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Beyond: Two Souls - Review Thread
- Thread starter DukeBobby
- Start date
Riposte
Member
You can't think of a game better than David Cage's games? Emotion isn't restricted to a template of shaped by hallmark cards and movie genres. Every single thing you've ever felt about a videogame was an emotional response. The most emotional game, or at least the game that "does emotion best", is no doubt the game that gave you the most pleasure.
Ah, but the level of investment varies. For example, someone who is heavily invested in the industry might still want to discuss HR and Beyond for their good or bad qualities because of the implications it has, or because you hope future products are improved so that they can impact gamers and the industry more positively. I agree with your overarching point here, but just want to clarify that 'investment' does not solely mean playing the game start to finish. There are other forms of investment.
For something like Heavy Rain, I played and beat it. Release week, even! I gave it a fair shake, so I was invested in it and experienced it. I cannot in good conscience say I will do that for Beyond, which is why I have not really been specific about any issues with the game (except I assume it has bad writing, but I think I've earned that assumption off David Cage's other works and the videos I've watched of Beyond) but only say I'm concerned because of my experience with HR and the bad reviews and GAFer complaints. But I am still fascinated by the discussion and want to contribute, much like many others, because of my past history with Quantic's game, my interest in this industry and games which try something different and the curious debate over interactivity. Naturally I won't wade very deep into discussions of specifics, though. I am just interested in it all.
I agree with you. I will be picking this up hopefully by the end of the month, need to finish Puppeteer and GTA 5 first.
this is so true.
Can you send this post to Bionic Arm, please?
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
My copy is on the way from amazon and i actually enjoyed heavy rain.
One of the games i could never sell and bought the DLC also.
With that being said i am looking forward to this game and i hope to not regret this purchase.
It has been a while since a quantic dream game was released and i hope its good.
I never go off "Game reviews".
Please deliver
One of the games i could never sell and bought the DLC also.
With that being said i am looking forward to this game and i hope to not regret this purchase.
It has been a while since a quantic dream game was released and i hope its good.
I never go off "Game reviews".
Please deliver
toddhunter
Member
Well you can change the definition of "emotion" to suit your argument. But that doesn't lessen the somewhat unique impact Cage's games have had whilst I played them. Lots of games give me pleasure or frustration, few make me feel the positive and negative emotions explored in his titles.
I'm surprised at some of the low scores. I haven't been following the game but it looked a lot more interesting than Heavy Rain, which I still thought was worth a playthrough despite its issues.
I know a 6 isn't that bad, I just didn't really expect it. I wasn't going to buy it soon anyway but I just noticed a Redbox around the corner has it so I might go grab it for the night.
I know a 6 isn't that bad, I just didn't really expect it. I wasn't going to buy it soon anyway but I just noticed a Redbox around the corner has it so I might go grab it for the night.
BadAss2961
Member
The problem with a lot of Cage haters is that it has become their personal mission to invalidate his games. Some won't even call them games, which is especially stupid when they somehow give The Walking Dead a pass. I'm a fan of TWD, btw.
Amirox, i'm sure you've typed at least double the amount of text, and spent double the amount of time on this subject than any of QD's fans on this forum. Doesn't it get tiring talking about a certain director's games that obviously don't appeal to you? A lot of people like Cage's stuff and respect what he's bringing to the scene, get over it.
I've been playing the game for a few hours and I think it's absolutely great and yeah, I loved Heavy Rain.
So I think that the issue with mixed (high variance) review scores is clearly due to the fact that some people simply don't like the genre and what this kind of game is trying to accomplish and they want to be vocal about it.
That's absolutely natural, different people have different tastes, but it's not really fair, it's as if I reviewed Call of Duty telling how the developers are in creativity bankruptcy, they could not bother with the single player campaign at all considering how short, cliched and useless it is, that they do it every year just for the money, with a 4/10 score as the icing on the cake. These points are true and yet every year we see the gaming press giving out the political 8s and 9s and 10s. BUT it's also true that millions of people like to play that game every year, there must be a reason for that and I respect them.
These reviews (not necessarily all the negative ones) saying that Beyond is not a game and so it automatically sucks, that David Cage is a failed movie director and so on are just disrespectful.
I hope that David Cage continues to explore this genre finding new ways to innovate it.
So I think that the issue with mixed (high variance) review scores is clearly due to the fact that some people simply don't like the genre and what this kind of game is trying to accomplish and they want to be vocal about it.
That's absolutely natural, different people have different tastes, but it's not really fair, it's as if I reviewed Call of Duty telling how the developers are in creativity bankruptcy, they could not bother with the single player campaign at all considering how short, cliched and useless it is, that they do it every year just for the money, with a 4/10 score as the icing on the cake. These points are true and yet every year we see the gaming press giving out the political 8s and 9s and 10s. BUT it's also true that millions of people like to play that game every year, there must be a reason for that and I respect them.
These reviews (not necessarily all the negative ones) saying that Beyond is not a game and so it automatically sucks, that David Cage is a failed movie director and so on are just disrespectful.
I hope that David Cage continues to explore this genre finding new ways to innovate it.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Yeah really, the ending of wonderful 101 I was filled with incredible emotion from a story that never took itself too seriously.
From the reviews I've read, it appears that critics have no issues with the genre, but rather Quantic Dream's execution of the genre.
dragonbane
Member
Not exactly.
Just the things you do with Aiden are stacking up. So for example if you play nice, mixed or evil. The thing that is cool about this is that it's not like Mass Effect 3 "choose option 1,2,3" it happens more organically. You just do what you feel is appropriate and the game will remember it. In the end it's probably some kind of ratio how you did in different situations and depending on that you unlock a different ending branch. The game has just released, so people are still experimenting with it.
I'm just going to repost this response I made to the last person who said such a silly thing. It answers specifically why it's wrong and unfair to even suggest it.
Secondly, I have not even come close to posting as much about HR as the biggest HR fans. That said, however, it wouldn't matter if I posted ten times as much as I do now about it. There is no 'limit' on the amount of negativity or positivity one is allowed to post. Further, it is not the games he makes that don't appeal to me - conceptually they're interesting at a basic level, and I like the adventure game genre. It's that to date he has simply made them poorly, and so I have been critical of them (I don't know about Beyond, so don't consider this a Beyond opinion).
Third, my posting on the subject has not the remotest infinitesimal shred of relation to not being "over" the fact people love and respect David Cage or his games (in fact: since my posts consistently keep discussing the products themselves and people like you keep taking personal aim at individuals, the only implication is that the opposite is true: you can't get over that we may not love and respect some David Cage products). My criticisms lie squarely with the products he makes. I simply see posts I agree or disagree with, and then share why. It's a simple process and does not require any more ulterior motive than that. The entire industry fascinates me, and this is a recent hot topic. I do not get bored posting about such things because every single conversation I have ever had has been different in some way, no matter how similar you personally interpret them and so I almost always get something new from them.
If you respond to criticisms being made and explain why they're wrong or right, we can have a discussion. If you choose to attack an individual for being negative, then you are the problem, not the individual. It's why I don't have a single problem with dragonbane, despite him being one of the biggest QD fans on neoGAF. He articulates his points extremely well, states his case with some genuine resolve and support, and always does it in a matter which respects his fellow posters right to think otherwise. dragonbane doesn't invent fake reasons why people don't like Heavy Rain, he accepts what people say at face value and merely disagrees.
Dragonbane is a model poster.
dragonbane said:
Ah, that actually is an interesting system for gauging moral decisions. I wonder exactly how they weigh different things.
abacab driver
Banned
About what I expected.
Infact I said not ALL the negative reviews.
But many of them are just about 'this is not a game, Cage can't make either good movies or good games'. A few are more subtle than others but that's the message.
I mean just read the IGN review:
"Look, don't touch. If there was ever a game that suggested that Cage is a frustrated film director at heart, its this one. ".
That's false because the game offers a lot of interaction and disrespectful towards a creator at an almost personal level.
Of course it's IGN....you can't expect a lot from them...but you can't deny the trend in certain reviews.
I agree, that does sound a little disrespectful.
To me, it sounds like less of a critique of his writing or ideas, and more of a personal insult.
This was clearly not IGN's intention, but it definitely could have been worded better.
This is actually a really good idea....
I am playing through it now and unlike heavy rain I feel I am expressing more of my morals through the choices I make with Aiden. Unlike heavy rain where I just pressed x to be good.
Officerrob
Banned
Colin Moriarty trashes this game in the new Podcast Beyond, and he loved Heavy Rain
one of the things that make me curious now, and maybe I'll try it out when Beyond is like $9.99 or something, is if it would lead to difficulty in my finding the 'optimal' ending.
In Heavy Rain, like you said, I felt like it was extremely obvious what your choices would lead to. I aimed for the happiest ending and on my first try I got the happiest ending available.
If Beyond could change that binary type of morality weighing, it may almost be worth trying out at $9.99 to see how it works in practice.
He also says he has not finished it.
It seems like his major complaints are that the story gets really crazy and the splintered story. Seems in line with most of the complaints.
I for one really enjoy the story.Yeah definitely worth a look and I will need to experiment as I have not finished it yet.
One major thing that I think would have been really easy to fix is the splintered story. Having it occur chronologically would have probably raised the aggregate score a point and a half.
It's been up for a while.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692221&highlight=beyond+two+souls
The disparity in review scores isn't surprising, but I am a little surprised at just how low the lower scores are.. there doesn't seem to be much middle ground with this one. There's no "meh, it's okay", it's either utterly fantastic or utterly shit, depending on which review you read.
I think the big problem here is that this game, and HR (and presumably IP, although I haven't played it) before it, are kind of in a genre of their own. They don't really fit into any of the established types of games, so it's hard to say "If you like such-and-such a game, you'll like this". A few people here have said that, for the reviewers that were able to enjoy it for what it is, found it quite enjoyable. I hate to use the old "If you didn't like it, you didn't get it" trope, but for these games, it's kind of true. This is kind of a niche genre, whatever we end up calling it, and not everyone likes that kind of thing. The reviews are clear enough on that.
I'm about an hour or so into it myself, and I'm enjoying it quite a lot.
I'd hate to see people ditch the game based solely on the bad reviews. If you're on the fence, there's a demo.
And what I'd really hate to see, which I saw when HR came out, is people that didn't like the game going on vicious rants about how idiotic the rest of us were who had the gall to like it. Games like this are polarzing, for whatever reasons (I personally think that "because David Cage" is a pretty silly reason not to even give it a thought), but we can all agree to disagree, I hope.
I think the big problem here is that this game, and HR (and presumably IP, although I haven't played it) before it, are kind of in a genre of their own. They don't really fit into any of the established types of games, so it's hard to say "If you like such-and-such a game, you'll like this". A few people here have said that, for the reviewers that were able to enjoy it for what it is, found it quite enjoyable. I hate to use the old "If you didn't like it, you didn't get it" trope, but for these games, it's kind of true. This is kind of a niche genre, whatever we end up calling it, and not everyone likes that kind of thing. The reviews are clear enough on that.
I'm about an hour or so into it myself, and I'm enjoying it quite a lot.
I'd hate to see people ditch the game based solely on the bad reviews. If you're on the fence, there's a demo.
And what I'd really hate to see, which I saw when HR came out, is people that didn't like the game going on vicious rants about how idiotic the rest of us were who had the gall to like it. Games like this are polarzing, for whatever reasons (I personally think that "because David Cage" is a pretty silly reason not to even give it a thought), but we can all agree to disagree, I hope.
Goldenmoney
Member
I watched almost all of his playthrough today too. Must say I was compelled by the story, graphics, and acting. Plus Dan was his usual entertaining self. Many laughs were had.
This has probably been said many times already in this thread, but my beef with this game is it's much more of a movie or simulator than a video game. It's something that I would much rather watch on the internet than buy and play through it myself. The gameplay was interesting at the beginning, but they didn't really add much to it throughout the game. It got pretty boring quickly and like Dan said it felt very tacked on.
So for me, it's in the very same boat as games such as the walking dead and the last of us. They're games that I would much rather watch for free than pay $60 to play.
for God's sake shut up already, you sound like buying and enjoying this game is a sin and the industry is in danger so you, of all people, are needed to save everything... look go get the game, play it and come here to post your walls of text, until then please stay quiet and don't call others' opinions "silly" or start ranking posters "this guy is cool while this poster is not", please, don't make this any more toxic, we get you, you hate the game, can you leave and come back when you play the damn game since your main point is the story and gameplay and you haven't tried it yourself ? if you're bored just go and edit something you wrote in the past.
Coffee Dog
Banned
You didnt address his point at all, and only succeeded at making yourself look impossible to engage in reasonable discourse with. Hell, you even ended your post with a personal attack for no reason. Good job, ya dingus.
oh God, I tried and he called my post silly ! just like that, he even linked it to another person disagreeing with him and called my personal opinion "silly" again, what's this juvenile stuff ? he can do whatever he wants even insulting but I am impossible to engage of course, you know me ? why do you call me that ? based on what ? and then you go and talk about "personal attacks for no reason", you just did that to me "dingus", double standards. More venom in a thread that doesn't really need it.
Amir0x said:
Amir0x said:
see ? he claims that "model posters" respect, but he goes about calling others' opinion "silly". What's the deal ? Who does this guy believe he is "ranking" posters and hating so furiously on a game he has not even played, why do we need this on the this thread ? I'd understand if he had played the game and was giving his point of view, I finished the game but my opinion is silly, he didn't but everyone must respect him or someone will appear to call you "dingus", whatever, I don't understand this.
Officerrob
Banned
73 average is not a bad score. Reminds me of this.
True, but I think the problem is that Heavy Rain was VERY polarizing after the fact (I bought it, and regretted it) and it had an 87 on Metacritic. People who were on the fence about giving a Cage game another chance are probably going to be scared away by a lot of game reviewers thinking Beyond is much worse than Heavy Rain.
One thing I noticed in this thread is that Computer dropped the Ellen Page in Beyond avatar pretty quickly.
It's okay to love a terrible film, dude. You should've kept it!
If there isn't one up, make one yourself. I doubt most people are going to care if it's a magazine ad for a spoiler thread. Just say "all spoilers go here" or whatever.
Because it is. Storywise it's as bad as Heavy Rain's just from seeing scenes of it.
Gameplay wise, if the demo is anything to go by they got rid of some awkward QTE's for a few "braindead" imitate this action to get this action scene. Which is kinda an improvement but still snore-educing.
It's okay to love a terrible film, dude. You should've kept it!
Atilac said:
If there isn't one up, make one yourself. I doubt most people are going to care if it's a magazine ad for a spoiler thread. Just say "all spoilers go here" or whatever.
Because it is. Storywise it's as bad as Heavy Rain's just from seeing scenes of it.
Gameplay wise, if the demo is anything to go by they got rid of some awkward QTE's for a few "braindead" imitate this action to get this action scene. Which is kinda an improvement but still snore-educing.
73 average is not a bad score. Reminds me of this.
If every other game was to be scored by that lower scale, and only Beyond: TS by that upper scale, then it would be a good score. But every other game is also reviewed by that upper scale so a game dipping in the low 70's nowadays is a decent game, game clear flaws and is nothing special. I don't like how people feel that some injustice is done to B:TS. It's beeing reviewed by the same criteria every other game is reviewed and if a game scores a 70 average, let it be. For a game that resolves around story, characters and pacing, I sure read a lot of critisism on those key points.
Not sure if posted. Famitsu review:
Beyond: Two Souls (PS3) 10/9/10/9
Other reviews in Famitsu this week:
Pokemon X/Y (3DS) 10/10/10/9
Rayman Legends (Wii U) 9/8/8/9
F1 2013 (PS3/360) 9/8/8/9
Saint Seiya: Brave Soldiers (PS3) 8/8/7/7
Sentouchu: Densetsu no Shinobi no Survival Battle! (3DS) 8/8/7/7
J-League Pro Soccer Club o Tsukurou! 8 Euro Plus (PSP) 8/7/8/7
Beyond: Two Souls (PS3) 10/9/10/9
Other reviews in Famitsu this week:
Pokemon X/Y (3DS) 10/10/10/9
Rayman Legends (Wii U) 9/8/8/9
F1 2013 (PS3/360) 9/8/8/9
Saint Seiya: Brave Soldiers (PS3) 8/8/7/7
Sentouchu: Densetsu no Shinobi no Survival Battle! (3DS) 8/8/7/7
J-League Pro Soccer Club o Tsukurou! 8 Euro Plus (PSP) 8/7/8/7
I'm glad that experiences like this exist. It's not as if the entire industry has shifted towards making interactive drama like this and, in reality, this concept has existed for decades (think of graphic novel games back on NES and SNES, for instance).
Playing the game by oneself also allows you to take your time and soak in the atmosphere. It creates an additional bond that you miss out on by watching, I feel.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Why do people keep saying this, you guys do know this is the 3rd game of its kind by the same guy and two so far have been successful right?
On podcast beyond Colin even calls people out . Saying that David Cage could be making films if he wanted to, he has the money. What he makes are games and are his vision.
He gives a very fair opion on it in fact and talks about why he feels the way he does. A very interesting discusion, as Greg likes it. Minor spoilers.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Same. I want these type of games to succeed. I hope their PS4 project ends up being better received
Sticky, sticky, sticky.
These mixed reviews definitely reinforced my decision about buying D3 and then leaving out Beyond. I'll get Beyond at some point when my private finances has recuperated.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Wow, this is such a ridiculously biased fallacy, I swear Cage fanboys are the worst.
I like FPS, and in fact I have played TitanFall and really enjoyed it, but I also play many games like Gone Home, Journey, Dear Esther, The Walking Dead and even Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit.
My problem isn't the genre of these story stylised interactive experiences, it's purely Cage as a writer, nothing to do with "herp derp not enough shooting and Call of Duty in this game for me thank you very much"
It's incredibly sad to see a creative chance with a large financial backing behind it like this fail in one of its most important and crucial aspects, namely its writing.
The developers are given the extremely lucky and almost unattainable privilege to develop a game that emphasizes its narrative along with high production values and marketing, yet the developers in question *once again* fumble with the opportunity because of a lack of talent and critical approach to their work.
It's very sad to see (not that I didn't expect it).
The developers are given the extremely lucky and almost unattainable privilege to develop a game that emphasizes its narrative along with high production values and marketing, yet the developers in question *once again* fumble with the opportunity because of a lack of talent and critical approach to their work.
It's very sad to see (not that I didn't expect it).
Fucking nailed it.
That's exactly how I felt after finishing the game.