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Nintendo's home strategy – rebuilding the collapsed Nintendo home console business

Aeonin

Member
I'd rather they just make the Wii even smaller, go back to Gamecube sized disks - package it with four Wiimotes - and call it the Wii 4.

Everyone who has a Wii has a Wii 4.

But if you have a Wii 4, you don't necessarily have a Wii (downloaded games still work of course). Forward compatibility.

Value Propositon Tradeoff - HD output (hardcoded all Wii games to HD res, like in-console emulator enhancements).

Revamp the entire OS.

Focus on the market for people who are craving real good 4-player games.
 

Riki

Member
I'd rather they just make the Wii even smaller, go back to Gamecube sized disks - package it with four Wiimotes - and call it the Wii 4.

Everyone who has a Wii has a Wii 4.

But if you have a Wii 4, you don't necessarily have a Wii (downloaded games still work of course). Forward compatibility.

Value Propositon Tradeoff - HD output (hardcoded all Wii games to HD res, like in-console emulator enhancements).

Revamp the entire OS.

Focus on the market for people who are craving real good 4-player games.

This would make a really good $99 off shoot, but not a good main home console.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I couldn't see a system like that taking off. It looks like a cheapo system from a company that can no longer compete with the big boys.

I think Nintendo's best bet moving forward is a handheld that can connect to a TV. A hybrid system. But not until they've let the 3DS enjoy it's life, and the U run it's course.
 

neo-berserk

Neo Member
Nintendo needs to get rid of gimmicky motion controls and tablet touchscreens. They need a simple controller to control a console. Like the Wii U Pro controller as the main one for the console.

But they would never do that.

I think it will be a wise idea,like the other way around;normal console(with more power) with standard controler with the option to buy the gamepad.I miss the day of the nes when
Ninty don't force you to have a gimmick controler.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Props to the OP for the effort. You put together a very nice presentation of your ideas that is easy to follow and we'll constructed. I feel there are a few pitfalls they could run into on this path that make it not the "best" solution IMO, but I have no stats or facts to back that up.
 

cafemomo

Member
I just want something that plays games mang. Not all that TV apple nonsense.

Just give me a cheap affordable but capable home console Nintendo.
 

jwhit28

Member
How about a home strategy of making games for the console you already released for at least 4 more years? Game & Wario and NSMBU DLC for a span of 10 months won't cut it.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
I think Nintendo's best bet moving forward is a handheld that can connect to a TV. A hybrid system. But not until they've let the 3DS enjoy it's life, and the U run it's course.

Agreed. Just pack the next portable with a little wireless box tha can steam games to the tv like the Apple TV can hook up the iPad.

If be all over that. I'd love to play my 3ds games on the big screen when home.
 

Mithos

Member
I think Nintendo's best bet moving forward is a handheld that can connect to a TV. A hybrid system. But not until they've let the 3DS enjoy it's life, and the U run it's course.

Wouldn't that mean we yet again get a "PS360" generation from Nintendo?
 

Row

Banned
So, any reason to think Nintendo won't just make their next handheld capable as a console as well?

Given probable tech advancement, by the time their next handheld is released the graphics potential would likely be as good as a Wii U which is good enough for their purposes. You can use the handheld like you normally would, but there's also the option of attaching it to your TV like a console. You can control the games via the handheld itself, or with supported devices.

I don't see a downside.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
What did your work at Club Nintendo consist in?

Giving tips out at Nintendo Hotline, writing for Nintendo Magazine, hosting Starwing Weekends / Pokemon giveaways and other in-store promos, trying out new games proposed for PAL release, dream job for a student really.


There are two issues I see with the OP plan.

1. Nintendo's system software currently isn't at a high enough standard at all. The UI is pretty understandable, but it's simply too slow. Other aspects of their software is not nearly good enough or not yet available. Downloads and installations are too slow and we've yet to see a unified account system. Nintendo needs to dramatically step up their game in this area if they're going to succeed with the OP's envisioned plan.

The first point hits the nail into the head. Failing in OS and services will be Nintendo's ultimate downfall, if anything is.

Previous consoles can be considered 'feature consoles', just like we had 'feature phones'. The new consoles are 'smart consoles' with an advanced operating system, well laid out API, cloud infrastructure, ecosystem etc. — all the things Nintendo is not good in, at all. Hell, even simple things like modern memory management, packet loss and basics like that seem to be giving them grief.

If Nintendo is to stay in the console race with the big boys they have two options for OS. Either they can adopt someone else's operating system, UI and ecosystem (think Nokia / Windows Phone), or alternatively they can acquire companies that have this knowledge and build their own proprietary OS, UI and ecosystem (think Blackberry / QNX + TAT). Nintendo growing capabilities for OS, UI and service development organically in-house looks pretty damn unlikely.

Same applies to hardware. The complexity of modern APU/SOC development in the leagues of PS4/Xbox One is so high that they simply do not have the manpower or competence for it. As an example, witness how long Microsoft took to release proper drivers for Xbox One APU. And with Microsoft we are talking about guys who invented and wrote Direct X - it's not a walk in a park for them either.

The truth is that should Nintendo wish to compete with Xbox and PlayStation they need to do some unprecedented mega moves - using off the shelf chipsets and OS, or making bic M&A deals.
 

xk0sm0sx

Member
Man I think OP makes a very sound argument there.

If anyone can pull off a small box gaming console it would be Nintendo.
They are really good at putting fun little things in their own OS.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Wouldn't that mean we yet again get a "PS360" generation from Nintendo?

So. Most of their franchises really don't need cutting age graphics given their cartoony graphic styles.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Wouldn't that mean we yet again get a "PS360" generation from Nintendo?

Not necessarily. They could make a hybrid system where the handheld is fully compatible with the console, but the console is more powerful. My idea is very similar to Chittachong's except it includes all console and handheld games be fully compatible with each other. The console would be able to display the games at a higher resolution and would be roughly the same price as the handheld. The handheld would have to ditch the dual screen set up and stick with one analog stick if the remote and nun-chuck are the primary control method on the console. The other option is to put the second analog stick in the handheld and bundle a traditional controller with the console. In this case the remote would mainly be used for navigating the OS and other multimedia functions. Some games would also remain exclusive if a designer chose to use the remote or touch screen for controls, but for most games, they would be fully playable on both systems.
 

Snakeyes

Member
Same applies to hardware. The complexity of modern APU/SOC development in the leagues of PS4/Xbox One is so high that they simply do not have the manpower or competence for it. As an example, witness how long Microsoft took to release proper drivers for Xbox One APU. And with Microsoft we are talking about guys who invented and wrote Direct X - it's not a walk in a park for them either.
What's so complex about it?

I also wouldn't use anything Xbox One-related as an example of competent management. Of course, it's not like the team behind Wii U is any better.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Updated OP with an approximation of the kind of a gaming experience this hardware could deliver:

"Nintendo TV" gaming catalog

Using a quad core ARM SOC processor, I have selected games from current Nintendo and iPad catalogs to illustrate the level of gaming experience possible with this new miniature system. While big 3D epics are less feasible, a lot of Nintendo's current catalog would scale to hardware less potent than Wii U.

S7KSHcb.jpg
 
It says a lot about Nintendo's abysmal first party output that a couple games made for Wii U could easily be put out on such a system and I believe it to actually be possible. Also, considering this bullet point list:

Radically low price point, impulse purchase at - $99 or $149
Bundled with intuitive Wiimote motion controls
Designed to play lighter, less development intensive games
Made to benefit of Nintendo's huge back library
No physical media to minimise retail dependency
A range of single-franchise accessories
Basic media partnerships e.g. Netflix

Other than price (which will probably be $250 soon I think which is still impulse purchase territory IMO), the Wii U fits that bill already.
 
I feel like, if they were going to do this, the best option would be to rebrand the wii u, remove the tablet and disc drive to get the price down, and include a Wii remote.

Maybe redesign the MCM into a single SoC to reduce production costs
 

Sean*O

Member
If they are to scrap the U and build something else there is no reason they couldn't take 2nd place from MS by putting together a simpler system with comparable power to the xbone using off the shelf parts.

They sold a zillion wiis and people want them to roll over and die because the U is a flop, its pretty silly.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
The first point hits the nail into the head. Failing in OS and services will be Nintendo's ultimate downfall, if anything is.

Previous consoles can be considered 'feature consoles', just like we had 'feature phones'. The new consoles are 'smart consoles' with an advanced operating system, well laid out API, cloud infrastructure, ecosystem etc. — all the things Nintendo is not good in, at all. Hell, even simple things like modern memory management, packet loss and basics like that seem to be giving them grief.

If Nintendo is to stay in the console race with the big boys they have two options for OS. Either they can adopt someone else's operating system, UI and ecosystem (think Nokia / Windows Phone), or alternatively they can acquire companies that have this knowledge and build their own proprietary OS, UI and ecosystem (think Blackberry / QNX + TAT). Nintendo growing capabilities for OS, UI and service development organically in-house looks pretty damn unlikely.

Same applies to hardware. The complexity of modern APU/SOC development in the leagues of PS4/Xbox One is so high that they simply do not have the manpower or competence for it. As an example, witness how long Microsoft took to release proper drivers for Xbox One APU. And with Microsoft we are talking about guys who invented and wrote Direct X - it's not a walk in a park for them either.

The truth is that should Nintendo wish to compete with Xbox and PlayStation they need to do some unprecedented mega moves - using off the shelf chipsets and OS, or making bic M&A deals.

I think we've seen that Nintendo can't get it done. Acquiring someone is probably a really good idea (worked for Google with Android) but I don't know if there's any good guys out there to grab.

Another option is to spend the big bucks, lure experienced product developer super stars and build a studio around them, giving them a mandate with a fairly long leash. If I were them I'd hire ex-Apple VP iOS Software Scott Forstall to do this or at least someone of that calibre. A lot of people really respected Palm WebOS and HP threw that away and laid off hundreds of developers. Maybe try to grab some of the top people from that team.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
I think we've seen that Nintendo can't get it done. Acquiring someone is probably a really good idea (worked for Google with Android) but I don't know if there's any good guys out there to grab.

Another option is to spend the big bucks, lure experienced product developer super stars and build a studio around them, giving them a mandate with a fairly long leash. If I were them I'd hire ex-Apple VP iOS Software Scott Forstall to do this or at least someone of that calibre. A lot of people really respected Palm WebOS and HP threw that away and laid off hundreds of developers. Maybe try to grab some of the top people from that team.

There are some teams out there - Jolla, Firefox and Ubuntu would be the likeliest candidates from the top of my mind. Or in a year's time they could go to Blackberry firesale and acquire their OS and service teams. That could be a way to gain a credible level of competence. Scott Forstall is also a good idea, although like the case was with J Allard, he might be too loaded to bother with another uphill battle
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
I feel like, if they were going to do this, the best option would be to rebrand the wii u, remove the tablet and disc drive to get the price down, and include a Wii remote.

Maybe redesign the MCM into a single SoC to reduce production costs

The Wii U's best avenue is to turn it into a 3DS port box imo. I don't think there's a lot that can be done to save it at this point. What you're talking about is massive re-branding and at that point, they might as well just launch the new systems with proper hardware.
 

Elija2

Member
I think by the time this generation ends and the next one begins most people will already have a TV box solution whether it's hardware like Apple TV or built-into their new TVs, so not many people would have a reason to buy this for anything other than gaming. I do think that Nintendo should keep their next console much cheaper than the competition, but focusing too much on the casual market yet again probably isn't a good idea.
 
Personally, I think the Wii U is pretty much there in everything except price and there's only so much Nintendo can do about that given the tech involved.

I really think Nintendo's next device will be a HD handheld that can push to the TV. Their brand is so much stronger there and the growth potential in the mobile space is really hard to deny.

The failure of the gamecube started Nintendo on a different path in the console world - a path reinforced by both the success of the Wii and the current problems with the Wii U. I think we'll another Nintendo console but who knows what it will look like.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
You definitely spent a decent amount of time making that post TC, so for that I applaud you.

However, I don't think the idea would really work. Considering how Apple TVs have only sold 13 million in the past 6 years, I'm not sure that market is really big enough to actually be worth it. I guess your idea is that Nintendo would make this bigger, but considering the companies with much bigger budgets in this field have been unable to do so, I just don't think it would happen. The thing that holds the Apple TV, Roku, and Google TV back is definitely not the games, but the TV content. It's incredibly hard to negotiate with the TV content providers and to get their shows, etc. on your box. Considering Nintendo is having trouble interacting with game 3rd parties, TV content providers will be only harder. It's an interesting concept, but I just don't think it would work, and the amount of money creating on that scale is still far far less than what Nintendo makes now imo. Microsoft is also heavily investing in TV for the Xbox One, and I really suspect they'll release a cheaper box going for exactly the market you're mentioning. Considering the pockets that Microsoft has, I would think competing against a cheap Xbox media device would be extremely hard, in addition to the current competitors in that market.
 
The Wii U's best avenue is to turn it into a 3DS port box imo. I don't think there's a lot that can be done to save it at this point. What you're talking about is massive re-branding and at that point, they might as well just launch the new systems with proper hardware.

developing new hardware costs money, not to mention lost dev time having to transition to another console, they're probably better off trying to salvage what they can of the Wii U, and doing a proper launch next gen.

Dropping the gamepad and disc drive would easily get them under $200, maybe even $150, which puts them in much more of a mass market price range
 

Krisp

Neo Member
I'm sorry but everything you said seems to be what Nintendo has been trying to do until you got to the Nintendo TV.

While interesting, I don't see how it differs from what they would like to do with Wii U. You've created a cheaper option when they already aim to be the cheaper option, asked them to compete with what the Xbox One wants to do and completely forgotten that all of this requires a lot of corporate deals with mostly American countries, a place where Microsoft with it's larger budget would dominate compared to the revenue stream that Nintendo makes...primarily off their soft ware. I don't think switching to 15$ games would help them there though I do think they should break free from where the industry is heading with all games requiring a near uniform 60$ price tag and stretched content to make it seem like it's totally worth more than 30$.

Nintendo hit it big with their games, I think the answer for them is to break away from the full media center console that Sony and Microsoft are trying to create; which, honestly I don't see how you're Nintendo TV idea takes them away from Sony and Microsoft as competition, in fact it adds in apple. What I would like to see them do is make an array of games, multiple genres, multiple IPs and stop blurring one Mario game from the next.

They should focus on 3rd party support since they can't carry this system themself and what they've done with Sega is what they should consider the beginning. Funding Bayonetta 2 and getting 3 unique and exclusive Sonic games to boot should be giving them some ideas. Look to Capcom, Atlus, Konami, Namco. Start funding existing IPs and striking deals for exclusives. Make a gaming system about the games again and make innovation in games about making something unseen before. None of this half-step idiocy from Game cube->Wii->WiiU.

Doesn't mean they can't integrate your ideas for this Nintedo TV...but it seems like they're already trying to. A cheaper price point for less interesting games won't bode well with their target audience and their not exactly a household name as a media mogul. They had their chance at E3 to salvage the Wii U and put all their chips on things we've seen a thousand times over, just because it worked ten times doesn't mean it'll work another ten times. People thought there would be something new, after a while they realized there wasn't.

I was calling the failure of the Wii U after the release of brawl, they went in too deep with the Wii and didn't learn anything from it. Seeing how they salvaged the 3DS gives me hope though, they just need to furnish it with interesting titles and make a home for the cool, off-beat and risky games paired with existing, successful IPs and not compete with the AAA. I honestly think they're going to blur together and Microsoft and Sony will eventually do more damage to eachother, making way for something new...hopefully Nintendo can figure out a way to revolutionize gaming in a non-control direction or else that something new will be Apple and that innovation will be loaded with freemium games. /rant
 
Very nice OP, I really enjoyed the read and the ideas, Nintendo should rehire you :).

I doubt anything like this will happen, Nintendo will continue to plod along with WiiU, the systems will eventually price drop, the big name system selling games will come and word will slowly spread to the usual Nintendo fans, all the while they have 3DS and it's software selling very nicely.

I honestly think Nintendo will be content with 20 million WiiU sales over the generation along with maybe 80 million 3DS consoles and of course all the software.

Their shrinking market share will not change until they again compete power wise with Sony and MS and offer a console which is capable of running the latest third party engines with some kind of parity as well as all their famous franchises.

The vast majority of consumers will not spend $300 on a console which is basically restricted to first party games, Sony and MS would fail doing the exact same thing.
 
I agree about the core competencies and the major points they should focus on with their design (with the exception of being disc-less).

Although interesting, I disagree with the product conclusion you've arrived at, at least in terms of trying to emulate Apple/Google. EDIT: on re-reading the proposition, I don't fully disagree; my main contention is the lack of physical media and that I don't really think people want "gaming apps" on their TV.

Instead of trying to compete in the realm of Apple and Google - something that frankly they're woefully ill-equipped to do - they should simply aim to bring a traditional home console aimed at families, the pricing models you've put forward are probably good (not sure about software and software margins). I think there is a market for such a product and they could have tapped into it had they not tried to go everywhere at once with the Wii U.
 

DrZeus

Member
Very reasonable and well constructed OP. As someone interested in buying an Ouya for it's media capabilities(and not for gaming), I would be sold in a minute on this device. Alot of people have been throwing out some idea of a hybrid souped up handheld that would double as a streaming device to your tv for the console experience.

I am sold on that as well. In all honestly though, Ninty is just a nice price drop and the 2014 games(maybe ambassador program) away from turning this thing around. And by turning it around, I mean attaining Gamecube level success. I'd be happy with either of the 3 at this point.
 

NewGame

Banned
IMO if Nintendo just released more games, even just all the VC titles, the WiiU would be saved.

Alas people and their ports/netflicks.
 
OP, your idea is terrible because it has Nintendo relying on lightweight games and fading nostalgia.

And it's terrible for gamers, and especially Nintendo fans, because we want new, deep gameplay experiences, not snacksized bites of "fun."

The gaming industry NEEDS an entity like Nintendo that HAS to keep thinking of new and fun ways to innovate in order to survive. Your idea would take them down the path of relying on a back catalogue of old games and simplistic new games. It may work for short term profit, but in the end we'll all be poorer for it.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
OP, your idea is terrible because it has Nintendo relying on lightweight games and fading nostalgia.

And it's terrible for gamers, and especially Nintendo fans, because we want new, deep gameplay experiences, not snacksized bites of "fun."

The gaming industry NEEDS an entity like Nintendo that HAS to keep thinking of new and fun ways to innovate in order to survive. Your idea would take them down the path of relying on a back catalogue of old games and simplistic new games. It may work for short term profit, but in the end we'll all be poorer for it.

One thing kind of being missed about the overall idea in the OP is it is about Nintendo detaching themselves from the expectations set by the bloody, high dollar conflict surrounding the 'hardcore' game consoles. The problem Nintendo has even now is that they're seen as being "required" to compete directly with MS, Sony, and western 3rd parties making 100 million dollar games. Nintendo's efforts, large or small scale, tend to be framed as "cheap" and "lacking".

Ironically, what some people seem to want from Nintendo would undercut what they're good at. "Make real mature games like GTA and The Last of Us! Where are the production values we deserve! Get with the times and spend lots of money!" All this will do is force Nintendo to become more conservative. Not experiment. Not innovate, the same way everybody else is constrained by scale and investment.

I wouldn't quite go with the OP's recommendation for Nintendo to make a piece of hardware weaker than the Wii U, or PS3, or 360. But I kinda think they need to be in a place where they're allowed to make their kind of AAA games, on their scale of production. By the same token Nintendo also, frankly, needs to be free of the constant bitching when they make games which are not supposed to be wildly innovative, but serve a purpose of satisfying a particular customer. The reason they make a NSMB game for every piece of hardware is because people want it, in the same way they keep making Pokemon games for each generation.
 

jmizzal

Member
Nintendo 1st party games can still sale at a price point of $39.99 to $59.99 so it wouldnt make any sense for them to drop their prices that low.
 

v1oz

Member
To the OP

The Wii U hardware can already do most of those things you mentioned above and with software updates it could do everything you mention. It's small and has all the right hardware to be set top box like Apple TV etc. It could also be sold for £99 and bundled with Wii motes. It already has an App Store for cheap games as well.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Interesting read. I think it could work due to them not focusing so much on production values, it'll let them create more.
 
I couldn't see a system like that taking off. It looks like a cheapo system from a company that can no longer compete with the big boys.

I think Nintendo's best bet moving forward is a handheld that can connect to a TV. A hybrid system. But not until they've let the 3DS enjoy it's life, and the U run it's course.


I've been thinking about this type of system for a while, mainly due to threads like this one. Here's my proposal:



- Size of a 3DS XL, but slightly thicker to accommodate second set of triggers (either uniformly thicker, or a "lip" near the top) and a second circle pad.

- Uses technology similar to the Wii U to project the top screen image to an HDMI dongle.

- Can sync up with other wireless Nintendo controllers, such as the pro controller, for multiplayer. (don't want to lose Nintendo's local multiplayer titles, after all) Its motion controller option is redesigned top use a magnetometer to recalibrate rather than a sensor bar.
 

superbank

The definition of front-butt.
I agree Nintendo theoretically has the best pitch for a set-top box. I don't think they would do it though.

I'm holding out hope for the hybrid handheld/home console. Can you imagine? Buy one console for all Nintendo games. The main console is portable but it also comes with a unit for the TV that receives streamed content wirelessly.
 
I personally would prefer to see Nintendo's AAA big budget games coming in the next few years, with Smash, Mario Kart 8 and Zelda U. Regardless of how bad the Wii U will be selling for it's 4-5 year mission, Nintendo is going to release great games for it. A TV Box would be neat maybe for a very short time, but I think it would fall into so many other Boxes that do the same thing just without Nintendo games.

When Nintendo released the Wii Remote it shocked and shook the gaming world by surprise and the potential seemed huge. They need to be able to at least surprise again without confusing everyone like they did with Wii U.

Release an innovative console that no one else thought of or is doing, make it easy to understand and sell at mass market prices. Win Win.
 
At a price like that, I think I'd buy it. I mean we'd still get smash bros and all that, so it sounds great. Maybe that smash bros won't have graphics quite as good as the Wii U one, but who cares. On the other hand, PS360 power should be pretty cheap these days.
 

daninthemix

Member
If home console hardware is no longer profitable to them, they should just do a Sega and develop for the other two (and PC please!).

Unless of course that would affect the exclusivity of titles on their successful handheld business...which it would.

Dang, it's a tricky one.
 

Turrican3

Member
Edit: for those who would reject the idea of Nintendo turning into a "cheap game" company, remember that Nintendo's scale of development can still make games like Fire Emblem profitable without having to sell millions of copies.
As I haven't seen FE I can't really comment on this specific game's scale.

The only thing I care for (this also refers to your latest post without quoting it) is a Nintendo that keeps producing their Mario Galaxies, too. 100 million dollar games are out of question for them I believe, and rightfully so I'd add: too risky.
They'd probably spend more on aggressive marketing, but that's all.

Problem is, I'm not sure Nintendo wants to settle selling Mario Galaxy-type games for just $15 (smaller, NSMB-like games are probably doable though)

But if they somehow manage to do that, well who knows, it might work. :)
 
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