From the Russian government... which was well known even before today. Just today the US announced new sanctions because of the flow of weaponry from Russia
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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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From the Russian government... which was well known even before today. Just today the US announced new sanctions because of the flow of weaponry from Russia
Not anymore, you're not.
Little Old Man
Member
Why do so many seem on edge here? WW3 nor anything like that is about to happen.
Anyway, my thoughts go out to the families of those on board.
All airlines will avoid flying over this part of the world now for sure, no company will risk the hit to its public perception of safety.
Anyway, my thoughts go out to the families of those on board.
All airlines will avoid flying over this part of the world now for sure, no company will risk the hit to its public perception of safety.
Of course they do. They are still using Soviet SAMs and those are very capable.
Even SAM system from the 60s can shoot down an airline, which has no defense of any kind. If the rebel did this, chances are they captured the SAM from Ukraine military.
I dunno, I don't think the 2 are mutually exclusive. I doubt they target something and a little red light comes on that says "Civilian Airliner Targeted."
Gemüsepizza
Member
What? Where did you get this from?
There was a AN-26 shot down:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334
I don't know where people are getting this mix-up thing from?
Dutch passenger posted this picture on FB 7 hours ago with the text
"If it goes missing, this is how it looks like."
On board was also his wife/girlfriend
What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.
Dreams-Visions
Member
welp.
The question isn't one of intent; it's one of what the limits of the technology are. Why would a targeting system like this not have at least some sort of method to differentiate between commercial and military vehicles? If it does, did they know how to use it?
PhantomHound
Banned
BBC and Fox news are now saying that it's possible a military jet shot it down.
I blame Tom Clancy.
Like I said earlier, they have claimed downings of other planes in the past that were flying much higher than 3km ... (unless there's more than one group here and I'm mixing them up!)
Locke Lamora
Member
Simon Shuster @shustry · 2 Min.
Spoke to Ukraine separatist leader Tsarev. Says they don't have the weapons to take down #MH17. Hung up when asked about their BUK missiles
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/489817136408178688
Spoke to Ukraine separatist leader Tsarev. Says they don't have the weapons to take down #MH17. Hung up when asked about their BUK missiles
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/489817136408178688
CreeperBlocks
Banned
On board was also his wife/girlfriend
What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.
Fuck, this is depressing
MisterFalcon
Member
Dude, you obviously cant see that from 30k feet below.... Theyre just a dot in the radar screen...
A 777 is much, much faster then a propellor driven An-26.
But it could well be the same as the Vincennes shooting down the Iranian Airbus where someone switched distance with altitude that made it seem the plane was in a dive.
god damn...that's fucked up
Wind's Howling
Member
Gemüsepizza;121448431 said:
There is an awful lot of speculation going on so this type of news will get mixed up quite frequently.
This post can not be quoted enough, though.
gross.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
What is this guy saying?
edit:
17.07.2014 17:50 Message from [I forget how to translate this word... it's military related, I believe it's from higher ranking people]
"Just shot down an AN-26 plane on Toreza area, crashed around the the Progress mine.
We warned them about flying in "our sky".
And here's a video confirming another "plane falling". [He says something along the lines of "birdfall" but I figure this would be clearer]
The bird fell past the territory, living sector was not hit.
Civilians Peaceful people were not hurt.
And there's also information about a second plane being shot down, looks to be a SU."
Supposedly (according to twitter) the translation isn't an admission of guilt but a statement of what happened. The english translation is saying something that's not in the Russian (again according to twitter I don't know russian).
I agree, the evidence is damning to support the possibility MH17 was shot down, but we need definitive confirmation.
Dutch passenger posted this picture on FB 7 hours ago with the text
"If it goes missing, this is how it looks like."
Goddamn.
SniperHunter
Banned
jesus christ
Is it for certain that it wasn't an accident?
helloresolven
Member
Stupid news asking if this is terrorism. This is war, not terrorism. Christ, idiots.
Xyrmellon
Member
For those thinking the rebels didn't have long range SAM'S:
Steve Herman ‏@W7VOA · 7m
Rebels claimed to have acquired BUK unit when they took control of #Ukraine air-defense base №А-1402 June 29.
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030 #MH17
Steve Herman ‏@W7VOA · 7m
Rebels claimed to have acquired BUK unit when they took control of #Ukraine air-defense base №А-1402 June 29.
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030 #MH17
The rebels don't have planes. So the Ukrainians would have to be insanely incompetent to even fire an anti-air missile.
On board was also his wife/girlfriend
What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.
I'm guessing you'd find a Facebook post like that for most Malaysian Airlines flights since the missing plane.
RustyNails
Member
NYT reporter Ellen Barry (https://twitter.com/EllenBarryNYT/status/489800836625596416):
Per Interfax: Pro-Russian militia leaders deny involvement. "We simply do not have such air defense systems," MANPADs reach only 4000m.
Per Interfax: Pro-Russian militia leaders deny involvement. "We simply do not have such air defense systems," MANPADs reach only 4000m.
A cursory glance of the various missiles for the BUK system suggests that they can reach altitudes from 11km up to 50km.
So I'm having a hard time believing the rebels.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Welp
Exactly, I said 70s on the last page but you're correct. The control and command needed to take down an airline is pretty rudimentary, tbh. First gen thermal targeting will easily lock on to those gigantic GE engines .
Cow Mengde
Banned
Well, I think we know who's lying in this case.
Wind's Howling
Member
Oh, wait. Really? Are they just shooting planes at random there? Damn.
"I woke up with a hangover. Fuck it, let me shoot another plane down"
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
This is a false flag attack to get popular support for NATO to do the bidding of the western energy interests. New tougher sanctions the day before this is not a coincidence, but a chance to corner Russia. To bad for the west, China won't play ball despite of this false flag... and Europe will be left without Russian gas very shortly if they try anything.
It disgusts me that someone has it for the poor Malaysian people.
It disgusts me that someone has it for the poor Malaysian people.
Doubtful. I agree with the other gaffer, if it was the military, they have rules of engagement and wouldn't go trigger happy just because they saw a plane in the sky.
Even on a radar screen there is a massive difference between an aircraft at 35k ft and a cruising speed of 905km/h and an aircraft moving at 440km/h with a service ceiling of 7300ft.
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