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Killlzone Shadow Fall's SP runs at unlocked frame rate
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
revolverjgw
Member
I hate it when I play a game that usually runs at far less than 60, then you get a brief taste of 60 when you're staring at a wall or a corner of a room or something. I remember this happening even in fuckin' Goldeneye.
Some very good examples in this thread as to why variable frame rate won't be in issue, ie no tearing exists in the videos we have seen, its probably using a triple buffer and the fps must be high enough to warrant it.
It would help the discussion if more people kept up with the thread reasoning rather than reading the op and posting straight away.
It would help the discussion if more people kept up with the thread reasoning rather than reading the op and posting straight away.
Please understand that it's not about trust. There are clear technical specifications regarding the differences between 30/60 as well as locked/unlocked framerates. GG made it's decision and therefore the player has to live with the consequence which will be an inconsistent, therefore stuttering framerate. It has nothing to do with trust.
iamshadowlark
Banned
It's pretty stupid to try and compare framerate differences using the exact same capture.
That's an opinion that has been discussed and seemingly not fact.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Uh what? Have you played the game or something? There's no inherent reason why the framerate would be stuttering or inconsistent even if it's unlocked . The game was designed to be 30fps and for all we know, it consistently hovers around there.
DarkLiberator
Banned
I hope there's not much screen tearing in that case.
It is NOT an opinion. It's a technical fact that an unlocked framerate does stutter. If you notice it or not - that's one different thing. Please differentiate.
"consistently hovers" - you see the mistake? Hovering is not consistent, it's up and down and that will show in the games presentation. If you notice or not - see above. But with an unlocked framerate it's a fact that there will be motion judder/stutter. There is no way around that, no matter how you try to spin it.
None at all, since they are using triple buffering.
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
Infamous does it. Go out on the pier and just stare into the ocean and watch Cole run around like butter.
BronsonLee
Member
Yup, because that's all you clearly did there, except for the whole being insane part, and then straight up taking over the thread with your unrealistic expectations and horrendous comparisons. You made your point...then continued to make it. Over and over and over.
You deal in extreme hyperbole. And I don't really see why.
LightOfTruth
Member
Didn't bother me in the slightest with GOW 3 and I suspect it'll be the same case here.
Aussie Legend
Banned
So its unlocked like plenty of Sony's PS3 games and pretty much every PC game? I'm not too worried
PC games are never unlocked/locked in the sense that it's the users decision. The only Sony PS3 game which comes to my mind which is unlocked is God of War and it's stuttering. And in the case of GoW, they probably did that out of political reasons since DMC and Co. are 60FPS and they knew it was controversial to NOT lock it at 60. They just couldn't decide between graphical premium and maximum gameplay, so they took the middle route and compromised on both ends which, quite frankly, is like in all areas of life a pretty shit decision.
Infamous bothered me a lot with it.
Why do you say that? When it comes to how it would display for the user, it's an exact representation. 60, or 30. It's not like having a lower frame rate, visually, would change anything else (unless a developer specifically designed it to disable things or some really weird left field case).
Both of the image examples are comprised in the same GIF so that there's 0 chance for desync or it being improperly timed.
Because they're both in the came image, one will always display twice as many frames as the other, in the exact same time frame.
Asherdude
Member
I beat that game (as a hero) and I never once noticed it.
A lot of 3DS games do this, like Pilotwings Resort, Luigi's Mansion, Nano Assault, Liberation Maiden, and a few others in my collection. It really serves as a reminder of how awful 30 fps is.
WoolyNinja
Member
We should probably wait until the game comes out before we worry out about this. We really don't know what they even mean by variable. Maybe 98% of the time its 45fps with a couple dips to 30fps? We won't know until we play it for ourselves in less than 3 weeks now!
MadScientist
Banned
An unlocked framerate is the norm rather than the exception on PCs and I have never once heard about someone limiting his framerate to 30 to avoid the downsides.
N7Commander95
Member
I kind of wish it was a Bioshock 2 situation where you could either have it locked at thirty or unlock and have it running between, I think it was 40 - 25 on the 360?
A 30fps game may have some motion blur to compensate the blocky movement for example, along with additonal effects. (It's still degrading data while not providing the temporal information that 60fps can carry; when you are blurring, details are lost, so I'd prefer 60fps)
Oh I see, thanks.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Higher framerate, even if unlocked, gives better control responsiveness and combined with motion blur also does appear smoother than locked 30FPS. There's no denying that playing GoW3 was a better experience than playing GoW:A in terms of framerate. It's a good decision, as long as it being unlocked is not an excuse for it to drop /below/ 30FPS all the time.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Honestly though, who complained about GoW's variable framerate? I never noticed the game coming to a stutter. Maybe I'm not the type who notices framerate drops but I feel that people invest way too much energy concerning themselves with frame rate. It's annoying to see people say "oh such and such runs at 60 fps, it's shameful that another game runs at 30 fps". It was funny that people were saying these things about DC and KZSF in comparison to Forza and other shooters coming out, as if having a higher framerate magically made them better games. A game shouldn't be criticized because it's developers have different priorities than another developer. The developers just chose to push the envelope in other areas of the games creation
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I think a lot of you guys are overthinking this framerate unlocking. PC games are always unlocked and yes, if there are scenes that cause the framerate to drop, you will notice it - barely - depending on how low it goes. On average, you will be fine.
Gif misleading. Cancelling the Apocalypse is not the same as canceling preoder.
So how many people complaining about the unlocked frame were going to buy the game in the first place? Also, God of War 3 ran smooth for me with no screen tearing and it had an unlocked frame rate. I really don't see the problem. Most PC gamers play games at unlocked framerates and they don't complain. I play plenty PC games unlocked. Heck, even most 60fps locked games have judder. Don't get me started on Skyrim.
BRocknRolla
Member
I honestly don't have enough experience in this stuff to know if this is positive or negative (and judging by the responses, it seems apparent there isn't a clear answer.) I spent so much time this gen on the other side of 30fps, with variable framerate that dropped significantly below 30 and definitely effected my experience, but I had very few at 60fps, and never saw a real benefit there. So will I even notice a variable framerate if it's always over 30? I guess I'll have to see for myself.
There is no denying the technical facts. An unlocked framerate is not smoother than locked 30 or 60. The frametimes are constantly off, which is not the case for 30 and 60. If you don't see the stutter - fine for you. GoW3 had constant judder.
I mean sure I guess but that's not what it's meant to be testing. It's not comparing 60 against 30 with added effects and post processing. It's meant to compare 60 to 30 (more accurately 50)
This is only for the time being though. It's not smoother because of displays, not because the framerate isn't locked 30 or 60.
With variable framerate displays coming in, that'll eventually be a non-issue.
But 50FPS is smoother than 30FPS judder or not. Difference between 30 and 50 fps is like night and day to me (where 50 looks waaaaaay better).
edit:
I know now why for me it was smooth. Apperently my TV screen has several different refresh modes. And those modes are used for diffent resolutions. For 1920x1080p and 720o i have 60Hz refresh rate but for anything else it is 50Hz refresh rate. and it can be changed to even 30Hz refresh rate via AMD control panel.
Basically I played 1080p games when my rig was capable running them 60FPS. But when my rig was not enough i changed to 1600x900 resolution and thus i was playing in 50Hz refresh rate.
So literary i had almost always good enough FPS to hit refresh rate of my TV which was dynamic according to AMD catalyst.
I also run always triple buffering with vsync via D3Doverider
How does that sentence make any sense? Judder is what makes it unsmooth to begin with.
Holy, just stop posting already, Jesus.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
I never knew it was unlocked, I just assumed it was dipping into the teens. Infamous had some really bad framerate problems in a lot of the bigger fights.
That's the thing. If the game runs at 60 most of the time, when you drop to 40-30 it looks awful. Having it always at 30 removes that. You don't get 60, but you get a visual constant and it helps the game to look better. CoD has the same problem.
Not really. At the end of the day GG decided on locked 30 FPS at the start of development, now they've reached the end they must of achieved what they wanted graphically with the game but they've found out there's some more juice left to unlock and raise the framerate above 30.
I'm not sure what people are getting worried about; there's a lot of pressure on GG to deliver as the PS4's 1st major launch title, they're not going to unlock the framerate and risk compromising the game when they could just lock it at 30 and call it a day.
Are you kidding me? It's well explained several times in this thread why people don't like the decision to not lock the framerate to 30FPS. At least read some of the posts before posting. Thank you.
Liabe Brave
Member
Yes. For proof, just look at the reactions to the comparison GIFs in this thread. Some people say they can't see or don't mind the difference, so for them Guerrilla's unlock choice is fine. Then you have people who definitely notice and dislike the look of the low-framerate versions. As far as I recall, no one has complained about the look of the high-framerate versions.
Yet the 50fps GIF restriction means that the high-framerate GIFs have exactly as much judder as the low-framerate ones! So the general preference actually seen in this thread is for higher framerate, regardless of judder...which is exactly what Guerrilla have chosen to provide by unlocking the framerate.
Fucking lol, calm your tits.
Before you stroke out I'd say it's best to wait for the final product if the developer says it for the best.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
So instead of having it look awful occasionally they should make it look awful the whole time?
It's still possible that Heider just meant that they're not running an explicit frame limiter and that it's the triple-buffered v-sync that will determine the objective framerate.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
The judder is never greater than the actual frame time at 30fps. Your frametimes would look something like
17ms 17ms 17ms 33ms 17ms 17ms 17ms 33ms 17ms 17ms 17ms 33ms
Whereas at 30fps you get a solid 33ms per frame.
Visual acuity for slight and very brief changes in sampling rate just isn't what you're claiming it is for most people. You're getting more temporal information at 50fps even if the framerate is inconsistent. Your brain is pretty good at filling in the details and smoothing over the edges.
MadScientist
Banned
It's a trade-off and totally subjective what is perceived superior: More frames per second or constant miliseconds per frame. I wonder if the people arguing for a locked framerate have actual experience with games running at 30-60 fps. I have and I know for certain that I perceive 45 fps as smoother as 30 fps.
This website allows everyone to judge for himself:
http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
I believe the biggest problem of an unlocked framerate is not judder, but the fact that some scenes and fights might play at 60 fps, while others play at about 30. But whether this is a problem depends on the game. If e.g. some in-game cutscenes play at 30 fps because the show a big amount of characters, huge explosions, and breathtaking vistas, while the action runs at near 60 fps, an unlocked framerate is certainly an improvement for the vast majority of players.
This website allows everyone to judge for himself:
http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
I believe the biggest problem of an unlocked framerate is not judder, but the fact that some scenes and fights might play at 60 fps, while others play at about 30. But whether this is a problem depends on the game. If e.g. some in-game cutscenes play at 30 fps because the show a big amount of characters, huge explosions, and breathtaking vistas, while the action runs at near 60 fps, an unlocked framerate is certainly an improvement for the vast majority of players.
boredandlazy
Member
Some Nobody
Junior Member
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Eh, if a game judders at 40 fps it judders at 25 fps too, you've got the same problem in both cases. Only at exactly 60, 30, 20, etc, can every frame be displayed for the same amount of time. But maybe you just meant varying framerate.