• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Super Mario All-Stars Is A Truly Horrible Remake

HUELEN10

Member
When it come to port and remasters in this day and age, most of us tend to care that they are done right. No one would think well of a remaster of a 6th gen game that runs at a worse framerate than it did originally, or cross-gen game that has the 7th gen version looking better than the 8th gen version, or a classic 2d game getting a re-imagining in an artstyle that is simply not representative of the original title. Shitty ports and remakes like Sonic The Hedgehog Genesis for GBA, Dead Rising Chop Til You Drop, and the PS3 Version of the Zone Of The Enders collection all get the hate they deserve, because they tarnish what was once great.

However, there is one game, one very import game, that got absolutely bastardized with its remake, and very few, if any, voiced the criticisms that shitty port deserves. This game, or more specifically, games, are Super Mario Bros, and Super Mario Bros 2 (J). Now, am I talking about SMB DX? Of course not; despite workspace constraints due to resolutions, it was an amazing effort and filled with love. No, what I'm talking about is this piece of shit.

http://youtu.be/30Mr7q-v-64

That's right, I am talking about the Super Mario All-Stars Version Of Super Mario Bros (and it's at-the-time Japan-only sequel). Holy shit, they really fucked up this one! Though some of you can see what makes it shit, you really have to feel it to see how bad it is. For those of you not hooked on the plumbers, these 2 games are all about 2 things: speed, and flow. For those not in the know, a skilled player will be able to start running, and jump and duck through a level with seamless flow, even when dealing with enemies, picking up powerups, and hitting blocks. Mario and blocks go together like pet iguanas and salmonella; they are inseparable. Yet for some reason or another, this mostly tasteful port (with some questionable choices such as the colors of the outfit and pink bloopers) has its physics completely fucked with.

In the original game and every port and remake besides this one, when Mario hits a block, he bounces back quickly with no loss of momentum. Not so here! In this shitty game, Mario is sucked up for a split-second, and goes straight up, and goes right back down, straight down; this tiny physics change, literally ruins the entire flow and balance of the game, making it a completely lesser and different experience. Instead of a seamless flow of gaming action, you constantly stop, and start, and stop, and start.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if this game were released today, it would be looked at a lot more critically and deservingly. For the non-Mario diehards here, the changes in this game and the original are kind of like a classic Sonic game that forces you to stop after hitting a monitor and then keep on going, or a Doom game that forces you to stand still while shooting; it is that bad. Why did this port get a pass? Did people not care about core gameplay mechanics as much back then, or was it overlooked? The reason I bring this up is because over the years, I noticed that a lot of people grew up with a SNES and not an NES, and I've also noticed that people past that generation experienced classic Mario by just downloading the pirated "pretty all-in-one version" that is a Super Mario AllStars+World ROM, so many, many people have truly never played SMB and SMB 2 (J) the way they were meant to be played. It's quite sad if you think of it, that this happened to one of the greatest games of all time.

With Mario Maker videos coming out more and more often, harkening back to the RIGHT physics for each look, perhaps the generation that got wrongly showcased SMB will finally know what it feels like to play the series proper, feeling as it should. What was your first SMB experience. After realizing the changes between SMB and SMASSMB, could you ever go back? Do you think this is one of the reason NIntendo seems to have been more careful about ports and remakes since then?
 
Thought this was going to be about All-Stars as a whole. It's versions of SMB2/SMB3 are those games for me.

Haven't played the ones you're talking about in some time so I can't speak much about the.
 

Dishwalla

Banned
I agree with SMB 1 and Lost Levels, never liked the physics of the remade versions. The remakes of SMB 2 USA and SMB 3 are fine though.
 
I read somewhere this is just a really dumb bug unintended by inverting the Y value ( a + instead of a -) of mario's momentum vector after hitting a block
 
I've really only played the remade smb2 and 3 (in addition to the nes games), but only the nes versions of smb and lost levels. I guess I'm kind of glad to have gotten rid of my snes version instead of the nes games.
 

Theorymon

Member
I still think the All Stars Versions of SMB1 and Lost Levels are passable, but yeah, the physics changes make me stick to the NES one, as I find that these two Mario games are more about maintaining a "rhythm" than the others, an the All Stars version really screws that up!

Also, the All Stars version of Lost Levels is a lot easier: It adds 1-ups and lets you continue from the start of a level when you get a game over instead of the entire world. It makes Lost Levels a LOT easier, which is either a great thing or a bad thing depending on the player (I personally am not fond of the change, I like the pressure the original Lost Levels puts on the player).

The All Star version of Lost Levels does make gettng to Worlds A, B, C, and D much more reasonable though: You just have to beat the game without using warps, instead of beating the game 9 times!
 
Last time I played SMB1 was at a bar(?) after about 5 beers.

Last time I played SMB1 all-stars was...1994-1995?

Maybe I just never really cared for the game.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
This is where it's at:

RATYgwh.jpg


even with the scrolling screen problem, this is still the best port of SMB (+2) ever.
 

Griss

Member
Yeah but if the physics issue was solved the rest of it would be pretty great. Loses the iconic feeling of the original sprites, but it's interesting to see what some of the levels were actually supposed to be. (I never, EVER imagined that world 1-2 was a cave when I was a child with SMB on the NES. I thought it was some kind of underground block building.)
 
I remember playing All-Stars as a child and being disappointed because the music and sound had been changed. Given, it was on SNES, but I was expecting NES sounds to come from the TV screen. Then again, I was a kid.
 

Theorymon

Member
This is where it's at:

RATYgwh.jpg


even with the scrolling screen problem, this is still the best port of SMB (+2) ever.

Man I love SMBDX. Challenge Mode was pretty awesome, it made me play the classic Mario stages in a pretty different way! Boo mode was fun too.

Just a note though: Lost Levels in SMBDX was pretty different. It used SMB's physics (so getting a boost from jumping on enemies was minimized, and there's no wind), and Worlds 9, A, B, C, and D aren't in. It's still pretty cool though, its like a bizzaro version of Lost Levels in a way.
 

Cody_D165

Banned
single-handedly brought all three classic Marios to the 16-bit SNES and brought one to us we'd never played in the States before on one single cartridge

and you're calling it shit

get your nitpicking outta here

now the Wii version was shit, just the SNES ROM on a disc lolol
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Man I love SMBDX. Challenge Mode was pretty awesome, it made me play the classic Mario stages in a pretty different way! Boo mode was fun too.

Just a note though: Lost Levels in SMBDX was pretty different. It used SMB's physics (so getting a boost from jumping on enemies was minimized, and there's no wind), and Worlds 9, A, B, C, and D aren't in. It's still pretty cool though, its like a bizzaro version of Lost Levels in a way.

It also added the challenge coins. I still think it's a boss game, and probably my favorite mario re-release.
 

javac

Member
This is where it's at:

RATYgwh.jpg


even with the scrolling screen problem, this is still the best port of SMB (+2) ever.

I got this for free from a promotion a while back and I never ended up redeeming the code, and it expired. I'm very dumb :(
 

Krejlooc

Banned
single-handedly brought all three classic Marios to the 16-bit SNES and brought one to us we'd never played in the States before on one single cartridge

and you're calling it shit

get your nitpicking outta here

now the Wii version was shit, just the SNES ROM on a disc lolol

it was also free to anybody who owned a Super NES and had registered theirs. So many people got Mario All-stars in the mail absolutely free.

That's nuts to think about.
 

HUELEN10

Member
single-handedly brought all three classic Marios to the 16-bit SNES and brought one to us we'd never played in the States before on one single cartridge

and you're calling it shit

get your nitpicking outta here

now the Wii version was shit, just the SNES ROM on a disc lolol
It's not nitpicking if it changes the entire feel of the game.
 
This is where it's at:

RATYgwh.jpg


even with the scrolling screen problem, this is still the best port of SMB (+2) ever.

The scrolling screen is a pretty massive issue. It's a cool version of the game and the added content is a lot of fun, but it's definitely not the best port.
 

5taquitos

Member
As a kid that didn't have an NES, but did has an SNES, All-Stars was awesome. At the time, I didn't realize that the ports were shitty. To me, they just seemed like better looking versions.

Plus my cart also had SMW on it, so it felt like the ultimate collection.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
The scrolling screen is a pretty massive issue.

not really. You rarely have any reason to move backwards in Mario, and the NES could only go one screen high. At the middle screen orientation, you can still see the bottom of everything atop the playfield, and the top of everything at the bottom of the playfield.
 
not really. You rarely have any reason to move backwards in Mario, and the NES could only go one screen high. At the middle screen orientation, you can still see the bottom of everything atop the playfield, and the top of everything at the bottom of the playfield.

It's still very playable but you're missing a big part of the experience whenever you play the game. It's rather unfortunate and it's not the best version of the game simply because of this. Mind you, I still enjoyed the game quite a bit and purchased it for my GBC at launch.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Ninja Gaiden Trilogy was a pretty bad remake IIRC

Ninja Gaiden is weird because every "16-bit" port in the series is absolutely awful. Ninja Gaiden Trilogy is the best, actually. But the PC Engine port of Ninja Gaiden 1 has awful scrolling issues, and the Amiga port of Ninja Gaiden 2 is absolutely terrible. It is meant to be played with one button, so pressing the button makes you jump, and to attack you hold the button then press left or right on the stick to attack, and up to use magic.

One of the single worst ports I have ever played on any system. I don't know how anybody could have fun playing it.
 

TreIII

Member
Man I love SMBDX. Challenge Mode was pretty awesome, it made me play the classic Mario stages in a pretty different way! Boo mode was fun too.

Just a note though: Lost Levels in SMBDX was pretty different. It used SMB's physics (so getting a boost from jumping on enemies was minimized, and there's no wind), and Worlds 9, A, B, C, and D aren't in. It's still pretty cool though, its like a bizzaro version of Lost Levels in a way.

Yeah, those missing worlds were the main thing that detracted from my enjoyment, even more so than the resolution, in my opinion.

Still, plenty of fun was had with DX. It honestly spoiled the "Advance" series for me, because they did more to just stuck with the Mario Bros. port ad nauseum as an extra and called it a day for the entire series.
 

Cody_D165

Banned
Ninja Gaiden is weird because every "16-bit" port in the series is absolutely awful. Ninja Gaiden Trilogy is the best, actually. But the PC Engine port of Ninja Gaiden 1 has awful scrolling issues, and the Amiga port of Ninja Gaiden 2 is absolutely terrible. It is meant to be played with one button, so pressing the button makes you jump, and to attack you hold the button then press left or right on the stick to attack, and up to use magic.

One of the single worst ports I have ever played on any system. I don't know how anybody could have fun playing it.

post-31458-Jim-Carrey-disgust-puke-gif-Du-5Lr8.gif
 
Agreed on all accounts. If I'm going to play any of the 8-bit Mario games, its going to be the NES versions. There are some truly bizarre coloring and background changes too. Especially in Mario 3.

This is where it's at:

RATYgwh.jpg


even with the scrolling screen problem, this is still the best port of SMB (+2) ever.

Great port(s) despite the resolution issue. It's one of those games where you can tell it was made with lots of love.
 

Dishwalla

Banned
Maybe I'm missing something, but can you actually apply that patch onto a cartridge? How does that work? I have both All Stars and All Stars + Super Mario World in my collection, would be interesting to apply the patch to them.
 

120v

Member
in 1993 All Stars was some hot shit... those were very impressive graphics for the time. seeing 3 of the NES' most beloved games updated was an incredible experience... and for a good value. i was in hog heaven

but today i vastly prefer the NES versions. aside from the physics the NES games' minimalistic style has aged much better, seem like a much better "fit" for those games, and the rastafied OST of All Stars just sounds glaringly out of place. I wouldn't call All-Stars a "travesty", it just aged really poorly and there's really no sense in playing it today.

though i will say SMB2 (US) however is a much better fit for 16-bit, and the All Stars version is probably the definitive one. can't particularly put my finger on why, but it just seems like it was made to be a SNES game
 
It's not nitpicking if it changes the entire feel of the game.

Barely.

The block physics thing is just not that serious, and it doesn't even happen every time, only when you're at the apex of the jump.

SMB Deluxe feels completely different and is really only good for the bonus content/modes.
 

Theorymon

Member
Yeah, those missing worlds were the main thing that detracted from my enjoyment, even more so than the resolution, in my opinion.

Still, plenty of fun was had with DX. It honestly spoiled the "Advance" series for me, because they did more to just stuck with the Mario Bros. port ad nauseum as an extra and called it a day for the entire series.

To be fair, the Advance games did have some extra content, granted most of the time it wasn't really great.(And of course, those horrible voices rofl)

SMA Super Mario Bros 2: This game added the Advance Coins, which are like the ancestor to the Star Coins of today, which is cool This also added some sort of challenge mode where you could collect hidden Yoshi Eggs, and it added Mecha Birdo as a new boss. The reward for the Yoshi Eggs was just a different title screen -_-

SMA2 Super Mario World: Luigi played differently than Mario in this one. Luigi was pretty similar to his Lost Levels self, which I thought was pretty cool. The game also recorded the Dragon Coins you collected (so they were sorta like star coins now), and you needed to get them to activate the weird enemy changes World Special added orginally.

SMA3 Yoshi's Island: The game adds one extra level per world after you beat the game. Pretty interesting, though the rest of the game is inferior to the SNES one graphically and sound wise.

SMA4 Super Mario Bros 3: This one was by far the best because of World e, which added entire new levels, some of which went as far as adding SMB2 mechanics! Unfortunately, it was a pain in the ass to get them: You needed 2 GBAs, a Link Cable, and an e-reader. To make things worse, a lot of the level packs weren't released outside of Japan, and some of them were retailer exclusive -_-. I'm really hoping we get all the world-e stuff via vitrual console some day, some of those levels are really really cool! Maybe I'll even remake some of them in Mario Maker..

Super Mario 64 DS: lol I'm just puting this here since I mentioned all the other remakes. This game has so many changes that it almost feels like a new game to me. Its why I play this when I do my yearly runthrough of all the mainline Mario games.

But yeah, Nintendo really outdid themselves with Super Mario Bros DX compared to most of the other remakes. I hope the next time Mario games are remade, they lean more towards SMBDX's style and less twords the "almost straight ports with some extra bells and whistles" the SMA games were.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Both the PC Engine remake of NG1 and the Amiga remake of NG2 have new art, too. They look good in screenshots but goddamn terrible in motion. The "parallax" in the PC Engine port of NG1 is abysmal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_nZdlr9bU#t=2m35s

it looks like the background is scrolling the wrong way.

This is an authentic copy of Ninja Gaiden running on a PC Engine? I've never heard or seen this parallax scrolling issue.

Edit: Holy cow, it really looks to be that awful! I can't believe how awful the scrolling is. Just goes to show patching isnt always such an evil thing, as not all games shipped without issues!
 
Top Bottom