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Xbox One - Help Spread the Word
- Thread starter RedNumberFive
- Start date
Sure, what's your Steam ID? Oh wait...
I'm sympathetic of those who dislike Xbox One's DRM and online policies. I'm not a fan either.
But that doesn't mean my two options are either stand in the picket line or be vilified.
LupinTheThird
Banned
And that's what MS is banking on. Good little proles who do what they're told and don't pause to consider the rights they lose in the process. Enjoy your stack of coasters in 2020 when Xbone servers are shut down for the new console and you lose all rights to your collection since there's no more 24 hour handshake to reactivate them. Oh and be a good little prole next election and don't bother to vote, ok?
Kamiya? Is that you?
Difference is if he bought it off Steam he probably paid half the price. If you think Microsoft will do that kind of pricing you're having a laugh. This is the same company that coupled with Sony, charges on average MORE for a digital download version of a game than its lower priced retail offerings, despite the massive cost savings.
This is where the problem lies? Now your moving into stage of 4 of grief. Blaming other people for Microsofts stance. Get over yourself.
Trent Strong
Banned
I don't recognize games as art. And I don't want developers to try to make games become art. I want developers to make games.
I wish people would be consistent. Either it's a "consumer rights" issue or it's a price issue. Either you care about the principle of the thing or you care about the cash in your pocket. Both are valid, but damnit pick one.
Half the games I've bought on Steam new have been full price, and about the same number of games I've bought on Xbox 360 new have been less than their original release price. I paid $50 (gotta use that American Amazon gift card somehow) for Airland Battle on launch and I can't do jack with that copy of the game on Steam.
Agreed. I can live with (encourage! even) logical, consistent bitching.
puebla
Member
if you can't afford it, don't buy it, you're argument is retarded.
But principles have a price so "rights" and "price" do go hand in hand. If someone gives me enough value, then the negatives are easily negated.
For example, I can put up with Apple's DRM because the games are a dollar, I can install them on multiple iOS devices, they carry forward to next generation hardware, etc.
I can put up with Steam's DRM because of the ridiculous sales, I can back up my library, move it around, use it if my internet goes down, etc.
I even put up with Xbox 360 DRM. It's by no means perfect but it's not offensive enough to push me away due to the fact I can trade games, lend games etc. and retail is dictating pricing leading to lower prices.
But I can't support this. There aren't enough benefits to me to make the restrictions worthwhile. Essentially it's all of the bad bits of digital distribution applied to a boxed product for no other reason than "because we can".
Really? Games drop price on Steam much faster and deeper than on XBL.
Templar_Dante
Banned
The essence of why the world devolves to shit. Weather its about the economy, enviroment, taking care of the poor/needy. Its always lies with those dont give a F.
PC also sells these games for like, a fiver. It's also more likely that, in the next decade or two, I'll still be able to connect my PC to the Internet and download the games I've bought.
If I spend a fiver and get a bum game, that's not really a huge loss to me. Would be a bit of a different story if I were spending console game money on them, but then with all the consoles I've had, it's not been an issue to trade it in/sell it on eBay.
do you not buy full price PC games? I mean, I personally don't because I'm poor as fuck, but... there are cheap XBLA games and shit w/o resale rights... there are expensive PC games. I don't really get the price argument.
If you're buying new (or around release time) then Steam often isn't that much better, and the price difference is in my view compensated by the lack of flexibility in being able to trade that stuff in or lend to a friend.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/222750/ Airland Battle - £30 ($50?)
http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/202970/ Call of Duty Black Ops II - £40 ($60?)
Publishers set those Steam prices.
It's about both. It's also about value proposition to the consumer. The main reason Steam, iOS and Android games etc do well without used games is precisely because of the pricing and sales. Heck PC games are cheaper than console fames full stop.
Can't help but agree with him. I never bought a used game before. The only game I rented this generation was Bioshock Infinite and that was because I was saving money for something else. My internet is always on. Given all this, I can't ignore the fact that MS is mistreating their consumer base. If I buy their product, I'm telling them that their practices are okay. Its about the principal.
This is coming from someone that solely got into gaming just because of xbox live. It changed everything for me about gaming and how we interacted with people through this medium. If It wasn't for them, gaming wouldn't be a hobby. The first generation xbox was my main console and so was the 360.
GitarooMan
Member
But don't they also violate our consumer "rights"?
Latvian Hitman
Member
puebla
Member
holy shit, this is a console. its not a health care debate lmfao
I'd say that they do (though less so in some respects, such as being able to play offline etc), but offset it with better value pricing. This is the trade off. If Microsoft announced tomorrow that all new games would have an RRP of $40, I guarantee you the sentiment around here would be quite different. It would be give and take, not just take.
yes. and I told publishers and microsoft to fuck off because I have free will and agency... in the free market. surely we can draw a distinction between the two.
there's nothing wrong with selling a walled garden (every video game system ever has been pretty heavily controlled.... I love iOS, etc. etc.).
At release, yeah, Steam games are usually full price. But you can just wait awhile for games on Steam to drop price, just like you would wait for games on 360 to drop price. So I'm a bit surprised you paid full price for Steam games as often as with 360 games.
GitarooMan
Member
I think that's a valid point. The indignation just seems a bit extreme (and IMO a wee bit hypocritical) when there are PC retail games (along with other software) on disc sitting on shelves right now that can't be sold once bought, and no one seemed to give a shit about it.
BadAss2961
Member
What about the camera always watching you? And that you as a gamer pay 50-100 bucks more for the console because of all the crap in it you dont need. Doesnt bother you either?
ill put a bandaid over it when im gaming and i have one of these off switch adapters so its not on when the xbox is turned off.
also ill buy it as long as its under 450. if its above that, ill buy another console or wait for a price drop.
Souless_PJ
Banned
To all the people who are worried about having coasters in future - do you think MS is going out of business or something? All IT is moving to the cloud - Windows will be around for a while yet to authenticate all their various services. Besides now that both MS and Sony are on PC architecture I'd be very surprised if we have future backwards compatible issues going forward. What else are they going to use for next gen - ARM?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
*applause*
This is just games, though. If I find a product personally agreeable and worth the asking price, there is no obligation for me to consider your needs in this instance.
Unlike politics or the economy or general welfare.
gaming is a luxury buddy
No not that, but they DID shut down Live for the OG.
It would be nice to know my One won't be a doorstop if MS ever decides to shut down Live forwhatever reason.
Maybe a hint to possibly releasing a firmware update that removes the check in process or something.
SneakyStephan
Banned
This thread is embarrasing, gaf can't even come together when it's to look out for their own or eachother's interests.
Show some solidarity.
Instead of the consumer trying to protect themselves this thread has become about 'us vs them' (the people against vs the people who don't care)
Shameful display, you can turn anything into a war with picking sides it seems...
Show some solidarity.
Instead of the consumer trying to protect themselves this thread has become about 'us vs them' (the people against vs the people who don't care)
Shameful display, you can turn anything into a war with picking sides it seems...
graywolf323
Member
some of us don't want to have to pay to play our console when traveling
but you've been defending this since the reveal announcement so of course it's not a surprise you still are and are even happy about it
Oh don't be so fucking ridiculous. How arrogant are you to assume that *every* gamer should feel maligned by this?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
This gif is going to be outdated if Sony tries to do the same as Microsoft.
Dont take me wrong, I hope they really are hearing the audience and dont make the same mistakes as microsoft is doing, but will see in the future.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
Wait, I thought you could lend games. If a person is in your family they can play your game from their XBO right? I also thought I heard something about being able to lend a person a game if they have been on your friends list for 30 days
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Its funny you say that because I see the same stance with some people in politics. Thats why my country is in the state it is.
If lots of people dont give a fuck of shitty politics I can understand why people also done give a fuck in some maligned policies on a luxury product.
Sometimes I think we are no more intelligent than sheeps.
Tom Hatherford
Banned
You know you guys don't have to buy the thing right? I can understand the reactions of confusion and lol-ing, but Anger?
Dont buy the thing, Im sure alot won't. That "spreads the word" more than any actual words will.
Dont buy the thing, Im sure alot won't. That "spreads the word" more than any actual words will.
Fortinbras
Member
I made a German version of the pdf in the OP. If anyone wants it:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/phxlly62bp2bco6/DRM_Ger.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/phxlly62bp2bco6/DRM_Ger.pdf
Why do I have to be upset because you are?
At this point the hashtags shouldn't be #NoDRM and #XBoxDifference. It should just be #NoXBox.
We shouldn't be telling them "we're not okay with this particular thing, change it", but "we're not okay with your product. We're not okay with your philosophy. Go away." When a company goes this far, I wouldn't expect them to understand once and for all what we don't want. If we tell them "DRM is the one thing we don't like about your product", they'll somehow end up thinking "oh, I guess FOR NOW we'll abandon it, but we'll definitely push it again eventually." They'll never understand that we're never gonna accept it if we don't reject the philosophy AND the company. They'll always come back with slimier ideas and practices.
I have zero trust in Microsoft understanding the crux of the issue here.
We shouldn't be telling them "we're not okay with this particular thing, change it", but "we're not okay with your product. We're not okay with your philosophy. Go away." When a company goes this far, I wouldn't expect them to understand once and for all what we don't want. If we tell them "DRM is the one thing we don't like about your product", they'll somehow end up thinking "oh, I guess FOR NOW we'll abandon it, but we'll definitely push it again eventually." They'll never understand that we're never gonna accept it if we don't reject the philosophy AND the company. They'll always come back with slimier ideas and practices.
I have zero trust in Microsoft understanding the crux of the issue here.
cormack12
Gold Member
Should make it a bit more viral as well.
'You can share this news/poster with 10 family/friends. You can pass this poster on to any person you've known more than 30 days to carry on the cycle. You must have access to an internet connection in the locale you do this.'
I think the main bugbear is that DRM should be unintrusive if implemented. Take Cinavia for instance. Annoys those who rip films and have compatible hardware but most consumers don't even realise it's there. This is basically a fishing net being cast as far wide as possible with extremely difficult and challenging obstacles for 'Mr. Everyday O'bey the Rules'.
Further all this used games stuff is nonsense. I pass games to my brothers, if they like them then they will be buy any sequels when they come out automatically. Their internet is BT and only runs at 5Mbps. Imagine needing to download a 35GB game on that, and it's hardly reliable. Trying to get my folks to change ISP is a tough grind though - old habits die hard etc.
For instance, I've just gave them Black Ops II (they got fed up with CoD after MW2, but they wanted to give it another go). Under this new model, I now can't get this game returned to me? Nah. Can't defend that. Like the hardware, the ecosystem is badly designed and poorly implemented. E3 will tell if the software is the same, if it is then it might well just be a MS/EA dedicated console.
'You can share this news/poster with 10 family/friends. You can pass this poster on to any person you've known more than 30 days to carry on the cycle. You must have access to an internet connection in the locale you do this.'
I think the main bugbear is that DRM should be unintrusive if implemented. Take Cinavia for instance. Annoys those who rip films and have compatible hardware but most consumers don't even realise it's there. This is basically a fishing net being cast as far wide as possible with extremely difficult and challenging obstacles for 'Mr. Everyday O'bey the Rules'.
Further all this used games stuff is nonsense. I pass games to my brothers, if they like them then they will be buy any sequels when they come out automatically. Their internet is BT and only runs at 5Mbps. Imagine needing to download a 35GB game on that, and it's hardly reliable. Trying to get my folks to change ISP is a tough grind though - old habits die hard etc.
For instance, I've just gave them Black Ops II (they got fed up with CoD after MW2, but they wanted to give it another go). Under this new model, I now can't get this game returned to me? Nah. Can't defend that. Like the hardware, the ecosystem is badly designed and poorly implemented. E3 will tell if the software is the same, if it is then it might well just be a MS/EA dedicated console.