Yep. And it's why I might seriously pass on KZSF. I cannot stand it. So hopefully some reviews will talk about if it happens often, so I'll know if I ever buy the game.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Killlzone Shadow Fall's SP runs at unlocked frame rate
- Thread starter SniperHunter
- Start date
Yep. And it's why I might seriously pass on KZSF. I cannot stand it. So hopefully some reviews will talk about if it happens often, so I'll know if I ever buy the game.
SniperHunter
Banned
Ahh thanks for clearing that up
So am I to understand that with Triple Buffering, you can achieve smooth framerates with zero screen tearing while allowing the framerates to exceed 30fps? So a 40-50 FPS game can be rendered properly with no tearing due to Triple Buffering on a 60hz display?
Why isn't this implemented more often if this is true?
Why isn't this implemented more often if this is true?
GameAddict411
Member
You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day the developers will choose what's best for their games.
DerZuhälter
Member
Oh my god! Variable framerate? What a mess!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=622a0zBwZpk#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnydQ4t0aU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=622a0zBwZpk#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnydQ4t0aU
VFX_Veteran
Banned
Because you need an extra framebuffer that can hold the same amount of data from the other 2 buffers (i.e. it requires more video RAM) on top of being able to have the throughput to render to said buffer in time to be swapped into the front buffer. The current gen consoles were pushed enough as it is trying to render to 1 framebuffer.
IcyBlueStrawberry
Member
Because games look like ass when the framerate is bouncing around between 30 and 60.
If the system can't keep up with the monitor, you get some frames staying on screen for 2 refresh cycles and some for 1. When this happens, the game looks like it's chugging.
GameAddict411
Member
Triple buffering requires a lot of VRAM which as you know was incredibly limited on current gen of consoles. That's why it was never used.
Forget reviews and forget GAF hive mind when we are talking about framerate issues. Only a few persons around here are critical enough to give you realistic information about framerate issues. Think about TLOU.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
DerZuhälter;87576940 said:
I still marvel at their wizardry, especially with how Ascension looked with that engine.
Because it is not true.
They will choose what they think they can sell better.
Micromegas
Member
Screen-tearing = I will cancel my pre-order. This is no bullshit. Screen-tearing is unacceptable now, and it's doubleplusunacceptable next gen.
DirtyLarry
Member
I may not have as in depth knowledge about graphics as other members do, however what I do have is faith.
Guerilla Games are near damn wizards with what they have been able to achieve visually not only on Shadows Fall but for their entire damn existence working on consoles, and most recently, handhelds.
As such, I have faith they would ultimately choose what makes for the better overall experience. It certainly sounds like it is the case that they could have chosen to lock the game at 30 FPS if they wanted to, but for whatever reasons they chose not to. I just cannot see how they would make a detrimental decision in regards to how the game looks visually.
Perhaps I am wrong, and a tear fest is incoming on launch day, I just give them more credit then that.
Guerilla Games are near damn wizards with what they have been able to achieve visually not only on Shadows Fall but for their entire damn existence working on consoles, and most recently, handhelds.
As such, I have faith they would ultimately choose what makes for the better overall experience. It certainly sounds like it is the case that they could have chosen to lock the game at 30 FPS if they wanted to, but for whatever reasons they chose not to. I just cannot see how they would make a detrimental decision in regards to how the game looks visually.
Perhaps I am wrong, and a tear fest is incoming on launch day, I just give them more credit then that.
You are good to go then. No tearing.
Lambda Pie
Banned
ugh, nothing more jarring than wildly variable framerate.
SniperHunter
Banned
There is no screen tearing in this game. I acnt even remember the last Sony game that had screen tearing. Maybe wipeout on vita?
Micromegas
Member
Thank the gods.
Punkster_NY
Member
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
the one on the right is 30, left doesn't look quite 60 more like 50.
I think one was 50 the other was 25 cause gifs have a max fps cutoff of 50 or something.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
DerZuhälter;87576940 said:
HUGE fucking difference from a mostly overhead brawler with no direct camera control & a FPS with large draw distances & variable amount of on screen characters at any one time.
KZ:SF is guaranteed to drop below 30fps, unlike the GOW games, & it will look like shit for the parts that go 20fps to 50fps in a split second.
Unlocked framerates in FPS or any games where you can fully manipulate the camera is a bad bad idea.
I still don't understand why they won't just lower the resolution slight so they can achieve 60fps.
900p with 60fps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1080p with 30fps!
RedRedSuit
Member
GoW III had a tear every now and then. Uncharted 1 was Tear City.
SniperHunter
Banned
God of war 3 had tripple buffering. Uncharted 1 was released in 2007...
SPACECADET
Member
this really isn't going to be an issue for me. unless framerate hits below 20, i've never been bothered.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune was also part of the first wave of PS3 games, just like KZ:SF is part of the first wave of PS4 games. I'm willing to cut titles released in the first year/year and a half some slack when it comes to graphics.
I mean just take Naughty Dog's games for example. Look at UC1, UC2, UC3, and TLOU and see how much it improves each time.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I cannot comment on Uncharted 1, but you are factually incorrect about GOW3. It had no tearing.
I don't think I'll be bothered by the variable framerate. As long as the game runs smooth and doesn't judder, I'll live with it. Otherwise, I would like them to include the option of locking the framerate to 30 - would prefer them to give the player the option to decide what they want to do as opposed to having one or the other. Who knows, perhaps the unlocked framerate feels and looks superior to locking the game at 30FPS!
ProfessorMoran
Member
It was used in uncharted 2 and 3, and TLOU.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Again, flashing screens don't produce motion blur. That's why it's added in games as a post-process effect.
No, it's because it made it look like a soap-opera. And it didn't remove any motion blur, for that it would have been required to record with different cameras with a smaller exposure time.
I don't think it'll get that high or that low. It sounds like the only reason they unlocked it is because it's fairly steady around 40 or so.
Hawk269
Member
Agree. I hate fluctuating frame rates. It is better that they lock it at whatever rate, but don't let it be unlocked. There could be scenes with no enemies and it be running at 60, then you have an enemy encounter and it drops to 30 or so...that would be jarring to say the least.
Pop
Member
The thing is it's not going to reach 60 in sp. That vid from yesterday showed that it was running between 35-40fps perfectly.
BronsonLee
Member
Well, what I remember about TLOU framerate is you singlehandedly ruining that Digital Foundry thread with your elitist insanity, soooo....
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
YouTube doesn't go over 30fps so there is no way to see what's really going on from the videos.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Have you ever played a variable frame rate game?
It's only jarring when going from 90fps to 30 for me. When you fluctuate from 30-50 it's not as bad and I'm definitely apt to notice it.
We've dealt with it before on consoles and will deal with it again.
thunder_snail
Member
DerZuhälter;87576940 said:
Unlocked frame rate have its advantages and disadvantages over v-synced frame rate. And those videos encoded in 30fps do not show any of its advantages.
It would be most ideal if GG gave us an option to toggle it though. The fact that it can run at unlocked frame rate higher than 30fps means they can lock it down to 30fps too. I guess testers have played at both 30 and unlocked and determined unlocked plays better.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87580645&highlight=#post87580645
As expected. hahahaha
Let the meltdowns and salty tears commence!
Am I missing something here?
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Locked 30fps or Locked 60fps please.
It disrupts the immersion whenever your framerate drops every time there's an explosion.
It disrupts the immersion whenever your framerate drops every time there's an explosion.
This is about limitations in display tech, not their engine.
I think a lot of the misunderstanding here is from semantics.
"smooth" should be how many frames in a given sec can be made. The higher the frames in a given second, the smoother the animation. That's just a fact. But keep in mind we are talking about a "constant" number. Not a fluctuation. For example, if I run a 10 min clip of gameplay and I can squeeze 30fps locked, and then compare it to the same 10min clip running 60fps locked, the latter scenario will appear smoother to the naked eye..
Here is a test: In DS on the PC, you could choose between 30fps and 60fps both locked with VSYNC enabled.
Can you tell which one is 30fps?
Oh jeeze.
I made that Dark Souls frame rate comparison GIF and it's a really bad example, also you made up some stuff about it.
The maximum a GIF can render at is 50fps, so it's comparing the relative difference between 60 and 30, starting at 50. Also, there's no VSync enabled or anything. I just rendered at 60fps, then cut the framerate in half for one.
In hindsight, the animations I chose are a bad example and I've made better examples since.
I made an updated post with a lot more examples from a lot of different genres, I'll post some here.
First Person Shooter
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Third Person Action
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Racing
Those gifs are excellent at illustrating the frame rate differences. Almost got me with the last one.All the non f-zero gifs had 60fps on top
It's actually meant to be done sort of like a quiz!
Part 1
Part 2
I recorded examples from a big sampling of genres so people could determine how important they felt the framerate difference was relative to that genre.
I did
First person shooter
Third Person Action
Racing
2D Platformer
Fighting
Turn Based Strategy
Third Person Action
Racing
2D Platformer
Fighting
Turn Based Strategy
It has the answers on the bottom of the posts. I think 2D platformer and racing are two of the most noticeable.
How can you ruin a DF thread by talking about framerate? That's the whole point.
The GIFs are excellent, thanks. They really underline why next gen consoles are completly uninteressting to me. I simply can not play games at 30FPS anymore. Maybe, just maybe, if the game would be super amazing CGI like looking, I'd think about it...but as it is now, we get PC graphics at 1080/30 mostly. Well, 720/30 that is for X1.
Guys, stop doing gif test for 60fps. (Tho Alo81's examples are MUCH better than the swordsmen on black background)
There are many browsers that cannot display gif that fast, you are doing a dis-service.
Alo81's examples are good, because it shows some camera action addition to on screen objects moving. The swordsmen example is utterly pointless (tho I personally can easily tell which is 60fps) as we don't play games like that, with an object fixed in the middle with black background. Show us moving backgrounds (the receipts) and we'll talk.
However, as browsers may have problems displaying things at 60fps, the examples may fall flat on their faces, and the user may find no difference.
I'll try to prepare a universally good 60fps html5 test (like those flash based examples with a fps check but I'll also add a visual clue to see whether the test is running properly.) when I have the time.
There are many browsers that cannot display gif that fast, you are doing a dis-service.
Alo81's examples are good, because it shows some camera action addition to on screen objects moving. The swordsmen example is utterly pointless (tho I personally can easily tell which is 60fps) as we don't play games like that, with an object fixed in the middle with black background. Show us moving backgrounds (the receipts) and we'll talk.
However, as browsers may have problems displaying things at 60fps, the examples may fall flat on their faces, and the user may find no difference.
I'll try to prepare a universally good 60fps html5 test (like those flash based examples with a fps check but I'll also add a visual clue to see whether the test is running properly.) when I have the time.
The best way to experience the FPS difference is playing like 1 hour (current gen console) Battlefield 3 and then immediately any CoD multiplayer game. You'll be extremely surprised.
But yeah regarding KZ:SF, it depends from game to game. Maybe it does look and feel better than locked 30 fps... we'll see. You can trust GG or not. I for once, believe!
But yeah regarding KZ:SF, it depends from game to game. Maybe it does look and feel better than locked 30 fps... we'll see. You can trust GG or not. I for once, believe!