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[chaosblade]

I just find it kind of funny, because the whole suggestion is basically saying Nintendo should do exactly what people are saying MS is wrong for doing (the focus on "entertainment" instead of games).

Whether or not it's a good idea, I dunno. But I like the thought and effort a lot more than pretty much every other idea for Nintendo I've seen.

 

[Randdalf]

I disagree with your first assumption

Wii U is largely unsalvageable as Nintendo's first party efforts don't alone carry it and everyone from devs to retailers are dropping support.

Nintendo has released only three major first party games (New Super Mario Bros U, Nintendoland, Pikmin 3). If anything, I'd say it's the lack of first party heavy hitters that is part of the problem. I think it would be wise to wait until after the upcoming holiday season before this assumption could be valid, as Nintendo is releasing more large first party offerings between now and then. As an extension to this, I still don't believe they need to go into full panic mode just yet, a good holiday could turn this console's fortunes around.

 

[Nikodemos]

The biggest problem with going full digital is that absolutely no dedicated entertainment retailer will accept selling the thing. Or, if they'll go for it initially, they could very well sabotage it later on, like they did with the PSPGo. Since Ninty doesn't have dedicated brand stores like Sony, they'll have to sell it through general retailers, which is worse. A general retailer will pull your product off its shelves the moment sales hit a slump (see the UK). It will be a pretty brutal slog for Ninty.

 

[amnesiac]

Nintendo needs to get rid of gimmicky motion controls and tablet touchscreens. They need a simple controller to control a console. Like the Wii U Pro controller as the main one for the console.

But they would never do that.

 

[Randdalf]

Nintendo needs to get rid of gimmicky motion controls and tablet touchscreens. They need to design a controller. A simple controller.

But they won't.

They have, the Pro controller.

 

[amnesiac]

They have, the Pro controller.

Yeah, but I meant as the main controller.

 

[chaosblade]

I disagree with your first assumption



Nintendo has released only three major first party games (New Super Mario Bros U, Nintendoland, Pikmin 3). If anything, I'd say it's the lack of first party heavy hitters that is part of the problem. I think it would be wise to wait until after the upcoming holiday season before this assumption could be valid, as Nintendo is releasing more large first party offerings between now and then. As an extension to this, I still don't believe they need to go into full panic mode just yet, a good holiday could turn this console's fortunes around.

Nintendo's first party efforts couldn't carry the Gamecube, and the WiiU will probably receive even worse third party support. Nintendo can sell to Nintendo fans, but that's not enough.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Nice post but here is the real problem. The Nintendo generation are in their 30's, 40's and 50's. The Wii took off not because it was a great game system but because it was a fad and you can't build on a fad once it's over.

Nintendo can still salvage the Wii U if they drop the LCD pad and drop the price $100. Devs will not develop for that game pad anyway at this point. Nintendo needs to ask some serious questions about itself. It either needs to be all in or go third party.

Sums up my thoughts. Screw waggle and screw gimmicks. Either go all in and build a console on par with the other consoles out there while at the same time actually improving your relationship with 3rd parties or go third party. I think most gamers are tired of the lip service and tired of the gimmicks and that's why their hurting somewhat. It's going to get worse too if Nintendo doesn't get their pride in check and actually get off their asses and do something instead of sticking their heads in the sand.

This comes from someone that loves Nintendo too. I may not show it but I do. They have some of the best damn IPs on the planet and some of the best game designers on the planet.

 

[Reg]

Nintendo games combined with indie games seems like a good mix. It doesn't seem like the 3 big publishers want anything to do with Nintendo.

 

[remnant]

You guys are way to concerned about this shit

 

[outunderthestars]

I would seriously love a $99 Nintendo device that allows me to stream HD content, play old school games, and has the occasional indie or modern 1st party title.

They could bring back the Nintendo Entertainment System name as well.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Nintendo's first party efforts couldn't carry the Gamecube, and the WiiU will probably receive even worse third party support. Nintendo can sell to Nintendo fans, but that's not enough.

Nintendo is in a completely different place than they were coming into gen 6. People like to discount the Wii's massive install base as just fly-by-night casuals, but many were experiencing Nintendo's IP's for the first time and became new fans. They may not have the brand loyalty of the hardcore Nintendo fans, but the Wii U's first party lull is going to be a lot stronger than the Gamecube's was to them, once the big titles start rolling in.

 

[Busaiku]

1. Wii U is largely unsalvageable as Nintendo's first party efforts don't alone carry it and everyone from devs to retailers are dropping support.

There is no way anyone can say this now.
There are only 5 games from Nintendo that are currently out, and they were spaced out very horribly.

 

[jmls1121]

That sounds kinda terrible for gamers. I'd rather they focus on making the Wii U not suck shit. So much for that summer update to speed up the OS huh?

Is summer over?!

 

[Starfish Hero]

Is summer over?!

It was postponed to early fall. Judging by the comment I'm not sure if Mileena knew that, but yea.

 

[jmls1121]

Nintendo is in a completely different place than they were coming into gen 6. People like to discount the Wii's massive install base as just fly-by-night casuals, but many were experiencing Nintendo's IP's for the first time and became new fans. They may not have the brand loyalty of the hardcore Nintendo fans, but the Wii U's first party lull is going to be a lot stronger than the Gamecube's was to them, once the big titles start rolling in.

It is one of the worst arguments I see around these parts...almost no one but "casuals" bought the Wii, and NONE of them would ever have interest in the Wii U.

No one is going to have interest in any gaming system until there are actual games released for said system.

 

[K' Dash]

I really like thw WiiU pad

I can only hope Sony can come up with something similar that doesn't involve buying a PS Vita.

 

[MercuryLS]

I would buy the shit out of something like this. Seriously.

 

[MarkusRJR]

I still think if Nintendo wants to not compete with Sony and MS, they need to be at a different price point. Having less third party games, worse hardware, and an iffy OS/app ecosystem for really close prices to their competition isn't a good situation to be in. I think they should focus on making their hardware way more affordable (think $150 or $200) and focus on making their system's games priced at $40 or $50. Make it super indie friendly, support third parties that want to hop in (after the Wii U I doubt many will want to), and make an actual account system for fuck sake.

As a Nintendo fan though, I want them to actually compete with Sony/MS but I can see how they don't have the ability to do so.

 

[chaosblade]

Nintendo is in a completely different place than they were coming into gen 6. People like to discount the Wii's massive install base as just fly-by-night casuals, but many were experiencing Nintendo's IP's for the first time and became new fans. They may not have the brand loyalty of the hardcore Nintendo fans, but the Wii U's first party lull is going to be a lot stronger than the Gamecube's was to them, once the big titles start rolling in.

At the same time, with the exception of the Wii, Nintendo's home console hardware sales have been in perpetual decline despite the industry growing. So they've been "losing fans" since the NES. I can't really see their first party games bringing most of those Wii owners back. A substantial amount, maybe. But still not enough to drive the system to success.

But who knows, maybe Nintendo's partnerships will bring interesting exclusives to the table and turn things around. Right now that's their best bet.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I disagree with your first assumption



Nintendo has released only three major first party games (New Super Mario Bros U, Nintendoland, Pikmin 3). If anything, I'd say it's the lack of first party heavy hitters that is part of the problem. I think it would be wise to wait until after the upcoming holiday season before this assumption could be valid, as Nintendo is releasing more large first party offerings between now and then. As an extension to this, I still don't believe they need to go into full panic mode just yet, a good holiday could turn this console's fortunes around.

I really love this line of thinking, but while I see sales improving with Mario Kart, I can't see gamers ignoring Grand Theft Auto V on their console of choice for a Wii U and Mario 3D Land without the 3D Effect.

 

[steveovig]

Don't like this idea at all. It would de-value Nintendo and it's franchises. People don't take them seriously now, how about when they release some shitty $99 really underpowered console? They just need to be more aggressive and start catching up fast next console. The main reason the U has bombed so bad is because it has no games. I'm not saying it would be selling huge if it did have games but it would sure be selling more than now.

 

[The Horror the horror]

You guys are way to concerned about this shit

Awesome contribution. Why pounce into the thread if you don't care?

 

[Yoshi]

I'm a huge Nintendo fan and own all Nintendo consoles, since the GameCube I have bought every console, since the GBC every handheld on launch day. If Nintendo went your route, I'd not follow them. I don't want a download-only console, I will not buy any games that I don't get on a physical medium at any price more than 0,00€. Yes, 0,01€ is too much. Also I don't want them to devalue their own games. If they lose loyal consumers like me, they have to radically expand their reach to other audiences, for me, a Nintendo going your way might as well be bankrupt.

 

[Schnozberry]

I really love this line of thinking, but while I see sales improving with Mario Kart, I can't see gamers ignoring Grand Theft Auto V on their console of choice for a Wii U and Mario 3D Land without the 3D Effect.

I could see a lot of people doing both if the Wii U price is right. Especially gamers with kids.

 

[outunderthestars]

Don't like this idea at all. It would de-value Nintendo and it's franchises. People don't take them seriously now, how about when they release some shitty $99 really underpowered console? They just need to be more aggressive and start catching up fast next console. The main reason the U has bombed so bad is because it has no games. I'm not saying it would be selling huge if it did have games but it would sure be selling more than now.

so a shitty $300 really underpowered console is the answer?

People clearly are not willing to buy a $300 - $350 Nintendo console. I would argue that a dead paltform that is performing so poorly that retailers are shipping them back devalues the brand much more than a truly mass market product would.

 

[MercuryLS]

The main reason is that PowerPC is an architectural dead end. Reducing it would actually prove very costly and probably impossible (which is why Apple went Intel). Compare this to a situation where Nintendo can take pretty much an off the shelf octo-core ARM SOC with Open GL graphics support and media functionality for a few quid. Going with IBM and AMD was such a colossally bad decision it just blows my mind.

I think iPad level of power is all Nintendo needs to do compelling games at home.

Agree, 100%. They don't need bleeding edge hardware. Just something that can do strong 3D at 1080p. If they were to do something like this, it would be in a few years and the SOC's will be even better for the same low price.

 

[tassletine]

Your premise is flawed because you describe the WiiU as unsalvageable, when in fact it's not demonstrably different from (some) other profitable consoles around this time in their life cycle.

It also forgets that Nintendo are a games company and that anything that lowers their value in that market, such as shifting focus to TV won't happen.
What you are asking is that Nintendo basically become a box to hold their own franchises without any sort of distinctive controller. Why would they downgrade their own product to do this?

 

[onipex]

I think your first point that Nintendo's first party games can't carry the Wii U is flawed since most of their first party efforts are missing and the lack of those games is what's hurting the Wii U the most.A price drop along with those games can at least bring it up to Gamecube levels and with will cards like Wii Fit maybe a tad bit more.

Nintendo's first party efforts couldn't carry the Gamecube, and the WiiU will probably receive even worse third party support. Nintendo can sell to Nintendo fans, but that's not enough.

While people look back on the Gamecube fondly now Nintendo's first party games back then outside of Smash and Prime was bashed even by Nintendo fans. People didn't want two riders in Mario Kart, Luigi's Mansion wasn't a hit like today, Mario Sunshine turned many Mario fans off, Zelda looked kiddie, Starfox wasn't all flying all the time, and the list goes on. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed all those games ,but I laugh at all these post that now act like Gamecube Nintendo is what their IPs should be measured by.

There is more positive buzz for Nintendo's upcoming first party lineup than there was for the Gamecube's lineup imho and its clear some of those games have a larger fanbase.Those games still won't save the console on their own unless their is the unlikely event that every Wii Fit owner decides to upgrade. Nintendo still need to drop the price and somehow pull out a good 2014 lineup games to get things moving in a positive direction.

 

[steveovig]

so a shitty $300 really underpowered console is the answer?

People clearly are not willing to buy a $300 - $350 Nintendo console. I would argue that a dead paltform that is performing so poorly that retailers are shipping them back devalues the brand much more than a truly mass market product would.

No, $300 isn't good either, although it may have worked better if they had actually put some thought into it instead of just releasing one major 1st party game for the first 6 months.

I'd say $200-$250 is a good point for this thing, plus a ton of games but we know they are coming (well, so is the price drop).

They certainly made some mistakes designing this thing but they've got to live with it now and do the best they can.

 

[Anth0ny]

i know i know

games.

also, no overpriced gimmicks or outdated tech

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I could see a lot of people doing both if the Wii U price is right. Especially gamers with kids.

Yeah, but I'm thinking moreso around the mindshare. This industry is driven by consumer interaction with one another at this point. Nintendo needs a lot more to get people talking because the lineup of titles hitting other consoles revealed for 2013 is pretty massive (Excluding the PS4 so far.. lol). Plenty of titles in the same league of Mario 3D Land U or larger.

Mario Kart was so needed Spring-Summer 2013 :/

 

[R-User!]

stuff I largely like

Obligatory: "I'd buy that for a dollar!"

Seriously though, it's cheap, and it would work. Simple. I'd buy it with most likely no remorse...

 

[chaosblade]

I think your first point that Nintendo's first party games can't carry the Wii U is flawed since most of their first party efforts are missing and the lack of those games is what's hurting the Wii U the most.A price drop along with those games can at least bring it up to Gamecube levels and with will cards like Wii Fit maybe a tad bit more.


While people look back on the Gamecube fondly now Nintendo's first party games back then outside of Smash and Prime was bashed even by Nintendo fans. People didn't want two riders in Mario Kart, Luigi's Mansion wasn't a hit like today, Mario Sunshine turned many Mario fans off, Zelda looked kiddie, Starfox wasn't all flying all the time, and the list goes on. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed all those games ,but I laugh at all these post that now act like Gamecube Nintendo is what their IPs should be measured by.

There is more positive buzz for Nintendo's upcoming first party lineup than there was for the Gamecube's lineup imho and its clear some of those games have a larger fanbase.Those games still won't save the console on their own unless their is the unlikely event that every Wii Fit owner decides to upgrade. Nintendo still need to drop the price and somehow pull out a good 2014 lineup games to get things moving in a positive direction.

Given this quote I doubt Nintendo or their shareholders would be happy with "Gamecube levels" of success. If they can't do significantly better the WiiU should be considered a failure.

"I do not intend to declare how many Wii we will be selling today, but Wii will be a failure if it cannot sell far more than GameCube did. In fact, we shouldn't continue this business if our only target is to outsell GameCube. Naturally, we are making efforts so that Wii will show a far greater result than GameCube."

Obviously that's in reference to the Wii, but if anything it should only hold more true now given that they are coming off a very successful console that was held back by Nintendo more than anyone else.

Anyway, you are right about the perception of Nintendo's upcoming games, at least for those who are willing to look ahead. Maybe if Nintendo can do what they couldn't for more than a decade and avoid software droughts they can build and keep momentum and sell a moderately successful amount of consoles. But given the broken promises we've seen in the past I don't expect it to be any different with WiiU.

 

[Yoshi]

By the way, I have to correct myself, because I said, Nintendo could as well be dead if they chose to go this route. Actually it's worse than if they were dead, because then probably some other studio would have bought their franchises and some studios off Nintendos corpse and I could get some more retail games in vein of Nintendo's games.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Exactly. All they need to do is go back to the basics.

Cheap handheld + competent home console. Make a genuine effort to rebuild third-party relationships. Invest in new IPs. Done.

This... they need to move forward... not remain stagnant, no offense OP, but i'd rather have Nintendo stepping up to Sony/Microsoft in the tech race than have them make low-fi games in the same vein as IOS stuff.

 

[Schnozberry]

Yeah, but I'm thinking moreso around the mindshare. This industry is driven by consumer interaction with one another at this point. Nintendo needs a lot more to get people talking because the lineup of titles hitting other consoles revealed for 2013 is pretty massive (Excluding the PS4 so far.. lol). Plenty of titles in the same league of Mario 3D Land U or larger.

Mario Kart was so needed Spring-Summer 2013 :/

Nintendo will have a pretty strong Holiday Lineup, all things considered. Nintendo Games are certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but for them it's solid. Mario 3D World was great when I played the demo, as was DK Tropical Freeze. Ubi, WB and Activision are putting out their major titles at least for this cycle, plus you've got Sonic and Zelda. Then it's Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2 right around the corner. I think if you hit a good price point and do some creative stuff with bundling and holiday marketing they can do ok.

 

[Starfish Hero]

At the same time, with the exception of the Wii, Nintendo's home console hardware sales been in perpetual decline despite the industry growing. So they've been "losing fans" since the NES. I can't really see their first party games bringing most of those Wii owners back. A substantial amount, maybe. But still not enough to drive the system to success.

But who knows, maybe Nintendo's partnerships will bring interesting exclusives to the table and turn things around. Right now that's their best bet.

Thinking that the decline will continue just because it looks nice on a graph is, well, dumb. Decline in console sales wasn't so much because of "losing fans", but the building and strengthening of the competition. Wii succeeded because it entered a niche market that the competition was very weak in. Competition is stronger on all fronts, but thanks to the Wii Nintendo fandom is probably bigger than it ever was. Even if many of these fans leave for other consoles or just stop gaming all together, Nintendo's fanbase isn't going to shrink to pre-Wii levels just because. I'm not saying that first party software is going to single-handily make Wii U a success, but because Nintendo's first party IPs are much more popular today than they were ten years ago, Wii U can go a lot further with these titles than the Gamecube could.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I like a lot of the ideas and I think Nintendo should actually move in this direction. Nintendo should stop chasing after 3rd parties that are more interested in developing for high end Xbox/PS systems and instead focus on smaller developers than have seen success in the PC and Mobile space.

There are two issues I see with the OP plan.

1. Nintendo's system software currently isn't at a high enough standard at all. The UI is pretty understandable, but it's simply too slow. Other aspects of their software is not nearly good enough or not yet available. Downloads and installations are too slow and we've yet to see a unified account system. Nintendo needs to dramatically step up their game in this area if they're going to succeed with the OP's envisioned plan.

2. There's a risk that cheap Mobile titles will devalue premium priced Nintendo games. Nintendo has shown a lot of hesitancy toward lowering the price of their products but a lot of the newer small companies that Nintendo would want to attract to this new cheap console have built their business on incredibly cheap or free to play titles. These philosophies could come into conflict and that would have to be addressed.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

sounds like too logical of an idea for nintendo to do.

 

[Canis lupus]

Based on an ARM processor. Plays iPad quality games in 1080P.

No one wants iPad quality games on tv. From your suggestion, the box would be too weak to compete with other consoles, and also too expensive to compete with bluray players and media streaming boxes.

 

[hoos30]

Honestly, they could go third party and sell premium games for $70 a pop for a lot less risk than this.

Great idea though...better than anything Nintendo themselves have thought of in the past three years.

 

[Deku Tree]

Before Nintendo can go entirely digital they need to develop a dedicated account system for digital purchases. No way I am buying this box if all my purchases are tied to one single box.

 

[Yes Boss!]

I have serious doubts that Nintendo could build ever again a technically advanced console and support it with software - the game has grown just too big. The architectural understanding required to pull together something as elegant as PS4 or Xbox One is not something they have demonstrated since GameCube. They seem to be unable to scale up their software teams to support big scale productions, too.

The only other path I can think of is acquiring Oculus Rift. It would create a new style gaming experience that completely sidesteps the competition, and does not require huge productions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoQ0OXJCbaE

Nah, they could pull together something just as advanced or more. They just have to team with the right folks.

Oculus Rift is a terrible idea. It is a single-user experience and totally against everything Nintendo stands for. It is also niche and will not likely go mainstream given its current form-factor (even if acquired by Sony/MS).

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I think this is the only option they have for their next console and while the value prop as outlined in the OP isn't perfect, it's definitely solid and well thought out.

 

[chaosblade]

Thinking that the decline will continue just because it looks nice on a graph is, well, dumb. Decline in console sales wasn't so much because of "losing fans", but the building and strengthening of the competition. Wii succeeded because it entered a niche market that the competition was very weak in. Competition is stronger on all fronts, but thanks to the Wii Nintendo fandom is probably bigger than it ever was. Even if many of these fans leave for other consoles or just stop gaming all together, Nintendo's fanbase isn't going to shrink to pre-Wii levels just because. I'm not saying that first party software is going to single-handily make Wii U a success, but because Nintendo's first party IPs are much more popular today than they were ten years ago, Wii U can go a lot further with these titles than the Gamecube could.

Strengthening competition is exactly what I was referring to, along with Nintendo's platforms becoming less appealing as third party support gradually declined to the point it's at now. I figured that much was obvious. Thus, "losing fans" to other, more appealing platforms (or quitting gaming altogether).

Their competition is the strongest it's ever been and Nintendo, despite coming off a highly successful console, still manages to find themselves in a precarious position where we're talking about how much they're going to surpass the Gamecube by. I think that says a lot about the way the company is run, but that's for another topic.

Regarding the growth of the Nintendo fanbase willing to return for the first party franchises, we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. The best case scenario I can imagine is them making up for the lack of third party games, not a lot more than that. As I said in a previous post, if they can work out partnerships for interesting and appealing exclusives to keep their library padded out and the release schedule reasonably full, that could allow for them to be at least somewhat successful even if the WiiU is a gamer's "secondary console."

The problem is that doesn't do anything for them in the long term, which is what this thread is about as far as I understand it.

 

[ctothej]

No one will pay Nintendo price for games for such a system. I think your logic is sound, but it goes against everything Nintendo thinks regarding value of software.

If they reduced the price of games to $10 a piece and embraced indies it would be a surefire hit.

...I take it you didn't read the OP?

 

[Starfish Hero]

Strengthening competition is exactly what I was referring to, along with Nintendo's platforms becoming less appealing as third party support gradually declined to the point it's at now. I figured that much was obvious. Thus, "losing fans" to other, more appealing platforms (or quitting gaming altogether).

Their competition is the strongest it's ever been and Nintendo, despite coming off a highly successful console, still manages to find themselves in a precarious position where we're talking about how much they're going to surpass the Gamecube by. I think that says a lot about the way the company is run, but that's for another topic.

Regarding the growth of the Nintendo fanbase willing to return for the first party franchises, we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. The best case scenario I can imagine is them making up for the lack of third party games, not a lot more than that. As I said in a previous post, if they can work out partnerships for interesting and appealing exclusives to keep their library padded out and the release schedule reasonably full, that could allow for them to be at least somewhat successful even if the WiiU is a gamer's "secondary console."

The problem is that doesn't do anything for them in the long term, which is what this thread is about as far as I understand it.

Well, that's were we disagree. Competition was a lot stronger during gens 5 (PS1) and 6 (PS2). The Playstation pretty much redefined gaming, creating a audience beyond kids and nerds. The PS2 expanded on that concept significantly by emphasizing multimedia capabilities, getting people who had no intention to game buying PS2s.

The Wii U's competition, on the other hand, isn't nearly as revolutionary. They both take what worked the last few gens (such as mainstream gaming, strong multimedia focus, and in Microsoft's case Kinect) and add, well, little else. Pretty much the only thing I can think of that can be a game changer that the PS4 and Xbox One offer is a indie gaming... which the Wii U also does pretty well.

The Xbox One and (especially) PS4 are appealing to us enthusiasts, but doesn't put as much pressure on Nintendo as the first two Playstations did. I really don't think either have done much to snatch up the Wii demographic, nor expand the consumer base at all.

 

[besada]

Nintendo can't build a comparable console? Um, both of this gen's consoles are effectively PCs. What's stopping Ninty from grabbing similar parts and rolling out a competitive console, other than an unwillingness to play in the same arena as the other two?

 

[soul creator]

I would totally be interested in a product like that. The Wii/Wii U gets sorta close in theory with the virtual console, but the interface, account issues, limited library (I still think they should go more in the "full catalog" direction, rather than just weekly releases) and other lack of other modern features do bug me a bit.