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CNN: Senate to investigate possible Trump-Russia ties

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B

BowieZ

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
Obviously not an equivalence, but nonetheless, a lot of the headlines shared here e.g. impeachment likely, and responses to it, remind me of comments from the Right following Obama's election.
Click to expand...
You mean, all the comments that were inflamed by Trump's very own Birther movement that had no IC basis whatsoever and was a theory derided from both sides of the aisle?

And you're right, it's absolutely not equivalent, so I don't see the point of your post.
 
P

Polarbear

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
A lot of the headlines shared here e.g. impeachment likely, and responses to it, remind me of comments from the Right following Obama's election.
Click to expand...

Except the right had jack shit to base impeachment demands on other than false citizen claims AKA outright racism.

And here we already have the most scandal-ridden President since Nixon and he hasn't even taken office yet. An absolute mountain of ethics problems too.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
BowieZ said:
You mean, all the comments that were inflamed by Trump's very own Birther movement that had no IC basis whatsoever and was a theory derided from both sides of the aisle?

And you're right, it's absolutely not equivalent, so I don't see the point of your post.
Click to expand...

People getting excited by placing their hopes of having an elected President removed on something that will ultimately amount to nothing.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
People getting excited by placing their hopes of having an elected President removed on something that will ultimately amount to nothing.
Click to expand...
Last I checked, Obama's birth certificate wasn't the cause of a closed senate session, so this already has more credibility. That's ignoring the bipartisian comitee that's tackling this, as well as the original source being an ex-MI6 agent.

But sure, birthers and this scandal have the same weight in your reality.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
  • America chose to elect a man who wanted to torture and "more."
  • Bases his thinking on whomever he last spoke of.
  • Wanted to ban all Muslims from coming into the country and have the ones already living here placed on a database.
  • Announces his campaign by talking about "Mexican rapists."
  • Has the vocabulary of an 8 year old and the maturity of a 7 year old.
  • Believes that climate change is a hoax by the Chinese.
  • The FBI having this dossier since the summer and have been either unwilling, or unable, to corroborate its contents.

Nothing has changed except CNN mentioning that Trump was made aware of the dossier.

It is still the same country with the same illiterate group of voters, half of whom blame this all on Obama or Clinton, and the other half seemingly thinking all the above will be undone because the media are talking about it more.
 
P

Polarbear

Banned
Infinite Stars said:
Last I checked, Obama's birth certificate wasn't the cause of a closed senate session, so this already has more credibility. That's ignoring the bipartisian comitee that's tackling this, as well as the original source being an ex-MI6 agent.

But sure, birthers and this scandal have the same weight in your reality.
Click to expand...

lol was about to post exactly this

Meus Renaissance said:
  • America chose to elect a man who wanted to torture and "more."
  • Bases his thinking on whomever he last spoke of.
  • Wanted to ban all Muslims from coming into the country and have the ones already living here placed on a database.
  • Announces his campaign by talking about "Mexican rapists."
  • Has the vocabulary of an 8 year old and the maturity of a 7 year old.
  • The FBI having this dossier since the summer and have been either unwilling, or unable, to corroborate its contents.

Nothing has changed except CNN mentioning that Trump was made aware of the dossier.

It is still the same country with the same illiterate group of voters, half of whom blame this all on Obama or Clinton.
Click to expand...

The last point is just completely wrong but I'm on mobile so hopefully someone else can cover why

To start, a bipartisan senate approved investigation has been approved since then
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
SuperBowser said:
Both sides are the same? Incredible insight :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah, the person who also posted

Meus Renaissance said:
  • America chose to elect a man who wanted to torture and "more."
  • Bases his thinking on whomever he last spoke of.
  • Wanted to ban all Muslims from coming into the country and have the ones already living here placed on a database.
  • Announces his campaign by talking about "Mexican rapists."
  • Has the vocabulary of an 8 year old and the maturity of a 7 year old.
  • Believes that climate change is a hoax by the Chinese.
  • The FBI having this dossier since the summer and have been either unwilling, or unable, to corroborate its contents.

Nothing has changed except CNN mentioning that Trump was made aware of the dossier.

It is still the same country with the same illiterate group of voters, half of whom blame this all on Obama or Clinton, and the other half seemingly thinking all the above will be undone because the media are talking about it more.
Click to expand...

right after that post is obviously someone who thinks both parties are the same.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
SuperBowser said:
Both sides are the same? Incredible insight :eek:
Click to expand...

No, of course not, there is no equivalence in terms of their argument.

But my point is that we all know none of this will amount to anything. There is no evidence pointing to the likelihood of an impeachment if the original allegations themselves have not been corroborated, or even investigated.

We need to slow down. Nothing has changed, and I don't believe anything will. I've said it a few times before, the United States faces a fundamental threat to it's democracy if truth, facts and evidence can be subjective, as it seems to be right now; the problem isn't Trump himself but the condition that has allowed people to see him as a viable choice.
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
No, of course not, there is no equivalence in terms of their argument.

But my point is that we all know none of this will amount to anything. There is no evidence pointing to the likelihood of an impeachment if the original allegations themselves have not been corroborated, or even investigated.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely. There will be no impeachment because he'll never take office. IC knows Trump is a fraud. His real name isn't even Trump. It's Drumpf. And then go on from there that he and his allies are Russian agents.

The IC will never allow him to be Commander-In-Chief. Not for a second. We'll find out soon enough.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
ErasureAcer said:
I disagree completely. There will be no impeachment because he'll never take office. IC knows Trump is a fraud. His real name isn't even Trump. It's Drumpf. And then go on from there that he and his allies are Russian agents.

The IC will never allow him to be Commander-In-Chief. Not for a second. We'll find out soon enough.
Click to expand...
Pulling out that Drumpf stuff is not a good look for your position.
 
H

Henkka

Banned
ErasureAcer said:
I disagree completely. There will be no impeachment because he'll never take office. IC knows Trump is a fraud. His real name isn't even Trump. It's Drumpf. And then go on from there that he and his allies are Russian agents.

The IC will never allow him to be Commander-In-Chief. Not for a second. We'll find out soon enough.
Click to expand...

What? His great-grandfather or something legally changed his name, there's nothing illegitimate about it. The Drumpf thing was always pointless
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Polarbear said:
The last point is just completely wrong but I'm on mobile so hopefully someone else can cover why

To start, a bipartisan senate approved investigation has been approved since then
Click to expand...

I don't believe it'll lead anywhere. Why? Responding to the question of why the FBI had not investigated the allegations, Director Comey offered this:

Mr. Comey came on Friday to offering an explanation for his actions was to say he would only disclose an ongoing investigation if the public had an overwhelming need to know about it or if it was obvious there was one underway. He said he did not believe any possible investigation into Trump or his associates met either standard.
​

In other words, the public would be made aware if they could corroborate enough of the material to justify an investigation. The implication being that they have not been able to.
 
P

Polarbear

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
I don't believe it'll lead anywhere. Why? Responding to the question of why the FBI had not investigated the allegations, Director Comey offered this:

Mr. Comey came on Friday to offering an explanation for his actions was to say he would only disclose an ongoing investigation if the public had an overwhelming need to know about it or if it was obvious there was one underway. He said he did not believe any possible investigation into Trump or his associates met either standard.
​

In other words, the public would be made aware if they could corroborate enough of the material to justify an investigation. The implication being that they have not been able to.
Click to expand...

And Comey is being investigated by the justice department as we speak. Hmmmmm.
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
Pandaman said:
Pulling out that Drumpf stuff is not a good look for your position.
Click to expand...

How so?

The point being is Trump lies about everything. He is a con man. A fraudster. A Russian agent. On top of that he's a child with no self-control. No sense of right and wrong.

If our government is absolutely insane...they'll let him take office. If they have any sense of decency...they'll put in the next in line that is eligible, Hatch or Ryan...whomever it is.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
I don't believe it'll lead anywhere. Why? Responding to the question of why the FBI had not investigated the allegations, Director Comey offered this:

Mr. Comey came on Friday to offering an explanation for his actions was to say he would only disclose an ongoing investigation if the public had an overwhelming need to know about it or if it was obvious there was one underway. He said he did not believe any possible investigation into Trump or his associates met either standard.
​

In other words, the public would be made aware if they could corroborate enough of the material to justify an investigation. The implication being that they have not been able to.
Click to expand...

Comey is also the same asshat who released a notice saying "Hillary's Email scandal is reopened" yet refused to say anything on Trump because "We don't comment on active investigations". He's also had the report(or at least parts of it) from Steele since June, so it wasn't a matter of having nothing.

Corey is not to be trusted on this matter in my opinion, because he has repeatedly played partisan in what should be a non-partisan office.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
ErasureAcer said:
How so?

The point being is Trump lies about everything. He is a con man. A fraudster. A Russian agent. On top of that he's a child with no self-control. No sense of right and wrong.

If our government is absolutely insane...they'll let him take office. If they have any sense of decency...they'll put in the next in line that is eligible, Hatch or Ryan...whomever it is.
Click to expand...
But that isn't a lie, Trump was never named Drumpf. Not for one second of his life. It's birther tier nonsense that just makes you look like you're grasping for anything to discredit him. There's no shortage of real lies when it comes to Trump, so why use the fake one?
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
Pandaman said:
But that isn't a lie, Trump was never named Drumpf. Not for one second of his life. It's birther tier nonsense that just makes you look like you're grasping for anything to discredit him. There's no shortage of real lies when it comes to Trump, so why use the fake one?
Click to expand...

That's why I listed it first(nothing) to the last being biggest(Russian Agent, OMG!!!). You're making mountains out of molehills.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
Infinite Stars said:
Comey is also the same asshat who released a notice saying "Hillary's Email scandal is reopened" yet refused to say anything on Trump because "We don't comment on active investigations". He's also had the report(or at least parts of it) from Steele since June, so it wasn't a matter of having nothing.

Corey is not to be trusted on this matter in my opinion, because he has repeatedly played partisan in what should be a non-partisan office.
Click to expand...

Polarbear said:
And Comey is being investigated by the justice department as we speak. Hmmmmm.
Click to expand...

Democrat position

  • You informed Congress, and therefore the public, that you were continuing the investigation into Clinton. But here you are now telling us you cannot share whether or not you are investigating the Trump dossier.
However, on the day he sent the letter, he emailed employers at the FBI explaining his decision to inform Congress about an ongoing investigation. His reasoning - which I find perfectly acceptable - is this:

”Of course, we don't ordinarily tell Congress about ongoing investigations, but here I feel an obligation to do so given that I testified repeatedly in recent months that our investigation was completed," Comey wrote.
​

He echoed this in the letter to Congress itself, explaining that they were being informed purely because he had tested to them them originally the investigation was complete. If he had not informed them, and the investigation - hypothetically - led to a damning conclusion only after the election, the Republicans would have been justified in demanding to know why they were not informed of changes when he had testified the investigation was finished.

I'm not aware of any other argument from the Democrats.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
We need to slow down. Nothing has changed, and I don't believe anything will. I've said it a few times before, the United States faces a fundamental threat to it's democracy if truth, facts and evidence can be subjective, as it seems to be right now; the problem isn't Trump himself but the condition that has allowed people to see him as a viable choice.
Click to expand...

I think there is no good solution. If Trump takes presidency, these allegations will never be shaken from him. It has huge implications to the country and the world at large if somebody can take office of America after serious concerns have been raised about their conduct, ethics, hacking, backdoor deals and potential of treason.
So many cabinet positions and advisors have dubious connections to Russia, one has to question if ignoring it all is actually the correct path.

Meus Renaissance said:
However, on the day he sent the letter, he emailed employers at the FBI explaining his decision to inform Congress about an ongoing investigation. His reasoning - which I find perfectly acceptable - is this:

“Of course, we don't ordinarily tell Congress about ongoing investigations, but here I feel an obligation to do so given that I testified repeatedly in recent months that our investigation was completed,” Comey wrote.
​
Click to expand...

Personally I don't view this reason as perfectly acceptable. There is definitely room to debate his decision.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
ErasureAcer said:
That's why I listed it first(nothing) to the last being biggest(Russian Agent, OMG!!!). You're making mountains out of molehills.
Click to expand...
No, I'm not. Because if you open with a lie its going to carry into everything else you say. "This guy was gullible enough to believe that Drumpf nonsense, so how seriously can we take these Russian claims?"

Why would you intentionally want a weak argument? You set yourself up to be dismissed.
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
SuperBowser said:
Personally I don't view this reason as perfectly acceptable. There is definitely room to debate his decision.
Click to expand...

And had he not done so, and the investigation concluded criminality, he would then have had to announce that, despite testifying that the investigation was closed, he chose not to inform Congress of new information. This by a director appointed by a Democrat President. He would have been accused of conspiring to ensure a Clinton victory.

He made the right decision in my opinion, especially when you consider that he had already closed the investigation originally saying there was nothing to prosecute, a decision that if we recall left many of his fellow Republicans in dismay.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
Dalek said:
Thank God Buzzfeed blew the lid off thing thing by dumping it all on the internet-and fuck any reporter who thinks it was wrong. This was being kept a secret from the public and now that it's out there shit is happening.
Click to expand...

Buzz feed are basically BlackWidow in Winter Soldier and Trump is Hydra!
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Meus Renaissance said:
A lot of the headlines shared here e.g. impeachment likely, and responses to it, remind me of comments from the Right following Obama's election.
Click to expand...

None of this is remotely equivalent to the Obama situation. Which was a farce.

This is a historical moment regardless of the outcome, and you need to realise this.
 
Z

ZeroMaverick

Member
Wait. Okay. Dumb question here. But say they find out that Russia did make it so that Trump won. Wouldn't that mean his entire ticket (including Pence) would have to be booted?
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
ZeroMaverick said:
Wait. Okay. Dumb question here. But say they find out that Russia did make it so that Trump won. Wouldn't that mean his entire ticket (including Pence) would have to be booted?
Click to expand...

New elections would be great, but I'm thinking that wouldn't be the first thing to fall back to. If the top of the ticket was determined to be sufficiently compromised and a threat to national security, so would the rest. Whatever happens, there will forever be another dark shadow cast upon our democratic process.
 
G

Ghostshark

Member
ErasureAcer said:
His real name isn't even Trump. It's Drumpf.
Click to expand...

Despite hating Trump more than anyone else in the world, I dislike this line of thinking. This isn't even a criticism of the man, a lot of people have had surname adjustments over the years to "Americanize" names. My last name was spelled differently until my family migrated to the country through Eliss Island. The beginning of the name was changed from Nijss to Nice because it wasn't spelled like it sounded.
 
R

RedShift

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
New elections would be great, but I'm thinking that wouldn't be the first thing to fall back to. If the top of the ticket was determined to be sufficiently compromised and a threat to national security, so would the rest. Whatever happens, there will forever be another dark shadow cast upon our democratic process.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure there's no mechanism in the US Constitution for rerunning presidential elections.
 
N

newshinycd

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
New elections would be great, but I'm thinking that wouldn't be the first thing to fall back to. If the top of the ticket was determined to be sufficiently compromised and a threat to national security, so would the rest. Whatever happens, there will forever be another dark shadow cast upon our democratic process.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be the first thing that it falls back to because there isn't anything that allows it in our Constitution. Paul Ryan would end up President if both Trump and Pence are thrown out.
It is possible for Congress to pass a law calling for new elections.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
RedShift said:
Pretty sure there's no mechanism in the US Constitution for rerunning presidential elections.
Click to expand...

Technically, can there still be a re-election in the form of the electoral college?

Say Trump/Pence get disqualified because of Russia, wouldn't that just mean taking the 304 electoral votes Trump won and redistributing them to the next legimate candidates that ran in the election?
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
newshinycd said:
It wouldn't be the first thing that it falls back to because there just anything that allows it in our Constitution. Paul Ryan would end up President if both Trump and Pence are thrown out.
It is possible for Congress to pass a law calling for new elections.
Click to expand...

I'm not clear on the process if he's not sworn in yet when a decision is made, but those rules of succession might apply.
 
S

Syncytia

Member
JordanN said:
Technically, can there still be a re-election in the form of the electoral college?

Say Trump/Pence get disqualified because of Russia, wouldn't that just mean taking the 304 electoral votes Trump won and redistributing them to the next legimate candidates that ran in the election?
Click to expand...

I didn't find any real info with my quick google, but there's a couple things sort of suggesting it? Or this article from a month ago, suggesting the vote be postponed until the Russia connections are investigated (but still before inauguration day).
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
newshinycd said:
It wouldn't be the first thing that it falls back to because there isn't anything that allows it in our Constitution. Paul Ryan would end up President if both Trump and Pence are thrown out.
It is possible for Congress to pass a law calling for new elections.
Click to expand...

Don't think they can pass a law for that since it is in the constitution. If my memory is correct if the EC cannot determine a winner by Jan 20 then the House chooses the next POTUS. Which case would be Ryan.

Jan 20 is too close for something to happen, he will be President. Important thing is there is now the committee to investigate and able to call people under oath. Trump cannot stop that. As much faith as I have in Republicans (less than zero) there is the opportunity to look deeper and publicly into these ties.
 
P

pestul

Member
I don't know why people are worried about a Republican leaning Senate committee. If they try to kybosh the investigation there would be a ton of whistleblowers. The Senate Democrats and others in a disenfranchised intelligence community that would be constantly poking the hot coals. If there's anything provable it will go down.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
No one will fully recover from this. It will be a reminder that people and the GOP and electoral college picked a Russian plant with no political experience over Hilary thanks to smear campaigns, fake news propaganda, Russian cyber attacks and good ol' fashioned misogyny.
 
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