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"Why Are You So Angry?: A 6-Part Series On Angry Gamers"

B

BUNTING1243

Banned
So Innuendo Studios, the guy responsible for that This Is Phil Fish video a while back, just finished a new series: Why Are You So Angry. It's about the mentality and tactics of Gamergate supporters and Internet Anger Culture in general.

It's a six part series:

Part One: A Short History Of Anita Sarkissian
Part Two: Angry Jack
Part Three: Perception Is Everything
Part Four: An Autopsy of Gamergate
Part Five: "The Good Guy"
Part Six: Talking To Angry Jack
Post Release Blog Post: Talking To Jack, It Turns Out, Is Complicated

I think it's a really great series that deserves more attention. It definitely made me think more about why people on the Internet get so intensely defensive and angry about things that seem relatively minor, and it's also one of the best examinations of the Sarkessian backlash and Gamergate that I've seen. As someone who was definitely at one point young and angry and wanted to be understood by everyone, the Angry Jack character seems pretty on-point.
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
I've been waiting for something like this. Any time I've read something from/about GG, it was so gross I couldn't stand to try to understand
 
V

Vilix

Unconfirmed Member
Gamergate? Nah.

What grinds my gears is the nickle and diming on bullshit that should be free, devs/pubs releasing incomplete games, and patches that cause more harm than good.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
"Angry Jack" being this byproduct of the games industry's sudden heavy marketing shift towards teenage and adolescent boys in the 90's feels very on point. Having been a regular participant on internet communities since 1999, that's pretty much the stereotype of the average "gamer" participating on forums and such which I have built up in my head over the years, and on numerous occasions I do feel this undercurrent of them basically laying claim to gaming culture as a whole being for them. It's a very off-putting feeling, and would certainly explain a lot of the hostile attitudes as the industry keeps growing and encapsulating wider demographics.
 
W

Weltall Zero

Member
I just watched the second one (Angry Jack) and it was so on-point. I don't drink and it really seems to bother people, even if I make no judgement at all about them. Being an atheist and environmentalist is not so unusual in Europe so fortunately I do get less weird looks from that.

The one thing that gives me complete "are you an alien" looks is the fact that I don't own a mobile phone, which is why I try not to bring it up. :D
 
H

hurricanes

Member
Weltall Zero said:
I just watched the second one (Angry Jack) and it was so on-point. I don't drink and it really seems to bother people, even if I make no judgement at all about them. Being an atheist and environmentalist is not so unusual in Europe so fortunately I do get less weird looks from that.

The one thing that gives me complete "are you an alien" looks is the fact that I don't own a mobile phone, which is why I try not to bring it up. :D
Click to expand...

What?! You are an alien. /jk
I didn't own an actual cell until like 3 years ago. And I don't drink. Thankfully people around me are more understandable than "angry Jack". Probably because I am good at shutting the door on those kinds of people.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I kinda need to watch this
 
stuminus3

stuminus3

Banned
The older I get the more I'm coming to realise that most of the noise comes from disillusioned young people with nothing better to lash out on (just as it was back in my day, really)... but I really liked that Phil Fish video so I've tagged this to watch later.
 
B

Banana Stand

Neo Member
Really amazing videos, especially the Gamergate one. It is still baffling that it even happened. I'm not sure how all the Angry Jacks were so stupid or deluded to think that video games journalism needed to have the same ethical requirements as actual journalism, where human lives are at stake.
 
H

HueyFreeman

Banned
The sociology of the angry young male is a much larger discussion than just in the video game sphere - it just happens to find a frequent home there.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
These videos are incredibly important. Much of Gamergate talk is muddled in an accusatory overlays. What this series achieves beyond others is maintaining a sense of understanding without judgement on 'angry jack' while also condemning his actions. We can feel empathy for Angry Jack because we were all Angry Jack at one point. Having to question the righteousness of even our small actions is not a pleasant feeling. But it must be done, and those who resist doing so ultimately not just do damage to the community, but themselves.

It is unacceptable to tolerate angry jacks, but we don't have to hate them. We don't have to become them, lacking in understanding of other human beings to the point where we spew vitriol. We just have to reject the bigotry and hatred they try to bring into our discussions. The rest will take care of itself. They can either get with the program and realize that acceptance for other people is a net good for everyone, or they can hide in their ever shrinking holes. That's the difference between them and us. We can understand people, even when we disagree with them. And that's actually our strength. We can understand Angry Jack. Angry Jack can't understand themselves, let alone others.
 
Nydius

Nydius

Member
This is a very good series. The Gamergate part is very much on point. I had lots of people asking me to join with then in the Gamergate movement because I have ranted quite openly about the state of journalism and the increasing cohabitation of marketing and journalism. I saw through the "it's about ethics" bullshit from the start.

If people want to have a discussion about ethics in journalism, great! But that discussion must be a discussion about journalism as a whole not just a very specific subset of journalism. By picking a subset and ignoring actual, honest examples of questionable journalistic ethics outside of gaming showed it was little more than a smokescreen to cover a different premise.
 
Y

Yogg

Member
I really like the format and the effort put in those videos, but I feel it's a little too black & white about the subjects addressed. Those videos paint straight-up rights and wrongs, and are very engaged on who's right and who's wrong. You have the typical bad guy and the typical victim.

But I feel it's not that simple. When you ignore the very vocal and aggressive minorities (both ways), the rest is much more nuanced than straight up good/evil. Basically, I think lodging everybody in a clearly labeled drawer is too easy of a way out of the subject.

I don't care one bit about the gamergate debacle, and I don't want to fuel that subject, btw.
 
T

tzhu07

Banned
usf4-angry-poongko-topless-with-smug.jpg
 
B

benicillin

Banned
Yogg said:
I really like the format and the effort put in those videos, but I feel it's a little too black & white about the subjects addressed. Those videos paint straight-up rights and wrongs, and are very engaged on who's right and who's wrong. You have the typical bad guy and the typical victim.

But I feel it's not that simple. When you ignore the very vocal and aggressive minorities (both ways), the rest is much more nuanced than straight up good/evil. Basically, I think lodging everybody in a clearly labeled drawer is too easy of a way out of the subject.

I don't care one bit about the gamergate debacle, and I don't want to fuel that subject, btw.
Click to expand...

On the contrary I think that this video series goes out of the way to make things less "black and white" than they would initially appear to be, but if you ask me there are very clearly drawn lines between what is right and what is wrong that aren't really up for debate.

It's also important to read his follow up to the final video because he expands on a few points and adds some additional things in a post called Talking to Jack, it turns out, is complicated.
 
R

Reebot

Member
I read the transcripts since I can't watch the video right now.

Interesting stuff. The author loses his way a bit when he slips into the more juvenile, comically insulting prose, and it hurts his work. It's easy to take this route which amounts, at times, to nothing more than pandering to the choir. But it's overall well worth a read.

A step above most internet blogs that, if nothing else, further highlights a widespread social problem.
 
S

shandy706

Member
I've never been an angry person for any silly reason....as a gamer, as a teen, as an adult, etc.

I DON'T get people that get angry at games.

Edit** Left a very important word out there..derp.
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
lazygecko said:
"Angry Jack" being this byproduct of the games industry's sudden heavy marketing shift towards teenage and adolescent boys in the 90's feels very on point. Having been a regular participant on internet communities since 1999, that's pretty much the stereotype of the average "gamer" participating on forums and such which I have built up in my head over the years, and on numerous occasions I do feel this undercurrent of them basically laying claim to gaming culture as a whole being for them. It's a very off-putting feeling, and would certainly explain a lot of the hostile attitudes as the industry keeps growing and encapsulating wider demographics.
Click to expand...

The shift was not so sudden. A lot of kids started playing games in the late 1980s because of the NES. By the mid-to-late 1990s, they were teenagers.

It's just that things haven't really changed since...
 
J

Jumplion

Member
I saw the videos as they were coming out, it's a great analysis on several different fronts of the shittiness that's been going on for years now. I've been saying these things in one form or another over the years, but this series does a great job of compiling all that into nicely edited, nicely flowing format with great analysis to boot.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Verelios said:
Wait, what?
Click to expand...

DERP, massive typo/missed word there "I DON'T get"...is what it should say.

lol

Seriously though these videos go into things well beyond that. Neat to watch, although equating playing a game that may have, even unintentional, sexism in some form....to buying products made in sweat shops...ehhh, not sure if equal or not...ehhhh...
 
L

lazygecko

Member
diffusionx said:
The shift was not so sudden. A lot of kids started playing games in the late 1980s because of the NES. By the mid-to-late 1990s, they were teenagers.

It's just that things haven't really changed since...
Click to expand...

The main marketing zeitgeist in the 1980's was to portray games as toys for children. It was Sega who started to market towards an older demographic during the decade shift. Sony carried the torch after them and this is where the marketing really implicitly started portraying gaming as a strictly male lifestyle (I haven't seen it, but apparently there was a PS1 ad with game characters urging a guy to not let himself get "whipped" by his girlfriend). Nintendo also had a brief stint in the mid 90's with their "play it loud" campaign.
 
PAULINK

PAULINK

I microwave steaks.
The vendetta that people have against anita is pretty baffling, will be good to see what all the hubbub is about
 
M

mullet2000

Member
I just watched all six videos this morning. Thought it was a really good analysis.

I think the take home point at the end that we should avoid getting into screaming matches with "Angry Jacks" on the internet and make calmer, more rational/logical replies and comments to those types of people is really important. I know it's hard at times, but ive seen way, way too many insulting screaming matches start due to an Angry Jack making an iffy comment or two. As he says in the video, you probably aren't going to change that individual person's mind, but the way that you act in this situations can and absolutely does effect how bystanders and other readers look at the topic or "debate" as a whole.
 
G

Glendemonium

Member
This will make for a good watch when I get home.

As for the comments, they're good for a larf. I'll say this, Angry Jack actually reminds me of an old former friend of mine, snarl and everything.
 
L

Litany

Neo Member
I thought these were great videos. I remember speaking to a colleague about gamergate, and him talking about Anita Sarkeesian and the terrible lies she allegedly told about Hitman Blood Money, which is easily one of my favorite games of all time. He didn't seem to be able to parse that I'm a huge fan of the game but wasn't offended at all by her calling it out for sexism.

Why am I not offended when he is? It's not because he's a terrible person, he really isn't. Feeling judged is an unpleasant experience and it's worth exploring what's going on here. This series does a great job of addressing the emotional undercurrent of the backlash we've seen over the past year.
 
stuminus3

stuminus3

Banned
OT GAF should probably skip the "prominent athiests can be assholes" part in the second video. :D

But seriously, interesting stuff so far.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
stuminus3 said:
OT GAF should probably skip the "prominent athiests can be assholes" part in the second video. :D

But seriously, interesting stuff so far.
Click to expand...

I think even a lot of internet atheists are willing to concede types like The Amazing Atheist are obnoxious as shit.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
I only watched the first four parts but don't have the time to finish it at the moment, will do so soon.

I think it's a fantastic series that breaks down the issues around GG and why it went on for as long as it did. The thin veil of "ethics in gaming journalism" surrounded by fostering a "nothing is wrong with gaming communities, don't feel guilty!!!" echo chamber subconsciously got people to side with GG and eventually buy into the BS.
 
M

Molemitts

Member
I watched the fourth part I think? On Gamegate. It's a pretty good explanation of what was going on, and how people became involved in it thinking they were doing something good. Worth watching if you still don't understand what was happening. I'll probably watch the rest soon.
 
K

KodaRuss

Member
I may watch it later but the hate in our industry is really getting old. Death Threats and Swatting executives over video games... We live in crazy times.
 
S

shandy706

Member
KodaRuss said:
I may watch it later but the hate in our industry is really getting old. Death Threats and Swatting executives over video games... We live in crazy times.
Click to expand...

Major jail time needs to be handed out for both.

So childish, self centered, and just completely mind blowing to me. I don't even slightly get it.....not even a little bit. I wouldn't have thought it was OK or a good idea at the age of 7...12...17 or let alone any other point in my life.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
I'm watching these between interviews. I need to start writing my stories, but these are fascinating. I'm on the fourth episode and they're so well-done.
 
M

mentallyinept

Banned
Listened/Watched the whole thing.

Good stuff.

His breakdown of the psychology of "Angry Jack" is the most fascinating part of it for me. I've definitely been that guy before and it sucks in hindsight.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Thank you for the heads up, I loved his Phil Fish video so can't wait to dig into this when I'm home from work and as someone who works in psychology.
 
T

Terrell

Member
Weltall Zero said:
I just watched the second one (Angry Jack) and it was so on-point. I don't drink and it really seems to bother people, even if I make no judgement at all about them. Being an atheist and environmentalist is not so unusual in Europe so fortunately I do get less weird looks from that.

The one thing that gives me complete "are you an alien" looks is the fact that I don't own a mobile phone, which is why I try not to bring it up. :D
Click to expand...

It was the part of the video that spoke the loudest in the whole series to me, because it framed the argument so generally that you saw how what we learned from Gamergate applies to every other discussion and how we can apply the lessons from every other discussion to Gamergate, thus broadening the response to things like it.

Veelk said:
These videos are incredibly important. Much of Gamergate talk is muddled in an accusatory overlays. What this series achieves beyond others is maintaining a sense of understanding without judgement on 'angry jack' while also condemning his actions. We can feel empathy for Angry Jack because we were all Angry Jack at one point. Having to question the righteousness of even our small actions is not a pleasant feeling. But it must be done, and those who resist doing so ultimately not just do damage to the community, but themselves.

It is unacceptable to tolerate angry jacks, but we don't have to hate them. We don't have to become them, lacking in understanding of other human beings to the point where we spew vitriol. We just have to reject the bigotry and hatred they try to bring into our discussions. The rest will take care of itself. They can either get with the program and realize that acceptance for other people is a net good for everyone, or they can hide in their ever shrinking holes. That's the difference between them and us. We can understand people, even when we disagree with them. And that's actually our strength. We can understand Angry Jack. Angry Jack can't understand themselves, let alone others.
Click to expand...

Someone on my Facebook (because I shared this) actually used this as a negative. His post verbatim:

"Here's my takeaway. Angry Jack is a straw man, a projection, a label. It's much more broad and basic a label than most (misogynist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, whatever), and what's better it doesn't require much evidence to behaviour or ideology before slapping it on. All Angry Jack needs to be is a dissenting or dismissive voice. Then he becomes a white, cis, heterosexual male and a neo-nazi puppet, with a persecution complex and dichotomist worldview. Very efficient. Especially with the "we can all be Angry Jack, even I" bit at the end. With that in mind it won't matter if the Angry Jack provides evidence that they don't fit the archetype, since we can all be Angry Jack, he/she is still Angry Jack. They will always be Angry Jack. They just refuse to realise it, the poor fools!

That considered, I am happy to be Angry Jack. The idea amuses me."

Needless to say, I'm planning to unfriend him, because the problems in that statement just run a bit too deeply for my personal taste. Thankfully, I didn't see much of what he had to contribute to a topic in the first place and he largely ignored me, so I lose nothing in that scenario.
 
stuminus3

stuminus3

Banned
Done, very interesting. Far more geared towards the Gamergate discussion that I would have liked on the subject considering "Angry Jack" has been a character for as long as there's been an internet, but I can understand why that's the focus.

In saying that I guess it may be largely because of the whole Gamergate thing that I've become quite depressed at the apparently lack of self aware critical thought people seem to have. It's human nature and he explains why this happens in the video but it's depressing all the same.

I'm wary of some of the discussion on his last video about engaging Angry Jack. Not that we shouldn't do it because we absolutely should, but because more often than not all we end up with is Angry Jack being yelled at by... another Angry Jack. Again it comes back to how sad I am at the lack of empathy, the lack of critical self awareness I've seen in the last few months on GAF and on social media. I made fun of OT GAF earlier but I seriously have a hard time taking the sides of certain groups even if I actually agree with them. The "national anthem at sports game" topic over on the OT is a quite disturbing example of what I mean.

I absolutely do agree with him that I have been Angry Jack in my life, and I probably will be again. But I'll do what I can to not be.
 
P

PillarEN

Member
Saw this earlier when someone brought it up in the Phil Fish thread and this mini series is really nice. If you just relax and step away from the conflict to view the video without emotion it becomes clear how unnecessary the hate is and also why the hate is (potentially) happening. Hopefully for some people who still fly the GG flag they will be more understanding of themselves. Because really it's about looking at yourself and realizing why you may be the "angry Jack". You don't have to be angry Jack and double down. If you switch sides and do away with the anger, it's a positive and not a hypocritical thing. We all make mistakes and hold views that we later regret. It is better to admit that than never making the change if we recognize in our hearts it's the right thing to do.
 
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