If watchdogs cannot be played on a tablet controller but mario wii u can then only the latter is a next gen game? How about starwars 1313 vs. Batman armored edition 2 wii u exclusive? Only the latter which is visually inferior to an xbox 360 game is next gen?
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ME3, NG3:RE, Batman, EM2, WO3, BLOPS2, Darksiders 2 have technical issues on Wii U
- Thread starter Nibel
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If watchdogs cannot be played on a tablet controller but mario wii u can then only the latter is a next gen game? How about starwars 1313 vs. Batman armored edition 2 wii u exclusive? Only the latter which is visually inferior to an xbox 360 game is next gen?
You can call the delineation silly, but it's pretty clear. The hardware is what's actually running the game. If there was hardware in the controller then that would become a gen descriptor as a core feature. Otherwise it's just a peripheral.
My point of view comes from the fact that I was more interested in fighter jets before I started noticing game consoles. Fighter jet generations make so much more sense to me. Those labels aren't glorified birthdays.
It's almost as if people have different definitions of what 'Next Gen' is, shocking I know!
Could you list a console from every generation? I'm only up to 5th gen as of 360/PS3/Wii (8,16,32/64,xbox/ps2/gc, 360...).
The Xbox 360 and PS3 only became next-gen systems when Kinect and Move came out! That's when we finally saw next-gen games!!
Lol, Kinect Star Wars is the best 'Next Gen' game I've played! I liked RE5 bring upgraded to 'Next Gen' as well.
Is the new controller really all that different though? Nintendo has been doing the two screen idea over a decade ago with the GameCubeGame Boy Advance link cable. (I remember their E3 2003 conference focused on that stuff with Pac-Man Vs, Zelda: Four Swords, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles etc and everyone was saying it was their worst conference ever).
This just seems like an evolution of an old idea.
thecouncil
Banned
ill never understand "next gen" being determined by power instead of time.
because who draws the line and where?
the next generation has started. 360 and PS3 are last gen, pretty much.
because who draws the line and where?
the next generation has started. 360 and PS3 are last gen, pretty much.
plagiarize
Banned
the Wii U will spend most of it's time competing for sales with the PS4 and 720, rather than the current gen consoles. the Wii was the one competing with them. since consoles tend to release within a year or two of each other, and then we tend to go a number of years before that happens again, it makes more sense to talk about generations in terms of release date, rather than equivalent power.
the Wii U does not represent a generational leap in graphics capabilities, obviously... but just as the Wii was competing with the HD twins last gen, it will be competing with... well, whatever we come to name the PS4 and 720 this generation.
if we're talking about 'generation' to mean what it means in the CPU/GPU market, then that isn't something which is based on raw power either. the most powerful GPU of the previous generation will easily best most of the GPUs of the current generation. the GPU in the Wii U may not be much more powerful than those in the PS3 and 360, but it has a much more modern design.
the Wii U does not represent a generational leap in graphics capabilities, obviously... but just as the Wii was competing with the HD twins last gen, it will be competing with... well, whatever we come to name the PS4 and 720 this generation.
if we're talking about 'generation' to mean what it means in the CPU/GPU market, then that isn't something which is based on raw power either. the most powerful GPU of the previous generation will easily best most of the GPUs of the current generation. the GPU in the Wii U may not be much more powerful than those in the PS3 and 360, but it has a much more modern design.
What is difficult to understand? I mean this as an honest question. The developers draw the line. Fan expectations draw the line. For all fucking time next-generation meant BIGGER, SHINIER, MORE COMPLEX GAMES AS A DIRECT RESULT OF BIGGER, SHINIER, MORE COMPLEX HARDWARE.
Nes to Snes/Genesis was a graphical leap. Snes was NOT a next-gen platform because the controller got more buttons
Snes/Genesis to N64/PSX was a graphical leap. The PSX was not considered last gen because it did not originally come with N64's analogue stick.
N64/PSX to GC/PS2/Xbox was a graphical leap. It was not a next-gen leap only when everyone was featuring dual analogue controllers. It was because of the massive increase in computational power
PS2/Xbox to PS3/Xbox 360 was a generational leap. WE GOT BETTER LOOKING GAMES.
GC to Wii gave us the SAME LOOKING GAMES. NO ONE considered it a generational leap of any kind. It was a change of peripherals. No Unreal Engine 3 games. Shit 3rd party support due to shit hardware.
Please tell me where the confusion is. Please tell me how it is difficult to comprehend how each generation has been defined by WHAT THE GAMES WERE CAPABLE OF LOOKING LIKE.
I agree. I also say throw handhelds out of the mix and give them their own gen timeline. Calling the PS4 and 3DS the same generation, for example, just doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
Because that's not been how generations have been defined before, it only started when the Wii came around for obvious reasons.
gamergirly
Member
And were going to get better looking games on the Wii U in time too. Next gen is no longer defined by just technical capabilities anymore, its defined by how you play games as well beyond visuals
Spieler Eins
Member
Terrible gaming journalism and buffoons like the dorito pope overusing ,,next gen'' as a buzzword must be a big influence for this whole idiocy.
I need to go to work real soon, so I'll leave those still confused by what I mean this question.
Why was there a near melt-down on GAF when it was revealed that the (at the time) "Revolution" was indeed an over-clocked Gamecube? Where were the people saying "LOL what were you expecting? Why are you expecting more power from Nintendo's next machine? Next-gen is all about chronological order not technology ROFL I don't understand". It has always been about graphical sophistication.
And they would be considered as the same generation as Durango and PS4? Watchdogs and StarWars 1313 will be in the same generation as what Wii U will eventually turn out? Unreal engine 4 at best possible console form on Durango and PS4 will be as "next generation" as Unreal engine 3 at its best possible form on Wii U?
Wii U is next generation in name, not in spirit.
Why was there a near melt-down on GAF when it was revealed that the (at the time) "Revolution" was indeed an over-clocked Gamecube? Where were the people saying "LOL what were you expecting? Why are you expecting more power from Nintendo's next machine? Next-gen is all about chronological order not technology ROFL I don't understand". It has always been about graphical sophistication.
And they would be considered as the same generation as Durango and PS4? Watchdogs and StarWars 1313 will be in the same generation as what Wii U will eventually turn out? Unreal engine 4 at best possible console form on Durango and PS4 will be as "next generation" as Unreal engine 3 at its best possible form on Wii U?
Wii U is next generation in name, not in spirit.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
It's pretty silly to say the Wii U isn't part of a new cycle of consoles because of it's power. It's a new Nintendo console that's part of a new cycle of consoles, with the new Xbox and PS4 fast approaching. Regardless of the specifications of any of the consoles, they'll all be part of the new cycle. -- the 8th generation. New generations did bring upon new, more powerful hardware - but it was usually defined by a general 4-5 year console life cycle as well. Both of those things have changed since the the Wii, PS3, 360 generation though.
Spieler Eins
Member
All that doesn't influence the generation aka time frame the console is released in. It's different from what people expect, so there's meltdowns, but that doesn't change the fact that the WiiU is part of the next generation in which it will compete against PS4/720 for a certain period of time. Whether it's using technology that might be from previous generations (well certain parts, because the controller is actually something new) is a different story altogether.
Doubledoubt
Banned
Jesus people don't understand the word generation. Its kinda sad actually. If you're 20 years old you're in the same generation as every college football player in country, despite how stronger, faster, and more athletic they may be.
Get it? Didn't think so....carry on.
Get it? Didn't think so....carry on.
You folks conveniently forget that I mention Wii U is apart of this generation chronologically but not technologically which is what enthusiasts refer to when talking about "next generation".
What if next generation was all about SNES graphics? The next Nintendo system is an SNES but with a new power glove.
What if the Durango was the OG Xbox, yes with Celeron, ancient Nvidia card and 64 MB of RAM? Its got the new power glove knock off.
What if the PS4 was a PSX, but again, with a power glove knock off.
Yes, each would be "next-generation" chronologically, but would not be next-generation systems.
When Star Wars 1313 is said to arrive on "Next generation" consoles, do you really expect it on Wii U? Do you really expect it to be a next-gen engine? Was Modern Warfare on Wii a next gen title? Did it run on a next gen engine? Do you confidently proclaim that Wii has a next-generation Modern Warfare game?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
One could say the meltdowns themselves caused people to contextualize the landscape in order to justify said meltdowns. Suddenly, graphics went from being only one factor (if significant) in denoting a generational shift, to becoming the only thing that mattered.
I have to wonder what's going to happen when things fragment even further as technology and markets mature. Going into the next generation of consoles, it seems if you really have got to have the best graphics, and the best performance, you ought to consider going PC. There's a cost limit on mainstream television set boxes, as Sony learned with $599.99. You can only cram so much hardware of a given capability into a mass market box.
It seems like a failure to understand this is resulting in some of the Wii U meltdowns and "Nintendo is selling you 7 year old technology for a rip off price". No, evidently they're not even breaking even. The combination of technology in the box, which involves more than just the speed of the CPU, is not "cheap ass". Designing a custom gaming platform is not like parting out a bargain basement gaming PC at Newegg.
Regardless of whether any specific person likes it, this is the strategy Nintendo has gone with. Given what has been stated so far, it's not even a cheap strategy, but I suspect they are - rightly or wrongly - banking on the console being able to produce nice visuals while balancing so-called hardcore games with so-called mainstream games. Rather than overwhelming power devoted purely at coming as close as possible to how "hardcore" games run on a 2012 gaming PC and going deeper into the red to achieve it.
God help us all if Orbis or Durango are perceived as being in some way "cheap" because they don't incorporate X hardware attribute at X price point. The way some people talk, there's going to be suicides.
plagiarize
Banned
no, it wasn't. it was a current gen title. just like it was on 360 and PS3.
Yep. With what some people are expecting from Orbis/Durango, I expect to see either a $500 price tag with great specs and 1/2 years of slow sales, or a $350/400 price tag with average specs, faster sales out of the gate and GAF meltdowns.
What if you're 30 trying to pass as 20?
soulassssns
Banned
I have yet to play a game thisgen that didnt have any technical issues.
One last thing before I go. Going by the strict definition of each new generation being solely defined by chronological order, one basically should not realistically expect anything from a new console. Anything released as a next iteration of a console should automatically be considered "next-generation", even if it were a simple refinement of a Super Nintendo, then this is next-generation.
If Nintendo were to re-release the Nintendo with a new peripheral, well then we would be mistaken in considering it anything other than "next-generation" as it is the next console from Nintendo.
This strict definition of next-generation has absolutely nothing to do with past expectations of what constituted a true generational leap. Every previous generation has been a leap in hardware capability and this is still the expectation by enthusiasts. It is not enough to re-release an overclocked gamecube or a console with merely Xbox 360 level of performance and throw in a gimmick to make it a new generation. If the technology has the performance level of what a prior generation was capable of, then it is simply not a "next" generation piece of technology but merely the newest iteration of past technology.
If Nintendo were to re-release the Nintendo with a new peripheral, well then we would be mistaken in considering it anything other than "next-generation" as it is the next console from Nintendo.
This strict definition of next-generation has absolutely nothing to do with past expectations of what constituted a true generational leap. Every previous generation has been a leap in hardware capability and this is still the expectation by enthusiasts. It is not enough to re-release an overclocked gamecube or a console with merely Xbox 360 level of performance and throw in a gimmick to make it a new generation. If the technology has the performance level of what a prior generation was capable of, then it is simply not a "next" generation piece of technology but merely the newest iteration of past technology.
Doubledoubt
Banned
Then you're more than likely not going to fit in well with that generation.
In the context of living organisms, you would be correct. In technology, including the gaming industry:
Oxford dictionary: generation said:
By this definition, it is certainly debatable. The game pad certainly seems to be "next gen", yet the overall power of the machine is "current gen".
Oh I see. They were totally in the same generation then. Everything on the Wii can be described as being in the same generation as the Xbox 360 and PS3. When the Wii was revealed to be a gamecube in disguise, people were just being unreasonable when they claimed it was not a generational leap. The expectations of a technological leap in line with the rest of the industry was unwarranted and inherently ridiculous as this has never been the case with any technological field ever. Next-generation has always and will only ever be what the next iteration of a console is.
Wii U 2 has the exact same hardware with games that look identical to the Wii U/Xbox 360/PS3 but with a power glove while the competition has at minimum quadrupled all specifications. Hey same generation.
Wii U 3 has the exact same hardware with games that look identical to the Wii U/Xbox 360/PS3 but with new VR helmet while the competition has quadrupled all specirfications and once again, any games that happen to appear on Wii U 3 are totally next-generation even if the Wii U 3 simply cannot run any current engine and must use engines created and perfected for the Xbox 360 and PS3 era.
Gotcha.
Wrestlemania
Banned
But the overall package is a new generation of console, regardless of whether or not it has parity with the previous generation of rival console in some respects. It is also a generational leap above the Wii in all respects.
The bigger problem is that the entire discussion is somehow irrevocably tied to quality. I don't have a problem with a new console being given a certain label. If I believed the WiiU was a 360/PS3 gen machine that in no way means that I believe the WiiU is terrible. It was designed with certain performance standards in mind
in most other industries this would be the generational definition
If the Orbis and Durango don't meet the expectations of third party publishers then I would also label them Gen 7.5 consoles. It's not really a big deal. It's OK for hardware to be classified beyond their birthdays!
A brand new console...a next generation console struggling to keep up with a console from 2005...let that sink in for a moment...
It isn't struggling. They are rushed launch games. Why don't we wait and see what comes in 2013 before making such stupid comments.
I'm not terribly concerned about launch ports. I really doubt that any of the teams put their all into it.
I did think that Darksiders was touted to run better on the Wii U...at least, I remember reading that back before E3 when their devs said they had code running on the gamepad in 15 minutes or whatever it was.
Aliens Colonial Marines will be an interesting test, as the devs will have had more time with it than some of these games.
I just hope Nintendo jacks up the graphics in Pikmin a bit, or has some other first party game that they can show off that good graphics can be done on the system with good performance. I so wish that a new Galaxy game launched rather than NSMBU. It's a fine game, but you know...
I did think that Darksiders was touted to run better on the Wii U...at least, I remember reading that back before E3 when their devs said they had code running on the gamepad in 15 minutes or whatever it was.
Aliens Colonial Marines will be an interesting test, as the devs will have had more time with it than some of these games.
I just hope Nintendo jacks up the graphics in Pikmin a bit, or has some other first party game that they can show off that good graphics can be done on the system with good performance. I so wish that a new Galaxy game launched rather than NSMBU. It's a fine game, but you know...
shinra-bansho
Member
Why is everyone so concerned about the Wii U nominally being "next gen" or not, when it ultimately doesn't address that it isn't remotely close to being the technological leap traditionally accompanying a console transition.
Semantics won't change these technical issues. Semantics won't alter publisher perceptions. Semantics won't generate third party support.
Semantics won't change these technical issues. Semantics won't alter publisher perceptions. Semantics won't generate third party support.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Exactly. WiiU games should at least look better than PS360 counterparts. They don't look better and they don't run better.
gamergirly
Member
Yes, unrushed optimized games should look better. I agree. Unfortunately it looks like only COD:BLOPSII and ASIII were given any thought and time before release.
I don't remember Dreamcast launch games doing this.
I don't remember Xbox or Xbox 360 launch games having this much problems.
I don't remember Wii launch games doing that either.
Yeah that's what is kind of bothering me too. Everyone is fighting over semantics and definitions. Alright fine Wii U is a next gen console by defintion...but it isn't fit to run modern games at an acceptable standard let alone what will be actual next gen games in another year and a half or two years.
That's the point and that's what people are saying when they say it's not next gen. Don't get caught up in semantics.
A proper bump in specs should be able to run circles around old hardware even with bottlenecks. My 2011 PC does with Assassin's Creed 3. There's obvious inefficiencies in CPU and GPU utilization (I disable one of my GPUs to get better performance and only 1/4 CPU cores is 100% used), but with the proper settings it runs on average 80 FPS with low AA and otherwise max settings at 1080p.
You would have a point if there were just a few games behaving like this, though it's unprecedented historically. But ALL are struggling, I mean come on. Suppose WiiU's GPU is a GTX680 even somehow magically, it's going to choke on DDR3 1600 MHz.
Call it next generation if you want, but we're talking about technology, not people. If you get a new feature phone and compare it to someone's smart phone from 2011, you could call your feature phone next generation, but it doesn't really mean anything.
Your link is exactly what I'm trying to tell you people not to do. Trying to correct people's definition of the phrase is completely missing the point of what they're really trying to say. And I have a feeling most of you realize that and are only being pains in the ass.
Pikmin 3 is supposed to be THE 1st-party launch game. fingers crossed
At some point it's not all these different developers, but rather the hardware. Didn't Nintendo give dev kits well in advance? Beyond that, Nintendo was the one pushing all these ports when U was announced. Nintendo wanted third party ports, but either didn't give those developers the proper horsepower or tools to develop ports that run equivalent to seven year old console versions of the same game.
Teletraan1
Banned
Console Generation is a chronological grouping of consoles based on release and direct market competition.
"Next Gen" is a marketing word usually used to describe base graphical features that one should expect from an upcoming console generation. It is used to hype up something that is not possible with the previous console generation. It is rather worthless and ill named since it is often used well into a console generation. So you end up calling something current "next" for far too long.
They aren't the same thing at all.
I could say that Wii/PS3/360 are all in the same console generation, the 7th Console Generation however only PS3/360 had "Next Gen" quality graphics.
It gets even muddier when people start calling control methods, system features and peripherals "Next Gen". From one persons standpoint Wii had "Next Gen" controls, or the 360 had "Next Gen" online infrastructure and features. The Wii U has a "Next Gen" tablet interface. Worthless marketing term is worthless imo.
"Next Gen" is a marketing word usually used to describe base graphical features that one should expect from an upcoming console generation. It is used to hype up something that is not possible with the previous console generation. It is rather worthless and ill named since it is often used well into a console generation. So you end up calling something current "next" for far too long.
They aren't the same thing at all.
I could say that Wii/PS3/360 are all in the same console generation, the 7th Console Generation however only PS3/360 had "Next Gen" quality graphics.
It gets even muddier when people start calling control methods, system features and peripherals "Next Gen". From one persons standpoint Wii had "Next Gen" controls, or the 360 had "Next Gen" online infrastructure and features. The Wii U has a "Next Gen" tablet interface. Worthless marketing term is worthless imo.