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[Fisty]

We need a stickied thread of console gaming faq: 2016 edition, there are things that are simply not common knowledge that EVERYONE needs to know. Sorry OP, you definitely aren't alone in your mistake though.

Never do charge backs on your account. Honestly if it's something YOU did, it's <$100, and you did receive what you paid for, I would say just take the L. It's not like you won't use the + eventually, unless you were seriously strapped for cash or something.

Another good one I found out, the only way to prove true ownership of your PSN account is to provide them with the serial number of the system you first registered the account on. Hopefully this is different now thanks to 2-step

 

[TheFatMan]

This is pretty standard to be honest.

A chargeback request is essential a notification to end service to whoever your requesting it against. The financial organisation that issued you the card should really be advising you of the potential ramifications of doing such a request.

A chargeback is not a refund request, it is essentially you stating that it's the end of the line and they should only be requested in very specific circumstances. They are designed to be used for example when you've paid a company for goods that then this company has gone out of business before you receive those goods.

Again, it's not a refund request and should never be treated as one. When you make a request against a company you're essentially telling them that you believe they've defaulted on something and that's why you're ending your relationship with them.

Not every company will end their relationship with you when you do a chargeback but the ones that don't are very much in the minority due to the amount of fraud that is committed via chargebacks.

All of this should have been explained to you by your financial institution but the from what people say on here that doesn't often happen, which is a real shame.

I swear to god this should be stickied at the top of the thread and the entire forum. Charge back is not like asking the teller to refund your money for a bad product. Charging back to your card is basically saying that you think Sony tried to screw you and you no longer wish to do any business with them.

NEVER charge back to any company unless you are prepared to no longer do business with them.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Again what annoys me about this is you lose access to all your digital content even though you have paid for them legitimately.

Even of you get your account locked down because of a chargeback Sony shouldn't be able to take away games you have paid for!

Really? The stuff you have downloaded already won't work either? That's Bs

 

[joecanada]

Yeah this needs to be stopped . Where is the reporting on this ?

My xbl account is dead because there was no way to remove my cc from the account. It required me to add a new one. When I phoned the rep said " you must have a valid cc on the account". Which is obviously untrue as little kids have xbl. But I said okay I'm done then . Guess what though surprise! When I started up windows 10 there was my xbl account! I mean they must have evidence that this makes more money than pissing people off otherwise why would they do it .

 

[Mendrox]

Never do chargebacks on transactions made from an account you own unless you never want to do business with that company ever again and don't mind having your account closed. This should be common knowledge and it's not exclusive to Sony. It costs the merchant money and can result in fines if they rack up too many of them.

This. Just because some companies let you take a shit on them doesnt mean that they all do.

Just get the Gift cards and unlock your Account.

 

[Ponn]

We need a stickied thread of console gaming faq: 2016 edition, there are things that are simply not common knowledge that EVERYONE needs to know. Sorry OP, you definitely aren't alone in your mistake though.

Never do charge backs on your account. Honestly if it's something YOU did, it's <$100, and you did receive what you paid for, I would say just take the L. It's not like you won't use the + eventually, unless you were seriously strapped for cash or something.

Another good one I found out, the only way to prove true ownership of your PSN account is to provide them with the serial number of the system you first registered the account on. Hopefully this is different now thanks to 2-step

It doesn't matter really. Same with 2FA the way people were treating it like the holy grail. Lo and behold we still have weekly "MY PS4 WAS HACKED!!!" threads. Nobody that should read these threads to learn the same damn thing recited in every one of these type of threads for years now does. They just wait till it happens to them so they can make their own thread and learn the hard way.

Here's my similar advice from past threads that solves 90% of issues people have with PSN accounts. Stop using credit cards. Only use PSN cards.

 

[Sora the Cat]

Perhaps we should stop naturalizing this behavior from big companies and try to fight them on this kind of BS.

Ofc there will be someone after this saying that it isn't worth the effort and that policies like this won't change, ever. Those are the kind of people who hold us back. Everyone should stop acting like this is OPs ignorance fault ffs, he didn't have to know any of this.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Yeah this needs to be stopped . Where is the reporting on this ?

My xbl account is dead because there was no way to remove my cc from the account. It required me to add a new one. When I phoned the rep said " you must have a valid cc on the account". Which is obviously untrue as little kids have xbl. But I said okay I'm done then . Guess what though surprise! When I started up windows 10 there was my xbl account! I mean they must have evidence that this makes more money than pissing people off otherwise why would they do it .

The shitty service is because of the digital games. What are you gonna do? Take your existing games library elsewhere?

Sometimes when I read these threads I can't believe the stuff these companies are doing are legal

 

[brennok]

I swore I would never support Sony after being fraudulently billed for PlayStation Plus. They told me it was my fault for not disabling auto renew and then kept trying to walk me through how to cancel PlayStation Plus on the PS4.

They kept ignoring the fact I didn't own a PlayStation and I had never owned one. Finally they got it through their heads and canceled the service and refunded my card.

 

[Goreomedy]

The ransom has been handed over via CS chat. Couldn't call, because PSN is down apparently and call volume was too high.

It felt so dirty. She took the codes, told me a case has been opened, and to expect an email in 24-48 hours.

I'm now crying in the shower with a crimson stream coming out the booty.

 

[joecanada]

The shitty service is because of the digital games. What are you gonna do? Take your existing games library elsewhere?

Sometimes when I read these threads I can't believe the stuff these companies are doing are legal

Yeah for sure. But no I actually took my business elsewhere.... But likely to another company probably do the same .

 

[EmiPrime]

I understand the company perspective. If they see a chargeback, they'll instinctively lock the account. I get that. No problem.

But ultimately, these companies have a LOT of records. They see our histories, at some stage, they'd HAVE to see that they're not dealing with a fraudulent customer and support appropriately.

I mentioned Sony because, well, the thread is about a customer and his PlayStation account. I mean, almost every time one of these threads pop up it's about Sony. So clearly, they need to get better at dealing with these situations.

I think Sony probably should have refunded the OP for PS+ renewal, I agree Sony CS could have done better there but the OP is far from blameless. He did get the goods he was charged for and yet he did a chargeback anyway. If he had checked his statements regularly instead of waiting for them to come in the post once a month (come on, we have online for this stuff) he would have caught the mistake. Hell, I get email receipts from Sony even when I download free demos, he would have been immediately notified by email of the auto-renewal and then he could have called up to sort it out well within the 15 days! Why wait a month to take it up with Sony?

 

[Polk]

Yeah for sure. But no I actually took my business elsewhere.... But likely to another company probably do the same .

I think Steam allows you to access all your stuff just not to buy anything anymore.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

The ransom has been handed over via CS chat. Couldn't call, because PSN is down apparently and call volume was too high.

It felt so dirty. She took the codes, told me a case has been opened, and to expect an email in 24-48 hours.

I'm now crying in the shower with a crimson stream coming out the booty.

If TV has taught me anything it's that the hostages are usually killed once the ransom has been paid.

 

[JaseC]

Everyone should take a look at the way Valve handles chargebacks. They'll never, ever ban your account. The worst is that they'll remove your ability to purchase new games until the issue is resolved.

Also, the issue is automatically considered resolved after nine weeks of restricted account functionality (no store purchases/CD key activation/gift activation/trading/Steam Community access) -- you're not required to pay back the money.

OK, that might have been towards the end of Valve's old policy when they completely blocked accounts that started a chargeback. Here's a thread from late 2013 describing the new policy: http://steamcommunity.com/app/2870/discussions/0/630799997170574135/

Valve stopped banning/suspending accounts starting February 2012, so his chargeback occurred in January or earlier still.

 

[TheSeks]

absolutely never do a chargeback for PSN stuff

Or any gaming service. In fact never use a CC on gaming services. Always use gift cards and/or pre-paids.

Also never sub to rental services to play online.

 

[Shredderi]

This is why I've stopped buying digital on Sony platforms. There's no point accumulating a digital library that is potentially undermined by lax security, inflexible policy or incompetent customer service.

I'll buy on disc instead.

Same here. I'm not naive enough to think something like that couldn't happen to my steam library in the future, but a lot of those games has been bought during significant sales. My PS library is all 60e games, and I have made it a point to only buy them physically. I don't trust the digital future, and I dread for a digital only landscape because of things like these. There needs to be some legislation changes regarding digital goods that will adequately protect consumers from this kind of fuckery before I'll be comfortable with it. Right now these companies are all "BANNED FROM EVER USING THE PRODUCTS YOU PAID FOR!" because they can. There will propably be a time where they can't, and I can't wait for that.

 

[Narroo]

To resolve this, I have to go and purchase PlayStation gift cards. Call customer support back. Scratch off the foil, and read the numbers over the phone. They won't take any other form of payment. Until I do that, my system will remain locked.

So, wait: Is it just your PS+ games you can't play, or are you locked out of stuff you actually bought?

 

[Sad Affleck]

Again what annoys me about this is you lose access to all your digital content even though you have paid for them legitimately.

Even of you get your account locked down because of a chargeback Sony shouldn't be able to take away games you have paid for!

Wait, what? Really? How has noone sued yet over this?

NEVER charge back to any company unless you are prepared to no longer do business with them.

Sure thing, but if they want to lock out people they had better refund each piece of content they bought through the store, otherwise they are robbing them blind.

 

[Greddleok]

Wait, what? Really? How has noone sued yet over this?

Noone never got around to suing because it's in the licence agreement when you buy the games.

 

[theindieboy]

From Sony's point of view you got 2 years plus on your account but only payed for one via doing a charge back. Totally agree should have offered a refund for 1 of the sub but to be honest have saved yourself $10. Sony customer support are a real coin flip in my experience, if you get the right person are really helpful otherwise can be a nightmare, have a clear idea of what you want and try and esclate it is the best approach.

 

[Jebusman]

Wait, what? Really? How has noone sued yet over this?

You don't actually own the games. You've never actually owned the game. You are granted a license to play the game. You agree that Sony can revoke access to these licenses at any time for just about any reason when you buy them. No one has ever tried bringing this to court because no one wants to spend the large amount of legal fees to fight over video games.

 

[Shredderi]

Noone never got around to suing because it's in the licence agreement when you buy the games.

Those licence agreements don't actually hold water always in court. Every company would love to make their customers sign away all their rights, but those things aren't automatically enforceable.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Noone never got around to suing because it's in the licence agreement when you buy the games.

The licence agreement can say that I have to let a Sony employee come over to my house and put a finger up my ass every week, that doesn't mean that such a clause can be enforced. There are grounds for a lawsuit if Sony or any other company takes away games that you payed for.

 

[IISANDERII]

Back in late August I was playing Rocket League with a friend. My PlayStation notified me that my Plus service was about to expire in 5 min and I would no longer be able to play the current game.

I immediately went into the store, reupped for a year, and was able to continue playing.

A month later I get my credit card statement. I was double billed. Called support, they explained an automatic charge went through even though I had paid for Plus manually. They refused to credit the charge because it had been longer than 15 days. "But credit card statements can arrive a month af...". "Silence!"

So, I escalate to a supe, get the same story, and just tell them I'll dispute through my credit card. We say our good byes.

I sign into my PlayStation today to find my account banned. Call support. "Oh, yeah, we ban for negative balances if your credit card charges back." "Wait, is that in your terms of service?" "Nope, lol!"

To resolve this, I have to go and purchase PlayStation gift cards. Call customer support back. Scratch off the foil, and read the numbers over the phone. They won't take any other form of payment. Until I do that, my system will remain locked.

It just all seems so.... sketchy.

Anyone in a similar situation find a better resolution?

What if you do a chargeback without incurring a negative balance??

 

[RulkezX]

So the OP forgot to turn off auto renew and then bought an additional year on top ?

Sony has the worst CS by far , even EA have great CS and MS are mostly decent.

Most companies I've dealt with would just have refunded the money with possibly a warning that it was a one off gesture.

Locking you put off content you've already paid for us bullshit as well.

1. Never put your credit card on PSN
2. Never put your credit card on PSN
3. Always use prepaid cards

The Golden rules of PSN

 

[K' Dash]

1. Never put your credit card on PSN
2. Never put your credit card on PSN
3. Always use prepaid cards

 

[dano1]

I would have just kept the extra year of plus. Problem solved.

 

[EmiPrime]

Wait, what? Really? How has noone sued yet over this?



Sure thing, but if they want to lock out people they had better refund each piece of content they bought through the store, otherwise they are robbing them blind.

Welcome to the digital future. If you abuse returns or do a chargeback on an Amazon purchase or anything else to get your Amazon account closed you lose all your Kindle and Audible purchases too (ebooks will still be accessible when banned but not re-downloadable, audiobook purchases supposedly go up in smoke) so it's not exclusive to videogame companies.

Yes it's total bullshit and it's reason enough for me to buy physical games wherever possible!

 

[FirewalkR]

Thankfully never happened to me, but this is a recurring situation.

As far as I'm concerned, this is class action material. And I'm pretty sure Sony's not alone on this.

Still, being Sony... has anyone asked Shuhei Yoshida about this on Twitter?

Edit: Last two transactions I did on PSN "failed" with an error message (network? who knows...) but I didn't retry since I'd read some stuff here on GAF previously about such situations. On both cases, seconds later I received the transaction confirmation via email. If I had retried, though...

 

[RazielCuts]

I don't get that if you were set to auto-renewal why it would pop up an alert saying your PS+ is about to expire? ('In 5 mins,' which is also weirdly exact).

 

[Unreal Champ]

This is why I will not buy another Sony console ever again. The PS3 was the last console I will ever buy from them. If there is a game I really want to play badly on their console, I will either find a friend who has it, buy it and borrow the console from a friend.

 

[ys45]

Not exactly the same problem and sorry if a bit off topic but still related to bad Sony customer services.

I learned a few weeks ago that my IP address has been "banned" from Sony so I can no longer use the PSN store or even login .
I use it only for updates and demo.

So I contacted the chat support and got the awesome service from someone who I think was a machine telling me to contact my ISP they had the information on how to fix my issue.
I did some research and learned that yes I can contact my ISP and get my IP address changed but there is a high chance that my new address will get banned again .

So FY Sony I canceled my PSN + and found a workaround solution anyway .

 

[SmokedMeat]

For someone that brings up the ToS I'm assuming you knew whether your account was setup for automatic renewal?

 

[risq_aus]

I don't see why they couldn't just refund the OP since it was a genuine mistake and they can clearly see what happened on their side.

These kind of blanket approaches to customer service issues just don't work.

 

[flkraven]

I don't see why they couldn't just refund the OP since it was a genuine mistake and they can clearly see what happened on their side.

These kind of blanket approaches to customer service issues just don't work.

Yeah. It's not like he's charging back all of his payment. He is charging back a double payment. Why is he forced to pay double bc of a mistake?

 

[Oneself]

A charge back is not like asking for a refund. Many companies will be cautious afterwards and while it can be frustrating, it's totally understandable from their part to ask for something like a prepaid card to reactivate your account. I'd do it and get over it.

 

[BriareosGAF]

1. Never put your credit card on PSN any service that offers prepaid cards
2. Never put your credit card on PSN any service that offers prepaid cards
3. Always use prepaid cards

Might as well maximize it universally.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Those licence agreements don't actually hold water always in court. Every company would love to make their customers sign away all their rights, but those things aren't automatically enforceable.

They aren't automatically enforceable, but that in no way means that they don't hold water in court.

Several EULA's have been upheld by courts over the years. AFAICT they are treated just like all contracts...an invalid clause doesn't invalidate the whole contract, just the clause.

 

[TRios Zen]

In my opinion a charge back should only be used under rare circumstances. One of those circumstances however IS when you were double billed for a product you were not expecting and the company you are dealing with will not offer a refund for one of those charges.

Said company being Sony sucks, as the one time charge of Plus should be a drop in the bucket compared to the satisfaction of a paying customer. Unfortunately my experience with Sony customer service in the past has been equally bad and it is one of the reasons I have not embraced a digital library on my PS4.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Nope, that's a lie.

Half true

Steam will basically but a hold on your account until you lift the chargeback

They won't instantly ban your account like PSN does, but this practice is common across many other companies in some form or another.

PSN is a mess, don't have your CC on it because of the major consequences of something like this.

 

[Weevilone]

You were the one who decided to chargeback and lock yourself out instead of properly talking to Sony and asking them to refund the charge or credit it to you or SOMETHING, instead you immediately went for the chargeback when you met any resistance. Chargebacks are a last resort, not a first one.

This is pretty standard procedure for anyone who gets chargebacked. You did this to yourself, which I'm sure you don't want to hear. But in the future don't chargeback as your first option. That was a dumb move. Always talk to the company first. If they refuse to refund your money then you should look into a chargeback. But be aware that any company, not just Sony, is going to lock you out of an account you chargeback'd on. It's what they always do to keep themselves from being open to repeat financial abuse by malicious users.

It is 100% absurd to defend Sony on this. He accidentally got double billed for the service, it's not like he bought games and then did a chargeback.. the 15 days is rediculous because many look at their credit card statement monthly and the gold standard for credit card disputes has been 60 days forever. Sony knows this and is using their market dominance to screw people.

Digital is dead in the PS ecosystem until they fix this stuff (to me).

 

[Minions]

So they double bill you, insist on keeping the extra money, and then bully you for taking it back?

I'm so glad I'm not a Sony customer.

No they likely automatically billed him once (auto renewal enabled), and he ordered a PS+ package (a second billing). It just so happened when he renewed after the automatic renewal was going through, thus giving him 2 years of PS+ instead of 1 year of PS+. Its also entirely possible he bought the PS+ package after already being auto-charged for renewal being enabled.

 

[Weevilone]

A charge back is not like asking for a refund. Many companies will be cautious afterwards and while it can be frustrating, it's totally understandable from their part to ask for something like a prepaid card to reactivate your account. I'd do it and get over it.

He asked for a legitimate refund and was denied. It is bullshit for them to hold your past purchases hostage to strong arm customers. My mind is blown at the lengths people will go to blame customers for Sony's faults.

 

[Oneself]

He asked for a legitimate refund and was denied. It is bullshit for them to hold your past purchases hostage to strong arm customers. My mind is blown at the lengths people will go to blame customers for Sony's faults.

After more than 15 days, I didn't have to reach very far TBH. Statements are printed every month but you sure have access, like me, to your online statement updated pretty much every hour.
I'm not saying Sony is right, but they definitely didn't do any worse than any other company would in similar cases. A charge back happened at the end of the day.

Edit: I mean, no matter if it's right or wrong, the 14 days, it's a policy and it's not debatable, it's clearly written a million times in places like: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/.
If you work in customer service you know that there are rules and laws and many times you can't bend or do any exception.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Insane how much victim blaming happens in these threads. Sony's customer service can be really shitty. I haven't had bad experiences with them myself but nuking accounts is such a garbage response, especially when it happens only after customer service has already been contacted and refuses to be helpful.

 

[Tecnniqe]

1. Never put your credit card on PSN
2. Never put your credit card on PSN
3. Always use prepaid cards

Sounds easier just to not use them at all.

 

[Memorabilia]

The OP's story is just another in a long line of Sony anti-consumer bullshit and, combined with their piss poor online security, is exactly why I no longer sub to PS+ nor allow my credit card #s on their system. It's actually mind-boggling how shitty their customer service is in this regard. Why in the hell should a consumer just have to suck it up and absorb an unintentional, double/redundant digital purchase under threat of account banning? Absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

 

[Rellik]

Half true

Steam will basically but a hold on your account until you lift the chargeback

They won't instantly ban your account like PSN does, but this practice is common across many other companies in some form or another.

PSN is a mess, don't have your CC on it because of the major consequences of something like this.

The mixup with Steam is because they used to ban for it years ago. I know because I got banned on Steam for a chargeback mess up with my PayPal. After a brief email exchange with Valve, I was back in my account and I still have that account to this day.

Their system is definitely much better today and it should be how it is on all services.

 

[Weevilone]

After more than 15 days, I didn't have to reach very far TBH. Statements are printed every month but you sure have access, like me, to your online statement updated pretty much every hour.
I'm not saying Sony is right, but they definitely didn't do any worse than any other company would in similar cases. A charge back happened at the end of the day.

Edit: I mean, no matter if it's right or wrong, the 14 days, it's a policy and it's not debatable, it's clearly written a million times in places like: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/.
If you work in customer service you know that there are rules and laws and many times you can't bend or do any exception.

Just because you have access to your statement online doesn't mean it is reasonable to expect everyone to constantly monitor it. You are victim blaming. Clearly Sony has some horrible, customer non-friendly policies, and this is one of them.

You telling me if you realize Sony has errantly charged you a few hundred bucks and you notice this 20 days after, you are cool with it? That's what you are saying.

Of course I'm sure you monitor your credit card account every couple days like a good consumer.