MeBecomingI
Member
I'm alright with this. I think an option to maybe lock it or unlock it would be great, but I'll take it.
I can't argue with ignorance... :X
No no no. This is factually incorrect.
GOW3's framerate is brilliant IMO. I experienced zero judder, and the game felt smooth as butter.Dark, don't you think most people have a level of tolerance above 30 fps? Inconsistent at 20-30 is very jarring (separate from frame judder), and consistently slow at 20 fps, like most N64 games, is very distracting. I think that, for the vast majority, inconsistent but faster than 30 actually yields the impression that the game is much smoother than it is running. This is why you are seeing such positive feedback about God of War 3, no?
I don't have issues with framerate typically. I'm much, much more affected by blur resulting from subnative resolutions.
The new footage *IS* the proof. There's nothing else to explain.you keep arguing that there isn't any tearing, i asked you before, do you any proof of this? an article where they explain that the game is in fact triple buffered? im still waiting for you to back your comments with proof, im still waiting
You really clearly do not understand how this works, I see.And no it isn't, with a variable framerate, you will have moments of butter smoothness, and other's not so much. At a locked 30, you will have consistently "not so much". How is higher framerate at times less smooth than just lower framerate? What your saying makes no sense. Is it less consistent? Absolutely. But don't confuse smoothness and consistency. A car driving 30-60 miles per hour at any given point will get to the destination quicker than a car doing a constant 30.
GOW3's framerate is brilliant IMO. I experienced zero judder, and the game felt smooth as butter.
Yeah, I think it's just a mix of inability to see what we're talking about and pure ignorance on how displays work. I mean, logically, it would seem like more frames per second WOULD be smoother but, due to the nature of displays, that's not the case.Dark, don't you think most people have a level of tolerance above 30 fps? Inconsistent at 20-30 is very jarring (separate from frame judder), and consistently slow at 20 fps, like most N64 games, is very distracting. I think that, for the vast majority, inconsistent but faster than 30 actually yields the impression that the game is much smoother than it is running. This is why you are seeing such positive feedback about God of War 3, no?
I don't have issues with framerate typically. I'm much, much more affected by blur resulting from subnative resolutions.
Killzone SF is triple-buffered so it doesn't screen tear.
Variable framerates will make it judder though. It means that framerate variations will make some frames show twice and others not (since the TV hz is in no way synced to the Console fps, something which G-Sync or locked 30/60 fixes btw). This means that the game will seem to stutter or 'speed up' and down even if you pan the camera at a constant speed.
It has to be as a result of logical conclusion.Has this actually been stated to be the case?
It has to be as a result of logical conclusion.
1) The most recent footage, as we've seen, does not feature tearing
2) If the framerate is unlocked and v-sync were disengaged we would be seeing tearing almost 100% of the time (basically any time it couldn't hold 60 fps). So all footage would be full of non-stop tearing.
3) Double buffering would result in 30 fps if it could not sustain 60 fps, so we know it's not using that
Triple buffering is literally THE only way to achieve framerates between 30 and 60 fps without constant screen tearing so they HAVE to be using it. There simply is no other option.
Yeah, I think it's just a mix of inability to see what we're talking about and pure ignorance on how displays work. I mean, logically, it would seem like more frames per second WOULD be smoother but, due to the nature of displays, that's not the case.
But most people are reacting to the response time of the controls when they talk about smoothness, IMO, not necessarily how long particular frames are on screen. Which is why I think most people can't detect it.
I think we're going to have to agree that our definition of "smooth" must be different. Judder != smooth. It's faster, not smoother.Well even if we were just talking about the visual display rate, it is in fact smoother. No matter how many ways you cut the pie, more frames in a second will be smoother. Again I stress that it won't be as consistent, but it will in fact be smoother. I don't know if anyone in their sound mind would argue that GOW3 felt less smooth than Uncharted 2 for example. At times, GOW3 felt ridiculously smooth, and that never hit 60FPS as far as I know.
I think we're going to have to agree that our definition of "smooth" must be different.
God of War 3 did actually hit 60 fps in quite a few areas, I should note, and generally ran closer to 60 fps than 30. Killzone seems to average lower than God of War by quite a bit from what we're hearing.
It really varies per area, to be honest. There were a number of areas where it averages closer to 60 and some others than fall more into the lower 40s. Ascension was quite a bit lower as well. Still, with the on-rails camera it never felt as jarring as it does in a game with a freely controllable camera.I thought the average framerate of God of War 3 was in the low 40s...are you sure it was "closer to 60"?
But dark is trying to explain to you that more frames is not necessarily smoother, lol. It's certainly objectively faster, but it isn't smoother. There's judder. Frames are on screen for uneven amounts of time!
Just admit that you really know nothing about this topic and move on.Of course there's judder, but as I mentioned earlier, staying at a locked 30 will just produce all that much more natural motion blur. You have less frames being displayed every second. If you are at anything higher framewise, you will naturally cut down on that blur. 30 Frames per second will never be "smoother" than 45 frames person second. When you are locked at 30, you are locked at a blurrier image.
Just admit that you really know nothing about this topic and move on.
What you're saying would actually be true on a G-Sync enabled monitor, however.
I think we're arguing over the word "smoother", quite frankly.No, I just think you and I are on paths to different countries...
As you mentioned with the numbers earlier, a locked 30 would be 1 1, 2 2, 3 3, etc etc etc. Or 30 frames in one second. I'm arguing that anything above that number would still be more frames in a second, regardless of the consistency. 30 frames in a second is clearly more stable, I'm not arguing that, but it's less frames being displayed in that second. That's all there is to it. If you can eliminate tearing, you'll get a smoother image.
I think we're arguing over the word "smoother", quite frankly.
Dark, don't you think most people have a level of tolerance above 30 fps? Inconsistent at 20-30 is very jarring (separate from frame judder), and consistently slow at 20 fps, like most N64 games, is very distracting. I think that, for the vast majority, inconsistent but faster than 30 actually yields the impression that the game is much smoother than it is running. This is why you are seeing such positive feedback about God of War 3, no?
I don't have issues with framerate typically. I'm much, much more affected by blur resulting from subnative resolutions.
I don't think some of you realize how much this will fuck up your input. 60fps is superior because of the fact your inputs are registered quicker and are much more responsive. 30fps is fine and manageable but the higher, the better. But having it go back and forth constantly is going to interfere waaaaaaay too much and become really annoying. Thank goodness the MP is locked though, right?
Not necessarily. When the framerate goes above 30 it will feel smoother, but when it goes back down you'll get the opposite effect. It'll feel less smooth than locked 30fps. And then there's the judder too.Well even if we were just talking about the visual display rate, it is in fact smoother. No matter how many ways you cut the pie, more frames in a second will be smoother. Again I stress that it won't be as consistent, but it will in fact be smoother.
Static images flashing on a screen don't produce motion blur, lol.Of course there's judder, but as I mentioned earlier, staying at a locked 30 will just produce all that much more natural motion blur. You have less frames being displayed every second. If you are at anything higher framewise, you will naturally cut down on that blur. 30 Frames per second will never be "smoother" than 45 frames person second. When you are locked at 30, you are locked at a blurrier image.
Not necessarily. When the framerate goes above 30 it will feel smoother, but when it goes back down you'll get the opposite effect. It'll feel less smooth than locked 30fps. And then there's the judder too.
Static images flashing on a screen don't produce motion blur, lol.
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 24fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will yield a smoother form of animation.
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 24fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will yield a smoother form of animation.
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
They are the same.
I don't think some of you realize how much this will fuck up your input. 60fps is superior because of the fact your inputs are registered quicker and are much more responsive. 30fps is fine and manageable but the higher, the better. But having it go back and forth constantly is going to interfere waaaaaaay too much and become really annoying. Thank goodness the MP is locked though, right?
Using Firefox, they do actually look very close. The one on the right looks a little more choppy, but it's not a night and day difference.They are the same.
Using Firefox, they do actually look very close. The one on the right looks a little more choppy, but it's not a night and day difference.
When I open the gif in Chrome, though, it's really obvious.
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 30fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will appear smoother to the naked eye..
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 30fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will appear smoother to the naked eye..
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
The right one obviously, but I don't think using a gif with such jarring animation (the character, not the gif itself) is the best way to test framerate.
Unless that's the point, to make it harder to tell.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 30fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will appear smoother to the naked eye..
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
http://i.minus.com/ilu3oMbBsXsT1.gif[img][/QUOTE]
[SPOILER]60 left, 30 right[/SPOILER]
[quote="ghst, post: 87572803"]fortunately, killzone vets are pretty well equipped to handle a little input lag.[/QUOTE]
Damn.