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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
- Start date
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Partial Gamification
Banned
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av_kcTrf_YFedFNZRVVRQmVJanVNVE9ic2t4VnpvRVE&usp=sharing#gid=0
Courtesty of mateomax [<- link is to] list [thread] on the FM5 forum.
This is dumb for a multitude of reasons, not least of which the fact that any game with a microtransaction system is balanced around the idea that they want you to spend more money.
Assume you're not going to buy any microtransaction content regardless, in any case, for any game. Game A has no microtransactions, while similar Game B does not.
Game B will always be more of a grind than Game A, because the publishers aren't going to put out microtransactions that they don't want anyone to buy. The very fact that gameplay-relevant microtransactions exist for a game alters the design of the game, so you're going to have a worse experience even if you don't buy anything.
This is a near universal truth.
Storm Chamber
Banned
I get the strangest feeling they wouldnt have done anything if there was no backlash.
Yeah, I wouldn't be suprised if they update the car prizes and rewards in the future and give the same excuse.
"Oops, miscalculated those numbers. Will never happen again, we promise!! ^^ <3"
goldsoundz
Member
Keep up this bullshit Microsoft. It'll save me $500.
Partial Gamification
Banned
The request by Helios was made in another thread. A confirmation would be appreciated.
No it isn't you silly! It is not a lesser experience because I'm having so much fun with it without spending a penny!
That's the problem: Having fun, enjoyment, the thing that makes people failed to recognized the potentially exploitative scheme that loom over the video game industry.
Hahaha. If there's one thing I've learned over the last decade, it's to never give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.
It still would have been there, and worse, you wouldn't be able to return the game once you found out that you got fucked hard by T10.
I find that Japanese vs. US corporate mentality is different when it comes to these things. GT6 isn't releasing with day-one locked DLC on disc is it?
I tweeted @Sony, @Yosp and @Playstation the OP of this thread and told them that unless a game is F2P, this mess shouldn't take place.
More people that do that, the better.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Sucks. I'll be extending my recently amended policies regarding pre-ordering and day one purchases to include all games ever. Publishers typically don't let you know about this kind of shit before the game's already out.
This F2P design that's more about psychological manipulation and maximizing revenue, less about making the game better, and in some cases actively making it worse, needs to burn in shit and die.
This F2P design that's more about psychological manipulation and maximizing revenue, less about making the game better, and in some cases actively making it worse, needs to burn in shit and die.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Are you not reading the thread or are you being willfully ignorant? It's DOES still affect people who choose not to use it. It's affects them when the credit accumulation system has changed to encourage people to spend real money to speed it up. It affects them when people don't push back and more and more games begin to use microtransactions. It affects them when publishers see a lack of puch-back and start to fleece consumers in other ways LIKE $20 DAY ONE DLC.
Quit being so damn obtuse.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Wait, am I reading this right, you can still earn them in game?
If that's the case then I fully back Turn10. Hopefully these ridiculous prices will turn people off to the idea of microtransactions and just earn it themselves and that'll be a step in the right direction.
If that's the case then I fully back Turn10. Hopefully these ridiculous prices will turn people off to the idea of microtransactions and just earn it themselves and that'll be a step in the right direction.
Except the DRM-using, no-used-games PC versions of big publisher games are also filled with bullshit microtransactions.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, as said before, Turn10 and/or Microsoft are doing their best to try and turn people to microstransactions (higher ingame costs for car, less rewards, bought DLC cars are not available in freeplay mode).
And that is not a step in the right direction.
Microsotransactions affect game design. That's the problem.
NoPiece
Member
This totally bums me out. I already can't afford a Ferrari in real life, which is why I like to play driving sims. But I don't have the time to spend unlocking cars, and I don't really have the extra money for DLC either. I just want to spend my $59 and drive whatever car I want, at least in free play mode. Locking in career is OK, but only if just playing through career unlocks cars. This becomes a terrible value proposition...
Star Falcon
Member
It's horrible. The Forza series has been steadily improving in quality in each installment, but this one is just an inferior product.
Sure, the improved visuals and such are nice to have - but the amount of content has been cut in more than half, and this monetization scheme is insulting.
Sure, the improved visuals and such are nice to have - but the amount of content has been cut in more than half, and this monetization scheme is insulting.
transformer
Member
Tunes work the same way. You can download liveries and tunes free of charge and the creator gets paid. I'm not sure how much you get paid, but I just posted my first livery and will find out soon.
sleeprockss
Banned
The microtransactions didn't bother me in Forza 4 or Horizon and I'm pretty sure they won't bother me in forza 5 either. But it's bullshit that they are still charging for dlc while still having microtransactions. Games like mass effect 3 and gta online are good because their dlc is free due to how much money they make off of the transactions.
transformer
Member
Not many at all. You start with a free sport compact car (e.g. Subaru BRZ, honda S2000, etc.). If you consider that type of car a good car, then zero races. If not, then after completing the first career portion in that car you will have > $100k credits giving you the ability to buy some pretty impressive cars. This will take about an hour to do and consists of less than 10 races. I think eight, but I cannot recall the exact count.
So one thing that I interpreted wrongly:
You still can rent cars in free play without spending credits, you just get a limited car selection. But there are some nice picks in it. This is basically the same as in GT5.
I never owned Froza 4, only played it a bit. Was it different there? Could you rent any car, not just one out of a limited selection?
You still can rent cars in free play without spending credits, you just get a limited car selection. But there are some nice picks in it. This is basically the same as in GT5.
I never owned Froza 4, only played it a bit. Was it different there? Could you rent any car, not just one out of a limited selection?
NullPointer
Member
Yep. This is why you don't see anything like this with the digital download versions of games.
Oh wait...
You absolutely can earn them through in-game credits.
Persona RS
Member
In Forza 4, you could play with ANY car in Free Play (Hot Lap).
velociraptor
Junior Member
Turn 10's strategy is fucking retarded.
You pay for DLC, and then you have to either grind credits or pay for tokens to unlock said car.
Instead of using #greatness awaits, xbox pr should had used: #This is 4thegamers
I for one welcome this with open arms. Now nobody playing Forza has the I don't have time because I have a job excuse. If you're employed you can fork out £80 for a virtual car.
bets on Forza 5's thread title being mod abused to: " Forza 5 - Ker ching." ?
/honestly, I hate the policy, but I doubt it'd be this bad when the dust settles. This is just teething problems, isn't it?
I for one welcome this with open arms. Now nobody playing Forza has the I don't have time because I have a job excuse. If you're employed you can fork out £80 for a virtual car.
bets on Forza 5's thread title being mod abused to: " Forza 5 - Ker ching." ?
/honestly, I hate the policy, but I doubt it'd be this bad when the dust settles. This is just teething problems, isn't it?
theignoramus
Member
oh my god, is it really $100 for that Lotus F1 car? if so, that's fucking repugnant
theignoramus
Member
I bought tokens for Forza 4 to buy the old 50s era Ferraris, Mercedes and Jaguars. Bought an Alfa Romeo Stradale too. But the tokens were fairly priced and I felt I saved a lot of time in repetitious grinding. But holy fuck, theyve taken it to the next level. An evil level.
SkullHydra
Member
Don't worry, you can earn in game credits to buy it too!
Just play for a minimum of 15+ straight hours for that single car!
Partial Gamification
Banned
One does have other options too, one could buy a bunch of pizza:
edit: clarification:
theignoramus
Member
Just wow. does anyone have an estimate as to how long it would take to earn the credits to buy cars that cost millions?
First place finish, AI set to expert, no assists, rewind button off for an 8 lap race. whats the payout?
First place finish, AI set to expert, no assists, rewind button off for an 8 lap race. whats the payout?
weekend_warrior
Banned
Somebody with the game said it would be about 50 hours of grinding for the $6 million the Lotus cost.
You already paid the asking price for the game, yet you're grateful that you were allowed to pay extra money to access its content?
Just think about that for a moment.
theignoramus
Member
brtual. I think we have a key reason why endurance races and their massive payouts disappeared from Forza games when in-game tokens appeared.
I have no experience of racing games, but is that the norm? 50 hours grinding = the best car? Just looking for a point of reference here. I want to know if the grind has been artificially inflated so as to make buying your way there more attractive.
Other ways to earn money have been severely throttled compared to FM4.
theignoramus
Member
The token pricing in Forza 4 was reasonable. you could buy a Lambo Sesto Elemento for the equivalent of like 3 bucks. cars that cost 9,000,000 in game credits could be had for a few dollars.
also, you had the auction house as an option.
Estimates range anywhere from 15 to 50 hours of racing in order to get it.
I played the shit out of Forza 3 for a few weeks straight. I had the vast majority of the cars just from doing the career mode and it didn't start to feel tedious until the really high end cars were all that was left, along with the gamut of 40 lap races. I opted to let the cpu simulate those while I did something else and I had a friend gift me the cars I couldn't afford. I would say I played maybe for 60-70 hours total. I could maybe see it being double that length of time If I had opted to grind it all out (I'm not good enough to play on expert mode with all the assists off for extra money), but by that point I had had enough.
Good to see some coverage of this by sites other than Eurogamer. Hopefully more sites pick it up soon.
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