Fredrik
Member
Ah okay
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Scorpio GPU Equivalent to a GTX 1070?
- Thread starter Alpha Phoenix
- Start date
Fredrik
Member
Yup, wouldn't make any sense. But if XB1 are going to run everything too I guess they don't need much more CPU power, it's just an upgrade, same games with better graphics.
If you want the best version of RDR2, almost certainly, yes.
This pretty much, it's always messy to talk about NVflops vs. AMDflops but it's still true for the time being, best example is RX480 vs. GTX1060. [5.8TF vs 4.4TF] This even remains true with lightweigt APIs where AMD hardware gets better performance.
Well truth to be told we really don't know if Vega new architecture changes will close the flops efficiency gap or if Scorpio will use Vega, so there's some room for speculation.
TheGreyHulk
Member
This amd tflop vs nvidia tflop is getting ridiculous.
It doesnt matter. Scorpio isnt comparable to rx480. It's vega based which is a new architecture that's different than rx480.
It's a 6 tflop gpuand that's all we know. How efficient the architecture is has yet to be seen since we dont have vega to test yet, but we do know vega is much improved over polaris in performace per watt.
It doesnt matter. Scorpio isnt comparable to rx480. It's vega based which is a new architecture that's different than rx480.
It's a 6 tflop gpuand that's all we know. How efficient the architecture is has yet to be seen since we dont have vega to test yet, but we do know vega is much improved over polaris in performace per watt.
Rellik
Member
Or just buy it on your Pro and then double dip in a Steam sale later. I'm not seeing why you need to buy a whole new console for a small improvement over what you already own.
MilkyJoe
Member
Until Scorpio is in the Xbone position and Sagittarius is the next box tethered to a Jaguar?... I don't buy it.
Because RDR2 is by far my most hyped game of the year and even a small improvement will probably be enough to sway me over. It'll be interesting to see how big the difference is.
With ~2TF of more raw gpu power, 320gb/s bandwidth, and 12gb of ram you can expect better AF, higher res textures, better samples for effects like motion blur, better draw distance/lod, cleaner iq and fps
Skyr
Member
I feel ya.. I got a hefty pc and a slim but I will get whatever is necessary to play a new Rockstar title in the best possible way.
Just depending of the resolution. It's not necessaraly mandatory. And more than everything, it's all in the developers hands like on ps4 pro.
dr_rus
Member
Vega is about as different from RX480 as RX480 is different from 380/Fury. I.e. not very different at all but improved in several areas. It would be hard to use it for a console mid-cycle upgrade otherwise.
SirPinkyNose
Member
RX 480 is very different from 380/Fury tho. 14nm to be exact.
Beerman462
Member
Im saying a GPU in a console doesn't operate more efficiently than it will in a PC. This is known. There was a time where CPU overhead on PC was a bit of an issue, GPUs didn't. Now a first party developer can use the GPU a bit more smartly, but they will still have to make sacrifices here and there.
Hairsplash
Member
well a ps4pro has 2304:144:32 ( unified shaders : texture mapping units : render output units ) base clock 911
A rx480 has 2304:144:32 base clock 1120..
A rx470 has 2048:128:32 base clock 926
a ps4 has 50% more shaders than the xboxone... and the SCORPIO ( assumedly) has 4-5 times "power" of the Xbox one...
Which one could ASSUME means an r9 fury which has 3584:224:64... which has about 50% more "stuff" as then rx480..
Thus it is possible that a scorpio is less powerful than a gtx1070 and more powerful than a gtx1060.
(The techpowerup review is using a 4GHZ intel i7, which is around 2.5 times faster than a xboxone processor.)
All depends on the speed of the apu/cpu in the scorpio, if it is 3.2GHZ we are Golden, a really for 60hz 1080p gaming... or 4K (depending on the genius of the programmer)
big problem is Microsoft does not have a "Mark Cerny"... so who knows what fatal mistake they made in a the Scorpio ...
A rx480 has 2304:144:32 base clock 1120..
A rx470 has 2048:128:32 base clock 926
a ps4 has 50% more shaders than the xboxone... and the SCORPIO ( assumedly) has 4-5 times "power" of the Xbox one...
Which one could ASSUME means an r9 fury which has 3584:224:64... which has about 50% more "stuff" as then rx480..
Thus it is possible that a scorpio is less powerful than a gtx1070 and more powerful than a gtx1060.
(The techpowerup review is using a 4GHZ intel i7, which is around 2.5 times faster than a xboxone processor.)
All depends on the speed of the apu/cpu in the scorpio, if it is 3.2GHZ we are Golden, a really for 60hz 1080p gaming... or 4K (depending on the genius of the programmer)
big problem is Microsoft does not have a "Mark Cerny"... so who knows what fatal mistake they made in a the Scorpio ...
dr_rus
Member
Production process has nothing to do with the architecture. But in that sense sure, Vega will likely be even less different since it'll use the same 14nm process.
killatopak
Gold Member
Why would they need a "Mark Cerny" when there is people like him that already work for AMD?
Caayn
Member
FLOPS are counted the same across vendors. It's just that Nvidia manages to produce a more effective architecture, resulting in better performance.
GFLOPS = cores * (clock in Mhz/1000) * 2
SirPinkyNose
Member
AMD's performance gain after the leap was disappointing comparing to Nvidia. However the 14nm tech is still there for them to optimise to get that huge jump in the future.
I'm curious about the level of improvements we'll see as well. Currently mutliplat titles on Pro are marginally better but don't seem to truly challenge the system like something like Horizon. At least for the near future, games will be still be developed with the least common denominator in mind. Will developers dedicate the time and resources for re-texturing for a single platform? Or will they play it safe and simply allow for better performance and minor graphical improvements (AF, draw distance, texture streaming etc)?
Can't wait for DF analysis vids at the end of the year.
Beerman462
Member
I thought Vega was going to 16nm or maybe it was just a rumor.
Nah, AMD's performance gain was fine, the problem is they only released their low-end cards and didn't release a 1070/80 competitor and that they weren't quite as energy efficient.
AMD Vega will be 14nm but it will probably be 16nm in Xbox Scorpio
This post really isn't making any sense.
Because these "Mark Cerny" like people that work for AMD didn't tell them anything about the Xbox one to begin with.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Different companies, different flops etc.
Chances are Scorpio will be
Flops
Chances are Scorpio will be
a big flop full of
dr_rus
Member
That was a rumor and I think that it was debunked by this time? Not sure. In any case, it doesn't matter much if it will be on 14 GloFo or 16 TSMC as GP107 illustrated quite nicely that there's nothing inherently wrong with GloFo/Samsung 14nm process and it's unlikely that TSMC's 16nm have any kind of advantage, especially now, with the updates added to 14nm process during the last year.
Scorpio's APU can be produced anywhere too, it's up to MS to choose the factory really.
LelouchZero
Member
If the Scorpio version is a big leap over the Pro version I'll be interested in it, but all I need to hear is 60 fps and I'm on that horse day one without hesitation!
Unless of-course the PC version is announced a few months away... Nah who am I kidding, I'll be all over it!
Fried Food
Banned
already out of date. Don't come out with a game console with anything less than the best GPU at that time.
KingGreasy
Member
It isn't the best example but this discussion has been centered on teraflops as a measure of performance and what would be acceptable around 2020. While it's not a good measure of performance of products not within the same family and generation, the time it took for a high end 250W GPU's teraflops performance like the Titan X and 4850x2 to drop into an acceptable range of heat production and power draw takes years. Take the 2012 AMD 7970 GHz edition, same generation and family of cards to what appears in current consoles. 4 years until the PS4 pro came out with a comparable GPU in terms of FLOPS. The next 250W card after the 7970 was the R9-290x at 5.6 TF. 4 years later the Scorpio. Todays top GPU are at 10TF and probably soon with Vega around 12. In 2020 expecting 16-20 TF in a console I don't think is a likely scenario. By then I'd think we'd be seeing 7nm cards with ~20-24TF being the high end 250W card. So if the next console is 10-12 TF, it may perform much better than a Titan X Pascal or high end Vega, but it might not have significantly higher FLOPS compared to them.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Your contribution is special
Lend me your crystal ball.
And then there's you.
How are you going to handle that TDP without jet engine cooling? And who can afford it?
MilkyJoe
Member
Yep, MS really need a hand dryer with a polysynthetic silver deficiency.
They do have a Mark Cerny, and MS has had arguably the more powerful hardware the last two generations. It was their business plan that resulted in the XBO.
Are those people still around? I thought the entire xbox division are run by marketing people trying to chase for the next gimmic, thats how they ended up with Xbox One
AmuroChan
Member
There's no way MS is dumb enough to price Scorpio at $600.
I think $499 is pretty likely. And I do think a 6.5 tflop vega will perform pretty closely with a 1070, but not if they go with jaguar cores. If it has ryzen it will compare similarly to an i5 and 1070 I would think (probably not quite as well, but should be plenty for 1080p 60fps and actual 4k 30fps).
Beerman462
Member
Yeah, I doubt they would switch from 16nm.
That's interesting. I didn't know the 1050 used 14nm or that they had improved the process. MS will probably stick with 16nm, but you never know. I wouldn't have expected NVIDIA to use 14nm. I guess they will use whatever's available and affordable.
ethomaz
Banned
That is proof...
Proof that for low-end chip you can use GF's 14nm with moderate clocks. Show me any high-end chip using GF's 14nm and you can start to talk about it.
TSMC's 16nm is most close any Foundry reached to Intel... anybody saying GF's 14nm is in the same level has no ideia about what is talking.
GTX 1050 uses 14nm because it is a low-end chip with ~1.4Ghz clock.
Try to use GF's 14nm in any high-end chip.
PS. GF's 14nm is probably cheaper than TSMC's 16nm... that why is better to use it for low/mid-end GPUs that didn't require high clocks... for high-end chip you will prefer the more expensive TSMC's 16nm.
dr_rus
Member
Ryzen will be out in a couple of days and it's very much on the same clocks / consumption level as what Intel has with their 14nm. So no idea what you're talking about.
GP107 clocks are limited by it's ability to dissipate power which is in turn limited by its small size. There is no evidence that TSMC's 16nm are any better than what GloFo/Samsung have right now at 14.
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap when the leaks shows 5.2GHz with LN2 at 2 vcore you know something is not right.
BTW where you saw power consumption???
We can back to discussion when Reviews releases...