• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]

G

GorillaJu

Member
The pre-release spoiler discussion thread stipulated that certain things be tagged, so Ive been waiting for someone to make a thread like this where we can discuss this mystifying story without black bars everywhere.

so FAIR WARNING: it's best not to venture in until you've completed the game!

Good insight here

Neiteio said:
I'm only halfway through the game, but I've been reading up on lore across the web. Here's my partial understanding:

Yharnam is a city that was founded on the tombs of elder gods. It is ruled by the Healing Church, which practices the ministration of blood, healing the ill and mending the wounded with the transfusion of blessed blood. Blood is everything in Yharnam. The people there even drink it recreationally, which has given them an unsavory reputation with the rest of the civilized world. Yet people still come there seeking cures for their ailments.

The academy at Byrgenwerth was meant to study the tombs of the elder gods, called the Great Ones. The Healing Church found a medium there, who they used to establish contact with the Great Ones. They otherwise remain hidden to the eyes of men. It would seem that Rom, the Vacuous Spider, was the Great One that maintained this veil. Once he is destroyed, in his pocket dimension beneath the lake, the veil is lifted and the Great Ones can now be seen (such as the Lesser Amygdala clinging to the church walls).

The Healing Church worshipped the Great Ones, and so did occultists such as the witches of Hemwick and the woman in the clinic, but the Great Ones were merely using them to propagate their species, which requires a human female as a surrogate mother. And this is just my theory, but I wonder if the Moon Presence -- the supreme Great One -- brought about the Plague of Beasts so that men would organize the Hunt, which would help the Great Ones discover a hunter strong enough to serve as a vessel for the spawn of the Moon Presence. An NPC in the game (I can't remember who) asks you to question what purpose the hunt really serves.

Also, the Plague of Beasts — something the ministration of blood could not counter -- was probably the point at which the Healing Church realized the folly of its ways and sealed off Byrgenwerth, as well as the rest of the Forbidden Woods.

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...

Okay so here's what I gathered and what I'm missing.

The people in Yharnam possesses special blood, and they are being watched/protected/used by the Great Ones, of which during Bloodborne there are five. They are not immortal however as Oedon was a great one and it's also unclear where their origins come from. You have the spider/squid Amygdala, the Octopus/bat, the Alien, the death angel and the spider, Rom. They are also in different factions, or so it would appear, as in the Tomb of Oedon you find a note that shows someone being frustrated that Rom is hiding secrets from them. I think that note may have been written by Willem.

During the night, people in Yharnam retreat to their homes. Not everyone transforms into a beast—it's clear that the townspeople are used to their being hunts, and none will open their door for you. Exactly what is being hunted though? Just beasts?

According to the Doll, your spirit is sickly and hunting beasts helps to heal you.

What is Paleblood? Is it blood from Yharnam, the woman?

Is the Moon Presence the first Great One, or is it a higher being? Is it killing the Moon Presence that allows you to be birthed by the moon as a new Great One (confirmed through trophy descriptions that is what happens)?

I wanted to keep typing all the other things I noticed but my brain is already wracked trying to piece it together.

Any ideas?
 
M

MattyG

Banned
Are we going to make this our lore discussion thread? I was just about to make one dedicated to discussing a chronicling the lore of the game with a fancy OP keeping track of everything, but if we want to do it here that's fine.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
MattyG said:
Are we going to make this our lore discussion thread? I was just about to make one dedicated to discussing a chronicling the lore of the game with a fancy OP keeping track of everything, but if we want to do it here that's fine.
Click to expand...

I can update the OP Or you can make your own. But first tell us what you know'
 
M

MattyG

Banned
OddMorsel said:
I can update the OP Or you can make your own. But first tell us what you know'
Click to expand...
I could make it in the community section like the DS2 lore discussion one.

As for what I know... not a whole lot. I'm still mulling things over, so there's not much I'm certain of right now. I think most of the stuff you posted in the OP is pretty close. I'm curious what makes you say that the people of Yharnam have "special blood".

The one thing I think you briefly touched on but didn't expand upon is the true ending and the hunter's "rebirth" as a Great One. It seems that there may be a kind of cycle going on where one great one is removed from power and the person who caused it to happen takes their place. Could all the other great ones be past hunters as well?
 
A

AngryMoth

Member
Questions I have:

- Who is the guy in the opening. Looks kinda like Gerhman but different voice right?
- What is the deal with all this dreaming and the nightmare. Why does "slaying the nightmare" cause the end of the night. Like how come the nightmare is affecting the real world
- Who is the bloody bride and what happened to her
- Whats the deal with the baby
- What is pale blood and why are we seeking it

The story seems really weird but I kinda liked it even though I didn't understand much of it

Also, how the hell do you pronounce Phtumeria
 
M

MattyG

Banned
AngryMoth said:
Questions I have:

- Who is the guy in the opening. Looks kinda like Gerhman but different voice right?
- What is the deal with all this dreaming and the nightmare
- Who is the bloody bride and what happened to her
- Whats the deal with the baby
- What is pale blood and why are we seeking it
Click to expand...
I believe the "bride" is Yharnam, presumably the namesake of the city.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
The reason I think people in Yharnam have special blood is because what binds you to your contract at the start is an injection of "Yharnam blood." But I think it might be a reference to the woman, Yharnam, and not the town.

My suspicion was that Yharnam, the woman, was perhaps the first mother of a Great One. The Holy Church discovered a "holy medium" in the tombs, according to Alfred. I think they perhaps used that medium to make contact with the moon, and then pimped out the woman to birth a child from the moon presence, and that child was the first Great One.

God I have no fucking clue, do I?
 
J

JimPanzer

Member
A theory I came up with, which I can't really back up with lore evidence:

So the healing curch messed up and summoned aliens, to counter that alien invasion they used special blood which would grant someone infused by it special power, but also brought the beast disease onto the earth. No idea what happened then.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
I was actually kind of surprised at the turn the story took. I enjoyed it though.

As for my contribution? I got nothing. I did feel bad about killing the guy who helps you out near the first lamp in central Yarhnam.
 
M

Marcel

Member
JimPanzer said:
A theory I came up with, which I can't really back up with lore evidence:

So the healing curch messed up and summoned aliens, to counter that alien invasion they used special blood which would grant someone infused by it special power, but also brought the beast disease onto the earth. No idea what happened then.
Click to expand...

It's clear they didn't "mess up". It's obvious that the church was willingly communing with or worshipping the cosmic beings at the expense of the people.
 
A

AngryMoth

Member
koshunter said:
I was actually kind of surprised at the turn the story took. I enjoyed it though.

As for my contribution? I got nothing. I did feel bad about killing the guy who helps you out near the first lamp in central Yarhnam.
Click to expand...
Oh shit so that's who that was, wow can't believe I didn't put that together!

Edit: sorry for the double post
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I am buying into the theory that the guy was a physicist who went crazy over losing his wife and kid. The whole game is him coping with it through nightmares and such.

Lots of crazy pregnancies in this story, umbilical cords, unborn ones. I almost want to say his wife had a miscarriage and died from it.


In the "bad" ending, Gerhman kills you but you "awaken" in the real world with the Doll saying something like "may you find peace in the waking world".


COME AT ME GAF!
 
P

Primethius

Banned
AngryMoth said:
Oh shit so that's who that was, wow can't believe I didn't put that together!

Edit: sorry for the double post
Click to expand...
Yea, I was like woah why you attacking me. Then I noticed the broken window.

For some reason I thought whatever it was that was effecting the outside people wouldn't effect those inside (in regards to houses). But he was an outsider too, so maybe that's why?
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Pure speculation, 100% bullshit (probably).

Everyone is dying or dead from a plague after an experiment goes wrong (or it may be intentional). The entire game is played out in the dream of a hunter. The old man in the hat, who is never seen from again, says as much.

There is only one true ending - that of you deciding to wake up. Killing Gherman just extends the dream. Killing the moon presence is simply a desire for power.
 
M

Marcel

Member
I'll drop my speculative tidbits from the other thread.

Am I reading too deeply to think that the Great Ones and Old One are connected? I mention it because of "Fear the Old Blood", the Lovecraftian connections of ancient god-creatures transcending dreams, nightmares, dimensions and so on. I don't think it can simply be chalked up to a a coincidence.
Click to expand...

Who your hunter is in this game seems to be sort of circumstantial. You're an outsider looking to get healed by Yharnum technology and blood ministration. The source of the blood possibly being the pregnant vampire queen at the end of the labyrinth dungeons What you find instead is a city infected, (perhaps trapped in a nightmare) and a church who has dealings and pray to cosmic monsters.
Click to expand...

The crying bride is Yharnum, Pthumerian Queen. She seems to be some sort of vampire or monster. It's safe to say she's probably the "source" of blood that was found underneath the church. We know that Yharnum the person is at the very least important (aside from the obvious) because we hear her unborn baby crying throughout the game and she takes residence in the deepest levels of an ancient labyrinth below the church, which led me to believe she was the source of the blood.

The dream and nightmare stuff is definitely more complicated. The Hunter's Dream is a safe place, a refuge created by Gehrman or at the very least administrated by him (item descriptions peg the cosmic beings as being involved with its creation). Meanwhile there's a boss character called Micolash, Host of the Nightmare which would imply his dominion over the hellish place you're in.
Click to expand...
 
J

JimPanzer

Member
Duxxy3 said:
Pure speculation, 100% bullshit (probably).

Everyone is dying or dead from a plague after an experiment goes wrong (or it may be intentional). The entire game is played out in the dream of a hunter. The old man in the hat, who is never seen from again, says as much.

There is only one true ending - that of you deciding to wake up. Killing Gherman just extends the dream. Killing the moon presence is simply a desire for power.
Click to expand...

Thought about that too. Who's the dreaming hunter then? Laurence?
 
N

Neiteio

Member
I'm only halfway through the game, but I've been reading up on lore across the web. Here's my partial understanding:

Yharnam is a city that was founded on the tombs of elder gods. It is ruled by the Healing Church, which practices the ministration of blood, healing the ill and mending the wounded with the transfusion of blessed blood. Blood is everything in Yharnam. The people there even drink it recreationally, which has given them an unsavory reputation with the rest of the civilized world. Yet people still come there seeking cures for their ailments.

The academy at Byrgenwerth was meant to study the tombs of the elder gods, called the Great Ones. The Healing Church found a medium there, who they used to establish contact with the Great Ones. They otherwise remain hidden to the eyes of men. It would seem that Rom, the Vacuous Spider, was the Great One that maintained this veil. Once he is destroyed, in his pocket dimension beneath the lake, the veil is lifted and the Great Ones can now be seen (such as the Lesser Amygdala clinging to the church walls).

The Healing Church worshipped the Great Ones, and so did occultists such as the witches of Hemwick and the woman in the clinic, but the Great Ones were merely using them to propagate their species, which requires a human female as a surrogate mother. And this is just my theory, but I wonder if the Moon Presence -- the supreme Great One -- brought about the Plague of Beasts so that men would organize the Hunt, which would help the Great Ones discover a hunter strong enough to serve as a vessel for the spawn of the Moon Presence. An NPC in the game (I can't remember who) asks you to question what purpose the hunt really serves.

Also, the Plague of Beasts — something the ministration of blood could not counter -- was probably the point at which the Healing Church realized the folly of its ways and sealed off Byrgenwerth, as well as the rest of the Forbidden Woods.

Just some thoughts.
 
K

Ken

Member
"A chalice that breaks a labyrinth seal.

But only a Root Chalice changes the shape of the old labyrinth when used in a ritual.

The old labyrinth was carved out by the Pthumerians, superhuman beings that are said to have unlocked the wisdom of the eldritch Truth."
 
A

aly

Member
The most confusing part for me is the ending when you wake up in the real Yharnam or whatever. Does that imply that the whole thing was some sort of nightmare that the townspeople are stuck in?

Also the entire story of Gascoigne and his family was ridiculously sad. Like I seriously tried my best to safe that girl after slaughtering her dad.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
JimPanzer said:
Thought about that too. Who's the dreaming hunter then? Laurence?
Click to expand...

Just an unnamed hunter. AFAIK we never find out who laurence is.

aly said:
The most confusing part for me is the ending when you wake up in the real Yharnam or whatever. Does that imply that the whole thing was some sort of nightmare that the townspeople are stuck in?

Also the entire story of Gascoigne and his family was ridiculously sad. Like I seriously tried my best to safe that girl after slaughtering her dad.
Click to expand...

It's the waking ending that throws off everything for me.
 
M

Marcel

Member
aly said:
The most confusing part for me is the ending when you wake up in the real Yharnam or whatever. Does that imply that the whole thing was some sort of nightmare that the townspeople are stuck in?
Click to expand...

Much like the classics of cosmic horror, the line between reality, fantasy, and madness in Bloodborne is thin.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Also every NPC that you tried to "save" in the game dies or shares some horrible fate.

Little girl? Nope she's gonna die from depression (or she will die on the way to the Ward).

Ariana? Gives birth to a horrifying creature (a great one presumably)

The clever dude? Transforms into a beast and tries to kill other NPCs.

The old lady? Dies trying to get more sedatives because she is addicted to them and eventually overdoses on them by a grave.


The entire latter half of the game was something out of the post Eclipse arc of Berserk..Red moon, infant monstrosities and all.


This game is all sorts of fucked up... and I love it!
 
J

JimPanzer

Member
Duxxy3 said:
Just an unnamed hunter. AFAIK we never find out who laurence is.



It's the waking ending that throws off everything for me.
Click to expand...

When sleeping, Gehrman mumbles something like Laurence should end it (?), so Gehrman can escape from the hunter's dream. As in: Gehrman himself is trapped inside Laurence's dream, and he can only escape by Laurence waking up.
I definitely have to play through the story again, but having too much fun in chalice dungeons.
 
A

aly

Member
Dahbomb said:
Also every NPC that you tried to "save" in the game dies or shares some horrible fate.

Little girl? Nope she's gonna die from depression (or she will die on the way to the Ward).

Ariana? Gives birth to a horrifying creature (a great one presumably)

The clever dude? Transforms into a beast and tries to kill other NPCs.

The old lady? Dies trying to get more sedatives because she is addicted to them and eventually overdoses on them by a grave.


The entire latter half of the game was something out of the post Eclipse arc of Berserk..Red moon, infant monstrosities and all.


This game is all sorts of fucked up... and I love it!
Click to expand...

My old lady died by the forest guy I think. Wasn't too torn up about it, but yeah felt really bad about everyone else. Also poor Gilbert transformed and you gotta put him down.
 
M

Marcel

Member
Soulflarz said:
Soo....how did Ariana give birth to...that?
Click to expand...

The game implies that Great Ones can choose to have relations with humans if they so desire. "Select" them. Consider this item description.

"Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. The Third Umbilical Cord precipitated the encounter with the pale moon, which beckoned the hunters and conceived the hunter's dream." -Mergo's Wet Nurse
Click to expand...

The concept of creating eldritch children seems important because we also have this:

"This paper-thin silver armor is said to deflect blood of ill-intent, and is what allows the royal guards to capture prey for their beloved Queen, so that one day, she may bear a Child of Blood."
Click to expand...
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Neiteio said:
I'm only halfway through the game, but I've been reading up on lore across the web. Here's my partial understanding:

Yharnam is a city that was founded on the tombs of elder gods. It is ruled by the Healing Church, which practices the ministration of blood, healing the ill and mending the wounded with the transfusion of blessed blood. Blood is everything in Yharnam. The people there even drink it recreationally, which has given them an unsavory reputation with the rest of the civilized world. Yet people still come there seeking cures for their ailments.

The academy at Byrgenwerth was meant to study the tombs of the elder gods, called the Great Ones. The Healing Church found a medium there, who they used to establish contact with the Great Ones. They otherwise remain hidden to the eyes of men. It would seem that Rom, the Vacuous Spider, was the Great One that maintained this veil. Once he is destroyed, in his pocket dimension beneath the lake, the veil is lifted and the Great Ones can now be seen (such as the Lesser Amygdala clinging to the church walls).

The Healing Church worshipped the Great Ones, and so did occultists such as the witches of Hemwick and the woman in the clinic, but the Great Ones were merely using them to propagate their species, which requires a human female as a surrogate mother. And this is just my theory, but I wonder if the Moon Presence -- the supreme Great One -- brought about the Plague of Beasts so that men would organize the Hunt, which would help the Great Ones discover a hunter strong enough to serve as a vessel for the spawn of the Moon Presence. An NPC in the game (I can't remember who) asks you to question what purpose the hunt really serves.

Also, the Plague of Beasts — something the ministration of blood could not counter -- was probably the point at which the Healing Church realized the folly of its ways and sealed off Byrgenwerth, as well as the rest of the Forbidden Woods.

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...

Great stuff!
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Soulflarz said:
Soo....how did Ariana give birth to...that?
Click to expand...
1792af0de2fec22a46169768300d3697.jpg
 
K

Ken

Member
Hm, so why were Amygdala present in Yharnam even before the red moon stuff? I thought the red moon basically signified the entrance of aliens into the human plane but Amygdala were always there.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Ken said:
Hm, so why were Amygdala present in Yharnam even before the red moon stuff? I thought the red moon mp basically signified the entrance of aliens into the human world.
Click to expand...

No, they're always present you just can't see them. They'll grab you if you come to close.
 
M

MattyG

Banned
Neiteio said:
I'm only halfway through the game, but I've been reading up on lore across the web. Here's my partial understanding:

Yharnam is a city that was founded on the tombs of elder gods. It is ruled by the Healing Church, which practices the ministration of blood, healing the ill and mending the wounded with the transfusion of blessed blood. Blood is everything in Yharnam. The people there even drink it recreationally, which has given them an unsavory reputation with the rest of the civilized world. Yet people still come there seeking cures for their ailments.

The academy at Byrgenwerth was meant to study the tombs of the elder gods, called the Great Ones. The Healing Church found a medium there, who they used to establish contact with the Great Ones. They otherwise remain hidden to the eyes of men. It would seem that Rom, the Vacuous Spider, was the Great One that maintained this veil. Once he is destroyed, in his pocket dimension beneath the lake, the veil is lifted and the Great Ones can now be seen (such as the Lesser Amygdala clinging to the church walls).

The Healing Church worshipped the Great Ones, and so did occultists such as the witches of Hemwick and the woman in the clinic, but the Great Ones were merely using them to propagate their species, which requires a human female as a surrogate mother. And this is just my theory, but I wonder if the Moon Presence -- the supreme Great One -- brought about the Plague of Beasts so that men would organize the Hunt, which would help the Great Ones discover a hunter strong enough to serve as a vessel for the spawn of the Moon Presence. An NPC in the game (I can't remember who) asks you to question what purpose the hunt really serves.

Also, the Plague of Beasts — something the ministration of blood could not counter -- was probably the point at which the Healing Church realized the folly of its ways and sealed off Byrgenwerth, as well as the rest of the Forbidden Woods.

Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...
Oh my god.

This just blew my mind. How did I not pick up on that.
 
A

aly

Member
Ken said:
Hm, so why were Amygdala present in Yharnam even before the red moon stuff? I thought the red moon basically signified the entrance of aliens into the human plane but Amygdala were always there.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Someone said if you have high enough insight that you can see them before the red moon stuff. No idea if that's true, but I do love the way insight ties into the story.
 
K

Ken

Member
OddMorsel said:
No, they're always present you just can't see them. They'll grab you if you come to close.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that they can grab you means that they already exist in the human world. Idk, I thought the red moon signified the entrance of aliens, Amygdala included, going by their hostile takeover of Yahar'gul.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Ken said:
Hm, so why were Amygdala present in Yharnam even before the red moon stuff? I thought the red moon basically signified the entrance of aliens into the human plane but Amygdala were always there.
Click to expand...
It's like the Eclipse in Berserk...

They were always present but existed on a different plane and when the barrier shattered after killing Rom you could see them as clear as day.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Ken said:
Hm, so why were Amygdala present in Yharnam even before the red moon stuff? I thought the red moon mp basically signified the entrance of aliens into the human world.
Click to expand...
The Great Ones were always present. Like I said in my previous post, I think Rom the Vacuous Spider was the Great One who maintained a veil that concealed their rituals from the eyes of men (as per notes found in the game). In other words, people couldn't see the Great Ones since Rom kept them hidden. Likewise with the red moon, which seems to embody the supreme Great One, Moon Presence. But the Great Ones were there, propagating their species by impregnating women. And as I speculate, perhaps they brought about the Plague of Beasts so that men would organize the Hunt and they could find a warrior strong enough to be a vessel for the Moon Presence.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Just as an off-note, my experience with the game regarding insight/story progression was so interesting.

I got to the point where Amygdala were present in Yharnam that you couldn't see the entire time. That was also the point in which I acquired enough insight for some of the monsters to change visually. In particular, the enemies near the Cathedral Ward with lamps who now had eyes. I was so blown away at all the stuff that I couldn't see before that I could now post-Rom.

Then I realized it was related to Insight and I remain confused about Insight and its purpose.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Wait, when does the game say that killing Rom breaks a contract?

aly said:
Yeah. Someone said if you have high enough insight that you can see them before the red moon stuff. No idea if that's true, but I do love the way insight ties into the story.
Click to expand...
I can confirm this. Around 40 insight I could see the one on the side of the Ward building. This was after boss 5 or so, faaar before Rom. I actually didn't fight Rom until I had 90 insight.
 
K

Ken

Member
Dahbomb said:
It's like the Eclipse in Berserk...

They were always present but existed on a different plane and when the barrier shattered after killing Rom you could see them as clear as day.
Click to expand...

I don't read Berserk. Give it to me in slice of life manga terms.
 
M

Marcel

Member
koshunter said:
Just as an off-note, my experience with the game regarding insight/story progression was so interesting.

I got to the point where Amygdala were present in Yharnam that you couldn't see the entire time. That was also the point in which I acquired enough insight for some of the monsters to change visually. In particular, the enemies near the Cathedral Ward with lamps who now had eyes. I was so blown away at all the stuff that I couldn't see before that I could now post-Rom.

Then I realized it was related to Insight and I remain confused about Insight and its purpose.
Click to expand...

Insight in the story seems to be opening your mind to the extent of horrible, cosmic horrors. Hence, "Madman's Knowledge".
 
V

Visceir

Member
aly said:
The most confusing part for me is the ending when you wake up in the real Yharnam or whatever. Does that imply that the whole thing was some sort of nightmare that the townspeople are stuck in?

Also the entire story of Gascoigne and his family was ridiculously sad. Like I seriously tried my best to safe that girl after slaughtering her dad.
Click to expand...

Even in the ending where you wake up the "dream" remains -- you still see the doll kneeling at your tombstone. I think It was gratly inspired by H. P. Lovecraft's Dream Cycle -- "The Dreamlands," a vast, alternate dimension that can be entered via dreams.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nintendo Switch 2 Discussion Thread
2 3
146
9K
Celcius replied
All the legacy Activision games that could come to Xbox BC
2 3
137
8K
intbal replied
What do you think the PS5 Pro "launch games" be? What would you want?
2
54
951
Elios83 replied
Aria: Story Untold Releases in Fall 2024 | Xbox Direct 2024
News
3
680
Laptop1991 replied
  • Locked
Metaphor: ReFantazio Details Story, World, Tribes, Characters, English Screenshots
Hype
2
517
Fake replied
Top Bottom