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The Wii U Speculation Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country

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G

GCX

Member
VOOK said:
Ah right look at the site, the showcase will have media in attendance then as well. (I'm guessing here)

But yeah 6pm Tuesday, Hardware Roundtable.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's really a roundtable. It's probably a pre-recorded video of Katsuya Eguchi going through the different aspects of the hardware.
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
japtor said:
Yeah that'd be pretty awesome but way beyond what I'd expect from Nintendo. Hell a base game with expansions down the line would be surprising...that said it'd probably be really good for them, particularly since they only release one or two of a game per console. It'd make their "evergreen" titles even more evergreen.

I'd just be happy with being able to download the old SMB levels/worlds/power ups in NSMB form, like release each game's pack every few months or something (not nickel and diming a few levels at a time).
And buying New Yoshi's Island would give you new artwork for everything.

Oh and Mario Kart. I'LL PAY FOR BABY PARK ALONE! (but would prefer larger packs spread out over time)
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example of how DLC has changed the mentality of gamers.

When Double Dash released, gamers said, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to play the retro courses?" And Nintendo complied and created the Retro Cup. Now all Mario Karts come with an extra 16 tracks, nearly double the content for the same asking price.

Now, gamers say, "I'd pay more for retro courses!" And then when publishers offer this kinda stuff for paid DLC, gamers lap it up. What would you do if you were a publisher?
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Freezie KO said:
Isn't it $3 for a character and a map? And each one is designed to sucker in longtime FE fans to buy in for their favorite character. Then if you want to play the rest of this sidequest, you buy it piecemeal.

I consider the entire DLC model anti-consumer. I've explained this several times, but it's a model that actively encourages publishers to withhold content. With DLC, it's better for a publisher to release the minimal acceptable amount of content, because anything above that minimum could be sold for extra.

Now people like to say that DLC allows developers to develop content post-game. But you will never ever know if it was developed later or simply held back. Never. All you know is that the DLC model encourages developers to withhold content for financial gain. It's a model that greatly shifts power away from consumers and into publishers' hands.

You might say, "Freezie, this Fire Emblem sidequest would never even exist without DLC." But there's no way of knowing that. Getting to play as Luigi in Galaxy or 3D Land? The Green Stars in Galaxy 2? That era is over.

Wait until Nintendo gets used to the DLC model. Playing as Luigi will be paid DLC, and Green Stars will be sold by the dozen. Defenders will still say, "Well, you would've never gotten to play those without DLC," or "The full game with Mario is still there." And publishers know in a generation, nobody will remember that we got multiple costumes in Smash Bros. for no additional cost.
Click to expand...
Okay.

Bet. If the next Mario has no post-game content without DLC (as in, Bowser is beaten in a traditional Mario sense), then you win.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
Glad I skipped out on the Konami conference. They will never top their 2010 conference.

Oddduck said:
Emily Rogers posted linkedin to some Sega producers account.

https://twitter.com/#!/Emi1yRogers

Linkedin: http://tinyurl.com/6rwyprw

Current Projects:
Aliens: Colonial Marines (360/PS3/PC/Wii U)
Unannounced Title (XBLA/PSN/PC/Wii-U)
Click to expand...

I believe this has been posted in the previous thread. Bg did a lot of digging at one point...so much that he now has ninjas after him.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Freezie KO said:
This is a perfect example of how DLC has changed the mentality of gamers.

When Double Dash released, gamers said, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to play the retro courses?" And Nintendo complied and created the Retro Cup. Now all Mario Karts come with an extra 16 tracks, nearly double the content for the same asking price.

Now, gamers say, "I'd pay more for retro courses!" And then when publishers offer this kinda stuff for paid DLC, gamers lap it up. What would you do if you were a publisher?
Click to expand...
I still haven't paid for a single piece of DLC ever. I walk the walk!
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Where is the link of Mr. Geoff saying Mario Wii U will be at launch?
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Okay.

Ban bet. If the next Mario has no post-game content without DLC (as in, Bowser is beaten in a traditional Mario sense), then you win.
Click to expand...

I think it'll be incremental. We're a frog in a boiling pot. Nintendo (and all publishers) are going to gradually turn up the heat as we don't realize what we're in.

Plus, with Nintendo, the only benefit is that they drag their feet with implementation of anything online. It's been a blessing on the Wii.

It might not happen in the Wii U gen, because that relies on an external factor: Nintendo getting its shit together with a functioning online service.

But the Green Stars will be looked at in the future, and gamers will say, "Hey, I wonder how come that doesn't happen any more."

And I don't know why the defense of DLC. I've never seen a group of people so eager to voice their support for something against their own interests
since the last time I saw poor Southern Republicans.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Freezie KO said:
I think it'll be incremental. We're a frog in a boiling pot. Nintendo (and all publishers) are going to gradually turn up the heat as we don't realize what we're in.

Plus, with Nintendo, the only benefit is that they drag their feet with implementation of anything online. It's been a blessing on the Wii.

It might not happen in the Wii U gen, because that relies on an external factor: Nintendo getting its shit together with a functioning online service.

But the Green Stars will be looked at in the future, and gamers will say, "Hey, I wonder how come that doesn't happen any more."

And I don't know why the defense of DLC. I've never seen a group of people so eager to voice their support for something against their own interests
since the last time I saw poor Southern Republicans.
Click to expand...
It is not a defense of DLC.

It is a skeptical, and honestly mocking, eye toward Chicken Littling.

You can not use wording such as "This era is over" and then attempt to walk it back with "Also not this generation probably."

But I suppose "The sky is falling" is more dramatic.
 
M

MDX

Member
Nintendo Conference:

25% 3DS
05% Wii (they'll talk about new Wii channel, DQX and segway to showing the WiiU version)
70% WiiU
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
It is not a defense of DLC.

It is a skeptical, and honestly mocking, eye toward Chicken Littling.

You can not use wording such as "This era is over" and then attempt to walk it back with "Also not this generation probably."

But I suppose "The sky is falling" is more dramatic.
Click to expand...

That era is over in the sense that publishers will no longer think in terms of adding such robust post-game content without giving a looooong, hard thought to how they can charge for it. I stand by that.

I'm not going to ban bet for Nintendo's implementation though. I mean, Mario Kart 7's patch came through the eShop as a separate download. They're not technologically ready to start a huge DLC push, even if they want to.
 
M

Mr. MondayNight

Member
snowdog1971 said:
We should at the very least expect a U SKU of Pro Evo, although Pro Evo without pointer controls is a big step backwards imo. Pro Evo on the Wii is the best football video game I've ever played, and at nearly 41 years old I've played a shedload of them. The attacking options you have at your disposal are phenomenal, going back to either FIFA or Pro Evo on the PS3 and 360 feels really archaic.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way about FPS games....
don't judge me...
 
C

Caramello

Member
Freezie KO said:
I think it'll be incremental. We're a frog in a boiling pot. Nintendo (and all publishers) are going to gradually turn up the heat until we don't realize it.

Plus, with Nintendo, the only benefit is that they drag their feet with implementation of anything online. It's been a blessing on the Wii.

It might not happen in the Wii U gen, because that relies on an external factor: Nintendo getting its shit together with an functioning online service.

But the Green Stars will be looked at in the future, and gamers will say, "Hey, I wonder how come that doesn't happen any more."

And I don't know why the defense of DLC. I've never seen a group of people so eager to voice their support for something against their own interests
since the last time I saw poor Southern Republicans.
Click to expand...

Honestly, don't you remember a time when you wished there were more levels in a game? Didn't you ever think it'd be really cool to be able to buy an expansion pack whether it was a new set of levels, a new set of tracks or a new set of missions? I know I did! Yes some games do it much worse than others but there is nobody pointing a gun to your head telling you to buy games that don't give you enough content for your $60. Likewise, you can skip DLC that you don't think is worth the money.

However there are many games out there that sell DLC that is add on content that has been made after the disk has gone gold. Content that add to the experience for those who want more out of their game and are willing to pay for it. Don't attack other publishers because of the actions of those that you believe are taking advantage of their consumers. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
blu said:
It does not matter.

1. QA/debug units will also be 'final' hardware
2. Do you expect 'final' hardware to be unable to run titles off SD?
Click to expand...
The dev kits they have now won't look like Wii-U final hardware, so Nintendo wouldn't be showing it off to the press if they can help it, not when they have final hardware to work off of. What they will have at E3 will be the final boxes that customers will have in their hands, or as close to it as possible, not dev kits. Even 3DS developers didn't get dev kits that looked like just plain 3DS's until after launch (they did get a sort-of "in between" device that would only work with dev carts, but that wasn't until after the launch E3 and they still didn't look like final hardware).

And no, I don't expect final hardware to be able to run titles off of SD unless those titles were signed specifically for that system, just like the Wii. You can't download a Wiiware game onto SD card, and take that card to a friend's house, it won't work. And dev kits are the same, you burn a game directly to the dev kit hard drive, you don't burn it to an SD card and plug that in.
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
Caramello said:
Honestly, don't you remember a time when you wished there were more levels in a game? Didn't you ever think it'd be really cool to be able to buy an expansion pack whether it was a new set of levels, a new set of tracks or a new set of missions? I know I did! Yes some games do it much worse than others but there is nobody pointing a gun to your head telling you to buy games that don't give you enough content for your $60. Likewise, you can skip DLC that you don't think is worth the money.

However there are many games out there that sell DLC that is add on content that has been made after the disk has gone gold. Content that add to the experience for those who want more out of their game and are willing to pay for it. Don't attack other publishers because of the actions of those that you believe are taking advantage of their consumers. It's not as bad as you make it out to be.
Click to expand...

Of course, I remember wishing for more levels. I also haven't said, "There has never been worthwhile DLC."

But the DLC model actively encourages publishers to withhold content. That's what makes it anti-consumer. In the past, there has never been such an impetus to release the minimal acceptable amount of content. And that's an important point.

Is Mario Galaxy without Luigi worth $50? Sure, it is. Is it worth $55 with Luigi? Probably. But I got it for $50 with that extra content because there was no mechanism for the publisher to withhold the extra stuff and then sell it later.

Another thing that makes it anti-consumer is how it takes away power (information) from the consumer because the consumer will never ever know what was withheld and what was developed later.

And to return to your first point, I wanted an expansion pack for Mario Galaxy. Instead, Tokyo EAD decided not to release Mario Galaxy 1.5 as they had planned. There was no way to do an expansion pack on Wii. So they made a full-fledged sequel with not only new levels, but also new suits and Yoshi and a Green Star post-game. And by making a sequel, instead of just a level pack, they made yet another masterpiece and a game that, some contend, is even better than the original.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Linkhero1 said:
I believe this has been posted in the previous thread. Bg did a lot of digging at one point...so much that he now has ninjas after him.
Click to expand...

Oh ok cool.

Emily Rogers posted some patent on twitter too.

I don't know if this is old.

Denis Dyack and Miyamoto were inventors of patent. Nintendo filed it 2010. It was published in patent office in 2012. So it was filed 1 year after Too Human was released

http://www.google.com/patents/US7928986?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false

First they file a patent in 2010. Then they re-register the Eternal Darkness trademark. Seems like something is going on.
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
So just in case the conference is a disaster, maybe someone could Reggie-fy my beloved Toonces gif? Heck, from what I hear Konami already drove theirs off a cliff:

3144614_o.gif


I can see our avatars as the passengers and the GAF logo on the car already!
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Oddduck said:
Emily Rogers posted linkedin to some Sega producers account.

https://twitter.com/#!/Emi1yRogers

Linkedin: http://tinyurl.com/6rwyprw

Current Projects:
Aliens: Colonial Marines (360/PS3/PC/Wii U)
Unannounced Title (XBLA/PSN/PC/Wii-U)
Click to expand...

Sonic Adventure 2 HD

MDX said:
Nintendo Conference:

25% 3DS
05% Wii (they'll talk about new Wii channel, DQX and segway to showing the WiiU version)
70% WiiU
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Maybe a little more time on 3DS, although I hope not. They'll probably mention Pokemon Black 2/White 2 at some point, but not get too into it.




As for DLC, I thought Nintendo's policy was if you pick up the game early enough, you get it all for free? THAT is DLC done right.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
Anth0ny said:
As for DLC, I thought Nintendo's policy was if you pick up the game early enough, you get it all for free? THAT is DLC done right.
Click to expand...
Well, not it all. You get the most popular character and his map for free if you pick the game up early, but any more you have to buy. Doesn't really matter, though, the game is cheaper than most other 3DS games (in Japan at least).
 
A

antonz

Member
Sigh I tried to get Tak to slip up and say if LOS2 is coming to the Wii U when he asked me what I thought of the conference but hes too good :(
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
So, no Castlevania Los2, no MGS Rising and even no PES13 for Wii U from the Konami conference?
Or they did not announce any platform for the new games and maybe are hiding the reveal of MGS for Nintendo stage?
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Dreamwriter said:
The dev kits they have now won't look like Wii-U final hardware, so Nintendo wouldn't be showing it off to the press if they can help it, not when they have final hardware to work off of. What they will have at E3 will be the final boxes that customers will have in their hands, or as close to it as possible, not dev kits. Even 3DS developers didn't get dev kits that looked like just plain 3DS's until after launch (they did get a sort-of "in between" device that would only work with dev carts, but that wasn't until after the launch E3 and they still didn't look like final hardware).
Click to expand...
Who said anything about devkits? I was referring to plain old QA units ala units with extra ram so that they could run debug builds.

And no, I don't expect final hardware to be able to run titles off of SD unless those titles were signed specifically for that system, just like the Wii. You can't download a Wiiware game onto SD card, and take that card to a friend's house, it won't work. And dev kits are the same, you burn a game directly to the dev kit hard drive, you don't burn it to an SD card and plug that in.
Click to expand...
Are you aware of the concept of chain-of-trust in cryptography? Master keys, etc? How do you think I can flash the fw of my ps3 from a usb key with a fw I downloaded on my PC? There's nothing stopping nintendo from issuing a "E3 universal" temp key, so that all devs can sign their stuff with it, bring it to E3 where all units will be able to read so signed stuff, and the revoke said key after E3. Your entire argument 'but it's final hw' is irrelevant here - the show floor units most likely won't be retail units, but even if they were, they won't be running retail firmware.
 
E

Elfteiroh

Member
Freezie KO said:
Of course, I remember wishing for more levels. I also haven't said, "There has never been worthwhile DLC."

But the DLC model actively encourages publishers to withhold content. That's what makes it anti-consumer. In the past, there has never been such an impetus to release the minimal acceptable amount of content. And that's an important point.

Is Mario Galaxy without Luigi worth $50? Sure, it is. Is it worth $55 with Luigi? Probably. But I got it for $50 with that extra content because there was no mechanism for the publisher to withhold the extra stuff and then sell it later.

Another thing that makes it anti-consumer is how it takes away power (information) from the consumer because the consumer will never ever know what was withheld and what was developed later.

And to return to your first point, I wanted an expansion pack for Mario Galaxy. Instead, Tokyo EAD decided not to release Mario Galaxy 1.5 as they had planned. There was no way to do an expansion pack on Wii. So they made a full-fledged sequel with not only new levels, but also new suits and Yoshi and a Green Star post-game. And by making a sequel, instead of just a level pack, they made yet another masterpiece and a game that, some contend, is even better than the original.
Click to expand...

But there is new ideas that can't be put in the original game that is not big enough for a sequel. And with out DLC, you can't know how many of them are actually canned and never see the light of day. It goes both ways. DLC is a tool. Like a hammer, it could be used right (to really add content that couldn't be put in the original game or that wouldn't really fit / hit a nail (the metal one)) or it could be used wrong (delivering cut content / hitting someone on the head to kill him). Should we stop making hammer because it could kill people? No. We actually arrest those that use it to kill. Same for DLC. We don't have to stop making them, we just have to stop buying the wrong ones.
 
A

antonz

Member
Aostia said:
So, no Castlevania Los2, no MGS Rising and even no PES13 for Wii U from the Konami conference?
Or they did not announce any platform for the new games and maybe are hiding the reveal of MGS for Nintendo stage?
Click to expand...

LOS2 trailer said PS3,360. Its entirely possible its a Wii U title but never know. It is Konami
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
Elfteiroh said:
But there is new ideas that can't be put in the original game that is not big enough for a sequel. And with out DLC, you can't know how many of them are actually canned and never see the light of day. It goes both ways. DLC is a tool. Like a hammer, it could be used right (to really add content that couldn't be put in the original game or that wouldn't really fit / hit a nail (the metal one)) or it could be used wrong (delivering cut content / hitting someone on the head to kill him). Should we stop making hammer because it could kill people? No. We actually arrest those that use it to kill. Same for DLC. We don't have to stop making them, we just have to stop buying the wrong ones.
Click to expand...

DLC is like a hammer that gives you money every time you bash someone over the head.

It's not just a tool if there's a financial incentive to use it in an evil way.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Agent Unknown said:
So just in case the conference is a disaster, maybe someone could Reggie-fy my beloved Toonces gif? Heck, from what I hear Konami already drove theirs off a cliff:

3144614_o.gif


I can see our avatars as the passengers and the GAF logo on the car already!
Click to expand...

An idea...

At the end of the crash zoom out of the scene with it being a still on the "tv" screen behind Reggie here...
500x_reggie_not_my_problem.jpg
Click to expand...


I know its a backdrop, but it still looks like a TV screen there.
 
N

nckillthegrimace

Member
Prediction: LoS2 will be announced for the Wii U at the Nintendo conference after Mirror of Fate is shown off at said conference. They will interact in some way.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
blu said:
Who said anything about devkits? I was referring to plain old QA units ala units with extra ram so that they could run debug builds.


Are you aware of the concept of chain-of-trust in cryptography? Master keys, etc? How do you think I can flash the fw of my ps3 from a usb key with a fw I downloaded on my PC? There's nothing stopping nintendo from issuing a "E3 universal" temp key, so that all devs can sign their stuff with it, bring it to E3 where all units will be able to read so signed stuff, and the revoke said key after E3. Your entire argument 'but it's final hw' is irrelevant here - the show floor units most likely won't be retail units, but even if they were, they won't be running retail firmware.
Click to expand...
So you don't think Nintendo cares about security, and are willing to let anyone who can burn new firmware totally break their system with no trouble at all, just to make the lives of developers a tiny bit easier? You think after the Sony master keys leaked they'd purposely leave that same vulnerability in the system, so then it could be eventually hacked, just for this one E3?

And a "QA unit with extra ram for debugging" is a dev kit, and won't look like a final unit.
 
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