should be no gray areas, people operate horribly under gray. It's no wonder that MS is flooded with studios and barely a game in sight right now. You can also see it with 343 and Halo. How the hell is MS not lighting a fire under 343's ass is beyond me.
From the article, it seems like a case of a bunch of whiny devs who dont like being told what to do by the fucking directors of the game. I have seen this at other studios where people are upset the game is being led by directors. The so-called top down approach. They want bottoms up as if a low level designer should have the same say as the mother fucking director of the game. This is exactly what happens when you allow this collaborative approach at studios where everyone can come up to a director and pitch their idea.

No. Fuck your ideas. You are a lowly engineer. A fucking factory worker. Earn your stripes. Get in a lead position and then maybe you can take an appointment with the director who doesnt have to do whatever bullshit idea you might have.

Imagine Stanely Kubrick taking notes from a random camera operator or set designer. I have no idea why this is a thing at video game studios. The director should have all the power. The only collaboration he needs are from the editors, the composers and the cinematographer/director of photography. Everyone else deals with assistant directors who are incharge of executing the director's vision.

Top down approach is why Myazaki and Hideo Kojima are so damn productive compared to these western studios who are taking forever to churn out mediocre games. MS needs to give directors the backing they need. If people dont like that kind of directing style, they should not even be hired at a new studio.
 

Interfectum

Member
From the article, it seems like a case of a bunch of whiny devs who dont like being told what to do by the fucking directors of the game. I have seen this at other studios where people are upset the game is being led by directors. The so-called top down approach. They want bottoms up as if a low level designer should have the same say as the mother fucking director of the game. This is exactly what happens when you allow this collaborative approach at studios where everyone can come up to a director and pitch their idea.

No. Fuck your ideas. You are a lowly engineer. A fucking factory worker. Earn your stripes. Get in a lead position and then maybe you can take an appointment with the director who doesnt have to do whatever bullshit idea you might have.

Imagine Stanely Kubrick taking notes from a random camera operator or set designer. I have no idea why this is a thing at video game studios. The director should have all the power. The only collaboration he needs are from the editors, the composers and the cinematographer/director of photography. Everyone else deals with assistant directors who are incharge of executing the director's vision.

Top down approach is why Myazaki and Hideo Kojima are so damn productive compared to these western studios who are taking forever to churn out mediocre games. MS needs to give directors the backing they need. If people dont like that kind of directing style, they should not even be hired at a new studio.
Yup. These people are operating in shades of gray. They have no true deadline, they think direction from the game director is merely a request and not a directive and they all believe they have a voice on the direction of the project. I can't even imagine how bad it's going to get when everyone knows they can run to Kotaku and whine and it puts the studio on blast.
 
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kikkis

Member
From the article, it seems like a case of a bunch of whiny devs who dont like being told what to do by the fucking directors of the game. I have seen this at other studios where people are upset the game is being led by directors. The so-called top down approach. They want bottoms up as if a low level designer should have the same say as the mother fucking director of the game. This is exactly what happens when you allow this collaborative approach at studios where everyone can come up to a director and pitch their idea.

No. Fuck your ideas. You are a lowly engineer. A fucking factory worker. Earn your stripes. Get in a lead position and then maybe you can take an appointment with the director who doesnt have to do whatever bullshit idea you might have.

Imagine Stanely Kubrick taking notes from a random camera operator or set designer. I have no idea why this is a thing at video game studios. The director should have all the power. The only collaboration he needs are from the editors, the composers and the cinematographer/director of photography. Everyone else deals with assistant directors who are incharge of executing the director's vision.

Top down approach is why Myazaki and Hideo Kojima are so damn productive compared to these western studios who are taking forever to churn out mediocre games. MS needs to give directors the backing they need. If people dont like that kind of directing style, they should not even be hired at a new studio.
I partially agree, I think its good for director to keep eyes open for feedback even from lowly engineers, but chain of command and responsibility should still be in place.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
This sounds fucked, not gonna lie. The initiative does not sound like it is in a good place at all.
sony Santa Monica had issues, scrapped their entire game and we got god of war but can we really trust this dev team to do something similar.
it sounds like a shit show.
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Half the staff gone, soft reboot with Crystal Dynamics, years away still. Pack it up.
Yup.

Are they foreal with this? MS needs to get its shit together. You can buy all the studios you want but if none of them can show competence and make a quality game then fuck off. Come on man, where is the competence? How are they running these studios?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If we're gonna see anything on this game this E3, won't be surprised if the trailer/marketing has the Crystal Dynamics branding front and center as the developer.
 
Just finding out about this. Calling it right now, this game is NOT coming before 2026. I suspect they had no actual playable foundation for the game when they showed the trailer at TGS in 2020, and probably only started shortly afterwards building out (that) version of the game. Which according to this report, was going painfully slow, so 9 months passing (before they got Crystal Dynamics involved) wasn't actually 9 months worth of normal progress.

The typical AAA game (which IIRC is what this still is, right?) takes 5 years to make; at best they probably have about four months of legitimate progress on the game, so if they need about 5 years then, assuming no more issues pop up, it MIGHT be ready by Summer 2026. Just think about that: a game with a CGI trailer in December 2020, actual release probably in November 2026 (because we know Microsoft tend to not release games in the summer), from a studio initially established in 2018!!

That is actually ridiculous, but that's not even the most pressing thing. I thought The Initiative were going to be allowed to be creatively free? I thought that was the philosophy as a whole for XGS, right? So why did they lose half their talent in just a year when the game is obviously still in very early stages? Yeah, because of them having little creative control and freedom. Preach one thing publicly, do something else privately huh?

This game was simply shown way too soon, just like Everwild, and now that casts doubt on pretty much EVERY other announced XGS game in terms of how far along are they really. How well is their development going behind the scenes really. Because if we already have not one but two XGS games in a state of deep developer turmoil (despite what any studio head is going to say; of course they won't be truthful about the state of things if any of that includes more bad news or backs up the bad news already reported!), who's to say Hellblade II is actually on track for 2023 (remember when insiders were saying it could be 2022? Good times!)? Avowed for 2023? Well, maybe, but we only have Jez's word and they could've seen anything, in any state, and still say what they said. We're supposed to assume the next Forza Motorsport is this year but is it really? Where's any official word on that, or anything to reveal for it suggesting it will in fact be coming this year? Was Fable also only in extremely early phase with its 2020 CGI trailer? Is that further out than 2023 or even 2024? Who knows!!

It's kind of time to really start asking the hard questions. Is Matt Booty failing XGS? Does he need to be replaced? Because this, Everwild, Halo Infinite...it all falls under his watch. He's a Minecraft guy, maybe he is better off running Mojang. These shouldn't be controversial questions; I wouldn't have to ask them if there wasn't a trend of evidence forming to make them worth asking in the first place! Let me be clear: this is solely about the XGS teams, not the Zenimax ones, and not the ABK ones that'll be coming next year.

That said, I can definitely understand the trepidation people have in Microsoft acquiring studios, when you look at the current picture. How can Bethesda be guaranteed higher polish, and bigger success on a larger network of platforms (not Sony or Nintendo), when Halo Infinite has failed to bring polish with its content and despite being available on more platforms than ever, has miserable peak concurrent players of 10K - 12K on Steam, while dropping fast on Xbox? How is Todd going to have that assured backing to revitalize classic IP like Fallout and Elder Scrolls to their glory days when Microsoft couldn't even manage that for their marquee IP that's the face of the brand, in Halo Infinite? How are ABK's workplace culture for their teams going to be changed for the better (in terms of creative production and flow; it'll obviously get better in terms of getting rid of the harassment issues and employees) when they see things like Everwild stuck in a perpetual reboot cycle and The Initiative facing a 50% turnover rate in a single year before first gameplay has even been shown? What confidence is that supposed to inspire to ABK developers who are already considering jumping ship before the acquisition because of the BS they still have to put up with right now over there on the harassment front, let alone possibly then coming under the wing of a publisher with home-grown studios and prior acquisitions struggling to retain a stable production pipeline?

This stuff isn't in a vacuum and I can promise a lot of other people are thinking these same things, in one way or another. Honestly feels like Microsoft were scrambling at the last possible moment (2018) to prepare for this new generation, I mean they were going to shut the division down potentially some point before then, right? So obviously R&D on hardware & software investments would've been massively reduced if not frozen. But you need more than two years to prepare for a new generation these days, and it's looking kind of more obvious they needed more time specifically. I mean, why are we getting new big 1P content from Bethesda, who they only announced to acquire in 2020 (and completed in 2021) on Xbox in the form of Starfield, before we get Obsidian or Compulsion or Ninja Theory's next big game, when those studios were acquired two years before Bethesda? Why is their 2022 looking like it's going to be relying on output from an acquisition made late in 2020, and yet another expected Forza Motorsport entry? What is going on?

And yes if you can't tell I'm frustrated and I made this more about XGS as a whole and even Microsoft's strategy when it comes to some things because I thought they would finally have had a real handle on this stuff after all the issues with teams & games during the XBO generation. But they clearly don't, they still clearly have some of the same issues and now that could be magnified because of the sheer number of teams they have now and who's to say Phil Spencer is going to do that much better managing over the three divisions than Matt Booty has been doing managing over the XGS teams? I mean let's be honest Phil Spencer doesn't have a spotless track record when it comes to his tenure running XGS either, and that was during the XBO generation before his promotion. He's done some good stuff but he could've done more, but how are we to expect he'll do more with a much larger plate than he was able to with a much smaller one, in terms of competency and getting everything to gel together?

We're once again in a situation where Microsoft has to prove itself in the one way that'll shut up all the growing doubt, and very soon: show US where these games are really at, at least some of them, and do it soon. Like the saying goes, "let the games do the talking".
 
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Umbasaborne

Banned
Its just frustrating that this has become microsofts m/o over the past decade for everything triple a thats not gears or forza. They announce like 5-6 years too early, a bunch of people leave, then the project comes out unfinished, underwhelming, or it gets outright cancelled. As an xbox fan, its frustrating as fuck to watch them repeat the same mistakes every time.
 
Its just frustrating that this has become microsofts m/o over the past decade for everything triple a thats not gears or forza. They announce like 5-6 years too early, a bunch of people leave, then the project comes out unfinished, underwhelming, or it gets outright cancelled. As an xbox fan, its frustrating as fuck to watch them repeat the same mistakes every time.

Umm, why are you xbox fan then ?

Time to move on?
 
From the article, it seems like a case of a bunch of whiny devs who dont like being told what to do by the fucking directors of the game. I have seen this at other studios where people are upset the game is being led by directors. The so-called top down approach. They want bottoms up as if a low level designer should have the same say as the mother fucking director of the game. This is exactly what happens when you allow this collaborative approach at studios where everyone can come up to a director and pitch their idea.

No. Fuck your ideas. You are a lowly engineer. A fucking factory worker. Earn your stripes. Get in a lead position and then maybe you can take an appointment with the director who doesnt have to do whatever bullshit idea you might have.

Imagine Stanely Kubrick taking notes from a random camera operator or set designer. I have no idea why this is a thing at video game studios. The director should have all the power. The only collaboration he needs are from the editors, the composers and the cinematographer/director of photography. Everyone else deals with assistant directors who are incharge of executing the director's vision.

Top down approach is why Myazaki and Hideo Kojima are so damn productive compared to these western studios who are taking forever to churn out mediocre games. MS needs to give directors the backing they need. If people dont like that kind of directing style, they should not even be hired at a new studio.

Even if all of this is the case, you'd think Microsoft/Matt Booty would've tried communicating to Gallagher to hire people that would have no issues working under his orders. But that's not how The Initiative was advertised, so they got what they advertised.

Once again, some of that at the very least points back to Booty.
 

SSfox

Member
Well it sucks, but wasn't looking too much into those guys tbh, the way there was too much blabla with no concrete showing was already feeling very suspicious so, but good luck anyway.

But most importantly i don't like this Crystal Dynamics helping Initiative Bullshit, Square Enix need to remove the Tomb Raider franchise from this studio and give it to a studio that cares and are passionate about Tomb Raider and Lara Croft.
 
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Stuart360

Member
It would be interesting to know how many of these devs left AFTER Crystal Dynamics were brought on board. I sensed problems coming up when that was announced.

One thing is for certain, this 'hands off' approach doesnt always work. Studios also need guidance at times. Fuck this 'we dont want toxicity' nonsense, kick their arses if it needs to be done.
343 produced a great game in Halo Infinite, but a year late and starved of content. 343 needed a kick up the backside long ago.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Us green rats feel the pain. Microsoft has had a few great releases with forza horizon and I really enjoyed the last gears and halo infinite but there is some serious shit going on with how they manage their studios over the last generation and now with the initiative.

I agree with everyone, they showed games far too early. It’s embarrassing. Yes Covid has been a bitch but if they don’t have a great E3 showing fable etc then I am totally at a loss into what games have been getting developed for years.

shit news, and not what I wanted to hear about perfect dark.
 
.

To be fair, it sounds like he is a real fan, that actually cares about the projects Microsoft works on and gets disappointed when they don't meet expectations.

The guy seemly wants Microsft to succeed, asking him why he is a fan feels strange to me.

If you are disappointed, no need to be a fan.

I am currently playing on xbox and absolutely loved Halo Infinite.

Would never be their fan if they disappointed me or their design choices doesn't align with what I wanna see and play.
 

jm89

Member
Spencer needs to go. He knows very well how to spend money, but actually delivering quality, first-party games?
He saw the writing on the wall, most those pre Bethesda acqusitions haven't delivered enough, years and alot of them have barley showed anything significant.

Cant be relying on Forza horizon 24 and halo 29 years down the line. Gotta buy your self out of mediocrity.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Perfect Dark is the new Halo Infinite
Considering the amount of time that has already been spent on the game, I can see the similarities.

But although Halo doesn't have the name it used to have, it's still has a core fanbase. Perfect Dark came out 20 years ago and doesn't have that to fall upon.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Considering the amount of time that has already been spent on the game, I can see the similarities.

But although Halo doesn't have the name it used to have, it's still has a core fanbase. Perfect Dark came out 20 years ago and doesn't have that to fall upon.
And only one good entry. The follow-up was complete garbage. Very little reason for this game to exist outside of the MS hope that it might sell of course.
 

sircaw

Banned
If you are disappointed, no need to be a fan.

I am currently playing on xbox and absolutely loved Halo Infinite.

Would never be their fan if they disappointed me or their design choices doesn't align with what I wanna see and play.
Are you a fan of Microsoft game studios?

As far as i remember you are one of their biggest cheerleaders.

You don't get upset if their games don't meet expectations?

That's just fucking bizarre lol
 
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Are you a fan of Microsoft game studios?

As far as i remember you are one of their biggest cheerleaders.

You don't get upset if their games don't meet expectations?

That's just fucking bizarre lol

They making good stuff lately.

Was in Nintendo camp during Xbone era.
 

sircaw

Banned
They making good stuff lately.

Was in Nintendo camp during Xbone era.
So as a fan, if Microsoft releases say, Starfield, and it's terrible, that would not upset you>?

Because i can tell you now, as a fan of sony games, if Sony released the next God of war and it was rubbish i would be very upset.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So as a fan, if Microsoft releases say, Starfield, and it's terrible, that would not upset you>?

Because i can tell you now, as a fan of sony games, if Sony released the next God of war and it was rubbish i would be very upset.

If you're a fan of anything and it turns out to be rubbish you oughta be upset.

But this Perfect Dark game hasn't even seen any kind of game play for anyone to be this upset about, it may as well be vaporware especially now that it seems to be undergoing a soft reboot of sorts.
 

sircaw

Banned
If you're a fan of anything and it turns out to be rubbish you oughta be upset.

But this Perfect Dark game hasn't even seen any kind of game play for anyone to be this upset about, it may as well be vaporware especially now that it seems to be undergoing a soft reboot of sorts.
That's nonsense and you know it.

There are many fans of the original that are going to be upset if that game does not see the light of day.

That's like xbox turning around and saying, we are not going to bother remastering quake.

As a huge quake fan, i would be severely disappointed. And there has not even been an announcement for it yet.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That's nonsense and you know it.

There are many fans of the original that are going to be upset if that game does not see the light of day.

That's like xbox turning around and saying, we are not going to bother remastering quake.

As a huge quake fan, i would be severely disappointed. And there has not even been an announcement for it yet.


But why would you be disappointed for something that's not even been announced lol, that just sounds like being angry for the sake of being angry.

Anyway, remember this ?



I won't be surprised if this new PD game completely disappears as well for a few years at least. Before I was expecting to see something about it this E3, but all the recent news is just making me feel like we won't be seeing it for a few years.
 
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