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How powerful was the GameCube compared to the PS2 and XBOX ?

How important is raw power of a console if the Devkit isn't good or we have lots of devs throwing new techniques at it to see what performs best. The ps2 got some great graphics at the end of its life because dev's were efficient with what they had.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
There were like 4-5 games that had a 1080i mode on PS2 (was it even real 1080i?)
And one or two games with true discrete surround sound during gameplay.

Xbox had dozens of titles in 720p and surround.

Makes me wish I had owned an Xbox. Only system I skipped.
Hell, I can buy one now I suppose.
 

Tain

Member
I know that PS2 has some games that output 720p/1080i signals, but do those games internally render at those resolutions? I've seen God of War and GT4 in their high-def modes, and they definitely looked upscaled.

As said, the Xbox had a handful of games that rendered at greater than 480p resolutions internally.
 

CTE

Member
Bought Chaos Theory on Xbox Originals last week for my 360. Holy Shit!!!! This game still looks great.
 

Lunchbox

Banned
chaos theory looks better than alot of current gen games. man was that game ahead of the pack

re4, chaos theory and ninja gaiden black are what ill remeber from that gen as jaw dropping moments
 

tinfoil

Neo Member
PS2 1080i is just upscaled I think.

There was a ps2 homebrew program that upscaled ps2 games to 1080i/720p. Quite a bit of ps2 games could be played in 720p using the homebrew program "GS mode selector". Alot of ps2 developers weren't using all of the ps2's vram which is weird.

Example of ps2 in 720p using front mission 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uusbkaKR54
 

godnorazi

Banned
You have terrible opinions.

you have a terrible TV if you dont think SMG and Zelda would look orders of magnitudes greater on a PS3 or 360.. just check the dolphin thread

you have a terrible idea of what necessitates an imprecise (needs constant recalibration in skyward sword) and unneeded (pointing at stars randomly) gaming interface if you think the waggle controls are better than a traditional gamepad
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
tinfoil said:
Alot of ps2 developers weren't using all of the ps2's vram which is weird.
That couldn't be further from the truth. If anything VRam was over-allocated (multiple data-sets sharing an address through time-sharing), not leaving anything free.

"Upscaling" through CRT is done by setting the output-scanning frequencies(analog signals, so no special math required), so it carried no memory overhead - and yes the 1080i games were running something like 640x1080i (full vertical resolution but 3x upscaling horizontally).
 

tinfoil

Neo Member
That couldn't be further from the truth. If anything VRam was over-allocated (multiple data-sets sharing an address through time-sharing), not leaving anything free.

"Upscaling" through CRT is done by setting the output-scanning frequencies(analog signals, so no special math required), so it carried no memory overhead - and yes the 1080i games were running something like 640x1080i (full vertical resolution but 3x upscaling horizontally).

Really?

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f19/gs-mode-selector-development-feedback-61808/

I don't know much, but there seems to be some math involved in this homebrew upscaler, the programmer,dlanor states that 720p/1080i modes will use up more vram than 480p mode.

Could be wrong.

Anyways there's like zero pics of xbox 720p mode on the internets so:

720pxbox3.jpg


Amazingly high res! Xbox version is the best looking version. Incredibly smooth, no jaggies, looks like an emulator shot, but nope, direct capture.

Although the best models last gen was VF4 imo if only due to having a black female fighter that was muscular:

vlcsnap-717759.png
 
Conker's Bad Fur Day VS StarFox Adventures is probably a better comparison though it feels strange using two games that started off as N64 games as technical showcases for the Xbox & GameCube but Rare were really good when it came to getting the most out of hardware. Worth noting that StarFox Adventures actually ran at double the framerate and had widescreen support even though Conker came out after it.
Conker had a simple but effective realtime GI approximation.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
That Nintendo also went with 1.35 GB discs, so I'm not so sure you'd want that.

When your main competition was Sega with 1.2 GB Custom Discs, and the bulk of PS2 games making use of CDs, the choice didn't look too bad. Sega dropping out and Microsoft coming in shook up the table though, making Nintendo go from mid road to bottom.
 

Celine

Member
With the exception of Super Mario Galaxy, there's nothing on Wii that can compare to the greatness of Resident Evil 4, Wind Waker and the Rogue Squadron series.
I disagree.

MP3 is still one of the best looking game on the system in my eyes.
Shin'en (FAST/Jett Rocket) despite Wiiware restriction used most of the TEV tricks.
Resident Evil The Dark Side Chronicles is great looking too although on rail, and 007 Golden Eye has some really pretty level ( and some slowdown).
Final Fantasy The Crystal Bearer sports some great visual, too bad the game isn't much engaging.
 

Soul_Pie

Member
I always felt like the gamecube was undersold in terms of the actual hardware, deceptively powerful. The xbox probably had it over the Gamecube; Conker, Chaos Theory, Rally Sport Challenge 2 etc were all mind blowingly good looking, but Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, Star Fox, etc were beautiful as well and with minimal loading times. I felt like both these consoles still had a lot to give before they were replaced.

I always felt Gamecube was the best "feeling" hardware of the last gen. The thing was so well put together it was incredible, it was unbreakable, I remember my mum cracking it with me one day and throwing it onto the hard tiled floor, didn't get a scratch on it. Plus I loved the mini discs, so cool, compact and hardy.
 

FreeMufasa

Junior Member
When I was young I always thought Dreamcast and PS2 were a gen and Gamecube and Xbox were the next gen. After I went from DC to GC, it used to piss me off hearing people say "Yeah i'm gonna get a PS2". I used to think why are you getting a last gen machine?
 

Mario007

Member
How was it that PS2 actually won last gen? Was it the dev friendliness of the system or what?

I remember I got a ps2 cause i had a psone and really i didn't even hear of gamecube or xbox at that stage, which was in 2004. (i was like 13 back then)
 

Celine

Member
How was it that PS2 actually won last gen? Was it the dev friendliness of the system or what?

I remember I got a ps2 cause i had a psone and really i didn't even hear of gamecube or xbox at that stage, which was in 2004. (i was like 13 back then)
lolololololol

Correct answer:
$$$$$$$$

Right question would be why publishers were making more money on PS2 ecosystem than Xbox or GC. DC died even before the releases of those two platforms.
 

Mario007

Member
lolololololol

Correct answer:
$$$$$$$$

Right question would be why publishers were making more money on PS2 ecosystem than Xbox or GC. DC died even before the releases of those two platforms.

yeah but why were they making more money on ps2? what caused this.
 

dc89

Member
Chaos Theory in Xbox looked amazing. I remember playing the game for the first time and I was like OMFG!

I'm pretty sure the first level was like one huge tech demo, because it showed off just about everything they achieved. Great textures, amazing lighting, weather effects on character models, interacting with the environment etc.

The game is awesome.

1105739961.jpg
 
The system's X86 proccessor is incredibly complicated compared to it's comtempories plus publically available documentation is rare.

No its not...it is basically a 733mhz Intel Celeron, with a few tweaks here and there, but still a straight x86 instruction set.

Should be a piece of piss to emulate compared to a Dreamcast,PS2 & Gamecube.

It's 90% apathy by the Emulator coder community that's stopping there being an accurate Xbox emulator in 2012, rather than difficulty of actually doing it.

Lol, just in case someone decides to try and crack it, i keep an ISO of Jet Set Radio Future on my hard drive to this day...i continue to live in hope...tyhe thought of being able to run JSRF @ 1080p makes me giddy.
 

Celine

Member
yeah but why were they making more money on ps2? what caused this.
Basically publishers/media/consumers expectation coming from huge upset that was PS1 and the fact that when MS and Nintendo (the only real competitors) launched their platform it was too late (and both had some glaring mistakes).
Support was heavily behind PS2, just think how most multiplatform releases had PS2 as the main SKU.

PS2 had from the beginning huge sales because it was PS1 successor and when GC or Xbox came out key software like FFX, MGS2 and GTA were released on Sony console.

It was an avalanche that never looked behind, except for a brief point in time...

BTW:
Initially developers bitched about how unfriendly was coding for PS2 but since their food was there, they adapted.
 

Mario007

Member
Basically publishers/media/consumers expectation coming from huge upset that was PS1 and the fact that when MS and Nintendo (the only real competitors) launched their platform it was too late (and both had some glaring mistakes).
Support was heavily behind PS2, just think how most multiplatform releases had PS2 as the main SKU.

PS2 had from the beginning huge sales because it was PS1 successor and when GC or Xbox came out key software like FFX, MGS2 and GTA were released on Sony console.

It was an avalanche that never looked behind, except for a brief point in time...

BTW:
Initially developers bitched about how unfriendly was coding for PS2 but since their food was there, they adapted.

Oh right so sort of like ps3 and xbox360 this gen. Xbox360 coming first stole ps3's thunder and that's what ps2 did to the original xbox and gamecube.

Cool, so basically ps2 was just like ps3 only it came first and was affordable at launch?
 

frostbyte

Member
Basically publishers/media/consumers expectation coming from huge upset that was PS1 and the fact that when MS and Nintendo (the only real competitors) launched their platform it was too late (and both had some glaring mistakes).
Support was heavily behind PS2, just think how most multiplatform releases had PS2 as the main SKU.

PS2 had from the beginning huge sales because it was PS1 successor and when GC or Xbox came out key software like FFX, MGS2 and GTA were released on Sony console.

It was an avalanche that never looked behind, except for a brief point in time...

BTW:
Initially developers bitched about how unfriendly was coding for PS2 but since their food was there, they adapted.

Makes me curious if the Wii U is going to end up the same or be given the cold shoulder by devs since it's Nintendo.

Btw, any article on devs bitching about how unfriendly coding was for on the PS2?
 

zoukka

Member
So was there ever a Xbox game that was better looking that Rebel Strike/Rogue Squadron in the same genre?

I'd say they were the kings of the genre.

F-Zero GX was the king of its genre.
Wind Waker too.
FF:CC also.
Mario Sunshine.
Resident Evil 4...

Goddamn the gamecube was a beast.
 
Xbox was definitely the most powerful but I'll be damned if REmake and RE4 are not the best looking games of last generation. It might not be as "technically" impressive with polys as something like Ninja Gaiden or Conkers but to me the RE games of last generation looked so much better to me.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
tinfoil said:
I don't know much, but there seems to be some math involved in this homebrew upscaler, the programmer,dlanor states that 720p/1080i modes will use up more vram than 480p mode.
I meant math as "computing resource" - the tool he developed does exactly what I said, playing around with CRT register settings, so there's no actual upscaling (through a GPU) going on.
The thread is way too big for me to scour it for how he arrived to the idea that games aren't using VRam fully (and there's no way they aren't - on PS2 generation memory was still far too scarce to just "forget" about using it, and I'm not just talking about VRam).
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
He's right though.
Games like DOOM 3, Chronicles of Riddick, Conker, Chaos Theory etc. look better than anything on the Wii.


Sadly none of those can kill rouge squadron which I and others have pointed out in various debates. I hate when I see conker put up the games levels were so small anyone can make a great looking game with how rare set that up. Also the discussion is about GC not Wii which had worse developer support despite essentially being a beefed up GC. Can't really exceed an xbox game especially CT which had major ubisoft support when same said company won't use a team of that quality to build a Wii/GC game.

REremake can't be used since it's not all realtime and was far more tricks than anything. RE4 comes up close but its texturing and shadowing in some instances can't touch CT. Beyond3d has plenty of tech debates on the system which explain why despite teh fact the power difference were clear between all 3 seeing there best exclusives run on any of the other console 1to1 would be an issue.

Also the idea PS2 can touch a cube is offensive. Anyone studying RE4 ports should know capcom had to gut a decent bit of stuff out of it just to make it work. Cube and Xbox were neglected. Xbox didn't have enough time to demonstrate it was a pc and most devs never bothered to take advantage of the simplicity of the cube and what it did.

Fafalada nice to see you around surprised you're not chipping in on the discussion considering what you wrote on beyond3d various times on the subject.
 

mclem

Member
You believed the hype.

One thing that *is* true is that the PS2 had a phenomenal fillrate; far superior to the other platforms, to the extent that (for instance) there was no point doing back-face culling on polygons, it'd net little to no reward.

It was weaker in pretty much every *other* respect, but that one did open the doors to some effects that would punish the other platforms a little more. I always had to be a lot more wary with layered smoke effects on the Xbox than my coworker did on the PS2.
 
I'd also say Pikmin 2 was a technical monsta

sometimes I miss when Nintendo used to bet on horsepower, something i hope will be back with the U
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
One thing that *is* true is that the PS2 had a phenomenal fillrate; far superior to the other platforms, to the extent that (for instance) there was no point doing back-face culling on polygons, it'd net little to no reward.

It was weaker in pretty much every (other* respect, but that one did open the doors to some effects that would punish the other platforms a little more. I always had to be a lot more wary with layered smoke effects on the Xbox than my coworker did on the PS2.


That fillrate also dropped off quite a bit as you made games more advanced. The effects you are in mentioning are in particles which certain PS2 games totally trounce xbox counter parts in those departments. I will give you that but it wasn't so cut and dry.

GC was not a horespower machine it was extremely well designed in many ways until nintendo gutted the ram and downclocked the overall speed of the system.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
mclem said:
to the extent that (for instance) there was no point doing back-face culling on polygons, it'd net little to no reward.
This was true in some common scenarios (small polys, simple shading, small textures), but not necessarily others(trilinear, large polys, large textures, complex vertex shading). PS2 was also the only machine where you could save on vertex-speed by bf culling.

I always had to be a lot more wary with layered smoke effects on the Xbox than my coworker did on the PS2.
It was also by far the most powerful(and flexible) stencil-shadow rendering hw of its generation - ironic considering it didn't even have a stencil buffer :p

LCGeek said:
Fafalada nice to see you around surprised you're not chipping in on the discussion considering what you wrote on beyond3d various times on the subject.
It feels kinda like walking into a bar you used to frequent in school and haven't seen for decades... ;)
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I would have loved to see Riddick on PS2. It sounds as if they managed to deliver visuals reasonably close to the XBOX version using a lot of programming tricks. How close they got we may never know, but it would have been fascinating.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
dark10x said:
I would have loved to see Riddick on PS2.
Take a look at Echo-night beyond if you can find it. It's an interesting example of an obviously low-budget production that still pulled off very impressive results with a Doom3-ish visual-style (right down the shadow-casting flashlight).

Anyway if the game could sacrifice a bit of scene complexity, you could get something alot like SM3.x on PS2 via deferred shading. Not sure if it would be a worthy tradeoff on SDTV resolutions though.
 
So was there ever a Xbox game that was better looking that Rebel Strike/Rogue Squadron in the same genre?

There weren't that many games in the same genre to begin with. I don't know if it was better looking, but Yager was gorgeous and a good game to boot.


Graphically-wise, this is the best moment from last gen imo.
Simply amazing.

I wouldn't go that far. For instance, this game still blows my mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQ_3zK-QEY

EDIT: I know this is an off-screen recording of the game emulated on Xbox 360, but still, it's crazy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl0QN3kPzZI
 
What is XBOX1 with "can't see shit" graphics ?

Conker, panzer dragon, jet set radio, that vodoo game ... all awesome stuff.

But then you have these and Riddick ... was "insanely dark" the "so much brown" from that gen ? =P

Otogi and Rallisport Challenge 2 weren't really dark most of the time, and the other two were stealth games (or had strong stealth elements, in Riddick's case). All of them looked amazing, though.
 
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