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Ubi - "Wii U owners don't buy AC", Watch_Dogs their last M-rated WiiU release.

StevieP

Banned
The PS4 launched and made profit for each machine at launch, at a decent margin. Pachter estimated $275 build price per console. Wii U launched at $299, had a deluxe at $349 and still managed to lose money on even Deluxe units. They're still forecasting breaking even on consoles as they sell, 20 months after launch.

Somewhere along the line there was a huge design mistake.

And it's not like they were without options 20 months ago either.

Laughable. BOM estimates on the net are all BS, and the console was initially sold for a loss.

Every console BoM I've ever seen has been way under. Either that or the hardware manufacturers are straight up hiding profits, which makes no sense when you have to answer to investors.

Yeah, this.

Well except for that whole online network thing, the hardware being based on an architecture that was hard to develop for, and the last 2 years of the system.

The last 2 years of Wii were the fault of Nintendo and all third parties for dropping the ball. Both of them. Market leaders traditionally were properly supported by A-team efforts by publishers to continue momentum. The Wii pretty well never was. There was still lots of software sold despite it.

The extended generational length, though, was entirely the fault of Sony and ms for completely dropping the ball with their hardware design/cost and everyone requiring more time to make back their investments. They dun fucked up by letting it go that long.
 
The issue is that even Nintendo fans treat the Nintendo home consoles as second consoles exclusively for playing Nintendo first party titles. In such an environment, third parties porting titles is pointless and the sales reflect that.
 

heidern

Junior Member
Well except for that whole online network thing, the hardware being based on an architecture that was hard to develop for, and the last 2 years of the system.

Nintendo used new IP to create a new expanded audience with the Wii. Third parties had the option of expanding development and targeting these customers, possibly with new high quality IP. Online networks were not relevent to this audience. The audience was attained before the last 2 years so that's not relevent. The architecture wasn't great but that's minutaie considering the development costs were lower. The cost of an extra programmer or two is less than the cost of ten or twenty artists so on the development side the Wii was a far superior proposition to the X360/PS3.

Of course there's the risk that if a third party targeted the audience they would fail and lose money. Perhaps higher risk than the proven business on Sony/MS. But the lower development costs would have mitigated this. Ultimately, without risk there is no reward. Third parties didn't take the risk so they didn't get the reward by default.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Yep, not blaming them. Like it or not they're not a non-profit organization, they're a company that has to worry about turning profits, and for several reasons it's hard to do that on the Wii U right now. Can't say they didn't try.
 
It's kind of rich to concurrently fault third parties for the types of games they supported the Wii, while decrying third parties for their focus on genres aimed at the narrower core market. Those games had quality in different dimensions that were clearly valued by a different portion of the market. Just Dance was a quality effort at appealing to a certain audience and as such it grew into an immensely successful franchise.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Funding indies; if it doesn't work then losses will be even higher than they were these part 3 years. To have a chance with making indies into AA they've have to spends hundreds of millions every year(bigger risk of losses if it doesn't work). Better to spend that money on expanding proven first party development than unproven indies.

All they're doing is doubling down on the same tired franchises that nobody is buying their systems for anymore. People do not care. If they don't realize that sooner rather than later, you'll quickly begin to see the implications of what being slow to change means.

It's too late to salvage Wii U. I'm talking about a complete change in character for both Nintendo as a company and for their next system. It's time for them to stop pretending they're separate from the rest of the market, because that only works if they come up with a gimmick that is both actually new and that anyone gives a shit about. They need to stop thinking they're above making a certain type of game, when ignoring that market isolates entire parts of the industry. And as the person who leads the way for your platform, it's your job to show the market AND developers/publishers that this is a system that not only will have those games, but will give equal pride and place to them alongside their traditional fun-for-all-ages fare.

If they really do think they're above making those games, it's a necessity they partner with major third parties to come up with ideas that they will allow them to do. And these ideas must be pushed with the same energy and market budgets as the largest Mario title. Everyone can tell the difference between the way they push their primary stable of all-ages games and the less 'normalized Nintendo' stuff. It's hardly ever front and center. If Nintendo wants to bring on board consumers who are going to allow third parties to thrive just like they do, they need to balance out the way they show their system between games aimed at younger folks, games aimed at all ages, and games aimed at adults. They can't show twenty five games with colorful mascots in a row and then show a clip of Bayonetta and Xenoblade and say we're all cool. They have got to tip the balance for a while, to redraw consumers attention to the fact that Nintendo is the place to be for all types of games.

Right now the impression most consumers get is that they'd have to be half mad to get a Wii U when PS4 and XBO offer basically everything they need, in every type of genre, in every type of visual style, in every type of gimmick, in every type of theme and age group and top off with massively superior technological edge and online functionality.

So unless Nintendo is ready to get serious and compete, they're going to just become more and more isolated. And that'd be sad to me, because they're one of the last companies who still do what they do.

Coming up with their own bold new ideas? They had Wii Sports and Wii Fit, it worked for console sales and hence was the right approach, but third parties didn't play ball and didn't even try to directly cater to and cultivate the new audience.

If Nintendo did all of this third parties would give them a few scraps and carry on focusing on MS/Sony. Nintendo console sales won't go up and they'd lose money they invested to do the above.

Of course they did. In fact they did it so often that the majority of third party games that were million+ sellers were in that precise mini-game compilation mode. I don't really care to discuss the quality of them, because consumers purchased them in droves, and they were the same milquetoast party games and mini-game compilations that Nintendo demonstrated to the average consumer the Wii would be about.

That is exactly the type of game that dominated the coverage of the system. You can say as a more informed gamer that other stuff was there, but first and second and third impressions matter, and it was completely dominated by a Nintendo that was single-minded in their casual focus.

And then, surprise, it was casuals that purchased the games third party devs made.

Again, Nintendo did their job perfectly on the Wii. Third parties dropped the ball and that audience was lost.

But third parties did not. Nintendo purposefully marketed the Wii as a platform that catered to certain very specific needs. Every commercial emphasized the family play aspect. Every talk show demonstrated the easy access and its ability to bring friends and family together. The vast majority of games from Nintendo illustrated the desire for consumption of simplistic/shallow party experiences that are easy to develop and even easier to access without fear of there being a barrier of entry. Nintendo themselves continued to have the vast majority of all the games they develop be either the same stable of traditional IPs they've been making since the NES, or the new casual-lite affairs like Wii Fit, Wii Party, Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Brain Age, Wario Ware, Mario Party, etc. That literally dominated their agenda. It consumed their advertising.

After this focus, ever after the few games that bucked the trend of selling within these categories were those with big names attached that sell no matter where they go, like Call of Duty and Resident Evil.

Nintendo has a responsibility to cultivate an environment that is conducive not only to their own games if they want the royalties that come with software to start rolling in. Other developers have expertise that Nintendo does not have, or approaches that they simply refuse to dabble in. And that's fine, but none of these devs/publishers have the ability to set a console's agenda the way the marker of that console does. And Nintendo made it a neverending point to make it seem like the fun-for-all-ages gimmick machine dream.

Therefore, devs did listen. They went on to create a million games that were just within the very categories that Nintendo emphasized around the clock. And guess what? With few exceptions, they were where all the third party million+ sellers came from (unless they were from very well established franchises like Resident Evil or Call of Duty), and there were a bunch. It didn't matter that a dev made Zack & Wiki, because Nintendo didn't cultivate that audience. It didn't matter that Dead Space Extraction was actually quite fun, because it wasn't a great fit for the console thematically, which had consumers conditioned to expect lighter fare. And finally toward the end of the systems life when Nintendo finally started dishing a bit outside that circle, they either failed to release them in the US or Europe altogether, or they released them so late in the cycle and after so much teeth pulling from gamers that it was too-little-too-late to change any perceptions about the console.

Nintendo set the agenda. The market kept demonstrating they listened and brought the system for those types of games. Devs therefore began to make more of those types of games, as they began to show they were the only types of third party products that had the type of success that made single console development viable (thanks to Nintendo's horrendous hardware power decision).

Nintendo takes the blame. They have to. And the longer they are allowed to pretend they are not to blame, the longer they will take to actually change. And the longer that takes, the harder it is to become relevant again.

I love Nintendo. So I hope they begin to leave their comfort zone sooner rather than later. They're stifling their own growth and creativity, because there's so much they can contribute beyond the bounds of the genres and themes they're comfortable with. You can still predominately make those other types of games while affording a decent increase in percentage in more radically experimental titles unassociated with any of their classic IPs and, in some cases, more adult thematically. But the point would be to break the idea of what it means to be a Nintendo game. Nintendo games should be quality and polish, it shouldn't carry any implications about theme or light heartedness or direction.
 
Everyone just blaming Nintendo is wrong, as well as those only blaming 3rd parties.

70% blame on Nintendo, 30% on 3rd parties.

The Wii U is no PS4 but given time and effort it has proven capable. With that said, the ports must run well, have DLC and release on time for them to have a chance, even then some good efforts have failed, like NFSMWU and Deus Ex HR.

Being so close to PS3 and X360 but with some intricacies of its own has hurt the Wii U. Almost everyone has a PS3 and/or a 360, if the Wii U versions does not stand out, then why get it on Wii U, and if you take into account being late, missing DLC and some performance issues, then no shit they don´t sell. Like Aquamarine said, it is a vicious cycle.
 

10k

Banned
Thread title is misleading. Nintendo fans buy tons of AC games. Animal Crossing is very popular among Nintendo enthusiasts :)
 
Again, Nintendo did their job perfectly on the Wii. Third parties dropped the ball and that audience was lost.

You're arguing that third parties are the ones that caused the Wii audience to collapse? Nintendo was the one that put all of its focus on attracting the casual, uncommitted audience, not third parties.
 

PetrCobra

Member
I just bought like five Ubisoft games in the eShop sale, most of them the second time (that means I also have them in physical form). Whatever game won't come out on my only console will eventually get bought on Steam for a fraction of eShop sale price (I'm talking two, three Euros max) or not at all. Their games are miles behind Nintendo stuff, they bring them late, don't advertise, generally treat Nintendo gamers like shit and they expect us to buy on launch? They might have handled the Wii U a bit better than other 3rd parties but that's no excuse because it was still sad.
 

frogger

Member
There is no secret that younger people buy Nintendo consoles. I wonder if there is any data on age distribution of console owners.
 

onipex

Member
The sad thing is that, even with all this, Ubisoft is the third-party that treated Nintendo best. I think it's crazy to blame the console holders, though, or to say they don't want mature games. They just didn't want the games Ubisoft was selling. I know ZombiU is well regarded around here, but it was a survival horror game - a dead genre - with a shovelware title and box art. Were they surprised it didn't do gangbusters? They delayed Watch Dogs & haven't shown any special features for it, even though the game concept cries out for a great second screen implementation - will anyone be surprised when it launches for $60 and tanks? They put a stake through the heart of hype for Rayman Legends on Wii U by delaying it and making it multi-plat - was anyone surprised with the result?

When your best third-party partner is treating you this way, it's time to work on the quality of your partnerships, Nintendo.


Exactly and Nintendo wasn't treated any better when their console was the Wii and was selling a ton of hardware and software.

Edit:
The fact is that if Nintendo doesn't bend over backwards for thirds parties like Microsoft and Sony they aren't going to get the same support. At this point it's clear that all consoles have to be the same thing at different or equal power outputs.
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
There is no secret that younger people buy Nintendo consoles. I wonder if there is any data on age distribution of console owners.

Oh, tons. You're right, Nintendo is super young with a secondary segment of adults 35+ (parents). But be careful what you say here... People jump down my throat all the time since a lot of people here are very insular and think of markets in very limited terms.

Can probably find some public data, look for some ESA, EEDAR studies. Maybe some older Nielsen or Interpret stuff is public too.
 
Again, I really don't see how people reconcile pointing out how much [third party] software was sold on the Wii with the idea that third parties didn't make software for the Wii.
Oh, tons. You're right, Nintendo is super young with a secondary segment of adults 35+ (parents). But be careful what you say here... People jump down my throat all the time since a lot of people here are very insular and think of markets in very limited terms.

Can probably find some public data, look for some ESA, EEDAR studies. Maybe some older Nielsen or Interpret stuff is public too.
I think Nintendo may have had slides themselves in their investor briefings emphasising this back in the heyday of the Wii and NDS.
 

heidern

Junior Member
They can't show twenty five games with colorful mascots in a row and then show a clip of Bayonetta and Xenoblade and say we're all cool. They have got to tip the balance for a while, to redraw consumers attention to the fact that Nintendo is the place to be for all types of games.

To redraw the balance they either have to cut back on 'mascot' games and replace them with something different or expand first/third party development. The former risks severe losses by alienating their existing audience, the latter is expensive and risks losses if the new games don't take off or lead to significant console uptake. With strong competition from MS/Sony there's not even close to a guarantee of success, particularly in the 18-35 market. There's no easy answer to this unfortunately.

Nintendo already take a risk in launching their platforms as shown by the losses the last 3 years. Ideally, third parties would take significant risks on Nintendo platforms too, but they aren't doing that because they have an established market on Sony/MS consoles.

Of course they did. In fact they did it so often that the majority of third party games that were million+ sellers were in that precise mini-game compilation mode. I don't really care to discuss the quality of them, because consumers purchased them in droves, and they were the same milquetoast party games and mini-game compilations that Nintendo demonstrated to the average consumer the Wii would be about.

When Nintendo released the NES and had success with Super Mario Bros, third parties invested in the market Nintendo created. They made platform games to directly target the audience that bought SMB but they didn't just make platform games. They looked at existing successes but they also tried to think of new ideas to test the market. They made games in a variety of genres including RPG, sports, shoot em up etc. Some of these games were also of high quality, some of them were game of the year material of even best game ever contenders.

The result was a thriving and growing market that was sustainable. The market was expanded further in the 90s by Sega and Sonic as well as the likes of Mario Kart and Streetfighter II.

Looking at the Wii, third parties made those mini-game compilations of dubious quality. Hardly a surprise that wasn't sustainable. They also didn't create new IPs in a variety of genres and of the highest quality targeted towards that audience. The end result was that the new audience wasn't solidified and was lost.

You could blame Nintendo, but they are only one publisher with one culture and there is only so much they can do. They had Wii Sports/Fit/Music/Warioware etc and they had things like Mario Kart with the faux wheel. Stuff like Smash also saw massive sales, but again Nintendo are limited in what they can do. If the Wii audience had received it's equivalents of Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/Contra/Goemon etc we could have seen a Wii that sold 200M and was market that was sustainable.
 
Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot: ‘Nintendo Customers Don’t Buy Assassin’s Creed’





After the high-profile failure of ZombiU, and the lack of support for AC IV on the platform (it's the only version of the game I can find for less than $20 at retail consistently.), this doesn't shock me. But at the same time, it's a very blunt way of looking at the problem. Yes, Multiplat M-rated games aren't selling on the WiiU. Does that mean the audience doesn't want mature titles, or that they're just playing those games elsewhere?

I will buy Watch dogs Wii U ubi i promise. Honestly I am buying this glad to hear some info that it's coming out.
 
Dubious quality by whose standards, by which value dimensions. The problem with how people on here tend to assess the 'quality' of something like Just Dance is that they do so through the lens of their own customer value drivers rather than those of the target market of Just Dance.

They have crappy graphics, they're 'shallow', etc. So? Those weren't necessarily the benefits sought. Accessibility, ease, simplicity, intuitiveness.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
Bought AC3 on the U, but saw how AC4 was more focused on pirates and decided not to since I hated the sailing parts of the game. Knew the next AC wouldn't hit it, so got a PS4. Waiting to see how WD looks and plays on Wii U.

Not sure I agreed they tried, it just seems like Wii U is struggling period. 4/17 titles were M-rated before this decision. Would love to know the breakdown of these titles.

Also would love to know if the title they're holding back is M-rated or not, because that means it'll never see the light of day.
 

antitrop

Member
WiiU is probably the best system for Watch_Dogs, since there isn't as much insanely superior direct competition for it as every other platform its out on.

I don't know why anyone would want to play Watch_Dogs when Sleeping Dogs, GTA, Infamous, Saint's Row, etc all exist, but seems like it would fill a nice hole in the WiiU's genre library. Too bad it couldn't be a better game.
 

Rubixcuba

Banned
Amir0x's posts have been rather convincing on the notion that Nintendo created a culture on the Wii which pandered towards 'lite/casual/mini-game compilation' software instead of fostering a system in which more 'mature' software could find success.

Whilst I agree that Nintendo's issues in attracting 3rd party software during the Wii era was restrained by lack of graphical capability and online infrastructure, I find that the 2nd wave of 3rd party software geared towards the mature market to be puzzling. Following the success of the RE4 port, doesn't Capcom burden some fault for then deciding to release two on-rails shooters rather than a RE5/new traditional Resident Evil game? I feel the same applies to the release of Dead Space Extraction and Dragon Quest Swords. For lack of better term the release of half-baked offshoot titles from the established series on other platforms fostered an attitude of complacency towards 3rd party efforts on the Wii. An extension could be made to the release of 1st wave (I don't think a 2nd exists) 3rd party titles on the Wii U, why would a core Nintendo fan purchase Mass Effect 3 when other systems received the Mass Effect trilogy collection around the same time?

I haven tread through the entire thread, so I'm not sure of these points have been made but the gist of my post is essentially,
Everyone just blaming Nintendo is wrong, as well as those only blaming 3rd parties.

70% blame on Nintendo, 30% on 3rd parties.
 
As someone who enjoyed trying the games at a friends and was so happy when the series came to Wii U I find his statements infuriating. I bought both III and IV for Wii U and have a fully paid off reserve for Watch Dogs Wii U. Nintendo is clearly expanding their offering through games like Bayonetta and Devil's Third, and I thought third parties would see this and bring more support back to the platform. I'm definitely emailing Ubisoft letting them know this is insulting and a horrible move to Nintendo who has always been good to them.
 

heidern

Junior Member
Just Dance does not constitute a compelling or diverse game library.

Also, the insinuation that people on here can't objectively assess things that aren't targeted to them is misguided. I'm not a fan of opera for example but I can appreciate the effort and artistic merit that it has. Similarly I can call out many Wii third party games for lacking artistic merit so to speak, not because I wasn't the target audience and they don't interest me, but because they often did lack artistic merit and were low effort shovelware or B-grade spinoffs.
 
Just Dance is an example, among the third party software that shipped x many hundred million units. It is and was a compelling product. And regardless of people labeling minigame collections as shovelware or B-grade, they were clearly compelling products to a consumer segment given that consumer segment bought those products.

Your comments essentially illustrate the flaw in presumption of what defines value to a completely different market segment. On what basis does one presume that "artistic merit" is a principle value driver for those segments of consumers seeking interactive entertainment that were attracted to the Wii and drove market expansion. A lot of people on here consider much of mobile gaming that has attracted audiences away from the console space "low effort" or "artistically bankrupt." What are you defining as effort? Production values and budget? Why exactly? Are these the dimensions that those consumers valued?
 

sörine

Banned
I don't agree with dismissing all casual games on artistic merit (way too slippery a slope) but I do think investment can be used as a metric for publisher effort. Obviously system spec factors into that, in theory the average Wii game shouldn't have had a budget rivaling the average PS3 or 360 game, but should be comparable to the average PS2 game. And in the end I'm not sure that was the case really for the most part.
 

heidern

Junior Member
Just Dance is an example, among the third party software that shipped x many hundred million units. It is and was a compelling product. And regardless of people labeling minigame collections as shovelware or B-grade, they were clearly compelling products to a consumer segment given that consumer segment bought those products.

Just Dance is a compelling product. But it still doesn't constitute a compelling library or diverse game library. The rest of the third party library failed to make a significant impact. The products were also not that compelling because otherwise the Wii market wouldn't have declined as it did.

Your comments essentially illustrate the flaw in presumption of what defines value to a completely different market segment. On what basis does one presume that "artistic merit" is a principle value driver for those segments of consumers seeking interactive entertainment that were attracted to the Wii and drove market expansion. A lot of people on here consider much of mobile gaming that has attracted audiences away from the console space "low effort" or "artistically bankrupt." What are you defining as effort? Production values and budget? Why exactly? Are these the dimensions that those consumers valued?

Effort can include the following:
Putting your best and most talented people onto a project
Production values and budget
Artistic vision(fairly liberal definition) to encompass things like storyline/concept, gameplay etc
Innovation, attempting a brand new genre.
Giving a product prime exposure such as making it your headline product at trade shows

Your last question about what "consumers valued" also shows the same thinking as Wii third parties. Nintendo made some mini-games and customers bought them ergo they "valued" mini-games. So third parties gave them mini-games. But it's not about what they valued, it's about what else they might value. NES customers valued jumping on peoples heads. But Enix took a risk that some of them might value storyline and characterisation. Namco thought they or other potential customers not yet in the market might like baseball. Some companies tried fast paced games, others slow paced games, some tried strategy or puzzle games, others racing games or sports games. The experimentation helped grow and consolidate the market by hooking new customers or adding hooks to existing customers. A person hooked by Dragon Quest and Mario is more likely to buy a SNES than someone only hooked by Mario.

There were many successes on the NES and games had staying power. Dragon Quest, Castlevania etc had success into the following generation. Third parties were taking risks and putting their best effort into making the best games they could and sometimes they saw success. Conversely, third parties did not put their best effort into their Wii games and saw more limited results. Instead they put their best effort into Sony/MS platforms and saw their success on those platforms.
 
The rest of the third party library along with Just Dance games account for something like 500M+ units of software from memory. Somehow this un-compelling third party library managed to sell. You're attributing causality of the decline of the Wii to third party software output, as opposed to natural product cycles, saturation, a growth in the gap between what the market desires and what is offered, other products providing superior consumer value.

Again, you define "effort" with regard to dimensions you value. Why would a 35 year old mother of two care what headlines at a trade show? Third parties made efforts to create software based on observation of consumer needs and desires. The platforms and software that are now attracting the demographics of the expanded audience market are not competing on those "effort" dimensions you list, and they are not out-competing Nintendo's platforms based on those dimensions. The production values of Candy Crush do not match Mario Kart. The artistic vision of PazuDora isn't superior to The Legend of Zelda. They address different customer value drivers, price, convenience, reducing complexity, and they do so much better than the traditional console makers are doing right now.

That you're referencing a market some 30 years ago as if it's a relevant contemporary example aside, publishers created software on the NES to capitalize on the same market base that the platform holders cultivated. They did so on the PlayStation and Xbox platforms. They did so on the Wii. Ubisoft did not make a dance game because Nintendo made one and cultivated the genre, as Nintendo didn't. They made a dance game that they believed would appeal to the same market Nintendo cultivated.
 

Shiggy

Member
As someone who enjoyed trying the games at a friends and was so happy when the series came to Wii U I find his statements infuriating. I bought both III and IV for Wii U and have a fully paid off reserve for Watch Dogs Wii U. Nintendo is clearly expanding their offering through games like Bayonetta and Devil's Third, and I thought third parties would see this and bring more support back to the platform. I'm definitely emailing Ubisoft letting them know this is insulting and a horrible move to Nintendo who has always been good to them.

Nintendo is expanding their offerings with two games very few people care about. Other publishers noticed this and didn't even want to fund those two titles, and now you expect them to bring back Wii U support because Nintendo has two huge flops at its hands?
 

openrob

Member
I wrote a lengthy post, but then accidentally refreshed the page... Sigh...

Anyway. Long story short, they didn't try at all, and I can give examples of how and theories on why for many 3rd party games.

Also as someone mentioned, why not bring Tetris to Wii U then?
 

Shiggy

Member
I wrote a lengthy post, but then accidentally refreshed the page... Sigh...

Anyway. Long story short, they didn't try at all, and I can give examples of how and theories on why for many 3rd party games.

Wii U games are selling abnormally bad unless they have Mario or Zelda. You can't just always blame 3rd parties when they brought some good ports which still sold like shit.


Also as someone mentioned, why not bring Tetris to Wii U then?

Because it's simply not worth it on that console. Pretty much everyone apart from Nintendo has abandoned the console for good reason.
 
Dubious quality by whose standards, by which value dimensions. The problem with how people on here tend to assess the 'quality' of something like Just Dance is that they do so through the lens of their own customer value drivers rather than those of the target market of Just Dance.

They have crappy graphics, they're 'shallow', etc. So? Those weren't necessarily the benefits sought. Accessibility, ease, simplicity, intuitiveness.

Just Dance graphics are actually very good now, they've improved a lot from 1 to 2, then again from 4 onwards. Ubisoft also added several modes including online multiplayer, workout sessions, battles etc. The problem is that a lot of reviewers considered Just Dance as shovelware when the very first instalment came out, which ended up in a ridiculous situation where a 49 metascore game sells almost 10 million and gets a massive amount of positive reviews from consumers in the target demographic.

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Also this is the best post I've read that explains why the Just Dance concept is successful:
Do you really think you're replying with a smart argument here? You're actually a lot more shallow than you think.

Sure I'll clarify since you lack the ability to think outside your reach.

EPXuDrX.png


Oh wow, is this game ugly! I bet they could have used rendered 3D models or shot real-time videoclips...
--- letting you think for a moment ---
Oh wait, maybe, I don't know, to create these visuals they had to record real-time videos and then apply effects to it! That would actually be a bigger effort, yikes, they wouldn't do that, would they?

If you can't see that...
1. This is a design choice
2. This is actually appealing because it's easy to see, easy to mimic, not distracting from the real people playing, looks simplified yet resembles humans and avoids targeting specific ages or demographics.

...then YOU. ARE. BLIND.

You attempts to say that this is an ugly / non design is ridiculous. Because if you say something like that, you need to provide examples of what could be better? The cluttered mess that is DDR and scares people off? Way to miss the entire point of the game.

What design?
Let's see: 2 clicks to choose a song? No unlocking shit? Easy and non cluttered menu? Color scheme? You think those dozen of Hero games are better? They only got cluttered more and more. To simplify is actually a much harder design choice than just to copy previous games of the same genre. Hero games were always dark and gritty, a design I totally hated (and avoided). Do you read Iwata asks? More isn't always better, they often remove things so you don't get negative effects.

You think all this came out of nothing? Oh, let's make a game that's just less than everything else! No! People actually have to think and make these choices. These were brilliant choices and in sync with what they were aiming for.

The point system: seems easy to score, so no one really ends up feeling like a total failure. However, to get high scores (far exceeding the actual bar) you need to dance precisely to the rhythm. When the scores show people compare who danced the best. During the dance, spectators see who's dancing really well (both in real life and on screen), because lots of bar effects show up if you do everything well.

I'm saying you should go back to your couch and play some games aimed at teens since this is clearly not aimed at you. If you don't see why this isn't about difficulty unlocking, achievements collecting, many-modes options, video-clip playing and accurate mimicking then you have no clue what this game is about.

If you own a Wii and have some friends, I suggest you rent this game for just 1 night and play it. Then you'll either...

1. Understand how incredibly ignorant your arguments are
2. You'll play this with 4 people sitting on the couch wondering why it's still not fun and blaming me
 

Shiggy

Member
I know a LOT of indie devs that would like to speak to you... but I am sure they dont count.

True, a few lesser known indie studios still support the console to some extent. Hope we are getting more Steamworld Dig and Shovel Knight games than titles such as The Letter.
 

Glass Joe

Member
The AC franchise doesn't interest me much at all but I know the game performance-wise, it's widely reported that it doesn't run quite as well as the 360 and PS3 versions, let alone XBox One and PS4.

I mean, maybe if the U versions looked better than old-gen, made extremely clever use of the pad, or at least came out on time (AC3 didn't but I think 4 did)... and without people doubting it will have all the DLC or bugs, maybe it could have sold a few more. As it is, the U versions just seem to be the least appealing SKU for anyone with any other option.

Everyone just blaming Nintendo is wrong, as well as those only blaming 3rd parties.

70% blame on Nintendo, 30% on 3rd parties.

The Wii U is no PS4 but given time and effort it has proven capable. With that said, the ports must run well, have DLC and release on time for them to have a chance, even then some good efforts have failed, like NFSMWU and Deus Ex HR.

Being so close to PS3 and X360 but with some intricacies of its own has hurt the Wii U. Almost everyone has a PS3 and/or a 360, if the Wii U versions does not stand out, then why get it on Wii U, and if you take into account being late, missing DLC and some performance issues, then no shit they don´t sell. Like Aquamarine said, it is a vicious cycle.

NFSMWU came out months after other versions, and Dues Ex was $20 more than other versions. I'm not at all disagreeing with what you're sayin', just pointing out that even the good porting examples you provided faced their share of obstacles.
 

ADANIEL1960

Neo Member
I understand that Just dance has been more of a disaster, sales wise on the WiiU, than ZombieU. So does this mean we won't get any Ubi games on WiiU at all?

I do admit though that the loss of Ubi will be hard felt by WiiU users.

It's a shame though that they have delayed the Rayman and Watch Dogs releases as these delays have no doubt diminished sales performance on WiiU.

Does anybody know what sales they were expecting for ZombieU basis it was for a new Ip on a New Platform? Seems Harsh!
 
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