Negotiator101
Member
That looks like the same issue, well spotted.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
FukuDaruma
Member
Modders already fixing M$ Turn10 shit:
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Even modded doesn't look right tbh, why is it so hard to get right.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What brightness are you using for FM?Another FM (2023) vs FM7 comparison, this time on Mugello half cloudy weather.
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Because it's difficult to get lighting to match when the stock game switches to a 2D sprite for a wheel in the name of performance, even on a beefy PC.
The modded version is 3D but needs some kind of better motion blur to make it look right.
Lokaum D+
Member
damn, clouds look way better on FM7, fuck it, i would say presentation in general looks better on FM7 at least imo.Another FM (2023) vs FM7 comparison, this time on Mugello half cloudy weather.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I put (normally if the game didn't fuck it again) everything back to standard, 50 brightness and 1000 peak white brightness
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
FM (2023)vs GT7 Watkins Glen/Toyota Supra GR
This track has the least difference between both games. This is one of the best looking tracks in GT7 because it was added in a update for GT7. In Forza its one of the more average looking one, there are better looking tracks than this. They are very comparable and excel in different places over each other.
20 comparisons so i put them in spoilers
This track has the least difference between both games. This is one of the best looking tracks in GT7 because it was added in a update for GT7. In Forza its one of the more average looking one, there are better looking tracks than this. They are very comparable and excel in different places over each other.
20 comparisons so i put them in spoilers
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
$100 to play on the (real) release date. Broken game with barebones content, full of bugs, massive downgrades in ALL elements and features and always online...
Reviewers and 'Content creators' awarded with review codes from M$: "Eeer... it is a good base, a solid foundation!"
Very few people being honest about this shit:
Everything wrong with Youtubers and publishers right there ^^^^
I'm disgusted by YouTube reviews every time there's a new AAA game these days
It's why I can't stand Digital Foundry anymore despite the fact that they called out (finally)Turn 10 on the downgrade. They only do this tho when it's PC and it's only because Alex is such a PC fanboy. John and Rich are shills. Period, end of story. Never seen them do anything but tip toe around issues. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it". John Linneman
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The lighting and weather effects at Suzuka in night is just
Can't wait for the RTGI update (if thats also not a lie lol).
Beautiful.
I think you mean Forza Motorsport and not FM7 there turk.FM7 vs GT7 Watkins Glen/Toyota Supra GR
This track has the least difference between both games. This is one of the best looking tracks in GT7 because it was added in a update for GT7. In Forza its one of the more average looking one, there are better looking tracks than this. They are very comparable and excel in different places over each other.
20 comparisons so i put them in spoilers
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I think the graphics on Series X are incredibly disappointing for a next gen only Forza. I keep hoping the next big non-cross gen game will finally be that game to say that "next gen has arrived" and what better game to do that than a new Forza, ya know?
I think GamePass is to blame and I think this can be applied to all MS games going forward. "Why should we go to extremes to make a truly next gen looking game when most players aren't spending $70 for it? We have to make GP profitable so our budget can't be too high now".
So these games on console are coming in way below the bar we had in previous generations. On PC it's not so bad because of brute force power. Though PC does have to deal with poor optomization.
I think GamePass is to blame and I think this can be applied to all MS games going forward. "Why should we go to extremes to make a truly next gen looking game when most players aren't spending $70 for it? We have to make GP profitable so our budget can't be too high now".
So these games on console are coming in way below the bar we had in previous generations. On PC it's not so bad because of brute force power. Though PC does have to deal with poor optomization.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Oeps. Done soo many comparisons this week that im making errors lol.
Hoddi
Member
People just need to accept that these consoles aren't that powerful. Especially not at 4k.
Racing games should be the absolute best showcases for SSDs because they literally are the 'fast travel' that most of the original fluff was about. And Forza happens to be fairly disk intensive for that matter. It just doesn't have much to show for it.
I still think it looks okay except for the shoddy TAA. But there's nothing remotely 'next-gen' about it. It's just okay.
Sebmugi
Member
Artificial lights such as street lamps, etc. are rather well rendered, but at night the reflections on the road in SSR in rainy weather are still very grayish and once again not at all natural..
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Its because of the rain fog and mist thats causing those grayish reflections which is normal in SSR because its also reflecting the mist/fog. When you select other rain options without the mist and fog than they look fine. The only thing that bugs me is the wipers been reflected on the road.
Sebmugi
Member
Yep I would say also that this comes from the fact that, as soon as there are no large lit structures to reflect on the road, things get better in terms of rendering ^^ and for me too, the interior view in the rain, personally I can't get past the windshield wiper bug with the SSR and it ruins everything else for me.. :/ and I don't really see how they can remedy this problem..
yet a game like Driveclub which uses this reflection technique a lot, has no problem with the interior view..
2/3 shots and its memory <3
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
FM (2023)vs GT7 Watkins Glen/Toyota Supra GR
This track has the least difference between both games. This is one of the best looking tracks in GT7 because it was added in a update for GT7. In Forza its one of the more average looking one, there are better looking tracks than this. They are very comparable and excel in different places over each other.
20 comparisons so i put them in spoilers
Thanks for the picks,
Turk1993
. As amazing as your comparisons are, they don't tell the whole story. One of the most impressive aspects of FM is how these new 3D trees react to lighting. You can be riding down the track that's covered in shadow and see sun breaking through the clouds and realistically shining on trees far in the background. That dynamic nature to lighting and how conditions on track are changing lap to lap are IMO the most impressive thing about new Forza.Regardless of his tastes, preferences and subjectivity,Thanks for the picks,
Turk1993
is the only one offering honest and close 1:1 comparisons. The only one commenting and arguing with proper visual evidences and facts.
Unfortunately, then you have people arguing based on comparisons of Twitter trolls, distorting and doing everything possible to put the competition's hated plastic box game in a bad light.
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It is true that you show one of the worst cases, but It is the most questionable point of FM since always and one of the reasons why a certain inconsistency is always attributed to it.A mono Mx5 race of 10 participants on XSX in quality mode
player car
AI car
It is incomprehensible that during photo mode or when you change cars in replays it does not activate better Lods for the AI cars. Something that GT7 does, which knows how to hide shortcomings and weak points much better.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
He's a GAF treasure, that's for sure.
I just fired up my PS5 for the first time since GOW: Ragnarök release. After updating my controller, system software, controller again, rebuilding database (whatever that means) and installing newest patch for GT7, I was able to play it.
My thoughts: presentation/menus are excellent, very elegant and classy. It's leagues above Forza that has been using bloody rectangles since Horizon 2. Car paint and in general game's color grading also is far superior. Game looks amazing when closing in on details in photo mode, mouth watering stuff.
But.
When you're just playing and driving around the track (in my case it was Suzuka), game feels rather flat and empty, like you're driving around a fake version of the real thing made of cardboard cut-outs. It's weird. I think new Motorsport shines in this area. When you're just driving down the track with all the fog/volumetric effects, dynamic lighting, 3D trees properly lit and all the extra details put on the side of the track, game looks seriously impressive.
It has always been the weak point of FM compared to GT, the time dedicated to the presentation. It is not a neat game outside of the race gameplay and that is where the reasons to blame its certain inconsistency grow.
They have not yet understood the importance of offering carefully crafted replays to "sell" the visual qualities of their game. Things like not knowing how to hide LODs in photo mode. Very simplistic menus and lack of atmosphere.....
That is to say, the gameplay during the race is certainly the most important thing, but the presentation is also a % important and in that T10 continues to be handicapped.
For a game that will be updated for years, I hope T10 spends time improving that aspect of the presentation and replays and not just focus on adding new tracks and cars.
Senua
Gold Member
FM3 and especially 4 were presented beautifully, not as classy as GT but they were so slick and clean.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Yep. One more thing. Today I also installed FM7 on my PC and dare I say it, menu / presentation is better there than the new game. I don't understand how they fail to understand the importance of it.
Sebmugi
Member
yes you are probably right, it's fair to say that a game has been remade from scratch and still seeing the same faults is a bit taking people for imbeciles.. and seeing that again on an XSX in 2023 it's no...
Sry it comes a bit like that but I was talking about it on another forum and I shared it here too at the same time..
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Certainly there is a lot in FM8 done from Scratch (physics is very different, damage, race rules, lighting, RT, GI, 3D crowd, 3D trees, weather, tuning...) but ultimately the same engine and certain things will continue to be reflected. And one of those things is vehicle modeling. It is clearly seen that 70% are recycled models even in their different Lods and this can be seen in screenshots like the one you have provided. There is a lot of difference in quality with those recently created vehicles and you can see that in the same race. A race with recently launched cars is another visual level compared to, for example, a 2000 Ford Focus or Evo X race.yes you are probably right, it's fair to say that a game has been remade from scratch and still seeing the same faults is a bit taking people for imbeciles.. and seeing that again on an XSX in 2023 it's no...
Sry it comes a bit like that but I was talking about it on another forum and I shared it here too at the same time..
In principle recycling could be understandable, but as I said, what is not understood is the lack of intensive work in trying to hide from the player's eye those weak points and Lods in moments such as replays and photo mode where you have enough margin to make the work in the visual section of your game shine.
It is even more shocking when you see the gameplay introduction scenes or trailers where you see presentation work that is not present in the replays.
There are a camera shots (like the ceiling one) that are perfect for broadcast replay mode and are not used...
It is true that they have increased the number of AIs during the race by 50% and the use of Lods becomes even more logical, but that is not a reason to not do anything to try to "hide" them and make perfect the game presentation.
PD does it in a formidable way in GT and that earns it points in visual consistency in the eyes of the normal user even if the user with a magnifying glass is able to see that these optimizations and use of Lods are also a reality in the Sony game .
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Underneath all the bullshit and bugs there is something special about this game imo. If only someone had the balls to delay it until Feb/March 24.
BigLee74
Member
yes you are probably right, it's fair to say that a game has been remade from scratch and still seeing the same faults is a bit taking people for imbeciles.. and seeing that again on an XSX in 2023 it's no...
Sry it comes a bit like that but I was talking about it on another forum and I shared it here too at the same time..
I agree. I can’t understand why Turn 10 don’t ramp everything up to ‘full’ for photo mode (I guess their engine just doesn’t allow for the easy swap). This is photo mode, designed to show off your game to its best. Unfortunately, it’s implementation means it is just a tool easily abused to make awful comparison shots.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
If Forza truly was from the ground up, things like this would have been prioritised I’m sure!
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
No worries man, i love discussing graphics with people. As long as they are not trolling or posting twitter fanboy stuff i have zero problems with that. I can also make mistakes, if people can show me that im wrong im happy to learn from it. I learned here stuff from different posters about different games that i didn't know before. So healty discussions are always nice to have. And i made some friends in this thread that i have argued beforeBan all idiots that post obvious troll comparisons posted on twitter by fanboys with agendas, otherwise I fear
Seriously, most of these comparisons are just dragging this thread down.
.
Senua
Gold Member
One thing I noticed is sometime the lighting/reflection on wheels just look terrible in Forza Motorsport, way worse than the body, I feel Forza has always struggled with lighting wheels correctly, especially in home space and the painting/customisation screen. What do you think?No worries man, i love discussing graphics with people. As long as they are not trolling or posting twitter fanboy stuff i have zero problems with that. I can also make mistakes, if people can show me that im wrong im happy to learn from it. I learned here stuff from different posters about different games that i didn't know before. So healty discussions are always nice to have. And i made some friends in this thread that i have argued before
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Not only in garage, on track some silver wheels look white at night. In FM7 it was not like this, they where perfect. I think its the RT thats messing it up and makes it lighter. Because the same happens o´ the lower part of the car body on some car where the rt reflection of the road are brighter than the car body itself. I will post a example later.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
In almost all Forza images you can see cardboard trees in the background. I see none in GT. They don't look as detailed upclose but they don't look as bad when they're distant. Also the LOD for the grass in Forza is like 10 feet from the camera. It goes much further in GT. One thing that's weird in GT is that the crowd in that photo is completely in the shadow there which I don't think makes sense considering where the sun (apparently) isFM (2023)vs GT7 Watkins Glen/Toyota Supra GR
This track has the least difference between both games. This is one of the best looking tracks in GT7 because it was added in a update for GT7. In Forza its one of the more average looking one, there are better looking tracks than this. They are very comparable and excel in different places over each other.
20 comparisons so i put them in spoilers
Senua
Gold Member
Another thing that annoys me in FM is now the XJ220s carbon diffuser is now painted when you change the colour of the car, this never happened in any previous Forza games. But hey, at least the wheel nuts are silver again and not black! First time since Forza Horizon 2! (when this remodelled XJ220 was introduced to the series)
rofif
Banned
strange because FH4 and 5 have best wheels I've ever seen.
So round and good motion blur
alucard0712_rus
Member
Sorry, maybe wrong thread but I have to say...
I don't know why it's so hard for many. PD was magicians even in PS1 era. There was nothing close to GT on PS2. With PS3 they did PBR materials, real-time lighting, weather and volumetric smoke with shadows. They have 25+ years of experience and it's still the same team but even more experienced...They also was always crazy serious about photography and always passionate, ambitious.
How do possibly a game made from 'ground up' with new director even compete with this super talented and experienced Japanese team with passionate director (who also have excellent taste in music and ALSO a good racing driver).
I mean you can't compete Gran Turismo, objectively. They know what they doing. Only way is do your own racing game that you believe and make it as good as possible.
I just want that Forza devs will focus on what they want the game to be, what they want to deliver as a game. And quality>quantity. It's much more fun to drive 5 very detailed, responsive cars than 25 same cars.
I don't know why it's so hard for many. PD was magicians even in PS1 era. There was nothing close to GT on PS2. With PS3 they did PBR materials, real-time lighting, weather and volumetric smoke with shadows. They have 25+ years of experience and it's still the same team but even more experienced...They also was always crazy serious about photography and always passionate, ambitious.
How do possibly a game made from 'ground up' with new director even compete with this super talented and experienced Japanese team with passionate director (who also have excellent taste in music and ALSO a good racing driver).
I mean you can't compete Gran Turismo, objectively. They know what they doing. Only way is do your own racing game that you believe and make it as good as possible.
I just want that Forza devs will focus on what they want the game to be, what they want to deliver as a game. And quality>quantity. It's much more fun to drive 5 very detailed, responsive cars than 25 same cars.
FukuDaruma
Member
PD and Kaz have *a lot* that can be criticized too. Just an example: 7 iterations and 5 gens later, Gran Turismo still doesn't have a proper cockpit cam or options to remove the wheel and drivers arms from the driver's cam for people that play the game using a steering wheel instead of a gamepad. So much for "The real driving simulator".
For what it was, the first racing title from that studio, Driveclub was a lot better than Gran Turismo in many aspects. Despite its limitations it looked more realistic and the sense of speed was much better. Not to mention the weather effects, which even a generation later on PS5 GT7 pales in comparision.
ONE fucking guy at home did this:
The fact that BIG studios with *hundreds* of employees and budgets in the *hundreds of millions* can't get even close is inexcusable. Just pathetic.
They aren't even smart enough to just buy/license Ilja Yusupov's rain tech.
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Neo_game
Member
For GT7 they did an average job IMO but Forza some how is making it relevant now. So I would say both are big disappointment, Forza more though because of this reboot and from ground up BS where as GT7 is nothing more than a little upgrade over GTS.
This was more than 6yrs ago.
This was more than 6yrs ago.
nosoynadie22
Gold Member
Senua
Gold Member
Motion blur in cockpit view!?FM Gameplay XSX quality mode
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I actually thought the images looked pretty good... Until I opened up the images on my phone. What the fuck?? And that's the 30 fps mode??FM Gameplay XSX quality mode
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The fast travel and map system in the Crew is more next gen than anything in Forza and GT7.
Timestamped:
Its insane how quick and seamless it is. Its even better than Spiderman 2.
Timestamped:
Its insane how quick and seamless it is. Its even better than Spiderman 2.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Its nicely animated but it roughly the same speed as Horizon 5. On pc with a faster ssd its even faster.