GameplayWhore
Member
Oh, hey, is NPD tomorrow? We'll get to see if the "third place Xenoblade" report was correct then.
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Reggie gonna eat some crow!
That's basically what a lot of Japanese developers did. A lot of them decided they couldn't afford to go big on the HD twins, and stayed conservative and relatively niche on the Wii. As a result the system become a little bit of a sanctuary for middle-class retail games on consoles.
They are already moneyhatting for exclusives.
Look at Monster Hunter 3G at 3DS for example.
Also, I'm pretty sure Nintendo threw money at Square Enix for Dragon Quest X on Wii U due to DQ's popularity in Japan.
Nintendo will moneyhat for 3rd exclusives. The problem is they might be too cheap to moneyhat for the third party exclusives that western gamers really want.
They do and don't at the same time. What EA, Activision, and Ubisoft were trying to do was drown out competition by raising the stakes so damn high that only they could perform at that level. Only problem is, they got caught into this whirlpool that kept pulling them further in. In essence, they polarized the market too much. Activision has done well due to its genre kings, but EA has especially taken hits. Ubisoft is actually intelligent enough to have created titles for handhelds, the Wii, and otherwise, which gave them a bit more flexibility from a costs perspective.
Basically, I want publishers to make smart decisions. E3 will be a good test for seeing which ones 'get it' and which ones don't, because Mickey Mouse excuses about 'the controller is too different' and such are not going to appease investors forever - especially if the Wii U hits big.
I was about to say that I hope they moneyhat or team up with western devs but I see you got that covered haha.
I'm pretty sure we'll see a few good Japanese exclusives, but I'm not too sure about western.
Father_Brain
Banned
I think that this line of thinking greatly exaggerates the degree of overlap between the Mario/Metroid/Zelda audience and the CoD/GTA audience; while not a perfect comparison, the performance of multiplatform titles on GC supports my point.
If Nintendo is at all serious about making a major play for the current HD core market, I'd say they would be making a huge mistake by assuming that established first-party IP will do that much to sell the system to that market.
The PS2 kind of invalidates that entire generation from my perspective when it comes to seeking out sales data. It was like this black hole that appeared and sort of sucked the life out of everything else available.
Their 1st party titles won't work. All they need to show is that gamers can get their 1st party titles and a healthy coverage of 3rd party titles. There may not be a huge amount of overlap, but I also don't think that is the end of the equation for determining which console gets purchased and which doesn't. If Nintendo can get the same games from 3rd parties that MS and Sony get, that's a huge win for them.
UncleSporky
Member
Probably not unless it leaks, right? Because of the way NPD's reported now?
Which I guess it will probably leak.
Father_Brain
Banned
And if Xbox multiplatform titles hadn't sold consistently better than on GC, I'd agree with you completely. But they did.
I know it's been a year since I started having this argument with you, but the fact is that Wii U is launching seven years after 360 and six years after PS3. The overwhelming majority of the potential audience for HD multiplatform titles already owns another platform that can play them, which means that Nintendo will need significant exclusive content specifically aimed at that audience in order to sell the system to them.
And Ubisoft seem to be continuing this trend by going all-in with Wii U support, even going as far as to create an exclusive game built around its functionality.
I'm imagining Konami investors (and execs, for that matter) wondering why the hell they're funding a Vita version of Project Ogre but not a Wii U version.
Indeed, and yet I think it's going to take a hell of a lot for Nintendo to reconsider their level of dependence on their stable of established IP. Even if they throw a lot of money at a core-focused new IP from Retro, I think their Wii U output will ultimately lean too heavily on the franchises that pushed the DS and Wii.
I'm talking versus PS4 and 720, not the 360 and PS3. I mean, yeah... games from the remainder of this generation is nice, but they need to get the same games from the coming generation as well on the damn thing.
EDIT: What I'm stating is that gamers have families. Those families may want Nintendo games, while the primary gamer wants 3rd party titles. This will likely factor into decisions made about what console to purchase and what not to. Nintendo having time to themselves with the Wii U on the market is potentially very helpful for bringing that decision about.
Most of the time it shouldn't be too complicated. If you're drawing gestures in TV mode, you can still draw gestures on portable mode over the action. Just depends on how well they compensate for it. Most of the games I think are just going to have to have an alternate inventory management system as that's what it will mostly be used for (as suggested, press start, select, - or whatever to bring up a traditional menu in portable mode).
One thing I just thought of that's kind of a bummer though is there are a handful of games that could make great use of the tablet on a vertical setting... Shooters like Ikaruga or the recently announced Pinball game. The problem? There's no way to really control it using that method. Well, maybe with a stand and a Wii remote, but that's a pretty messy set up.
shadyspace
Banned
So when will we know that Wii U will indeed run UE4 or not? It's not like they're going to announce that at their press conference.
By the time those come out people would rather jump on those consoles rather than Wii U. Nintendo needs to do whatever they can to make sure those people jump onto the Wii U first. Like everyone else was saying, first party and ports aren't going to cut it.
We'll have to hear it from Epic themselves or even see something running on UE4, on the Wii U, at E3.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think it could happen by way of tech demo or one of the epic people coming out. Or it could be at the roundtable afterward. So yeah I'd say right now best guess is E3.
Slightly off topic, but since Wii U is backwards comptaible, if you guys want to add any Wii games to your backlog then definately buy Sin and Punishment: Star Successor at BestBuy.com today. $5 + Free shipping.
Also good for Club Nintendo points. 50 Club Nintendo points for Wii games.
Also good for Club Nintendo points. 50 Club Nintendo points for Wii games.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
We get a top 10 list no matter what, so we should know.
UncleSporky
Member
Why not? Everyone seems to think this conference will be surprising, and that'd be one way. Get the man himself on stage to announce it and show a new demo.
Did we ever find out who made the bird demo, even?
Actually I'm thinking of all the ways this could still turn out to be bad news. WiiU supports UE4! PS4 and 720 announced at next E3, supporting the all new UE5, with which WiiU is incompatible!
I'm not disagreeing that Nintendo needs to get people to jump onboard fast. What I'm saying is that placing gamers within a vacuum and pretending there are no other factors to their purchasing decisions is crazy. If there is a game that would appeal to your family on the Wii U, your potential for purchasing it goes up; if 3rd parties appear to be pursuing Wii U development meaningfully, both with games from this generation and the next, then your purchase potential goes up that much higher.
The vast majority of customers may only have one console, but that's not true of gamers - and especially not of GAF members.
So let's not put everything about purchases into a nice, little box.
Im stilling waiting to read some speculations what Nintendo would have had to do
to run UE4? Im trying to gage how far off their original target was for the system.
Was it simply a matter of adding extra ram? Some small tweaks? Or did they have to go with plan b, and start from scratch?
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to run UE4? Im trying to gage how far off their original target was for the system.
Was it simply a matter of adding extra ram? Some small tweaks? Or did they have to go with plan b, and start from scratch?
.
AceBandage
Banned
some games simply cannot get into the "full portable mode", just like the hide & seek demo, to be obvious
Seems like they placed gamers into a vacuum and blasted it off into space with the Wii. No one here is saying they need to disregard the other factors, but rather focus on everything they missed with the Wii. They don't want to same to happen with the Wii U, which is why they need a variety of content and exclusives.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
link, because that's not what rumours seem to be pointing at...
We still get the top 10.
UncleSporky
Member
I was thinking of it the wrong way, how they group games together now. That would actually make Xenoblade appear higher on the list if #1 and #2 are the same game. Never mind me.
EatChildren
Father_Brain
Banned
I totally get your point - Nintendo should be trying to make Wii U something akin to the PS2 of next gen. The challenge with that is that PS2 (and even DC before it) launched at a point where console budgets were low enough that exclusives were still broadly viable. That's no longer the case, so while Wii U will undoubtedly get at least a smattering of exclusives, most third parties will treat the platform for at least its first year as just a third current-gen HD console, not one that exists as part of a different generation.
It's way too early to predict how well Wii U will transition from the current HD ecosystem to the PS4/Xbox 3 one, but I do think that for the platform to have solid third-party support come 2015 or 2016, Nintendo will need to make an incredibly aggressive push aimed at current PS3/360 owners in the system's first year, in order to convince at least a decent minority of them that the platform is a viable upgrade path. I'm not convinced that they're capable of that, but I'm open to being proven wrong if the E3 showing is strong enough.
EatChildren first needs to be verified by a mod before you can trust him
As far as the whole third-party conversation goes: I have the sense that there will always be something holding Nintendo back in terms of third-party support, both of Nintendo's own doing and third parties'. Even if Nintendo caught-up with the other two spec-wise and feature-wise (and I question their ability/willingness to do some of these things), I suspect that something else would pop-up to justify skipping the Nintendo console. You'd see developers, publishers, media members, and forum-goers parroting the reason du jour. Very predictable.
Good thing is, I've long made peace with this.
This is going to continue until there is a fundamental-to-the-core change in the industry. An earthquake, if you will.
If this is true: excellent. This pleases me greatly. I like seeing Sony shoot for the moon.
Good thing is, I've long made peace with this.
This is going to continue until there is a fundamental-to-the-core change in the industry. An earthquake, if you will.
Oh my.
If this is true: excellent. This pleases me greatly. I like seeing Sony shoot for the moon.
He's a mod, he can verify himself by looking at a mirror =P
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Can someone link me, where did he say this. I must be missing something.
Same here. Might be a false alarm. :/
-Pyromaniac-
Member
BG who said he factually knows the target specs for the PS4 already laid them out and they are a good leap, but not hugely far off from the wiiU.
In this thread I don't see EC mentioning the PS4...
In this thread I don't see EC mentioning the PS4...
Bg said this about ps4 as well. He pretty much said that Sony has found a way to make a relatively powerful console at a not too expensive price.
By the way, welcome back BY2K. I saw you watching Netflix on the 3DS and laughed yesterday wondering when you'd return.
Oh and regarding this whole Wii U supporting UE4 conundrum, has BlackNMild2k1 ever spread rumors in the past? Have they been right?
By the way, welcome back BY2K. I saw you watching Netflix on the 3DS and laughed yesterday wondering when you'd return.
Oh and regarding this whole Wii U supporting UE4 conundrum, has BlackNMild2k1 ever spread rumors in the past? Have they been right?
I remember those comments.. but I never associated those with a "monster" console.
The specs I last saw while suggesting something of a beast, are pretty good on the sliding scale of high performance:bleeding edge. Did something change since bg and I talk about it?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yeah the BG target specs noted a generational leap over the current gen, but only 1.5-2x better than the wiiU in general terms, it looked like. So plenty better than the wiiU but still the same ballpark, whereas this gen it was a different sport
BG come in and correct, naoo.
GameplayWhore
Member
To Sony, a $500+ initial per-unit cost of reproduction is probably "not too expensive".
Can't they quite realize that their systems that dominated the market did so in part because they weren't amazingly expensive? PSX and PS2 both ceilinged* out at under $300. The most powerful system almost never wins the generation and usually in fact flounders badly. The only counterexample I can think of is the NES, and that's pretty debatable.
* my browser did not flag this as a misspelling. I was genuinely surprised.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I found what BG said about PS4, he posted these specs here which he said he KNOWS is the target specs for PS4: http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=33371231&postcount=60
And then he said this:
And then he said this:
There's something rather important happening in Japan right now, about the too extensive use of nearly "forced" and relying too much on chance micro-transaction in games (f2p, etc.)
Japan's Consumer Affairs Agency launched an investigation about the legality of complete gacha method (like gachapon small toys from distributors to collect) used in some games, that strongly entice players to buy many virtual items, with a lot of hazard factor, sometimes to combine them to have a rare object.
Giants in this business like Gree, DeNA, KLab, and others, were forced under this pressure from administration and the following crisis on the market (Gree's founder Tanaka lost 700 millions $ because of the stock drop as a result of the concerns about sanctions and the illegality of this model) to decide stopping this sales method from 31 may.
We know Iwata declared recently that he is against this model and want the player to have the "full experience" from what he paid, without relying on some kind of randomness, betray the consumer in a sense by not giving him what he expected.
These japanese news are an additional guarantee that there won't be abuses of heavy micro-transactions, DLC and NFC tagged products depending on hazard from Nintendo.
Japan's Consumer Affairs Agency launched an investigation about the legality of complete gacha method (like gachapon small toys from distributors to collect) used in some games, that strongly entice players to buy many virtual items, with a lot of hazard factor, sometimes to combine them to have a rare object.
Giants in this business like Gree, DeNA, KLab, and others, were forced under this pressure from administration and the following crisis on the market (Gree's founder Tanaka lost 700 millions $ because of the stock drop as a result of the concerns about sanctions and the illegality of this model) to decide stopping this sales method from 31 may.
We know Iwata declared recently that he is against this model and want the player to have the "full experience" from what he paid, without relying on some kind of randomness, betray the consumer in a sense by not giving him what he expected.
These japanese news are an additional guarantee that there won't be abuses of heavy micro-transactions, DLC and NFC tagged products depending on hazard from Nintendo.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I didn't say it was a shit insane monster console! I'm happy with the round of target specs I saw. I think they're impressive. It's right in line with the later reports of PC-esque architecture. The specs actually seemed pretty reasonable, and smart for Sony.
Not really. The rumored GPU is an underclocked 7850, which is very reasonable. The CPU rumors are even a bit modest.
Shadow Hog
Member
Eh, there were most assuredly more powerful 8-bit systems which make the NES an example - the Master System comes to mind. Better graphics (more than 3 colors per sprite, notably), but couldn't possibly hope to touch the NES in sales or brand recognition.
The SNES is probably a counter-example, though. Better audio and visuals than the Genesis (barring the larger Genesis resolution - 320x224 vs 256x224 - , but eh), and in the grand scheme of things, once the dust had settled over the 16-bit wars and everyone was diverting their attention to the 32-bit era, the SNES was ahead overall by a small margin.
Still, the rule holds for the other generations thereafter. PS1 was weaker than the N64 at 3D, but beat it, and was weaker than the Saturn at 2D, but HANDILY beat that. PS2 was weaker than the Xbox and debatably the GC, but beat both of those. The Wii is weaker than the PS3 and 360, but sold more than either overall. The Game Boy was weaker than the Game Gear, but most assuredly won that battle by several AA batteries. The DS was weaker than the PSP, but went on to be the best-selling console of all time.
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