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Reasons for concern when it comes to the PS4......
- Thread starter BruiserBear
- Start date
The PS4 will be able to download and install in the background.
NullPointer
Member
I know, but will that install process still take as long? That's my question.
Also, the new Store is still confusing. To give one example, I've been looking for some digital download God of War action and saw this on the PSN+ Exclusives section.
There you can see GoW Origins Collection: Ghost of Sparta for $20 and GoW Origins Collection: Chains of Olympus for $20. PSN+ Exclusive.
But... if you just do a search for GoW Origins Collection you get this. BOTH games in one package for $20. No PSN+ needed, and half the price of the PSN+ exclusive.
Who is running this place?
Allforce
Member
I believe that's already an option on PS3, plus you can even group games into any type of folder you want just by using the Information screen and editing the label.
I have a PS1 folder, PS2, PS3, and PSN folders.
A lot of us have been very excited about what we've seen from the PS4 so far. The most powerful next gen console by a good margin, a price $100 lower than the XB1, and no camera required to use the console.
However, when considering which console I buy this fall, I wanted to look at the big picture for a moment. To consider every aspect of these new consoles, and how I expect things to actually play out when owning one.
Sony made a lot of mistakes with the PS3, price being the biggest, but there were many more that get less attention. From a user perspective the PS3 launched without a lot of software features the 360 had day one. Over time Sony improved things considerably, but here are some areas I still have concerns about, and frankly, the more I consider all of them, I begin to think the Xbox One might just be the one I buy first.
1) The light bar on the controller can't be turned off. Again, this could be a small thing to some, but to others like myself, who have newer tvs that are very reflective, it's a big concern. I sometimes notice the tiny red light on the dual shock 3 when playing my PS3 now. That big light bar on the dual shock 4? Oh, it's going to be noticeable. Sony had better figure this one out before launch, because it's gonna irritate a lot of people.
2) Still can't change your PSN ID name. Yes, this is a small thing to some, but for others it's a big annoyance, myself included. This was possible on the Xbox 360 the day it launched in 2005. Here we are 8 years later, and it's still not possible on PS3. Maybe it will be possible on PS4, but we have yet to hear about it.
3) Download speeds are still a problem for many of us. To put it simply, for many of us PSN download speeds are far slower than Xbox Live or Steam. Yes, some people seem to have fast speeds, maybe they're just lucky to be located near a server, but many of us experience rather mediocre speeds. I'm lucky that mine are just meh. Not terrible, but not great. Sure this could be improved with new servers, but Sony's had years now, and things really haven't changed. This is clearly something they need to work on, and I don't believe they've promised it will be anytime soon.
4) The PS3 store got redesigned for a third time, and usability regressed dramatically. To me this is a real problem and it happened so recently, and it's a pattern for Sony. Sometimes it feels like they don't learn from the past, and that concerns me for the future. This new store has a ridiculous boot up time, and using it is basically a pain in the ass. Yes, it looks prettier, but the old store was fine, and much faster.
5) Achievements are going to involve, but we've heard nothing about trophies. Like it or not achievements blew up last gen, and from everything we've heard so far, it sounds like Microsoft intends to push them even further with the XB1. Dynamic achievements, and special events where those who participate will receive a special unlock all sound like great ideas to me. Sony has said nothing on this front, and I wonder if they'll be left behind once again, trying to play catchup in this highly popular sub culture in gaming. On a side note, will trophies still have to be synced on PS4? They do on Vita, and it feels very old fashioned to have to manually do this when the 360 has been auto updating achievements in the cloud since 2005.
TLR
For everything Sony gets right, they get something else very wrong. They design this brilliant new controller that everyone says is a joy to hold and use, but then they stick a large lightbar on the top of it that will surely irritate a great many users. They redesign their PSN store and make it really pretty to look at, but the usability suffers greatly, to the point where people literally dread using it. They pimp day one digital downloads, but they still have pathetically long download speeds for many users, making buying large games less appealing.
I'm just concerned that as we saw in the previous gen, Microsoft is constantly looking forward, and always ensures that the basics are done right. I don't have that same confidence with Sony, and I hope they prove me wrong next gen, but I believe there are already early warning signs that things may not be as blissful as some are expecting come launch.
#3 is the only one that I actually care about. But if these are the ONLY things to worry about with the PS4, I think it's in good shape.
krypt0nian
Banned
SONY's overwhelming acceptance by the hardcore really has some people shook.
haterofpants
Neo Member
There's a lot of different factors accounting for the slow download speeds on PSN for the PS3.
The PSN store is slow and runs horribly on the PS3 because it's a hacked together thing that the machine was never really designed to have. PSN was never originally intended to carry Day 1 Digital copies of retail games, either. Coming from XBL it will seem much worse, I'd guess. The fact that it even runs "okay" is kind of amazing.
Downloading (client-side): Earlier PS3s (and maybe later ones) put the WiFi and Bluetooth on the same I/O lines and Bluetooth handles it decently while the WiFi takes a big steaming dump. Trying to connect directly to your router via ethernet should help and see better speeds.
Downloading (server-side): Not all the PSN servers are in the same place and some are slower than others. Pause, wait ten seconds, Resume and see if that doesn't help. This is because pausing and resuming can connect you to a different (and faster) server for you.
Installing: Everything in the system is handicapped by the crypdec chip. Unless there's somewhere around all of the I/O calls being made, not even an SSD will help much; you're stuck at sub-10MB/sec forever. Erasing is faster but still dependent on file size. This is the reason why you shouldn't install stuff while downloading on the PS3, otherwise it will take FOREVER. This will generate all of the I/O calls (and will also send the heads dashing across the disk, eating all its service time in delays). Any non-SSD hard drive will freak over that.
The PS4 is supposed to handle filesystem things more like the Vita does. I know not a lot of people have Vitas in the first place, but if you look at how the PSN Store is on the Vita compared to the PS3, it's much better. It's faster, more organized and better overall. That said, sony's web interface is the best. If you want to buy/download something, do it from the web store and set it to download to your console from there. They're also releasing a mobile app for the PSN store, so hopefully it's just as good (from previews, it looks very similar to the PS Vita version of the store).
These issues are all because the Japanese were kind of slow to embrace online gaming/functionality. It was the European and American divisions that started having more of a say in how Sony operated their online & gaming stuff. They're the ones that really pushed for increased online functionality.
In contrast, Nintendo of America has to phone home to Japan when it wants to do ANYTHING. Marketing, what games get localized, who gets access to what from the gaming press, you name it. It's kinda amazing how restricted NoA is in their ability to influence the company's direction in the US. I understand why they are like this, but it's pretty hard to ignore the fact that SCEA basically helped turn the PS3 around in North America with some very aggressive marketing, and it was SCEA that drove the company towards ensuring games like Uncharted got put together for the system. NoA has nowhere near that level of autonomy allowed to them, and it shows. I'm pretty convinced that there are people in NoA who are VERY AWARE of the shortcomings of the Wii U's online services, but they get to say precisely jack **** about it, and even if they were allowed the input, NCL probably would not listen.
I know the joke here is that "Well, it is a Japanese company", but it's to the point where I'm convinced Nintendo actively goes out of their way to ignore the lessons being learned by the competition and ignore the advice that could potentially come from their branches outside of Japan. It's worked out well for them so far, at least until very recently. Of course, by "working out well" we mean "remaining profitable while their home consoles continued to sell fewer and fewer units than their competition with every hardware generation until the Wii, and fortunate that handheld competition was really only a thing during the time the PSP was Sony's main handheld".
I have also always suspected that Nintendo's higher ups being doubtful on online was because Nintendo tried it before pretty much anyone else with the Famicom and the Super Famicom Satelliview. To Nintendo it was just a novelty for consoles they didn't want to spend much on, ignoring how much people have adopted online play. It's also likely a philosophy thing. Nintendo is one of the only game publishers that still really considers local multiplayer. Videogames used to rule local multiplayer and now things have shied away from it. This has lead to the growth of independent board games, which are selling better now than ever before. This is because online multiplayer and local multiplayer are two completely different beasts.
The PSN store is slow and runs horribly on the PS3 because it's a hacked together thing that the machine was never really designed to have. PSN was never originally intended to carry Day 1 Digital copies of retail games, either. Coming from XBL it will seem much worse, I'd guess. The fact that it even runs "okay" is kind of amazing.
Downloading (client-side): Earlier PS3s (and maybe later ones) put the WiFi and Bluetooth on the same I/O lines and Bluetooth handles it decently while the WiFi takes a big steaming dump. Trying to connect directly to your router via ethernet should help and see better speeds.
Downloading (server-side): Not all the PSN servers are in the same place and some are slower than others. Pause, wait ten seconds, Resume and see if that doesn't help. This is because pausing and resuming can connect you to a different (and faster) server for you.
Installing: Everything in the system is handicapped by the crypdec chip. Unless there's somewhere around all of the I/O calls being made, not even an SSD will help much; you're stuck at sub-10MB/sec forever. Erasing is faster but still dependent on file size. This is the reason why you shouldn't install stuff while downloading on the PS3, otherwise it will take FOREVER. This will generate all of the I/O calls (and will also send the heads dashing across the disk, eating all its service time in delays). Any non-SSD hard drive will freak over that.
The PS4 is supposed to handle filesystem things more like the Vita does. I know not a lot of people have Vitas in the first place, but if you look at how the PSN Store is on the Vita compared to the PS3, it's much better. It's faster, more organized and better overall. That said, sony's web interface is the best. If you want to buy/download something, do it from the web store and set it to download to your console from there. They're also releasing a mobile app for the PSN store, so hopefully it's just as good (from previews, it looks very similar to the PS Vita version of the store).
These issues are all because the Japanese were kind of slow to embrace online gaming/functionality. It was the European and American divisions that started having more of a say in how Sony operated their online & gaming stuff. They're the ones that really pushed for increased online functionality.
In contrast, Nintendo of America has to phone home to Japan when it wants to do ANYTHING. Marketing, what games get localized, who gets access to what from the gaming press, you name it. It's kinda amazing how restricted NoA is in their ability to influence the company's direction in the US. I understand why they are like this, but it's pretty hard to ignore the fact that SCEA basically helped turn the PS3 around in North America with some very aggressive marketing, and it was SCEA that drove the company towards ensuring games like Uncharted got put together for the system. NoA has nowhere near that level of autonomy allowed to them, and it shows. I'm pretty convinced that there are people in NoA who are VERY AWARE of the shortcomings of the Wii U's online services, but they get to say precisely jack **** about it, and even if they were allowed the input, NCL probably would not listen.
I know the joke here is that "Well, it is a Japanese company", but it's to the point where I'm convinced Nintendo actively goes out of their way to ignore the lessons being learned by the competition and ignore the advice that could potentially come from their branches outside of Japan. It's worked out well for them so far, at least until very recently. Of course, by "working out well" we mean "remaining profitable while their home consoles continued to sell fewer and fewer units than their competition with every hardware generation until the Wii, and fortunate that handheld competition was really only a thing during the time the PSP was Sony's main handheld".
I have also always suspected that Nintendo's higher ups being doubtful on online was because Nintendo tried it before pretty much anyone else with the Famicom and the Super Famicom Satelliview. To Nintendo it was just a novelty for consoles they didn't want to spend much on, ignoring how much people have adopted online play. It's also likely a philosophy thing. Nintendo is one of the only game publishers that still really considers local multiplayer. Videogames used to rule local multiplayer and now things have shied away from it. This has lead to the growth of independent board games, which are selling better now than ever before. This is because online multiplayer and local multiplayer are two completely different beasts.
la flama blanca
Banned
It's certainly brought out the worst in people, but Sony needs to be scrutinized more so now that they are in a position to set the future of console gaming.
If you're going to bash the PS4 based on shit the PS3 did wrong, you're just being silly.
The PS4 will have it's own faults and little annoyances no doubt, but acting like the PS4 will have the same problems as it's predecessor is plain ridiculous.
The PS4 is 100% completely new hardware, a completely new UI and software and it's 7 years later. A big difference.
Your only "real" complaint (the install times) has been shown to be minimized time and time again, at the reveal, at E3, at various interviews, etcetera.
NullPointer
Member
Jesus fucking Christ I'm not *bashing* the PS4. Its criticism of the platform that I haven't seen answered yet.
Stop being defensive. You also don't get to decide my "real" complaints.
Man, this thread is touchy. I'm getting a PS4. I just a few days ago bought a new slim PS3. I have concerns and thought this was a place to bring them up. Fuck.
This seems to be the answer to several of people's complaints with the PS3 in this thread. Which makes me wonder if people complain and don't really own one, or complain and have not really searched for the options, or just make up complaints.
IonicSnake
Banned
Sounds to me like you're just looking for a reason not to buy the PS4, which is perfectly fine but nothing in your list would make me not buy a console if I wanted it.
My installed games already folder themselves into PS1/PS2/PSN and such but I've never been able to organise my installed games alphabetically ever.
What?
I'm getting this feeling too.
BruiserBear
Banned
I wish people would stop thinking that anytime someone critique's one of these consoles it has to be because they're raving fanboy. This is just getting silly.
My post history shows that I play games on every platform out there. I recently finished the Last of Us on PS3. I own a Vita, and even a Wii U. I was shitting on Microsoft as hard as anyone over the DRM bullshit, and I never hold back blasting any company that does stupid shit.
I'm mostly concerned with Sonys dedication to multiplayer. To me, MS seems to get community mp experiences. Their push for dedicated servers is a big step forward for mp. Will Sony do the same?
Sony also has yet to produce a must-have, killer app multiplayer title. MS started with Halo. Last gen they invested heavily in Gears. I don't think Sony has a mp game as good as either of those. UC2 was pretty solid though. Still, MS has already secured Titanfall as at least a timed exclusive. Titanfall looks like the next big mp scene and MS investing in it shows their dedication to mp. For all the talk of Sony 1st party games they trail MS heavily in regard to mp.
Sony also has yet to produce a must-have, killer app multiplayer title. MS started with Halo. Last gen they invested heavily in Gears. I don't think Sony has a mp game as good as either of those. UC2 was pretty solid though. Still, MS has already secured Titanfall as at least a timed exclusive. Titanfall looks like the next big mp scene and MS investing in it shows their dedication to mp. For all the talk of Sony 1st party games they trail MS heavily in regard to mp.
PSN being terrible is a huge problem.....now that they are charging for it I expect Xbox live quality or better.
Reasons for concern when it comes to the XBO:
1.) $100 price increase due to a forced accessory I don't want.
2.) Forced accessory not being something I can choose to just throw in a closet and forget about, but being required to be hooked anytime I want to actually use the XBO (know 2 people who had the Kinect for the 360 die on them, so looking beyond very real privacy concerns, what happens if the Kinect breaks but the XBO is fine, do I still need to wait for a Kinect camera replacemend to play my XBO again? Multiple points of potential failure for a game console doesn't sound like a good time to me).
3.) If I want to move/take my XBO somewhere else (I travel a bit for work and other things), having to haul around not just 1 hardware appliance brick with me, but essentially 3 hardware bricks (XBO, Kinect, PSU).
4.) Having MS in my house all the time with their camera/mics, knowing that they are willing accomplices in dismantling the rights of U.S. citizens on every level.
5.) Kinect being built for advertising.
6.) Microsoft's clear lack of a cohesive management team, the man heading the XBOX division walking out the door in the heat of battle only to be replaced by someone with little or no experience when it comes to gaming, especially in light of her "fixing" Windows 8 by creating a Start Button in Windows 8.1 that just takes you back to the Metro Screen that people had the problem with in the first place.
1.) $100 price increase due to a forced accessory I don't want.
2.) Forced accessory not being something I can choose to just throw in a closet and forget about, but being required to be hooked anytime I want to actually use the XBO (know 2 people who had the Kinect for the 360 die on them, so looking beyond very real privacy concerns, what happens if the Kinect breaks but the XBO is fine, do I still need to wait for a Kinect camera replacemend to play my XBO again? Multiple points of potential failure for a game console doesn't sound like a good time to me).
3.) If I want to move/take my XBO somewhere else (I travel a bit for work and other things), having to haul around not just 1 hardware appliance brick with me, but essentially 3 hardware bricks (XBO, Kinect, PSU).
4.) Having MS in my house all the time with their camera/mics, knowing that they are willing accomplices in dismantling the rights of U.S. citizens on every level.
5.) Kinect being built for advertising.
6.) Microsoft's clear lack of a cohesive management team, the man heading the XBOX division walking out the door in the heat of battle only to be replaced by someone with little or no experience when it comes to gaming, especially in light of her "fixing" Windows 8 by creating a Start Button in Windows 8.1 that just takes you back to the Metro Screen that people had the problem with in the first place.
TheGreyHulk
Member
these a very minor issues for me. if the light on the controller is too annoying, i'm putting tape over that bitch.
the rest aren't an issue for me. nothing that would force me to buy a competitors system.
the rest aren't an issue for me. nothing that would force me to buy a competitors system.
JustinBbad
Member
The only thing that remotely comes close to being accurately described as a concern is the speed of the Playstation Network.
Bluekaveli
Member
I have no concerns. But the fact that you think Sony will get rid of Trophies is hysterical.
I don't understand the whole "PSN is terrible" thing, I have preferred the XMB to the 360 UI since day one, it's clean, simple, no ads unless you enter the store, and it's fast and simple to use. I've also never had huge issues with download speeds, it is slower than the 360, but not painfully so for me personally. It's also easy to get friends into a game if you know how, never had an issue there, yes, cross game chat would be nice, but the PS4 will have it, so that's one less thing for people to complain about.
BruiserBear
Banned
Yes, which is precisely why I said I was so excited about it in the very first sentence of the thread.
Reading comprehension is not your strongest skill. I never suggested Sony was getting rid of trophies.
Wow, touchy replies. Some of you need to step back and stop being so emotionally invested in companies, critiques are a GOOD THING.
For me, the major worry is PSN download speed like you mentioned. They really need to get that shit straight, even for me it's all over the place. I still remember when I downloaded the MAG beta, it took well over 2 actual days to download and the install would have been insane as well. So in the end I never even tried it. They frequently take forever, though sometimes it's alright.
For me, the major worry is PSN download speed like you mentioned. They really need to get that shit straight, even for me it's all over the place. I still remember when I downloaded the MAG beta, it took well over 2 actual days to download and the install would have been insane as well. So in the end I never even tried it. They frequently take forever, though sometimes it's alright.
"A lot of us have been very excited" isn't exactly "I have been very excited".
It's like me saying "a lot of us have had to die to win this war" when obviously I'm still alive, so I didn't die.
Nitpicking your sentence to be sure, but still, it could be misinterpreted, especially given the dearth of substantial reasoning you were able to come up with to lead you to the "the more I consider all of them, I begin to think the Xbox One might just be the one I buy first" comment.
Seriously, if these are the things you are coming up with as some sort of console purchasing game changers, I can see why people might be skeptical.
Also "Microsoft is constantly looking forward, and always ensures that the basics are done right", yeah, that has had their stakes down on a particular side long before this post was started.
My biggest concern from the PS3 realm is the noise of the fan. My PS3 is too loud. My phat was too loud, and my new slim gets too loud playing TLoU.
I guess this suggests that Sony is not shy of cranking the RPMs of a fan to make the case/cooling slick. The PS4 case is beautifully designed to me, but there are probably a lot of heat pipes and one central blower fan. I hope it's huge and has a low maximum RPM requirement.
I bet the Xbone is very quiet, hence the large case and probably giant fan. It's made to be on constantly.
I guess this suggests that Sony is not shy of cranking the RPMs of a fan to make the case/cooling slick. The PS4 case is beautifully designed to me, but there are probably a lot of heat pipes and one central blower fan. I hope it's huge and has a low maximum RPM requirement.
I bet the Xbone is very quiet, hence the large case and probably giant fan. It's made to be on constantly.
Ugh, this list of "concerns" is more of a PS3 complaints. What's next? Concerns about the OS updates since the PS3 still has the XMB it launched with?
Since February they have been saying they want no barriers between you and starting to play and have given loads of examples of it. I don't recall ever being able to choose what to download first, multiplayer or single player, and yet that's an option.
The only real concern is the degradation of the Playstation + offerings. Since multiplayer is now a part of it I imagine loads of people will subscribe to it by default. They have no incentive to keep the same quality of the current offering in order to seduce people to subscribe.
Since February they have been saying they want no barriers between you and starting to play and have given loads of examples of it. I don't recall ever being able to choose what to download first, multiplayer or single player, and yet that's an option.
The only real concern is the degradation of the Playstation + offerings. Since multiplayer is now a part of it I imagine loads of people will subscribe to it by default. They have no incentive to keep the same quality of the current offering in order to seduce people to subscribe.
nephilimdj
Member
never had a speed issue on vita, think lowest I have had is like 300kb/s
Wickerbasket
Member
The only one that's really an issue for me concerning the PS3 is the slow download speeds; the speeds I'm getting on PSN really aren't acceptable when compared to other services like Steam and Origin.
Hopefully the rectify this for the next generation.
Hopefully the rectify this for the next generation.
LAN vs WIFI-G Speeds? It surely does for me.
Steve McQueen
Member
Right on.
AgentChris
Member
My main concern is where I'm going to store all those PS4 game cases.
BruiserBear
Banned
But it wasn't just the excited comment. I went further than that.
Real Xbox fanboys don't say stuff like that. I pointed out the 3 biggest reasons so many of us are excited about the PS4. Some people just need to chill out with this stuff. It's a little crazy. Call my PS4 concerns nitpicks all day long, but suggesting I'm an Xbox fanboy. lolz
At the end of the day games are going to make this decision for me, but even then, I'm only talking about the console I buy this fall. I am certain I will end up owning both, as I generally buy just about every console.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
All of these concerns are exremely minor to me.
I agree that the PSN store was better before, but it's something that can be fixed, and it's also not a big deal.
I agree that the PSN store was better before, but it's something that can be fixed, and it's also not a big deal.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I use the same ethernet cable for 360 and PS3, depending on which I want to play. Shit is fast on hell on 360, slooooooooooow as fuck on PS3.
You want me to pay for online, fix that infrastructure, Sony. Maybe get a Cloud of your own.
Glorified G
Member
I can vouch for that. People are being way too sensitive. These problems are not major. But still annoying none the less. And bringing it up doesn't automatically make you a fanboy or a ms shill.
Natureboy99
Banned
I see that tc is a 'glass is 1/100 empty' kind of guy.
nhlducks35
Member
Why PSN sucks right now on the PS3 (I know Vita is improved)
No Cross game chat
Download speeds slow as hell
You have to install games after downloading
Store slow as shit
Only way you know if something released is the small ass ticker in the top right
In game XMB is slow as shit
Slow loading times (Games and XMB)
I'm sure 90% of this should be fixed for the PS4.
No Cross game chat
Download speeds slow as hell
You have to install games after downloading
Store slow as shit
Only way you know if something released is the small ass ticker in the top right
In game XMB is slow as shit
Slow loading times (Games and XMB)
I'm sure 90% of this should be fixed for the PS4.