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[RobFox64tm]

Updated OP with an approximation of the kind of a gaming experience this hardware could deliver:

"Nintendo TV" gaming catalog

Using a quad core ARM SOC processor, I have selected games from current Nintendo and iPad catalogs to illustrate the level of gaming experience possible with this new miniature system. While big 3D epics are less feasible, a lot of Nintendo's current catalog would scale to hardware less potent than Wii U.

No way Tropical Freeze would run on ipad equivilent hardware as well as it does on Wii U currently. Just because a game is a side scrolling platformer doesn't mean it should be relagated to app status. This is where the biggest flaw in your proposal comes into play; you are making a lot of broad generalizations about Nintendo's software developement based on your own opinion of these games.

 

[WolvenOne]

My analysis differs somewhat, but there's agreement on a few points as well.

I do agree that Nintendo waited too long for the sort of machine they launched. Had the Wii U launched in 2010, or even 2011, and had a few years to build an install base before Microsoft and Sony launched their next consoles, being underpowered wouldn't have mattered.

As is, although the Wii U can put out some aesthetically pleasing visuals, it cannot compare with the competitions, and therefore cannot use visuals as a sales tool.

I actually like the Wii U's controller, but it either needed to be scaled back in certain respects, or Nintendo had to wait until they could do it right. The idea of having a second personal screen is good, making it a touchscreen is also a good idea. However, trying to make it into a tablet, despite its lack of multi-touch, and poor battery,and poor range,just didn't make sense.

Either they should've gone with smaller, cheaper, lower resolution screens like on the DS, to make having multiple controllers easier. Or, they needed to wait until they could make the Gamepad multi-touch, give it a better battery, and give it a range that would've allowed consumers to use it anywhere in the house.

As is, the Gamepad is interesting, and only hints at features that may have been great, had the implementation been better.

Most of all though, Nintendo NEEDED to come out with tons of games during their first year. The whole point of launching early, is to be able to build an install base while you have the market mostly to yourself. However, it's really difficult to sell consoles, when you do not have a robust line-up of games coming out in a timely manner.

Where I differ most, is that I'm not certain the Wii U cannot be salvaged. I would just assume give the console six months, to see if the situation improves at all, after a better line-up of titles come out. If a better lineup, and possibly a price drop, cannot improve the Wii U's sales, then its time to fast-track a successor and move game development over.

Course, at that point it'd also be time to start clearing out executives and clearing out the existing management. There's no way a company could suffer a failure of this magnitude and not face a major executive reshuffle.

Which is also why the Wii U isn't going to be quickly pushed aside. Current Nintendo execs will try everything they can to turn the Wii U into at least a nominal success, simply for the sake of their own self preservation.

 

[marc^o^]

I think I like your idea much more than I like my Wii U.

Seems sane to say if people bought Wii U best games they would start getting warm to the system. In your case you said you had no intention getting Pikmin 3, EarthBound, The Wonderful 101... because of your Vita backlog.

Before changing the system, let's see how its upcoming titles can change the console perception. I believe it will only take a handful of amazing games to do it.

 

[cartman414]

You guys are still stuck in the past. Dedicated hardware is in it's death throes. Next gen consoles are probably it. And handheld game dedicated hardware is not going to compete with phones and tables, ever, specially outside Japan.

Nintendo needs to go gaming as a service. Offer it's games on smart TV's, internet TV addon's like the ROKU, Chromecast, OUYA , PC and existing consoles. Basically go third party.

Release the next zelda, available digitally on PC, Xbone, PS4, 360/PS3, 3DS, Android, iPhone/iPad (probably a modified version to handle touch controls), smart Tv's etc, etc, and they can sit back and watch the dollars roll in.

No wasting billions of dollars on hardware that might fail, or on marketing and supporting that hardware. When ALL gaming goes service vs hardware eventually, they'll already be there with an upperhand vs the competition.

Lol. Going 3rd party would cause more problems for them. They'd have to port their games across different platforms, compete against other games on said platforms, and pay software royalties. Not to mention that they have had the best hardware QA reputation of the three.

 

[IrishNinja]

yeah, props for the work OP, not my bag but it's an interesting piece. honestly, it's been said on Retronauts for a while, but a subscription-like full Virtual Console would do a great deal of this for me.

That sounds kinda terrible for gamers. I'd rather they focus on making the Wii U not suck shit. So much for that summer update to speed up the OS huh?

mine's running a great deal smoother/faster than it did at launch, as far as in-game access and switching programs/apps...is this not the case for others?

 

[MercGH]

I think your wrong. Nintendo could make good consoles if they wanted to but their CEO is a lunatic.

The Wii made them a crap load of money. Every system was sold at profit unlike the 360/PS3 let alone the royalties.

They should have invested all that money into a modern contemporary system with good online support and strong hardware while retaining the Wii mote controls or bringing back the N64 controller

 

[marc^o^]

That sounds kinda terrible for gamers. I'd rather they focus on making the Wii U not suck shit. So much for that summer update to speed up the OS huh?

There was a summer update, ie we gained over 10 seconds to boot a game from the moment you power on the console. It was called a minor one so we can expect more from the major in coming weeks. I think you're right it is a key focus to have, and that a complete OS is long due and necessary.

 

[FlyFaster]

did no one here see that Nintendo posted a profit? Even with Wii U bombing.

You are seeing their philosophy in action.

"Turn a profit"

Not every system will be the Wii or SNES, or NES, but it doesn't matter. They will continue to operate at a profit and have large cash reserves. They continue to innovative, or at least try and this is what makes them special. There will be more Nintendo consoles.

I agree w/ OP on the idea of naming the next system "Nintendo _____" or "_______ Nintendo". Get that name back out there.

 

[orioto]

OP is nice and all but i think every strategy based on the Wii is dead now. It was 3 or 4 years ago that they should have done something. The motion control curiosity is just dead.

But again and again and again, next portable being also a home console is their future.

 

[Nikodemos]

I've been thinking about this type of system for a while, mainly due to threads like this one. Here's my proposal:

Should Ninty go with this option, they'd have to bring back the Game Boy. They can't afford having a single product. They need a cheaper, simpler entry-level device alongside their flagship.

 

[IrishNinja]

But again and again and again, next portable being also a home console is their future.

for years, i said this was silly: selling 1 product where you could sell 2, i just couldn't see it. but every day that goes by, this feels more likely, and the WU paving the way for that in a sense kinda cements it, even down to dev teams struggling to support both platforms where you can only imagine how hard they'd love to consolidate that right now, i bet.

 

[strata8]

The console could've been so much better if Nintendo ditched backwards compatibility.

 

[Duallusion]

I don't think there's even a question if they'll make some sort of a handheld/console hybrid; only when. Wii U's design (obsession with low power draw, gamepad streaming tech,...) could quite easily be interpreted as a stepping stone to that future.

 

[FlyFaster]

But again and again and again, next portable being also a home console is their future.

more I think about this the more I tend to agree.

a single system, that when home, hooks up to your TV, either through a wired connection or wirelessly through a small hookup that is always connect to the TV. Then of course the ability to travel and take it with you. Screen size on the gamepad is actually really nice. I like using it when i'm on the couch and don't want to turn the TV on. that's the problem with a portable tho... there is a limit to how big you can make it. Also, the controls, dual analog is necessary as are at least 8 buttons not including side buttons like home, start and select. Although those functions could be mapped to the touch screen and they could reduce them. The face buttons and shoulder buttons however I believe need to stay.

I think the Gamepad is the first step in that direction. I also think if they did this it could be something really special and blow everyone away again like the Wii did.

 

[Scotch]

I very much like the ideas in the OP, but it would need a slick, fast and sophisticated OS to support those ideas, and I think Nintendo is incapable of executing on that part.

 

[Basileus777]

Wii U is largely unsalvageable as Nintendo's first party efforts don't alone carry it and everyone from devs to retailers are dropping support.
Nintendo is unable to create a technically advanced console to share development pipeline with PS4 and Xbone in a timely, cost efficient manner.
Nintendo is unlikely to get hit by the lightning for a third time, meaning it can't bank on an interface innovation in creating a successful home console – like touch screen and waggle did.

If we are taking these three assumptions for granted, your strategy may be Nintendo's best hope of making money off of the home console market. I'm not sure it would really work, but i don't think they have many better options. They could try to focus on their handhelds, but that market is shrinking and under so much pressure that I'm not how wise that would be either.

 

[orioto]

for years, i said this was silly: selling 1 product where you could sell 2, i just couldn't see it. but every day that goes by, this feels more likely, and the WU paving the way for that in a sense kinda cements it, even down to dev teams struggling to support both platforms where you can only imagine how hard they'd love to consolidate that right now, i bet.

Yeah and look at the WiiU. They .. actually cannot sell 2 product

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I've been thinking about this type of system for a while, mainly due to threads like this one. Here's my proposal:



- Size of a 3DS XL, but slightly thicker to accommodate second set of triggers (either uniformly thicker, or a "lip" near the top) and a second circle pad.

- Uses technology similar to the Wii U to project the top screen image to an HDMI dongle.

- Can sync up with other wireless Nintendo controllers, such as the pro controller, for multiplayer. (don't want to lose Nintendo's local multiplayer titles, after all) Its motion controller option is redesigned top use a magnetometer to recalibrate rather than a sensor bar.

First, let me say that I love your Wii remote redesign, particularly the primary button layout. I was hoping Nintendo was going to do something like that, but instead we just got Motion +.

There are two flaws with your HDMI dongle though and that's power and the sensor bar. Why not just have a small box sit under the TV like Chittachong suggested?

My idea is something similar to what you and Chittachong suggested with a few exceptions.
1. Instead of the HDMi dongle, there could be a small box (think Roku/Apple TV) that had an HDD built in, WiFi, ethernet, SD/proprietary card reader, etc.
2. The handheld would completley ditch the dual screen design and go for a single 3D touch screen. There would be two designs though. One would be large and pretty much mimick the Wii U gamepad. The other would be small and would feature a slide out screen similar to the Sony Xperia Play.
3. The cartridges would work in the console and both handhelds. Downloaded games would be tied to an account system and playable on all three. The console would upscale the games similar to how an emulator upscales.
4. As for controls. A traditional controller would be perfect for gaming, but wouldn't make a lot of sense for navigating the console OS. Your Wii remote is damn near perfect though. I'm not sure the circle pad should be placed there though or if it would even be needed at all since it would pretty much be relegated to navigating the OS, playing Wii ports and the occasional new game that required it.
5. The tablet or handheld could be used in conjunction with the console to stream content between devices. In this scenerio, it would provide all the functions of Wii U as well as recent Nintendo handhelds - like the ability to have multiple systems play MP.

This would be a much cheaper way to implement the ideas Nintendo has for the Wii U while solving their inability to support two systems and get third party exclusives. It would also give them a larger userbase than they currently have since they are targeting both the handheld and console market with the same game.

Edit - For the console, the controller would need a touchpad or minitouch screen for some games. For compatibility, it would probably have to be a very similar set-up to Sony's Dual Shock 4.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I'll still hold on to my idea of a dual screen, dual analog handheld with 4 triggers that acts like a reverse Wii U. The stationary TV device would act as a sort of dock and relay and any combination of four handhelds or Wii U pad style controllers could be used for multiplayer.

 

[Chittagong]

No way Tropical Freeze would run on ipad equivilent hardware as well as it does on Wii U currently. Just because a game is a side scrolling platformer doesn't mean it should be relagated to app status. This is where the biggest flaw in your proposal comes into play; you are making a lot of broad generalizations about Nintendo's software developement based on your own opinion of these games.

Well, I added Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze based on how well they managed to port Donkey Kong Country Returns from Wii to 3DS. Surely some downgrades woukd be required when bringing it from Wii U to ARM but I think it's fundamentally possible. Same for Super Mario 3D World in my opinion - worse textures and no dof but plausible.

It's interesting to see what kinds of strategic options emerge in this thread for Nintendo

1. Continue with Wii U. Hope that first party games will keep it going and be happy with GCN level performance at best. Cost reduce.

2. Launch a new console with top of the line spec. No gimmicks, just raw efficient power on par or better than PS4 and Xbone. Work double time on regaining top tier 3rd party support.

3. Launch a cheap TV mini box that plays lightweight games. Bank on Nintendo games and indies only (the idea in OP).

4. Launch a hybrid handheld and home console. This seems like the most popular opinion in the thread currently.

Aside from an Oculus Rift based twist of a console (that some point out is contrary to Nintendo's shared family experince), I believe one of these four strategic options in what plots Nintendo's path for the next 5 years, 2013-2018.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Well, I added Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze based on how well they managed to port Donkey Kong Country Returns from Wii to 3DS. Surely some downgrades woukd be required when bringing it from Wii U to ARM but I think it's fundamentally possible. Same for Super Mario 3D World in my opinion - worse textures and no dof but plausible.

It's interesting to see what kinds of strategic options emerge in this thread for Nintendo

1. Continue with Wii U. Hope that first party games will keep it going and be happy with GCN level performance at best. Cost reduce.

2. Launch a new console with top of the line spec. No gimmicks, just raw efficient power on par or better than PS4 and Xbone. Work double time on regaining top tier 3rd party support.

3. Launch a cheap TV mini box that plays lightweight games. Bank on Nintendo games and indies only (the idea in OP).

4. Launch a hybrid handheld and home console. This seems like the most popular opinion in the thread currently.

Aside from an Oculus Rift based twist of a console (that some point out is contrary to Nintendo's shared family experince), I believe one of these four strategic options in what plots Nintendo's path for the next 5 years, 2013-2018.

The new ARM A57 CPUs are probably more than capable for a home console. Mobile GPUs are said to rival or outperform PS3/360 level graphics in the next year, so it's not unthinkable to have DK level graphics. It also presents a unique opportunity to have a shared architecture between handheld and console. At the very least, taking a LITTLE/big approach along with adjusting the clock rates accordingly should make this more of a possibility as well. There are a lot of options Nintendo could take. I'm not opposed to them going top of the line like they did with the GC again. I really don't see the point though aside from third party ports, but they could have just as many if not more exclusives if they took another route.

 

[DragonSworne]

The assumption that Nintendo can't compete tech wise with Sony and MS is false.

There are a couple of basic three point rules in the technology. One of them is small, powerful, cheap. You can have two of these things, but not all three.

Sony and MS favor power and cheapness, this of course requires larger consoles. Nintendo for whatever reason favors size and cheapness, so are forced to sacrifice power.

If Nintendo just allowed for a bigger system with a larger TPD, they would have a much stronger system that would be much closer to PS4/XB1 power. If they dropped the gamepad development, they would be even closer in power.

The only reason Wii and Wii U are so weak are because of the artificial size restriction and focus on gimmicks.

Nintendo can easily compete tech wise with Sony and MS without spending any more money than they already do on tech.

basically, they should aim to be as close to parity with the other systems and let what truely matters differentiate them from the rest, their excellent software.

If we concede that Nintendo can only differentiate themselves through hardware gimmicks, they have forever lost the ability to truly make good games. I don't think this is the case yet.

 

[marc^o^]

Indies are less risk averse than major studios. By a million miles. And that should work in Wii U's favor. With this console Nintendo set its playground around creativity, dual screen, control options, local multiplayer.

They have safe takes/refinementson their biggest franchises like Mario, DK or Mario Kart, but are also investing in new concepts such as Nintendo Land, Game & Wario, Wii U Party or WiiFit U new games.

I keep reading indies speak about how they will leverage the GamePad. I see an ovni like Spin the Bottle launch next week. And I foresee Wii U's execution will at one point match Nintendo's vision.

 

[alstein]

I'd rather they drop out of making home hardware all together than they make a turbocharged Roku.

Why not a handheld that comes with a way to plug it into a wall, and plug it into a TV to upscale games?

Combine a Roku with a handheld console.

 

[marc^o^]

Well, I added Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze based on how well they managed to port Donkey Kong Country Returns from Wii to 3DS. Surely some downgrades woukd be required when bringing it from Wii U to ARM but I think it's fundamentally possible. Same for Super Mario 3D World in my opinion - worse textures and no dof but plausible.

It's interesting to see what kinds of strategic options emerge in this thread for Nintendo

1. Continue with Wii U. Hope that first party games will keep it going and be happy with GCN level performance at best. Cost reduce.

2. Launch a new console with top of the line spec. No gimmicks, just raw efficient power on par or better than PS4 and Xbone. Work double time on regaining top tier 3rd party support.

3. Launch a cheap TV mini box that plays lightweight games. Bank on Nintendo games and indies only (the idea in OP).

4. Launch a hybrid handheld and home console. This seems like the most popular opinion in the thread currently.

Aside from an Oculus Rift based twist of a console (that some point out is contrary to Nintendo's shared family experince), I believe one of these four strategic options in what plots Nintendo's path for the next 5 years, 2013-2018.

From these scenarios, you will have understood I believe in the 1st one. Nintendo has the luxuary to take the time and the games needed to grow Wii U's userbase... thanks to the 3DS. It was vital for Nintendo to make it a money printing machine. If they believe in their Wii U vision they can afford to stick to it and make it a slow, long run success. Then benefit from this experience to move on to your 4th hypothesis.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

You guys are still stuck in the past. Dedicated hardware is in it's death throes. Next gen consoles are probably it. And handheld game dedicated hardware is not going to compete with phones and tables, ever, specially outside Japan.

Nintendo needs to go gaming as a service. Offer it's games on smart TV's, internet TV addon's like the ROKU, Chromecast, OUYA , PC and existing consoles. Basically go third party.

Release the next zelda, available digitally on PC, Xbone, PS4, 360/PS3, 3DS, Android, iPhone/iPad (probably a modified version to handle touch controls), smart Tv's etc, etc, and they can sit back and watch the dollars roll in.

No wasting billions of dollars on hardware that might fail, or on marketing and supporting that hardware. When ALL gaming goes service vs hardware eventually, they'll already be there with an upperhand vs the competition.

**SEMI-RANT TIME**

No, just....no. To all of this. I can't stand the thought of gaming only becoming a service. There is an entire culture around physical collection of hardware and software, and games are defined as much by their hardware and the culture of that hardware as they are the concepts and mechanics that shape the software code. That culture doesn't have to be lost; I'm sure plenty of us when we were younger, hell even now as grown-ups, were stimulated into drawing out our own consoles and games because we had something tangible to touch and feel. Many people who are in console hardware engineering right now, probably took old systems apart and tried figuring out how they worked in their spare time. Again, tangibility.

People always keep bringing up tablets and smartphones, but I don't see how they're of much relevance. Folks don't use those devices for dedicated gaming, just a few quick rounds of whatever. There's also the issue of so many tablet and smartphone games being dreadfully easy; the entire industry's been trending that way for years now, but without dedicated hardware there'd maybe be even less of an excuse for that to accelerate. Don't even mention to me how that's good for the industry at large; you want to read a good book, you have to have a solid vernacular. Understand a good film? You'd better know about the concepts it presents in-depth enough to form a conversation. Play a good game? Get through its learning curve and well-designed challenge, keyword being challenge.

Could you imagine what the tablet and smartphone market would do to many beloved gaming franchises? It's not a secret, people who game mostly on those devices have no clue what actual game design is about, there is a reason why you're supposed to suffer consequences when you mess up, and there's importance in learning from them to get better. Games on those devices don't really honor that because the culture doesn't, and you expect games like Ninja Gaiden, MGS, Mario, etc. to go through that unchanged? The entire gaming scene will end up like some sort of virtual playground with safety gloves for everyone, it'd be no different than playing dress-up with dolls.

Any problems with Nintendo....with the industry right now, are the result of years of other bad decisions building up like snowballs. The problems didn't suddenly start in 2007 when smartphones and tablets gained popularity, they merely added to it. These companies have to look from within and figure out why so many people are blaming an external "threat" as their problem when it's maybe more to the effect they aren't doing as good a job as they can to please their fans and live up to their potential.

Look at Capcom for example. What if they came out with dismal 2013 sales numbers, and then said "Well, we would've done better but smartphones and tablets are just kicking too much ass", can you understand how baseless that would be? You could look at their 2013 lineup and say "well, that's a god-awful lineup", see they have a game like Onimusha going to the tablets and say "that doesn't make sense", and have a better reasoning for why their numbers are so bad than their official statement. The same could apply to any company.

TL;DR: Tablets and smartphones aren't the enemies of dedicated gaming, but the day dedicated gaming goes software-only, is the day the culture dies.

Spoiler

Call me an old fogie. I don't care.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

the next machine has to be a handheld that can stream diect to tv through a dongle (hdmi or scart)

all the benefits of a 3ds and the wii u pad but can be taken away from screen and outdoors in link of a eye.
multiplayer needs more handhelds yes but thats a benefit to ninty, and well as long s it has the power of hd table its more than enough power for ninty games.

 

[Daante]

Impressive OP!

Some great and realistic ideas/points that you bring up.
I love when smart people take their time and write something this interesting.

I watched some bits from John Carmacks keynote speech, from this years Quakecon.
He basically said that this upcoming generation will last very loong, (XB1 and PS4) , and that once the next cycle start in like 8 years or so he didnt think it will be 3 major hardware players left.

 

[z0m3le]

Wii U's successor should come around 2017, it will likely be at least as powerful as XBone, so all they need to do is bring down the price of the Wii U gamepad, pack in a Wiimote and (this is the most important part) use that singlar architecture with their next handheld (what Iwata said last year about moving to 1 architecture instead of what people here want (1 platform) and pump out games. Wii U wouldn't look so bad a purchase if these games that are coming out in the next 18months were spread across the first 12 months. Combined this with the ability for 3rd parties to easily port their PS4/XB1 games not only to Wii U's successor but to 3DS's successor (with the same code even) they could actually just possibly regain 3rd party support much heavier than gamecube (considering that even with how bad 3DS and Wii U have sold out of the gate and in Wii U's case, continues to do so) they have 35-40 million users between them since the launch of 3DS only ~28 months ago.

This is all they really need to do, also keeping the console @ or below $300 and 1 sku is the way to go for 2017.

Disclaimer, although I have played a lot of Wii U, I haven't bought one yet because there isn't software on it yet that I want, though pikmin 3 comes out tomorrow, I will still probably wait till late fall, winter for my purchase.

 

[KiNeSiS]

Nice post.
In the words of the late great Bugs Bunny

How about "If you can''t beat um join um *chewz carrot* Doc?"

 

[richiek]

Nintendo is just better off teaming up with Apple and make an exclusive gaming service with Apple TV if they're going to go this route. Let Apple handle the OS and user interface, while Nintendo handles the games and controller.

 

[KiNeSiS]

OP I appreciate the work you did on this thread but come on an IOS power comparable machine thats worse than what they are doing now may as well get a tablet you can take with you.
Sadly Nintendo lost and it is thier own fault. 3rd parties see this that's why they bailed out or didn't even bother.

 

[KiNeSiS]

Nintendo are cheap bastards that rip off their customers. Everything is just over priced if they wanted they could have the best console on the market. They have the funds, thing is why bother? Their crazy fans will buy almost anything they crap out why should they push boundries?

 

[BlackJace]

^ Sigh.

 

[KiNeSiS]

^Reality bites. Spare me your dissapointment. I don't run Nintendo I observe the obvious. You can deny it all you want why are Nintendo fans shouting on roof tops for Iwata San to resign & Miyamoto San to retire? They are upset because Nintendo are self destructive.

In the 80's early 90's Nintendo were cutting edge, for a decade they just lost their edge. They applied their OG GameBoy philosophy to their consoles & it's just not panning out.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

There are two flaws with your HDMI dongle though and that's power and the sensor bar. Why not just have a small box sit under the TV like Chittachong suggested?

1- Nintendo has been moving away from the sensor bar for some time now. Most motion + games don't use it, and the Gamepad doesn't need it for its motion sensing. My upgraded remote includes a magnetometer to use absolute compass points as the fixed position to check for drift.

2- There are numerous wireless HDMI products on the market that don't need external power for the recievers. HDMI is a two-way seystem, capable of streaming data and power back to low-draw devices.

I'm not sure the circle pad should be placed there though or if it would even be needed at all since it would pretty much be relegated to navigating the OS, playing Wii ports and the occasional new game that required it.

Camera control was a major flaw with the original Wii remote. That's mainly what the circle pad is there for.

 

[BlackJace]

^Reality bites. Spare me your dissapointment. I don't run Nintendo I observe the obvious. You can deny it all you want why are Nintendo fans shouting on roof tops for Iwata San to resign & Miyamoto San to retire? They are upset because Nintendo are self destructive.

In the 80's early 90's Nintendo were cutting edge, for a decade they just lost their edge. They applied their OG GameBoy philosophy to their consoles & it's just not panning out.

Just once I'd like to not be insulted for still enjoying the games and products they still put out. It's fine you're disappointed, but don't put others down because they don't fully agree.

 

[Kyzer]

So basically, rebrand the Wii U, remove the tablet, and make the UI more sleek? Sounds like a good start.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I was saying for a while that this is where Nintendo should have gone. Basically create the OUYA that everyone thought the OUYA was. Leverage heavily on the Virtual Console stuff. If you created a device that had access to tons of old NES/SNES/N64 games and advertised that the way Apple did with iTunes, you have a gold mine.

 

[Chittagong]

So basically, rebrand the Wii U, remove the tablet, and make the UI more sleek? Sounds like a good start.

that, plus

- move away from PowerPC to an ARM based architecture, as long as PowerPC runs their consoles there will never be a portable Wii U
- move away from multi-GB optical disc AAA to simpler games that can be downloaded even on lower connections

I was saying for a while that this is where Nintendo should have gone. Basically create the OUYA that everyone thought the OUYA was. Leverage heavily on the Virtual Console stuff. If you created a device that had access to tons of old NES/SNES/N64 games and advertised that the way Apple did with iTunes, you have a gold mine.

this exactly. I would love me some Game & Wario, New Super Luigi U and Wii Sports, and none of them require a big console and a tabletish thing

hell even Luigi's Mansion 2, Zelda LTTP 2 and Kid Icarus Uprising at home TV would be awesome and no need for a big console

 

[marc^o^]

no need for a big console

The Wii U is not that big, they could achieve what you ask for on the
console they have, over time.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Very well put together, can't argue there.

I argue that this is something that you should not have to tell them though.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I was saying for a while that this is where Nintendo should have gone. Basically create the OUYA that everyone thought the OUYA was. Leverage heavily on the Virtual Console stuff. If you created a device that had access to tons of old NES/SNES/N64 games and advertised that the way Apple did with iTunes, you have a gold mine.

Here's my thing w/ OUYA, tho: wasn't it supposed to be a very open-ended homebrew mod sort of system? I remember the developers touting that as a big selling point given its price. Don't know if that's the case now (it probably doesn't even have enough customers to make homebrewing worthwhile), but it was mentioned before.

Nintendo would NEVER release a system that open for homebrew, not like OUYA was being touted. It's not in their culture, and whether you like it or not, Nintendo are control freaks.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Here's my thing w/ OUYA, tho: wasn't it supposed to be a very open-ended homebrew mod sort of system? I remember the developers touting that as a big selling point given its price. Don't know if that's the case now (it probably doesn't even have enough customers to make homebrewing worthwhile), but it was mentioned before.

Nintendo would NEVER release a system that open for homebrew, not like OUYA was being touted. It's not in their culture, and whether you like it or not, Nintendo are control freaks.

I don't mean that part of OUYA, I mean the way OUYA was supposed to be a souped up AppleTV/Roku. One that had all of their app capabilities, but at the same time was a legit gaming console. Obviously Nintendo wouldn't release an open, homebrew system, but a low power, small form factor box that plays Nintendo games?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

OP, I would consider buying such a system. There are a lot of positives there and it does take into account the (sad) reality Nintendo will never be able to directly compete with MS or Sony on their turf.

I think the price could actually be lower, around $99, and I still value physical media a lot so maybe it wouldn't be too much to ask if certain games at least had sort of "cartridge-designed" SD cards you could write the data to; they'd make them sort of proprietary of course so you could only write to them once and one game on them, but assuming card costs come down and they have good compression tools, they could sell say 4GB-8GB cards for $10, possibly less, maybe in the store or online per order.

Possibly other devs will make booklet materials and casings available you can order online. The whole service would already be niche yeah, but chances are the people using it already have a disposition to paying for this stuff (we don't mind paying $50 for decade old games as long as they're in mint condition, for example), so it wouldn't be a stretch for us. I think it could work, and play to their more core base anyhow.

I mean, I REALLY value having a tangible copy here, but I wouldn't mind if they offered such a thing as an addition to an otherwise all-digital ecosystem.

Also: Some sort of analog control, like the Nunchuck, has to be included. It didn't cost much for them to include that with the Wii, right?

 

[totowhoa]

Not ready to jump in on the conversation just yet, but wanted to say that the OP was very well written and presented. I'm looking forward to reading through this thread later on!

 

[pizzapizza64]

I just finished reading this and love the idea! I think having a traditional Nintendo handheld that can also output through this device would be super cool too.

 

[Afrodium]

I think this is a great idea. It's possible that it will be tougher for companies like Google and Apple to take over the living room that people are expecting. The Apple TV still hasn't quite caught on, and time will tell if Apple will be able to successfully own the TV space.

Nintendo, on the other hand, is a company that has always sold boxes that get hooked up into the TV. People welcome the company into their living rooms, and a $99 box that can play new and old Nintendo games as well as TV apps will be a no brainer for customers. I could see this being huge. Even if Apple or Google do offer a comparable set-top box I could see a load of customers buying the one that plays Nintendo instead. And even if the media capabilities aren't needed by a specific consumer, it's a dirt cheap box that plays Nintendo games. I would be all over this.

OP, your idea is terrible because it has Nintendo relying on lightweight games and fading nostalgia.

And it's terrible for gamers, and especially Nintendo fans, because we want new, deep gameplay experiences, not snacksized bites of "fun."

The gaming industry NEEDS an entity like Nintendo that HAS to keep thinking of new and fun ways to innovate in order to survive. Your idea would take them down the path of relying on a back catalogue of old games and simplistic new games. It may work for short term profit, but in the end we'll all be poorer for it.

Why does innovation hinge on better hardware? Is it at all possible that the biggest innovation this industry needs is a break from constantly balooning budgets as a result of customers demanding shinier graphics over innovative gameplay? Nintendo showed with the Wii that they can make awesome games on underpowered hardware. The company doesn't need to work on PS4 level specs, they're having enough trouble working on PS3 level ones.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

1- Nintendo has been moving away from the sensor bar for some time now. Most motion + games don't use it, and the Gamepad doesn't need it for its motion sensing. My upgraded remote includes a magnetometer to use absolute compass points as the fixed position to check for drift.

2- There are numerous wireless HDMI products on the market that don't need external power for the recievers. HDMI is a two-way seystem, capable of streaming data and power back to low-draw devices.



Camera control was a major flaw with the original Wii remote. That's mainly what the circle pad is there for.

I don't know about the magnometer, but motion + needs to be calibrated before each use, so it's not ideal for a Roku/Apple TV type box for casuals. I understand the convenience you like conveyed with the dongle, but there are other problems as well. I just think a little box could be done really cheaply like Chittachong has said and would provide more options for both Nintendo and consumers.

- A console with a shared library would give you better IQ than a dongle.
- A console could hold more content and have server like features
-- Imagine moving a game from the console to an SD card and then putting it in your handheld.
- A console would allow for split screen multiplayer while simultaneously transmitting handheld devices.
- A console would allow you to target the console market.
- A console, if wanted could be more powerful than the handheld and offer exclusive games.
-- If a game was tailor made for the Wii remote or a different hardware attachment, it would be easier cheaper with a console.
- A console could theoretically provide better graphics and/or exclusive games/content while still being able to play all the handheld games.
- The handheld could have exclusive games/content (like touchscreen/camera use) while also having the added benefit of being synced with your console (exactly like the Wii U & Gamepad) to control the OS/games.

My idea of a hybrid is basically targeting two different audiences with the same games, but the goal is to get people to buy both systems. There would still be a reason to buy each one depending on your preferences. 99% of the games would work on both systems, but in some cases one of them would have additional features/content or possibly even made from the ground up for that system. Basically, Nintendo would make it to where if you bought their handheld, you would eventually want to buy the console too for the additional content and vice versa.

that, plus

- move away from PowerPC to an ARM based architecture, as long as PowerPC runs their consoles there will never be a portable Wii U
- move away from multi-GB optical disc AAA to simpler games that can be downloaded even on lower connections



this exactly. I would love me some Game & Wario, New Super Luigi U and Wii Sports, and none of them require a big console and a tabletish thing

hell even Luigi's Mansion 2, Zelda LTTP 2 and Kid Icarus Uprising at home TV would be awesome and no need for a big console

I think moving away from PPC and going to ARM is a given. Sony considered ARM for PS4, but opted for X86 due to porting convenience. The power is there with ARM, we are simply playing a waiting game. I think Nintendo is the most likely one to use it in a console in the future. 3DS is capable of delivering console like games already, the problem is that the games are stuck on that system. As you said, there are a plethora of 3DS games that would be nice to play on the TV. Right now the Wii U has all the controls needed to play 3DS games with the Gamepad. That's why I think Nintendo should start making most future games for both systems and make the 3DS and Wii U the end of an era and start preparing people for this hybrid future.

Currently, this will require coding the game for two different architectures, but in the future, the handheld and console could share the same architecture. By starting to port 3DS games to Wii U now, they will be preparing people for the future. Moving to a new architecture unfortunately means losing all backwards compatibility, but at least they will have a set standard going forward to build off of.

To minimize cost and enhance compatibility, I think they should drop the dual screen on the handheld and include a traditional controller with the console. The controller may need a touchpad (like the PS4 DS4) built into it though. Some games (like Kid Icarus) could have two different control schemes. One would be for the handheld (touchscreen) and one for the console (Wii remote and nun-chuck). In the options menu, you could select your controller preference.

I don't know about DS & 3DS, but GC & Wii games are rendered at a higher resolution internally and then displayed at a lower resolution on the TV. A similar approach could be taken going forward. All games could be displayed at a higher resolution on the console than the handheld and the clocks and specs could be adjusted for it. Like the GC & Wii, the handheld games would be internally rendered at a higher resolution than its display would allow, but the console will unlock it. The other option is to have the exact same specs in both devices, but it would make the handheld more expensive (hi-res screen) and would also lower battery life.

The console could also have the benefit of split screen multiplayer while also streaming data to handhelds just like DS & 3DS does it. This could allow for a lot more people to play together locally than is currently available. Perhaps a special chip or line of code will need to be detected for this function to be enabled, but when you see the option for split screen on the handheld, it would simply be grayed out and not selectable. As I said, the goal for Nintendo should be to get people to buy both systems and this would be another reason why. The Wii U is limited by only being able to stream to one gamepad and the price and availability of a replacement is also a factor. This would be a way around that.

There's a way to do it going forward and there's a way to transition it starting now. The big question is what Nintendo will do. We can speculate all day long about this, but there's no telling what direction they will take.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

No thank you.