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Cornell Student Organizes Pro-Black Protest Without Black Involvement, BSU Responds

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So, do I have to get a monk's advance permission to hold a Free Tibet rally?
Should I get approval from a homeless person before I start a food drive?

Did you check to see if there were any of those rallies being planned already and decide you just wanted to make your own anyhow?

Wait so thats nothing like the situation in OP? Well shit.

On topic: I appreciate what he's trying to do but he really did go about this the wrong way. The BSU even said thanks for organizing the protest! Heart was in the right place but yeah I agree with the BSU on this one.
 

Arkeband

Banned
If a police union suddenly did an about-face and said they wanted to lead one (1) protest against police brutality, I'd be ecstatic, personally. Yeah, it's suspicious, but ultimately vying over who should be leading every single protest seems shortsighted to me. White people should be organizing BLM protests everywhere, in addition to black people organizing them.
 

tbm24

Member
It's in the guys apology. There were already ones planned. He could have joined those ones but made his own for some reason. That's not solidarity, but his intentions may have been noble.
I don't understand why it's an issue if he made his own. Where's the lack of solidarity if you're advocating for the same cause? I don't think he necessarily needed to reach out to any one group in particular, sure it'd be helpful to expand it further, but not a requirement.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Did you check to see if there were any of those rallies being planned already and decide you just wanted to make your own anyhow?

Wait so thats nothing like the situation in OP? Well shit.

TBF at most that's being guilty of lack of properly preparing or scheduling at the most. Hardly a reason to get particularly upset over.
 
If a police union suddenly did an about-face and said they wanted to lead one (1) protest against police brutality, I'd be ecstatic, personally. Yeah, it's suspicious, but ultimately vying over who should be leading every single protest seems shortsighted to me. White people should be organizing BLM protests everywhere, in addition to black people organizing them.

White people should be organizing them WITH black people and vice versa, I agree.
 

Jme

Member
None of those things are about emancipation within a society.

Uh...check your definitions.


This is a false equivalency. Don't be ridiculous, seriously.

But, this is seriously ridiculous. Let me quote...

They then suggested that individuals who would like to show support for black causes should ask in advance for the organization’s approval.

That is the equivalent of requiring advanced permission from a group to show support for said groups benefit.
 

Condom

Member
Uh...check your definitions.
None of your examples are about emancipation within a society. Tibet is about the sovereignty of a country and food for homeless people is a former of bandaid help that doesn't emancipate them.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I don't understand why it's an issue if he made his own. Where's the lack of solidarity if you're advocating for the same cause? I don't think he necessarily needed to reach out to any one group in particular, sure it'd be helpful to expand it further, but not a requirement.
If there's solidarity, why aren't you joining other protests already planned? Why aren't you including black voices? Your school isn't devoid of them, so don't speak FOR them. Stay in your lane, period.
 
There's nothing to indicate that they couldn't join though. Only that the organizer overstepped his bounds. If he was really an ally, he'd join. That's solidarity.

What's wrong with having two rallies?

If I saw a group of whites rallying against racial inequality, I would find that to be a really powerful statement. It's really easy to be apathetic to a situation that doesn't affect you.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Uh...check your definitions.




But, this is seriously ridiculous. Let me quote...



That is the equivalent of requiring advanced permission from a group to show support for said groups benefit.
You really think, not including black voices is for this movement is what it is to be an ally? If so then, I can't help you.


What's wrong with having two rallies?

If I saw a group of whites rallying against racial inequality, I would find that to be a really powerful statement. It's really easy to be apathetic to a situation that doesn't affect you.
Nothing. What's wrong with being inclusive of the people that are being marganalized? The black student union thought the guy was trolling, he admitted himself that he understood why they thought that.
 

Jme

Member
None of your examples are about emancipation within a society. Tibet is about the sovereignty of a country and food for homeless people is a former of bandaid help that doesn't emancipate them.

Tibet is about “a free Tibet in which Tibetans are able to determine their own future and the human rights of all are respected.” It's about the people within the society, and their emancipation from China's occupation. But this is pretty far off the topic at hand.
 

BriGuy

Member
Then they aren't really allies or supporters ...
That's probably a bit presumptuous. The people involved (or attempting to get involved) are still human; they have feelings and their own sense of pride. They might be less willing to put themselves out there in the future if they feel like they're going to be marginalized or embarrassed for doing so, even if they still believe in the cause.
 

Jme

Member
You really think, not including black voices is for this movement is what it is to be an ally? If so then, I can't help you.

No, that's not what I was saying. Just that their request for pre-approval for anyone other than their group (which would include non-group member black people, white people, etc.) is absurd.
 

Christopher

Member
No, that's not what I was saying. Just that their request for pre-approval for anyone other than their group (which would include non-group member black people, white people, etc.) is absurd.

Pre-approval?

Perhaps don't be offended on our behalf without consulting us to see what our goals and plights are - but again feel offended and good you did a protest for someone else
 
I don't see anything wrong with this. Whites shouldn't be speaking for Blacks, and vice versa. Whites can protest too but, this isn't their movement and they shouldn't be speaking for blacks when it's they who hold the power.
 

tbm24

Member
If there's solidarity, why aren't you joining other protests already planned? Why aren't you including black voices? Your school isn't devoid of them, so don't speak FOR them. Stay in your lane, period.
There is no lane to stay in imo. I don't see the lack of solidarity so long as the message and cause is the same. Literally advocating for the same thing. You don't need to be black to notice what's going on and what needs to change. The rally isn't calling for only whites to attend either. It was open for everyone to do as the organizer and include their voices. I just don't understand why he's required to join other groups and not help spread the message through his own efforts as well. Racial equality is for all, black america included. Would it have been an issue if I as a Latin American attempted to organize a protest without consulting the BSU first?
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
That's probably a bit presumptuous. The people involved (or attempting to get involved) are still human; they have feelings and their own sense of pride. They might be less willing to put themselves out there in the future if they feel like they're going to be marginalized or embarrassed for doing so, even if they still believe in the cause.
This is a light version of white tears>>>black bodies.


If I were championing a cause to help women and it didn't include women. And if my cause was one that looked like it was a troll attempt on some MRA fuccboi shit then I'd acknowledge I was in error, apologize and ask "what can I do to help?". Because my pride isn't more important than other people's freedom/rights.
 

nynt9

Member
Would you be suspicious of a straight persons with intentions of organizing a protest when there's already one being planned by the schools LGBT union?

No, why would you? Do we even know if they knew of another protest being in planning? I'd take any allies I can get.

I think a "let's collaborate" would have been a lot better than "you stop, this is our thing"
 

anaron

Member
That's probably a bit presumptuous. The people involved (or attempting to get involved) are still human; they have feelings and their own sense of pride. They might be less willing to put themselves out there in the future if they feel like they're going to be marginalized or embarrassed for doing so, even if they still believe in the cause.
Exactly. All this does is create an unwelcoming environment for anyone hoping to help out and just further contributes to a divide that shouldn't exist.

I'm not saying it's in any way alright to just drop the cause because of this (hey Bernie Stans) or to justify those dumb thinly veiled racist "well this is why no one cares" posts; but I do wonder what kind of message it sends out to the well intentioned but uninformed.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
No, that's not what I was saying. Just that their request for pre-approval for anyone other than their group (which would include non-group member black people, white people, etc.) is absurd.
You think that's absurd, then you aren't an ally. This happened at a university that has unions for this cause, not in a vacuum devoid of those groups or black people.
 
Nothing. What's wrong with being inclusive of the people that are being marganalized? The black student union thought the guy was trolling, he admitted himself that he understood why they thought that.

I wouldn't phrase it like that because it doesn't sound like they were being exclusive.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
No, why would you? Do we even know if they knew of another protest being in planning? I'd take any allies I can get.

I think a "let's collaborate" would have been a lot better than "you stop, this is our thing"
That is exactly what the black student union said. Inclusion is collaboration.
I wouldn't phrase it like that because it doesn't sound like they were being exclusive.
Edit: nvm
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Actually, it makes sense. What's absurd is to organize a public function that aims to benefit a group of people without consulting members of that group. That would be like organizing a rally for breast cancer survivors and not having a single breast cancer survivor in the planning and or execution.
The breast cancer analogy doesn't really work because people without breast cancer aren't part of the problem with breast cancer. Plus, I am sure almost every day there are fund raisers for breast cancer research that don't directly involve people with breast cancer or breast cancer survivors. Can you imagine a breast cancer charity trying to shut down a fund raiser because no-one with breast cancer was involved?
 
This is a non issue, it was resolved


Also, to be clear. It's great to have white allies, and have you speak on behalf of the margenalized, black people. But you shouldn't speak FOR or over black people. Being inclusive from the ground up >>>>

Basically

Non issue? It seems like a pretty big issue to me. I wouldn't feel like an ally if you told me to shut down my protest.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
I seriously think people are wanting to be a little too color blind here. Look, again, I'm a white male and there's things I will never champion myself, women's rights and minority rights. Not because I'm too ignorant to know that they're issues that need fighting, not because I don't think I should but because it literally can't be me. It can't. My group's the reason those issues exist in the first place. Therefore, in those two instances I believe the right place for a white male is standing beside or behind minorities and women in their respective fights not in front. These issues are, boiled down to their ugly but undeniable truths, against the white, male establishment and to ask people to line up behind the very same people is just a little silly.

Some of these counter examples are silly, you can hold a free Tibet rally in the US because how many Tibetan monks are in your city? It's across the damn ocean. But if you fly over to Tibet and start some protest without consulting them, yes that's a little freaking silly.

Again, I think ethically there's no problem, but psychologically I think there's an issue with a white man asking minorities to stand behind them and demand equal treatment from what's essentially the white man to begin with. It's my personal opinion that white people who genuinely want to make a difference should recognize exactly whose movements these really are be happy fighting for equal rights under them as opposed to demanding they fight for their equal rights under him(which frankly is the problem isn't it?).

I hope that's not too controversial that's just how I feel about these types of matters.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Non issue? It seems like a pretty big issue to me. I wouldn't feel like an ally if you told me to shut down my protest.

Then you were never an ally to begin with. A true ally would stop and think about how they felt.
^^^

And yes it is a nonissue. Guy with dubious motives attempts to organize a protest. Is nipped in the bud before getting off the ground for not being inclusive. Guy realizes his error and how his message can be misconstrued and encourages his constituents to join the already active movements. That's a non issue.
 
^^^

And yes it is a nonissue. Guy with dubious motives attempts to organize a protest. Is nipped in the bud before getting off the ground for not being inclusive. Guy realizes his error and how his message can be misconstrued and encourages his constituents to join the already active movements. That's a non issue.
Just curious, because it wasn't expounded upon in article. Why would his motives be considered dubious? I agree it wasn't the best idea to start this event, but I don't understand why some assumed the worst of him. It wasn't really explained.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Just curious, because it wasn't expounded upon in article. Why would his motives be considered dubious? I agree it wasn't the best idea to start this event, but I don't understand why some assumed the worst of him. It wasn't really explained.
I don't know. The reasons weren't explained, and the original posts are gone. But some thought he was making light of the issues/trolling and he acknowledged why they would believe that. But not including black people when organizing might be a little suspect. I can only go off the context given and his open letter apology.
 
The black student union wanted to be approached before another group does anything about them publicly. I like to think that makes sense. Talk to people, it could have been something even better.
 

tbm24

Member
I don't know. The reasons weren't explained, and the original posts are gone. But some thought he was making light of the issues/trolling and he acknowledged why they would believe that. But not including black people when organizing might be a little suspect. I can only go off the context given and his open letter apology.
It's no less suspect than not including anyone from all the other marginalized minorities. It's only considered dubious or trolling strictly because he was white unless something else turns up saying otherwise, and I think that's ridiculous.
 

Ovid

Member
I understand where the Black Student Union is coming from but they took too far by asking them to cancel the protest.

They should have asked them to postpone and reorganize it so that the BSU could be involved.


As an aside, I wonder why there is a notable uptick now in protesting at universities and colleges.
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the BLM movement, upcoming presidental elections (next year) and social media.
 
I don't know. The reasons weren't explained, and the original posts are gone. But some thought he was making light of the issues/trolling and he acknowledged why they would believe that. But not including black people when organizing might be a little suspect. I can only go off the context given and his open letter apology.

Just wondering if you knew anything more. I guess it doesn't really matter. Like you said, it is all resolved.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
It's no less suspect than not including anyone from all the other marginalized minorities. It's only considered dubious or trolling strictly because he was white unless something else turns up saying otherwise, and I think that's ridiculous.
I think not being inclusive is ridiculous and worth being called out on. And unless you're privy to information not included in the op, I thin you're being unfair because the event and posts have been deleted.
I understand where the Black Student Union is coming from but they took too far by asking them to cancel the protest.

They should have asked them to postpone and reorganize it so that the BSU could be involved.



I'm pretty sure it's because of BLM, upcoming presidental elections (next year) and social media.
They asked to be included.
 

lednerg

Member
Google Cache of the event

Paola Muñoz's comment refers to a video Heisenberg made, which I can't find, but sounds pretty bad.

... If you were truly an ally, you wouldn't have said all the classist shit that you did (the video making fun of the GoFundMe campaigns), use humor to dilute our pain, and sensationalize a struggle that the PoC's at these institutions are serving. I will be forever in solidarity with my PoC's here at Cornell and elsewhere, but if you are to be in ally, you have to acknowledge what you've done to hurt us. This is a complete mockery.​
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Google Cache of the event

Paola Muñoz's comment refers to a video Heisenberg made, which I can't find, but sounds pretty bad.

... If you were truly an ally, you wouldn't have said all the classist shit that you did (the video making fun of the GoFundMe campaigns), use humor to dilute our pain, and sensationalize a struggle that the PoC's at these institutions are serving. I will be forever in solidarity with my PoC's here at Cornell and elsewhere, but if you are to be in ally, you have to acknowledge what you've done to hurt us. This is a complete mockery.​
So there was cause for concern, just like the black student union said. Who'd have thunk it...
 

tbm24

Member
I think not being inclusive is ridiculous and worth being called out on. And unless you're privy to information not included in the op, I thin you're being unfair because the event and posts have been deleted.
They asked to be included.

I'll say again, I know nothing about this individual but if all he was looking to do was organize a protest, and he put it up for all to attend, I'm just not seeing where he wasn't being inclusive. He doesn't need to ask or include the BSU anymore than he has to include the Asian American groups or Latin American groups and so on. I'll ask again, if the individual was say myself a Latin American and I didn't once speak to the BSU, would you take issue with that.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
if all he was looking to do was organize a protest, and he put it up for all to attend, I'm just not seeing where he wasn't being inclusive.
That's clearly not what happened, so you might want to stop while you're ahead.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I'll say again, I know nothing about this individual but if all he was looking to do was organize a protest, and he put it up for all to attend, I'm just not seeing where he wasn't being inclusive. He doesn't need to ask or include the BSU anymore than he has to include the Asian American groups or Latin American groups and so on. I'll ask again, if the individual was say myself a Latin American and I didn't once speak to the BSU, would you take issue with that.
I think your view on this whole matter is extremely reductive and doesn't respect the nuances of this scenario. Dubious intentions( people thought he was lampooning the movment), and didn't include black people in the organizing/ignored the already ongoing events. And inclusion is absolutely inportant.
 
This isn't that weird and happens all the time where I live. BLM talks about this all the time. It's very obvious that a lot of people in this thread have never attended a protest and don't regularly talk to activists, because this is common drama.

It'd be weird if a bunch of white kids tried to make a protest about Native American issues without including Native Americans. It wouldn't be representative of the views held by the people experiencing the problems that are being protested, it would marginalize or supercede the work already done by minorities, and it definitely can look like someone's trying to get the attention for something minorities have been doing themselves without any recognition.

I mean, how don't you have any black friends to help you on organizing for black people? How do you not reach out to the existing black groups?
 

tbm24

Member
That's clearly not what happened, so you might want to stop while you're ahead.

Alright, sure then all I'm looking to know is whether or not anyone would have an issue if the organizer was someone else who happened to be white. That's my main issue with this, not this individual in particular.
 
You really shouldn't be closing down protests. Protests are good things.
Here's the thing: what happens when the public finds out a protest for black people turned violent or shitty? Who do you think will get called out for this, even if the people there know it was all white people?

I've seen situations where white "allies" made counter-protests to original protests led by minorities over police brutality. The protests would be ideologically aligned but handled differently because the white people didn't want to do what the black people wanted. So the white group is full of anarchists breaking shit and yelling violent bullshit. The local paper covers it, and the black group that the city has long been aware of takes all the blame and has their name dragged for shit that they didn't do. No one's really aware of this shit happening all the time unless you're directly involved.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Alright, sure then all I'm looking to know is whether or not anyone would have an issue if the organizer was someone else who happened to be white. That's my main issue with this, not this individual in particular.
It wouldn't be an issue, if he included black people when organizing it. And that wasn't the only issue anyways, see the cache fb post above. His motives were suspect.


Here's the thing: what happens when the public finds out a protest for black people turned violent or shitty? Who do you think will get called out for this, even if the people there know it was all white people?

I've seen situations where white "allies" made counter-protests to original protests led by minorities over police brutality. It'd be over the same issues, but handled differently because the white people didn't want to do what the black people wanted. So the white group is full of anarchists breaking shit and yelling violent bullshit. The local paper covers it, and the black group that the city has long been aware of takes all the blame.
This is a great point
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Alright, sure then all I'm looking to know is whether or not anyone would have an issue if the organizer was someone else who happened to be white. That's my main issue with this, not this individual in particular.
Just so we're clear, your scenario doesn't accurately represent this situation at all.

But to answer your question: if this hypothetical person included black voices (black students and black student groups) in the planning and execution of the event, I think most people would not have a problem with it.
 
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