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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread

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G

Gigglepoo

Member
Am I allowed to talk about the released chapters for The Winds of Winter? I'll spoil my question, just in case:

I just finished reading six unreleased chapters: Theon, Arianne, Barristan, Tyrion, Mercy, and Alayne. I know there are others as well, read by GRRM at conventions. There's another Tyrion, Barristan, and Arianee plus a Victarian. Are these available anywhere? Also, when GRMM releases these early chapters, do they make their way into the next took unchanged? Or are they normally rough drafts?

Oh, and a white dragon!? What the hell is this white dragon that Tyrion sees!?

EDIT -- Moving to the book thread. Sorry!
 
M

mantidor

Member
WaffleTaco said:
Honestly, now that I am thinking the "wildlings" being the excuse Jon died...I start to think of republicans and their stances on immigration, gays, Muslims and other irrational fears. It makes a bit more sense in D&D's approach that way...unless I remembering it wrong and really is that horrible in the show (which is probably hyberbole since most non-book readers I have talked to were fine with his "death").
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It's not much of a stretch, after all they turned the sparrows into a "god hates fags" Westboro church kind of thing.
 
E

Euron

Member
WaffleTaco said:
Honestly, now that I am thinking the "wildlings" being the excuse Jon died...I start to think of republicans and their stances on immigration, gays, Muslims and other irrational fears. It makes a bit more sense in D&D's approach that way...unless I remembering it wrong and really is that horrible in the show (which is probably hyberbole since most non-book readers I have talked to were fine with his "death").
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I absolutely hate that they've done this. They've turned grey characters into pure evil in a faulty "attempt" at social commentary.

The Night's Watch was arguably justified in their actions in the books since Jon wanted to lead them on a suicide mission to Winterfell instead of preparing for the Others. And the Faith are brought about in an effort to reform King's Landing in light of the insane corruption that has taken place.

But nope let's just turn all the antagonists into Trump
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Euron said:
I absolutely hate that they've done this. They've turned grey characters into pure evil in a faulty "attempt" at social commentary.

The Night's Watch was arguably justified in their actions in the books since Jon wanted to lead them on a suicide mission to Winterfell instead of preparing for the Others. And the Faith are brought about in an effort to reform King's Landing in light of the insane corruption that has taken place.

But nope let's just turn all the antagonists into Trump
Click to expand...

To be fair, they just changed the high sparrow stuff so that there is a blatant dichotomy between the High Sparrow himself (a man who is clearly just trying to deal with corruption) and his followers (religious fanatics who are obsessed with enforcing religion) which gives a nice portrayal of the issue with "ends justify the means". The nights watch stuff was definitely done badly in the show.
 
S

Severance

Member
As slow moving as AFFC/ADWD were, they really allowed plots like Cersei's walk of shame and Jon's assassination to develop in a way that the TV show never did. They really could have developed those plots over two seasons of tv. Season 5 was poorly executed on every level. Because really... if you're going to assassinate Jon for bringing back the Wildlings, why open the gate lol. Why is no one, not even Jon, stressing the threat of the Others given what we see at Hardhome? Jon only sits around and mopes with Sam. It's so ridiculous.
 
VARIA

VARIA

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Am I allowed to talk about the released chapters for The Winds of Winter? I'll spoil my question, just in case:

I just finished reading six unreleased chapters: Theon, Arianne, Barristan, Tyrion, Mercy, and Alayne. I know there are others as well, read by GRRM at conventions. There's another Tyrion, Barristan, and Arianee plus a Victarian. Are these available anywhere? Also, when GRMM releases these early chapters, do they make their way into the next took unchanged? Or are they normally rough drafts?

Oh, and a white dragon!? What the hell is this white dragon that Tyrion sees!?

EDIT -- Moving to the book thread. Sorry!
Click to expand...

Haven't read these chapters but
I've always suspected that the White Walkers will have an Ice Dragon(s), especially when you take into consideration that GRRM has a book called "The Ice Dragon" I know I may be reaching but it makes sense to me and will make the final war that much more epic if true.
 
H

Henkka

Banned
VARIA said:
Haven't read these chapters but
I've always suspected that the White Walkers will have an Ice Dragon(s), especially when you take into consideration that GRRM has a book called "The Ice Dragon" I know I may be reaching but it makes sense to me and will make the final war that much more epic if true.
Click to expand...

Hmm, maybe. But it seems to me that GRRM always makes sure not to make things too "cool" or "epic". We're probably not getting an apocalyptic showdown between the forces of good and evil, at least in the traditional sense.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Henkka said:
Hmm, maybe. But it seems to me that GRRM always makes sure not to make things too "cool" or "epic". We're probably not getting an apocalyptic showdown between the forces of good and evil, at least in the traditional sense.
Click to expand...

There's a great YouTube channel called Alt Shift X that has theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire. His theory on how the series could end is really intriguing. I wouldn't be surprised if there's no epic battle at all.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Cornballer said:
- Scriptnotes podcast with D&D this week

Apparently they get into a lengthy discussion of the original pilot and why most if it had to be scrapped.


Also...

- Watchers on the Wall compile a bunch of cast interviews from the SAG awards


I would imagine we're due a new trailer soon, presumably when Vinyl premieres on the 14th, if not before then.
Click to expand...
Not much new info in the podcast but interesting to listen to nonetheless. Only new detail I heard was that there will supposedly be a scene
with 1000 extras in the throne room. Not sure if they were talking about season 6 or 7.
 
R

Rogue Agent

Banned
Cornballer said:
- Scriptnotes podcast with D&D this week

Apparently they get into a lengthy discussion of the original pilot and why most if it had to be scrapped.


Also...

- Watchers on the Wall compile a bunch of cast interviews from the SAG awards


I would imagine we're due a new trailer soon, presumably when Vinyl premieres on the 14th, if not before then.
Click to expand...

There's a segment in the podcast where they ask Benioff and Weiss to compare GoT characters to Presidential Candidates. When they ask who Ted Cruz is, they both answer Joffrey and they respond "Not Ramsay?" And Benioff disagrees saying "No, actually, Ramsay is a badass, he fights... yeah." Pretty telling about their mindset when writing scenes for that character. The supervillain/writer's pet jokes for show Ramsay don't sound far from the truth here.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
Rogue Agent said:
There's a segment in the podcast where they ask Benioff and Weiss to compare GoT characters to Presidential Candidates. When they ask who Ted Cruz is, they both answer Joffrey and they respond "Not Ramsay?" And Benioff disagrees saying "No, actually, Ramsay is a badass, he fights... yeah." Pretty telling about their mindset when writing scenes for that character. The supervillain/writer's pet jokes for show Ramsay don't sound far from the truth here.
Click to expand...

Jesus.
 
M

mantidor

Member
Rogue Agent said:
There's a segment in the podcast where they ask Benioff and Weiss to compare GoT characters to Presidential Candidates. When they ask who Ted Cruz is, they both answer Joffrey and they respond "Not Ramsay?" And Benioff disagrees saying "No, actually, Ramsay is a badass, he fights... yeah." Pretty telling about their mindset when writing scenes for that character. The supervillain/writer's pet jokes for show Ramsay don't sound far from the truth here.
Click to expand...

Not surprising honestly.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Rogue Agent said:
There's a segment in the podcast where they ask Benioff and Weiss to compare GoT characters to Presidential Candidates. When they ask who Ted Cruz is, they both answer Joffrey and they respond "Not Ramsay?" And Benioff disagrees saying "No, actually, Ramsay is a badass, he fights... yeah." Pretty telling about their mindset when writing scenes for that character. The supervillain/writer's pet jokes for show Ramsay don't sound far from the truth here.
Click to expand...

Ughhhhhhh.
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
Reminds me of the Harry Potter films where Hermione got to do everything at the expense of Ron and Harry because she was the writers' favorite.
 
D

duckroll

Member
What's wrong with Ramsay being a badass? It makes the show more entertaining for me. Maybe you're all just jealous that you don't have twenty good friends?
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Meh, the show is the show. But it definitely is another insight into the showrunner's dudebro prospective. Reminds me of one of them saying Needle represents revenge, or Neil Marshall's comments about one of them pressing him to add nudity to an episode.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
They were also referring to Ramsay as a "badass" in comparison to Joffrey...as a joke comparison of GoT characters for presidential candidates. Come on, it's not a serious analysis...
 
D

duckroll

Member
Nothing wrong with going full dudebro on a show like this. I was honestly going to drop the show since.the adaptation is kinda bad, but then Karl Fookin' Tanner had that great stupid arc that ended with him getting skewered in such a hilariously low brow badass way I just knew I had to keep watching. This is how they retain viewership.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
duckroll said:
Nothing wrong with going full dudebro on a show like this. I was honestly going to drop the show since.the adaptation is kinda bad, but then Karl Fookin' Tanner had that great stupid arc that ended with him getting skewered in such a hilariously low brow badass way I just knew I had to keep watching. This is how they retain viewership.
Click to expand...

Karl Tanner was a riot. And he keeps on delivering because I get to laugh at all the people who hate his very existence.

I really have no problems with the show embracing the schlock, it's an adaptation of a pulpy fantasy series, run with it.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Tha fookin' legend!

On another note, HBO please give us a trailer thanks in advance!

I know it's probably not happening until the Vinyl premiere
 
F

Faddy

Banned
I don't understand the complaints about Ramsay. If being of the North is supposed to mean something, travel rough terrain, fight ferrociously, harder than the southerners etc then surely Ramsey a man castle trained, a skilled hunter and tracker in his prime will be one of most adept at combat.

All of that is in the books. He tricks Theon, raises an army, cuts through the Stark forces at 5-1 against and takes Winterfell. It is even remarked that the Bolton men were better lead than the Stark men.

Ramsay is clearly described in the books as a badass. He takes Moat Cailin and flays every Ironborn for goodness sake.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
I'm curious as to how the Boltons got such a large army in the last episode. It isn't depicted that big in the books from anything i can recall.

Makes me wonder if the Karstarks have joined with the Boltons.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
I wish Ramsay was a cool badass and not such a cheap comicbook goon
I understand their intentions, the story needs a good antagonist, but book Ramsay is a cheap character
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Moff said:
I wish Ramsay was a cool badass and not such a cheap comicbook goon
I understand their intentions, the story needs a good antagonist, but book Ramsay is a cheap character
Click to expand...

Agreed, I would love them give him some depth and show some humanity or just something that wasn't moustache twirling.

then again, he is worse in the book...
 
L

Layell

Member
Ramsay in the book at least has more of an explanation on why he hates being a bastard, I hate how it was glossed over for the most part in the show.

Show Ramsay spent an entire season messing with Theon's head and a fake escape attempt.
 
C

CassSept

Member
Maybe this is a little offtopic, but I need help because it's been bothering me for over a week now.

After Red Wedding episode 3 years ago there was a gif posted from what I believe were The Simpsons. It was a gif of something falling into the river, onto the road etc with characters chasing that thing saying lines like "it's ok it's ok, it's only a little drowned' until accepting said subject's death "he's dead" with Robb Stark's head photoshopped in, meant to represent non-book reader's thread reactions.

I tried searching season 3 thread but it's mostly filled with dead links, does anyone perhaps has this gif saved, or could point me in the general direction of the source material?
 
B

Bigby

Member
CassSept said:
Maybe this is a little offtopic, but I need help because it's been bothering me for over a week now.

After Red Wedding episode 3 years ago there was a gif posted from what I believe were The Simpsons. It was a gif of something falling into the river, onto the road etc with characters chasing that thing saying lines like "it's ok it's ok, it's only a little drowned' until accepting said subject's death "he's dead" with Robb Stark's head photoshopped in, meant to represent non-book reader's thread reactions.

I tried searching season 3 thread but it's mostly filled with dead links, does anyone perhaps has this gif saved, or could point me in the general direction of the source material?
Click to expand...

This one
tbQkjbP.gif
?
 
C

CassSept

Member
Bigby said:
This one http://i.imgur.com/tbQkjbP.gif[IMG]?[/QUOTE]

Yesss, great, that's it, thank you so very much. Now I can finally use it to discuss The Revenant.


To be a bit more on topic, I think in theory a season of Ramsay torturing Theon made sense, but it was too repetitive and as the show went on it went off rails with Ramsay's characterization. He's an ugly, disgusting human being and they made him into an immortal deity.
Click to expand...
 
J

jett

D-Member
duckroll said:
Nothing wrong with going full dudebro on a show like this. I was honestly going to drop the show since.the adaptation is kinda bad, but then Karl Fookin' Tanner had that great stupid arc that ended with him getting skewered in such a hilariously low brow badass way I just knew I had to keep watching. This is how they retain viewership.
Click to expand...

lol

HBO's GoT is really unabashedly trashy as far as I'm concerned. Either you're into that or you're not. And a lot of people are into it. I honestly don't know what drives the popularity of shows like this and The Walking Dead. And I watch those shows! They haven't gone full True Blood yet though, but they're really getting there. Each season they start giving less fucks. It's honestly kinda amazing something like this wins Best Drama at the Emmys.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
duckroll said:
What's wrong with Ramsay being a badass? It makes the show more entertaining for me. Maybe you're all just jealous that you don't have twenty good friends?
Click to expand...

He is not a badass though. He is a little gnat with super powers. I mean he is scrawny, hasn't learned how to fight and yet can scythe down actual soldiers in battle. His only armour is his plot armour.

Okay saw your next post about Tanner. Well done.
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I forgot about Karl fookin Tanner...I liked him to and spent quite a while mimicking his voice after that episode...I am the lowest common dominator, but damn it I like to be entertained.
 
M

mantidor

Member
Tanner was not in the books was he? I think we knew long ago the kind of quality D&D would give us when they have no direct book source material, but we were in denial I guess.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
D&D are capable of writing good content.
The Cersei/Robert scene in season 1 was very good, GRRM level in my opinon.
and even elio&linda liked the scene where stannis talks to his daughter about the doll that infected her in season 5.
they can do that, but apparently they think their audience loves dumb shit, and looking at the ratings they seem to be right.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
Moff said:
D&D are capable of writing good content.
The Cersei/Robert scene in season 1 was very good, GRRM level in my opinon.
and even elio&linda liked the scene where stannis talks to his daughter about the doll that infected her in season 5.
they can do that, but apparently they think their audience loves dumb shit, and looking at the ratings they seem to be right.
Click to expand...

This seems true. Most non-reader fans I know in real life like the show for its pulpy shit. It's disappointing, but that's the reality of the situation.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Exterminieren said:
I just think Ramsey might be a bad character, in all his guises.
Click to expand...

There's something to this, certainly. I'm just not sure book Ramsay was MEANT to be a fully fleshed out character. I loved that we only ever see him from Theon's POV, and he went from the devil on Theon's shoulder as Reek in CoK, to an infallible god (again, specifically from Theon's point of view) that other characters casually disregard, or don't act with much fear or deference towards.

I think what I'm saying is, I see Ramsay as more a tool of Theon's overall journey of self-discovery (Theon's story is probably my favorite in the books), but it seems like D+D needed a Joffrey level antagonist, so we get Ramsay "Twentygoodmen" Bolton.


Moff said:
D&D are capable of writing good content.
The Cersei/Robert scene in season 1 was very good, GRRM level in my opinon.
and even elio&linda liked the scene where stannis talks to his daughter about the doll that infected her in season 5.
they can do that, but apparently they think their audience loves dumb shit, and looking at the ratings they seem to be right.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though it leaves a bad aftertaste for me since they jammed it in there to increase the #shock when he burns her at the end of the season.
 
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