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Goreomedy · Oct 3, 2016

Back in late August I was playing Rocket League with a friend. My PlayStation notified me that my Plus service was about to expire in 5 min and I would no longer be able to play the current game.

I immediately went into the store, reupped for a year, and was able to continue playing.

A month later I get my credit card statement. I was double billed. Called support, they explained an automatic charge went through even though I had paid for Plus manually. They refused to credit the charge because it had been longer than 15 days. "But credit card statements can arrive a month af...". "Silence!"

So, I escalate to a supe, get the same story, and just tell them I'll dispute through my credit card. We say our good byes.

I sign into my PlayStation today to find my account banned. Call support. "Oh, yeah, we ban for negative balances if your credit card charges back." "Wait, is that in your terms of service?" "Nope, lol!"

To resolve this, I have to go and purchase PlayStation gift cards. Call customer support back. Scratch off the foil, and read the numbers over the phone. They won't take any other form of payment. Until I do that, my system will remain locked.

It just all seems so.... sketchy.

Anyone in a similar situation find a better resolution?

Greatest Ever · Oct 3, 2016

Sorry to hear OP. Not being rude, is there any way to hear what they actually said to you instead of your sarcastic paraphrasing?

Wowfunhappy · Oct 3, 2016

Pretty sure Sony ALWAYS bans accounts that do chargebacks, regardless of the reason. I'm sure they have PLENTY of CYA stuff in their terms of service that allows this, regardless of what the rep thought.

That said, this is BS.

TimeEffect · Oct 3, 2016

Superior should have told you that your account would get banned since you seem to have stated you were going to dispute with your CC Company.

icespide · Oct 3, 2016

absolutely never do a chargeback for PSN stuff

Goreomedy · Oct 3, 2016

TimeEffect said:
Superior should have told you that your account would get banned since you seem to have stated you were going to dispute with your CC Company.

Yeah, no warning.

jediyoshi · Oct 3, 2016

Greatest Ever said:
Sorry to hear OP. Not being rude, is there any way to hear what they actually said to you instead of your sarcastic paraphrasing?

I highly doubt someone from support explicitly said there weren't consequences for chargebacks.

Captain Zyrain · Oct 3, 2016

Them big city video game companies don't take kindly to that charge-back malarkey.

NewDust · Oct 3, 2016

Goreomedy said:
I sign into my PlayStation today to find my account banned. Call support. "Oh, yeah, we ban for negative balances if your credit card charges back." "Wait, is that in your terms of service?" "Nope, lol!"

It's well known on Gaf that you don't chargeback on Sony, like, ever. Not even when a customer rep says it's safe.

Sucks to be in this situation. Seems you got PS+ a year longer whether you like it or not. (on the plus side, you should have gotten it for the old price 0f $50, not $60.)

Nipo · Oct 3, 2016

Has anyone taken sony to small claims court over this? I imagine it would be pretty easy to get a judgment in your favour and the cost to file is only $10-20 in most jurisdictions.

BigEmil · Oct 3, 2016

If you have a chat log if you chatted with them post them here maybe that will narrow down the problem

Goreomedy · Oct 3, 2016

Greatest Ever said:
Sorry to hear OP. Not being rude, is there any way to hear what they actually said to you instead of your sarcastic paraphrasing?

I don't have a transcript.

They read policy from a script. 15 days was repeated until they were ready to faint.

Greatest Ever · Oct 3, 2016

jediyoshi said:
I highly doubt someone from support explicitly said there weren't consequences for chargebacks.

Totally, I get that, I just wanted to hear the actual language used. Plus, it could be useful for someone who can provide more help than I can.

morpix · Oct 3, 2016

So, OP, would you have stressed out about it if Support said "It's cumulative, so you now just have extra PS+"?

I'm curious. In the same situation I'd be like "Yeah, I got charged twice, but now I have 2 years of PS+, so I guess it's not ideal, but I get the service anyway"?

Rellik · Oct 3, 2016

Number 1 rule with Sony. If you care about your account, NEVER do a chargeback.

Goreomedy · Oct 3, 2016

Nipo said:
Has anyone taken sony to small claims court over this? I imagine it would be pretty easy to get a judgment in your favour and the cost to file is only $10-20 in most jurisdictions.

I don't care about the money. Their policies and behavior being anti consumer is what pisses me off. And the gift cards? For real?

Jezbollah · Oct 3, 2016

The better solution is to buy a PSN membership from a retailer (at times when offers are on) and then enter that code to your account. (and obviously do it before 5 minutes until your account expires)..

5taquitos · Oct 3, 2016

Goreomedy said:
I don't care about the money. Their policies and behavior being anti consumer is what pisses me off. And the gift cards? For real?

They want gift cards because they can't trust you not to do another chargeback.

UncleSporky · Oct 3, 2016

I'm kind of uncomfortable with how so many major companies wield bans as a response for chargebacks. This big monolithic corporation just flat out saying "ok well fuck you too." Come on, aren't you more professional than that?

Nipo · Oct 3, 2016

Goreomedy said:
I don't care about the money. Their policies and behavior being anti consumer is what pisses me off. And the gift cards? For real?

Well, yea. The cost to fight this in small claims court is far greater than you'd get that is the point. IF you only have to do it once you're out a few hours of your time but if sony has to do it a few hundred times it is considerably more annoying.

Even if they have to take the time to have in-house legal move to strike the judgements due to forced arbitration clauses it would still be enough to get their attention.

Goreomedy · Oct 3, 2016

UncleSporky said:
I'm kind of uncomfortable with how so many major companies wield bans as a response for chargebacks. This big monolithic corporation just flat out saying "ok well fuck you too." Come on, aren't you more professional than that?

Yup.

epmode · Oct 3, 2016

Goreomedy said:
I don't care about the money. Their policies and behavior being anti consumer is what pisses me off. And the gift cards? For real?

Sony is *so bad* at this stuff. Even beyond their garbage support, it's crazy that chargebacks nuke your account from orbit. I don't think they're the only company that does it though.

Everyone should take a look at the way Valve handles chargebacks. They'll never, ever ban your account. The worst is that they'll remove your ability to purchase new games until the issue is resolved.

inner-G · Oct 3, 2016

This type of garbage is why I stopped investing in the PS ecosystem

EmiPrime · Oct 3, 2016

Never do chargebacks on transactions made from an account you own unless you never want to do business with that company ever again and don't mind having your account closed. This should be common knowledge and it's not exclusive to Sony. It costs the merchant money and can result in fines if they rack up too many of them.

Professor Beef · Oct 4, 2016

UncleSporky said:
I'm kind of uncomfortable with how so many major companies wield bans as a response for chargebacks. This big monolithic corporation just flat out saying "ok well fuck you too." Come on, aren't you more professional than that?

Probably because it's a better threat for people making a purchase then doing a fraudulent chargeback.

Shpeshal Nick · Oct 4, 2016

Sony needs to get a lot better at dealing with this stuff.

Jacksinthe · Oct 4, 2016

inner-G said:
This type of garbage is why I stopped investing in the PS ecosystem

Same shit with XBL, Steam, etc. Google isn't far to show how shitty of a practice this is

tenderbrew · Oct 4, 2016

Yup - this story checks out to me. Dealing with Sony support has been BY FAR the worst customer service experiences I've had in my entire life. Even worse than Comcast. When I tried to get refunded on purchases made when my account was hacked, the rep was straight up accusing me of lying. Without any pretext. "We know you were at home and made this purchase." Totally did the great customer service thing of just repeating themselves over and over again until you give in or hang up.

After that episode, I cancelled PS+, removed all billing info from my Playstation and decided not to deal with them again unless I really wanted or needed to.

5taquitos · Oct 4, 2016

As a counter story, I have accidentally purchased additional PS+ extensions in the past and have had the purchase refunded on the first try. Like most customer service issues, a lot depends on the rep you get.

Vinegar Joe · Oct 4, 2016

inner-G said:
This type of garbage is why I stopped investing in the PS ecosystem

Why are people acting like this is unique to Sony?

Steam will ban the fuck out of you for a charge back. As will most major companies.

Jebusman · Oct 4, 2016

Chargebacks are the nuclear option. They are the last resort "literally no other option" option.

A chargeback shows either 1 of two things. Either the seller was no longer being cooperative, or the buyer is trying to get away with fraud. From your perspective it's always going to be A, but from the seller's perspective it'll always look like B.

I don't doubt Sony should have been willing to refund you, but at the same time based on your overly sarcastic description of events you didn't really get that far/push that hard before giving up and picking the nuclear option.

No company likes or enjoys dealing with a chargeback, along with the insane fees they end up facing because of it, and by policy it will make them weary of any future business with you.

Even Valve has a standard 9 week account lockdown, where you can't make any purchases/use the marketplace/add funds until either you resolve the chargeback issue, or wait it out. It's not like there's zero reprecussions to doing so.

Essentially, next time this ever comes up, push a little harder on the reps/shop around for a better rep because eventually you will win out, and maybe use some online banking/credit card features if you have them (it's 2016 you really should have them) so you can apparently keep better track of your CC purchases.

EmiPrime · Oct 4, 2016

Collingwood said:
Sony needs to get a lot better at dealing with this stuff.

Go buy a 12 month XBL subscription (or anything really) through MS and then do a chargeback. Just like Sony they will ban your account.

epmode · Oct 4, 2016

Vinegar Joe said:
Why are people acting like this is unique to Sony?

Steam will ban the fuck out of you for a charge back. As will most major companies.

Jacksinthe said:
Same shit with XBL, Steam, etc. Google isn't far to show how shitty of a practice this is

It's not all the same. I mentioned it earlier but Valve hasn't banned Steam accounts for chargebacks in years. The worst they'll do is prevent you from making new purchases until the issue is sorted out. You're always able to download and play your already-purchased games.

Anfang · Oct 4, 2016

Goreomedy said:
A month later I get my credit card statement. I was double billed. Called support, they explained an automatic charge went through even though I had paid for Plus manually. They refused to credit the charge because it had been longer than 15 days. "But credit card statements can arrive a month af...". "Silence!"

Your takeaway from this should be to check your card accounts online regularly.

GametimeUK · Oct 4, 2016

All them people in the thread where the OP wanted discs to become obsolete and for digital downloads to be the only way to purchase games... this is the reason why I don't want it to happen.

Absolutely sucks OP and you shouldn't be treated this way due to Sony and their incompetence. Charge backs are indeed a well known "no go".

NewDust · Oct 4, 2016

Anfang said:
Your takeaway from this should be to check your card accounts online regularly.

The other takeaway should be to always disable automated renewal.

Goreomedy · Oct 4, 2016

Jebusman said:
Chargebacks are the nuclear option. They are the last resort "literally no other option" option.

A chargeback shows either 1 of two things. Either the seller was no longer being cooperative, or the buyer is trying to get away with fraud. From your perspective it's always going to be A, but from the seller's perspective it'll always look like B.

I don't doubt Sony should have been willing to refund you, but at the same time based on your overly sarcastic description of events you didn't really get that far/push that hard before giving up and picking the nuclear option.

No company likes or enjoys dealing with a chargeback, along with the insane fees they end up facing because of it, and by policy it will make them weary of any future business with you.

Oh, it was last resort. I've spoken to 4 different agents with an average call wait time of 35 minutes. How long do you want the thread to be? You get the idea.

Goreomedy · Oct 4, 2016

NewDust said:
The other takeaway should be to always disable automated renewal.

But that's the thing. Even if you've cancelled recurring charges, they automagically switch back if you change primary form of payment. It's in the small print.

Jebusman · Oct 4, 2016

Goreomedy said:
Oh, it was last resort. I've spoken to 4 different agents with an average call wait time of 35 minutes. How long do you want the thread to be? You get the idea.

I mean we weren't going to gleam this from your OP, where it sounded like you spoke to one rep, didn't like the answer, escalated it once then gave up and went nuclear.

If you want people to give you serious answers and/or serious advice, be a little less sarcastic about how they "screwed" you. It kind of helps.

Also, again, your best bet is either complain vocally via social media, or bite the bullet and buy one of those PSN cards. You've already made the chargeback move so there's not much you can undo about it.

It's real shitty but welcome to our digital future.

etta · Oct 4, 2016

icespide said:
absolutely never do a chargeback for PSN stuff

... or any popular digital marketplace.

GoldenCrow · Oct 4, 2016

After reading so many of these stories I'm sure there are some Sony helpline employees that intentionally tell callers to do a charge back to people that are irate and basically giving them a tough time.

inner-G · Oct 4, 2016

Vinegar Joe said:
Why are people acting like this is unique to Sony?

Steam will ban the fuck out of you for a charge back. As will most major companies.

Steam doesn't make you go buy cards to scratch off to get your account back because they double charged you for some backwards-ass subscription service.

NewDust · Oct 4, 2016

Goreomedy said:
But that's the thing. Even if you've cancelled recurring charges, they automagically switch back if you change primary form of payment. It's in the small print.

Really? I knew they switched back when you resub, but this seems really scummy.

And in that case, perhaps it's even better to not have any payment method assigned to PSN. I know that's not a real solution, but you'll never have this happen to you again.

icespide · Oct 4, 2016

GoldenCrow said:
After reading so many of these stories I'm sure there are some Sony helpline employees that intentionally tell callers to do a charge back to people that are irate and basically giving them a tough time.

I doubt that very much

Shpeshal Nick · Oct 4, 2016

EmiPrime said:
Go buy a 12 month XBL subscription (or anything really) through MS and then do a chargeback. Just like Sony they will ban your account.

I didn't realise this thread was about Microsoft. Also, read my post. I'm not saying Sony should ignore a chargeback, I'm saying they should get better at dealing with these situations.

At some point it should be clear to support that they're not dealing with a fraudulent customer and they should support them appropriately.

Ninja Scooter · Oct 4, 2016

I understand their policy, but Sony needs to develop a better system for managing case by case basis instances like the OP.

Lurch666 · Oct 4, 2016

Again what annoys me about this is you lose access to all your digital content even though you have paid for them legitimately.

Even of you get your account locked down because of a chargeback Sony shouldn't be able to take away games you have paid for!

MUnited83 · Oct 4, 2016

Jacksinthe said:
Same shit with XBL, Steam, etc. Google isn't far to show how shitty of a practice this is

Nope, this doesnt happen with Steam. You will never lose access to your library over a chargeback.

KelpPlankton · Oct 4, 2016

You were the one who decided to chargeback and lock yourself out instead of properly talking to Sony and asking them to refund the charge or credit it to you or SOMETHING, instead you immediately went for the chargeback when you met any resistance. Chargebacks are a last resort, not a first one.

This is pretty standard procedure for anyone who gets chargebacked. You did this to yourself, which I'm sure you don't want to hear. But in the future don't chargeback as your first option. That was a dumb move. Always talk to the company first. If they refuse to refund your money then you should look into a chargeback. But be aware that any company, not just Sony, is going to lock you out of an account you chargeback'd on. It's what they always do to keep themselves from being open to repeat financial abuse by malicious users.

MUnited83 · Oct 4, 2016

Vinegar Joe said:
Why are people acting like this is unique to Sony?

Steam will ban the fuck out of you for a charge back. As will most major companies.

Nope, that's a lie.

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