Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
This is considerably more eloquent and to the point than "fuck the police" with the added bonus of not attracting people who revel in discord.
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Black History Month - Post Traumatic Slave syndrome by Dr Joy deGruy Leary
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
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This is considerably more eloquent and to the point than "fuck the police" with the added bonus of not attracting people who revel in discord.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Thank you, fellas. I'm not a mod, nor the NeoGAF police. Just figure we have some regular conversation in these threads, considering not many post in them as it is. Do you, obviously..
kame-sennin
Member
Respectability politics...
But you are tone policing. The police are an instrument of white supremacy, and the video in the OP explains in detail how they function, referencing them directly. You ought to question why you had the urge to jump on my comment criticizing this - before any of these hypothetical trolls reared their heads - because it was 'not eloquent' or 'might rile people up'. In this thread more than any other, black people need to examine themselves and their need to appear respectable and non-confrontational.
This isn't a thread derail, by the way. This is the subject. Why do we behave the way we do in discussions about race? Why are we able to dispassionately talk about systemic rape, but saying, "fuck police" is a little too crass? As the author explains, we have been conditioned to view black people as deserving of the ill treatment they receive. So lashing out at that treatment, even verbally, is seen as out of line - both to whites and blacks.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Fine.
Type "fuck the police" until your keyboard breaks, no one's stopping you.
Enjoy yourself.
And laughing my motherfucking ass off at me or Gordon being non-confrontational
Gordon Shumway
Banned
So..DO YOU. Good grief..
Dreams-Visions
Member
Loooooooong.
but quite good. I enjoyed it.
but quite good. I enjoyed it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Please do not fight. This is unnecessary and takes from the content of the video.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You know what? I want to be tossed right now at the bullshit, idiotic insinuation..but, since you asked 😁
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Go fly a kite, bozo..
Gordon Shumway
Banned
It really is that good. I ran it a second time just to soak it all in..
Incitemaybe
Member
Just finished watching and I'm so glad I did, great points by a great speaker. Thanks for sharing this here.
Damn, that's straight up Old Testament
ryutaro's mama
Member
This video is that work.
Thanks for the post.
Too bad things like this aren't taught in schools.
Thanks for the post.
Too bad things like this aren't taught in schools.
The video pretty much touches on why it isn't. I think she gives a lecture specifically about that as well.
MisterShine
Member
This was a really great video.
The historical figures part was especially of interest. I am a high school biology teacher, and so for certain topics I have to discuss some of the important figures to the history and advancement of the science. For most I do mention that these were White-Men-From-Back-In-The-Day, which means they were ultimately pretty unpleasant people but their contributions are the focus of the lesson. In some cases I think I might spend a bit more time on the specifics of the particular fucked up notions/actions some of these people took, Linneas especially. I had no idea he'd done any of that writing.
Two 'fun' biology facts I remembered while watching the video:
1. African-Americans are actually a bit more sensitive to pain
2. Some Sub-Saharan African groups are the only humans without Neanderthal DNA, making them technically the only pure humans.
edit: 'pure human' is obviously a ridiculous notion from a biology perspective but I always thought that was amusing.
The historical figures part was especially of interest. I am a high school biology teacher, and so for certain topics I have to discuss some of the important figures to the history and advancement of the science. For most I do mention that these were White-Men-From-Back-In-The-Day, which means they were ultimately pretty unpleasant people but their contributions are the focus of the lesson. In some cases I think I might spend a bit more time on the specifics of the particular fucked up notions/actions some of these people took, Linneas especially. I had no idea he'd done any of that writing.
Two 'fun' biology facts I remembered while watching the video:
1. African-Americans are actually a bit more sensitive to pain
2. Some Sub-Saharan African groups are the only humans without Neanderthal DNA, making them technically the only pure humans.
edit: 'pure human' is obviously a ridiculous notion from a biology perspective but I always thought that was amusing.
theignoramus
Member
The version of Christianity taught to black American slaves was intended to pacify them and it did.Take a look at the other countries around the world with minorities heavily discriminated against and how many nation states descended into protracted civil war and genocide.
America should consider itself lucky its black citizens didnt invest in ideologies that encouraged violent and fierce resistance to oppression. If African American's were the savage brutes White America thought they were, Lord have mercy, there would have been a hell of a lot more violence and bloodshed visited upon them in the name of retribution.
N7Commander95
Member
Incredible video. Fantastically well made and informative
You know, its funny (not funny as in humorous), when that cop was sent to jail for sexually assaulting like what? 13 Black Women.
Initially I felt amazed (horrified) how a person could warp their views and politics to justify that to themselves, but videos like this show how common and sickeningly easy people have done just that in the past and still do.
You know, its funny (not funny as in humorous), when that cop was sent to jail for sexually assaulting like what? 13 Black Women.
Initially I felt amazed (horrified) how a person could warp their views and politics to justify that to themselves, but videos like this show how common and sickeningly easy people have done just that in the past and still do.
Great video. Can't help but feel that Dr. deGruy Leary didn't get all the way through her presentation. I should see if I can't get her book at the library.
Couldn't help but feel the section on "white" racism vs "black" racism was particularly on point. Seen some of that touched upon in discussions even on Gaf.
Couldn't help but feel the section on "white" racism vs "black" racism was particularly on point. Seen some of that touched upon in discussions even on Gaf.
Yeah it was on point and it's always fascinating to see people argue otherwise.
Ploid 3.0
Member
That white racism vs black racism reminded me of that post where an anonymous white supremacist teacher cheated a black student out of graduating.
Found here. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187040282&postcount=2628
May be rage inducing.
Where as I suppose a lot of black racist that I've seen looks like black people just not trusting white people. White Devil type of talk, I haven't heard anyone say white devil though outside of tv (probably Ace Ventura hah). One of my uncles seems a bit crazy, he was in the army and told some of them to their face that he didn't trust them. There was a situation where he had to have a nurse to check him out, he said he didn't want a white one iirc, he threw a fit. I remember thinking that he's probably lucky his mouth didn't get him killed as he was telling me this stuff. He ended up marrying a white lady while in Europe, the guy is crazy until today, drinks a ton, talks about the army trying to put him in some black ops suicide missions involving recovering a pilot.
Found here. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187040282&postcount=2628
May be rage inducing.
Where as I suppose a lot of black racist that I've seen looks like black people just not trusting white people. White Devil type of talk, I haven't heard anyone say white devil though outside of tv (probably Ace Ventura hah). One of my uncles seems a bit crazy, he was in the army and told some of them to their face that he didn't trust them. There was a situation where he had to have a nurse to check him out, he said he didn't want a white one iirc, he threw a fit. I remember thinking that he's probably lucky his mouth didn't get him killed as he was telling me this stuff. He ended up marrying a white lady while in Europe, the guy is crazy until today, drinks a ton, talks about the army trying to put him in some black ops suicide missions involving recovering a pilot.
Union Carbine
Member
Thanks for the link, OP. Was going to listen to this at work-- is it primarily audio or do I need to watch the video or else miss a lot of the content?
Ploid 3.0
Member
I think audio would be fine, she reads and explain all of the slides. There are some piceture which she describes also.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Should be fine with just audio. She outlines everything she is discussing in her slides.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Not necessarily. There's one part that highlights a picture and is integral to the experience of the lecture.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The lynching one?
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Almost through with it and it's really insightful. I also like how she pointed out how school tends to brush over the horrendous stuff that these founding fathers and historical figures have done. I recall one of my English teachers in High School revealing that Abraham Lincoln was a racist and quoted one of his speeches he made after abolishing slavery. He said something to the affect of that the black man will never be equal to the white man. Prior to that we were just taught that he was so great and a savior to slaves.
kame-sennin
Member
Absolutely. One of the sad ironies of post-Civil War America is that white terrorism against black people was a pre-emptive strike against an insurrection that blacks never fought nor desired. American blacks were essentially punished for white guilt.
People don't understand the difference between 'racism' and 'racial bias' because we're taught that racism is "hating someone because of the color of their skin", which is bullshit. Racism is a system of oppression, and oppression can only flow one way.
I find it disheartening to see such little discussion on interesting topics like these but long discourse over pure nonsense like the "reverse racism" of there being a Black History month. Don't mean to derail the thread or anything, but I can't help but feel my heart break that all those people working themselves into a furor over how racist attitudes or segregation are perpetuated by BET, Black History month or even simple safe spaces are nowhere to be found on things like these.
I hadn't seen that photo before and that and the
were utterly reprehensible. Like, I had known of the attitudes of those times but to just see them captured unapologetically is something else entirely.
I hadn't seen that photo before and that and the
burned man
Doubtful. African Americans would have been obliterated like Tulsa and Rosewood only worse.
Union Carbine
Member
Good to know.
Okay, I'll keep an ear out. I'll just have it playing in a browser tab so I can always click over and check it out.
EdibleKnife
Member
Extrapolating from what Gordon suggested, sometimes I think people like the idea of being blissfully ignorant. I think some people enjoy stopping at "well at one time white people were mean and now they're not". It's an enjoyable place to live since it means you can live with the lie that everything had been healed and stuff like BET and Beyoncé open old wounds that closed a long time ago. I've got no doubt that the people who make a big stink over BHM or Black Lives Matter or safe spaces and how they are "just as divisive as other types of racism" have seen this topic and skipped over it because of a deep want to stay in the dark about this.
She made it clear but truly the extent to which the majority went through to not only commit and justify atrocities but to continue them for as long as possible; it's like, if you do not know that, and if you can't wrap your head around the true pathology of racism like this, I think a person is frankly ill equipped to discuss current topics about race and enter every such conversation with such a severe handicap.
Would just like to bring up that in Brazil, atrocities were very common and the culture is still fucked up because of all those centuries of slavery, we also abolished it later than most countries.
We have here what we call modern day slavery when we look at upper middle class people and the way they treat their employees (mainly maids) "bring me a glass of water", "go shower/walk my dog", "buy those groceries". Many apartments have what we call the "maid room", a room much smaller than the other rooms with a bathroom that should be used by the maid so she doesnt have to use the "normal" bathrooms in the house.
Whole culture is full of elitism and fucked up, we've stablished quotas for black people at universities and jobs and the rich population can only yell "wheres the meritocracy?"
Yeah, I think you may be right about this. I really enjoyed how Dr. deGruy Leary touched upon that aspect early on in the presentation with the whole everyone--white and black--have been affected by the attitudes and societal divisions required by the people to sustain such a lengthy slavery system. And that it manifests in ways that no one is comfortable discussing. Seeing the difference in reaction between the audience when retelling advice told by her mother (needing to work twice as hard) and them smiling and nodding contrasted with the expressions when discussing black racism (simply feeling fear) and those stony expressions was fascinating.
To be fair, that would be pretty much any country in Latin America.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194155184&postcount=14
Como me dueles, Mexico ............
Read good post.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I thought it interesting that she's using my definition of racism. One that doesn't seem too popular anymore.
Mostly because it's what is probably considered a "legacy" definition. It came to me by way of a particular Black Power book from Charles Hamilton and Stokley Carmichael. The basic premise being that racism is an action word and as such has 2 basic components: a bigoted opinion or some sort of racial prejudice and the ability and intent to restrict freedoms, rights or access based on it. Then actually doing it. That is to say, in order to be racist, you have to have power and you have to apply it in a way that inhibits, maims or injures the target(s) in some way based on race/skin complexion/ethnicity.
At the time of the writing of that book, the general opinion was that black people couldn't be actual racists because we had no power of significant note either individually or collectively. IMO, that remains largely true today. Bigots? sure. Prejudice? certainly. But black racists? Very rare.
That made sense to me years ago when I read Stokley's definition and explanation and it still seems like the right one to me to this day. And to me, the watering down of said definition has watered down the significance of the word "racist" when it is applied. I tend to think most people don't have decent working definitions of "bigot", "prejudice" or "racist" at all and they seem to be interchangable in most people's conversation. Different (or lack of) definitions is are fundamental problem that will limit our ability to discuss these complex topics.
Mostly because it's what is probably considered a "legacy" definition. It came to me by way of a particular Black Power book from Charles Hamilton and Stokley Carmichael. The basic premise being that racism is an action word and as such has 2 basic components: a bigoted opinion or some sort of racial prejudice and the ability and intent to restrict freedoms, rights or access based on it. Then actually doing it. That is to say, in order to be racist, you have to have power and you have to apply it in a way that inhibits, maims or injures the target(s) in some way based on race/skin complexion/ethnicity.
At the time of the writing of that book, the general opinion was that black people couldn't be actual racists because we had no power of significant note either individually or collectively. IMO, that remains largely true today. Bigots? sure. Prejudice? certainly. But black racists? Very rare.
That made sense to me years ago when I read Stokley's definition and explanation and it still seems like the right one to me to this day. And to me, the watering down of said definition has watered down the significance of the word "racist" when it is applied. I tend to think most people don't have decent working definitions of "bigot", "prejudice" or "racist" at all and they seem to be interchangable in most people's conversation. Different (or lack of) definitions is are fundamental problem that will limit our ability to discuss these complex topics.
I think it's more because people want simplicity. They want to boil these complex concepts down to a sentence dictionary long dictionary definition because that way things become easier. That's really no shade at anyone but this is the case for many things.
kame-sennin
Member
The Nashville thread in a nutshell.
But that isn't a dated definition of the term, that's the actual definition. Liberalism in America has slowly morphed the definition of racism to simply be, bias based on skin color. This definition is favored because it takes the guilt out of racism by making it a general phenomenon ("everyone's a little bit racist"). As Dr. Leary explained, this is a coping mechanism to deal with the stress that acknowledging white supremacy would cause.
Dreams-Visions
Member
oooh okay. That said, it is often times very difficult to discuss certain things in some of the more volatile threads because if diverging definitions of key words.
could be. unfortunately the world is complex. very complex.
Actually, I think I agree more with Kame-Sennin's point especially in regards to this very topic. When I see people throw about the remedial definition of racism it's almost always used as a deflection attempt. Never have I seen someone honestly ask 'but I thought racism meant this".
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Gordon, by new narrative do you mean people are believing and saying that or that it is true (about the almost exclusive to the United States)?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Well I mean Nathan Forrest had a school named after him, and he's a celebrated hero in some southern states.
Let that sink in.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
America's founding principle was genocide. So it's pretty hard for that type of escapism and behavior to change any time soon.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Since a large amount of kids aren't taught about this stuff, they can't learn to not repeat it. They listen to their grandparents and get hate in their hearts, and are now treating Muslims with such hate out of fear (yes even the minorities). They want to separate families by deporting immigrants out of fear that they could be taking jobs. They praise the rich and don't mind them moving jobs to other places, or their tax evasions. They hope that trickle down economics pay off when it magically finds a way to them.
The reason we study history is to avoid the mistakes of the past.
The reason we study history is to avoid the mistakes of the past.
And is their stance from then until today. Let's not forget how much they have fucked other countries for the "manifest destiny" or "amrica for the americans**"
**we all know what they meant by that.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Absolutely. "America has a race problem." Yes. Okay. As do many many places around the globe. Just look at Meaty's post about Brazil. Dai101 has given plenty of examples of the racism in Mexico. Felt terrible for Rainbowgun and the bullshit he and others are going through in Germany and all around Europe.
People love to think they're part of some racial utopia..somehow forgetting we all live on Earth. Everyone's hands are dirty..
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